I emailed the did you know gaming people

[psy_commando]

Well, I kinda got a little sick of hearing people rambling about robot legs and amputation. So I decided to discuss with the "Did you know gaming" people. Not sure who I wrote to, but here's how it goes this far :
 
 

Psy_Commando <psycommando@gmail.com> Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 1:46 AM
To: didyouknowgaming@gmail.com
Hi, I really appreciate all the work you put in your videos, and they're entertaining and interesting, contrarily to digging the web to get those info by ourselves.

However, I have a comment to make on your Starfox did you know gaming. I along with a couple of others from Starfox-Online (who are huge starfox nerds) spotted a couple of inaccuracy, mostly on the part about the amputation theory. The biggest one is the claim that the g-diffuser didn't exist before SF64, which is not so. But anyways, here's a few arguments against that theory :

1. If they were amputated to maintain blood in the upper body, why didn't they amputate at the hip, to get the full benefits for amputating their legs ? If it was intentional, they wouldn't have done it halfway.

2.  The G-Diffuser already existed in the first game. Its mentioned in the 1993 official nintendo powers comics, in the promotional art that came with the soundtrack, in many third party game guides in Japan( lots of scans I made myself are available on Starfox-Online ), along with the first party Mission File Printout guide book : [link] (If you want I can send you a zip with all that)

3. In the comics, lots of non-pilot characters wore the same metal boots, along with Andross' ground troops, and Falco wore shoes showing his bare "legs" and not knee high boots, they also mention Falco's socks being smelly.

I don't expect you to change your video though, but I thought you might be interested to know about that.

Also, I'd like to add that there are quite a few other mysteries / interesting topics / little known facts in the starfox universe. Here are a few :
- A little known fact in the comics / snes game continuity Fox had a girlfriend / love interest. Her name is Fara Phoenix.
- The Nintendo Power comics themselves are little known, especially since they were only published in the USA( and Canada I think ).
- There's also the mystery revolving around Fox's dad's appearance after his death in SF64 and the following games. In the SF SNES continuity he was actually still alive but stuck into another dimension, inside a spaceship looking like a space whale. 
- There's also the mention in those comics that Andross used technology from a long extinct advanced civilization to build a device called a telekinetic amplifier, which gives him control over matter. This  fits with the fact that on venom in SF SNES objects are being hurled at fox or are moved to block his path. And also that the big face end boss is actually a bunch of steel plates being moved to look like a face and protecting the telekinetic amplifier behind it.
- There is also a few weird places in the lylat system that are pretty interesting, like the black hole which is actually some sort of portal, out of this dimension(the place with the giant slot machine boss and paper airplanes), and Sector Y which is filled with fish-like lifeforms living in space.
- There's also the two little known characters that were introduced in the mission file printout : Bear Noguchi( approximation of the phonetic of :  Bear Nougucchir ( ベアー・ノウグッãƒãƒ¼ ) ) and Tesla Kobar( approximation of the phonetic of : Desura Koba- ( デスラ ・コãƒãƒ¼ ) )
- There is also the hidden content in the SF2 roms, images mostly. Fara even made an appearance in the game, before being removed.

And there are quite a few more, including Herbert the pig android.
And I'd be happy to provide you with the images, scans and texts related to all this if you ever need it.

Anyways, thanks for the great work you put into those videos, and I hope you'll be able to do something with those info. I can't wait to see what you'll come up with next !

didyouknow gaming <didyouknowgaming@gmail.com> Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 3:32 AM
To: Psy_Commando <psycommando@gmail.com>
1. If they were amputated to maintain blood in the upper body, why didn't they amputate at the hip, to get the full benefits for amputating their legs ? If it was intentional, they wouldn't have done it halfway.
 
-- This has no basis in the argument. If it was inspired by real-world devices, like we implied, the devices that inspired it only put pressure on the legs, not the hips.
 
2.  The G-Diffuser already existed in the first game. Its mentioned in the 1993 official nintendo powers comics, in the promotional art that came with the soundtrack, in many third party game guides in Japan( lots of scans I made myself are available on Starfox-Online ), along with the first party Mission File Printout guide book : [link] (If you want I can send you a zip with all that)
 
-- Though these were mentioned before StarFox 64, they weren't mentioned in the games. This could imply they were an after thought. This usually happens in comics and books. Thigns are added to expand the lore.
 
3. In the comics, lots of non-pilot characters wore the same metal boots, along with Andross' ground troops, and Falco wore shoes showing his bare "legs" and not knee high boots, they also mention Falco's socks being smelly. 
 
-- Unless these comics were made by the original development team, they have no relevance, and don't reflect the original intentions of the developers.
 
--------
 
Those are just my thoughts on the subject. I've honestly not heard any convincing evidence against the theory. Obviously the evidence for it isn't conclusive, and the only way to prove it would be to get confirmation from the original development team. I'm genuinely interested in what you guys could bring up relating to the theory. Feel free to share my thoughts with other users.
 
Thank you for all that. I'll definitely be coming back to StarFox at some point. I actually found something interesting about the possible StarFox reference in Majora's Mask that I covered in a video. The Bremen mask is technically a representation of a Rooster, and since Falco is a Pheasant this strengthens the connection even more, as both Chickens and Pheasants share the genetic sub-family 'Phasianinae'. 
 


And you're welcome, I'm glad to help. It almost makes all that time spent gathering info on Starfox worthwhile !
By the way, sorry if some of the text is oddly structured, I wrote it over several days, since I'm a little short on time these days ! Oh, and I have a public dropbox folder where I gather interesting stuff about starfox 1- 2 snes. It might interest you, since what's in that folder comes from all over the net, and its all gathered in one place. I'll give you the public link, so if you ever feel like it you'll have the it: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tdzl2dw40k9vddj/2NdRr7C2CY/StarfoxStuff
And if you ever need the sources for some of the incomplete scans, I think I could track them down fairly easily.
 
 
 
 
 
 

So there you go, he's interested in hearing our arguments against the theory. So you're welcome to add something to this thread, so I can transmit it to him.

 

EDIT: Received another email.

 

[Patch93]

It's a good thing you archived all that stuff psy. I was searching aimlessly for that autograph Itoh made.

[Drasiana]

I don't think the majority of our problem is with the theory, necessarily, though it is stupid. The problem is that they were presenting a fan-theory as solid fact amongst others that were, indeed, facts, and now you have a bunch of little newblings running around going LOL GUISE DID U NO THAT ROBOT LEGS??? TOTES CANON A GUY ON YOUTUBE SAID IT!!!

[Hidi]

I think it would also be good for them to source their facts at the end of their videos. Otherwise yes, they did put a lot of work into the video, and it's otherwise pretty good.

[Snys93]

The robot leg thing is weird.

[psy_commando]

It's a good thing you archived all that stuff psy. I was searching aimlessly for that autograph Itoh made.

I got even a little more laying around

[DZComposer]

I like how he shot down the G-Diffuser evidence as not being from in-game, yet continued to defend the amputation theory despite not only being mentioned in-game, but not even in any materials I have seen.

 

Now, I do think there is something out there that said that. I have heard this theory enough times prior to DYKG's piece about it, but it was likely one source, and likely Japanese. If G-Diffusers can be mentioned repeatedly in documentation and not count, than the amputation theory must also be discarded..

[psy_commando]

I like how he shot down the G-Diffuser evidence as not being from in-game, yet continued to defend the amputation theory despite not only being mentioned in-game, but not even in any materials I have seen.

 

Now, I do think there is something out there that said that. I have heard this theory enough times prior to DYKG's piece about it, but it was likely one source, and likely Japanese. If G-Diffusers can be mentioned repeatedly in documentation and not count, than the amputation theory must also be discarded..

Yeah, that's true its a little contradictory on his part.

And what do you mean by "there is something out there that said that". Do you mean something that disprove the theory ?

[DZComposer]

Well, it's mostly an assumption on my part. I came to it because I have heard of this well before Did You Know Gaming. Because of this, I doubt someone just pulled it out of their ass. Though the original reasoning I had heard for it earlier was they had digitgrade feet and they replaced them with plantgrade prosthetics so they could operate the controls. Not that that reasoning is any better.

 

As far as WHAT the source is, I don't know. I haven't seen it myself. I figure there is only one source because if it were repeatedly published I would have run across it by now.

[psy_commando]

It might be worth digging for infos on the origin of that theory. I'll see if I can dig up anything. Too bad the Internet Archive's crawlers don't seem to be able to correctly archive forum threads.

 

Also, I received an answer to my last email, I updated the first post with it.

[Thomas Draco]

Did You Know Gaming is full of inaccuracies anyhow

 

They're just as trustworthy with their factchecking as Cracked is

[psy_commando]

Well, while some facts were not facts, or not all that noteworthy, I think he / they're showing some good faith or at least a will to improve with his / their email response.

[psy_commando]

Well, I finally got some time to look around, thanks to having less schoolwork.
 
I found some other people discussing the matter. I saw a lot of mention that this theory came from 4chan, and we all know 4chan is a very reliable source Moreover, it seems in early 2012 there was a big resurgence of the rumor.
 
http://darkthehybrid.deviantart.com/journal/Starfox-Has-No-Legs-309287747

~twvlsman Jun 20, 2012
First I want to start off with don’t take what I say the wrong way, it’s long too. This is speculation and fan rumor, nothing more. I’ve yet to find a creditable source from Nintendo (Magazines, game manuals, interviews, ect...) that says anything on this topic, if you find one that’d be awesome. The thing to remember is this has never been cannon to the games and is just a fan explanation for the funny looking puppets on the cover of the original Starfox as far as I’ve found. The following covers some response why I dislike the amputation thing as it makes no sense for me.

‘The legs were amputated to keep blood in the brain when experiencing high g-forces. g-forces and acceleration are both the same thing, g-force’s are a measurement of acceleration. They are the same for both atmospheric and space flight. I say that just for the sake of preventing some confusion.

First off the G-diffuser is designed to negate or reduce the acceleration forces (g-forces) of the craft inside and out of the cockpit. You would never be able to do the maneuvers in game without something to help the ‘physics defying tricks’ that take place. The G-diffuser is a form of fictional science that gets around that. This in game science completely abolishes the need to prevent blood from going anywhere in the body. You wouldn’t feel any, or possibly a small amount, of force on your body from doing loop after loop. Another thing, have you ever seen a seatbelt in the cockpit of an Arwing? (look up the Starfox Assault E3 trailer) Legs or no legs you would be dead without a five point harness if there were any g-forces in the cockpit.

Second, we already have a way to combat the blood loss to the brain; a G-suit is designed for that purpose. They have bladders that inflate when needed around the leg and abdomen areas to reduce the blood pooling around those regions. And it’s not just the legs that the blood goes to; it’s the entire lower body. In high-g aircraft they can also have other methods that help the pilot resist g-forces that the pilots in Starfox don’t have, partial pressure breathing. I would also like to point out that at high g-forces the body becomes very heavy, in a sense. Your movement is restricted and everything you do is harder. An arm normally 10 lbs when at 7g’s becomes 70 lbs, I would think having artificial arms would be more useful for operating the controls.

Looking at the picture it’s clear that the prosthetics only have one range of motion, which to me makes very little sense. Real feet have far superior motion and control then those that the Starfox team apparently have in that picture. The thought that spaceships = better tech = better prosthetics is directly contradicted by the very bad prosthetics seen in the picture, far worse than the real deal. Other game art shows the feet moving and twisting in ways not possible with that setup. And no I don’t believe they would upgrade from an inferior design to better in any timeframe when the real deal works just as good or better. If it’s common to amputate pilots feet there should be inferior models.

You can also see that the amputation only goes half way up the leg to the knee. Well it looks like that anyway, would be stupid to have the pant legs tucked in/hanging where it will get caught in the joints and impair movement. And why not go all the way if your goal is to stop blood from going the legs? Why stop when you get to the bigger part of the legs, your thighs? There is one piece of Nintendo work that can serve as proof that the amputation can only go partway, and not even as high as the picture. The Star Fox 64 manga that was made by Nintendo Europe (something like that) shows on page 11 Fox’s leg from the knee up as real.

I also saw someone point to the Starfox 64 and how the legs look pointed and artificial. This, I believe, can be explained as a lack of experience using the hardware of the “new†console. Starfox 64 came out about a year after the N64, maybe one and a half. The developers didn’t have the experience to make it look as good as the N64 was capable of making. A really good show of this is with the first and second Halo’s, both on the same console but worlds apart in graphics. The N64 is an old consol in its own right and the models do have a limit anyway. This is more of a personal opinion that seems the more likely choice.

One last major thing I want to bring up again is that this is not an official explanation. I’ve looked and only found people citing the mag cover and other articles that have similar arguments/cites. If you can provide an official source (game manuals, Nintendo articles, interviews, ect...) that would put this whole thing to rest.

This is just as much speculation and rumor as the amputation idea but it has more of a believable aspect to it. The puppets used for the box art had hinged feet so they could stand. The magazine artist used the puppets (and feet) as a reference.

I have a very hard time believing the game makers would get so caught up in that fine of a detail for the feet and not carry any of that over to any other part of the game story nor make any move to mention it.

What this looks to me is a long chain of people saying ‘fact’ with someone else coming and using the first as ‘fact’ with another someone saying ‘fact’ from the second and so on. Not one has had “Nintendo said this...†anywhere.
I will give, that this could be a possibility for some people to believe but not me. Far too many things that make no sense that my science mind can’t get over. This all only applied to the SNES anyway as nothing prior to Starfox 64 is cannon.

You can believe what you like; I’m not going to get mad just because you don’t see things my way. I’m not the type. I will get mad however, if you can’t take a few minutes to ask “why†and “how†and please don’t just accept things if they can’t provide the source for it.

Anyway that wall of text is my thoughts on the matter and why I won’t believe this as ever being true. If you want to believe the pilots of the Starfox universe have metal leg I’m cool with that, we can at least agree to disagree.
 





 

 

>~CAHunter Jun 20, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
[link] (Posting cover where all this originated. Even the cover says nothing about Fox being a amputee)
This is the only thing I can add to all you said.
Arwings do not have landing gears, even in starfox snes, the g-diffuser was said to keep the planes hovering 1 meter above the ground (stated in the mission file printout strategy guide for starfox).

A salute to Starfox fans!

(^ Odd, that last bit about the MFP was straight from my translations.. Unless he can read Japanese.. I think I know that guy..)
 

**EDIT: the argument below was sadly proven untrue. Tibia bones contains very few of the cells that creates red blood cells..
Next up a pretty good point, about leg amputation seriously diminishing your ability to make new red blood cells from the bone marrow in your legs:
 
http://www.therwp.com/forums/showthread.php?amp;t=48616&page=2

>
Old 29th May 2012, 01:26 AM
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2008

With that logic, everything below the heart should be amputated as well.

And yep, blood is made on the marrow. Amputating four big ass bones would do nothing but harm and B cells are also formed on the bone marrow.

Damn, I miss when urban legends were at least decent. Makes me miss pikablu and shit.

 

 

Also, about the comments about the theory that I've read around the web. What's with all the scorn for Starfox SNES ? People don't even question how that theory is silly and faulty or just not really fitting the spirit of the first game, they just immediately turn to canonicity, just as if saying "Oh well, that old game and all that's related to it sucked and isn't even worth attention anymore, because the author says so.".. Its somewhat like turning the knife in the wounds. First bring up some embarrassing theory on a game that was unfortunately forgotten long ago, spread it around and make the game sound even more forgettable, alien, or perverted, so that people will not only forget about the game, but also actually want to..
I'm taking offense to that personally, because its just unfair on so many levels..

 

Maybe I'm thinking too much..

 

Anyways, I'll keep looking, but I'd appreciate if anyone else would give it a shot too, I tend to miss important details.

[psy_commando]

First I forgot to post the email response I received from Nintendo:

 

Hello,

Thank you for writing. I can certainly understand your concerns. I'm afraid we don't have any information regarding the rumor you have heard. Fans are often curious about the background stories and details behind their favorite games and characters. Some answers might be revealed in future games; however, many details about our games remain mysteries, left to the active imaginations of our players.

As you know, there are countless websites on the Internet that post Nintendo news and information. Many of these independent websites take the
liberty of posting news based on rumors, speculation, or assumptions--and that is just fine. We understand that Nintendo fans are eager for as much new information as possible!

However, as a publicly traded company in Japan, Nintendo has a responsibility to our retailers, suppliers, employees, and stockholders to provide accurate, official information on our products. Therefore, what we present on our official website will always be confirmed and reliable. Although officially confirmed information can still change from time to time (like product release dates), Nintendo's own websites will be the most current official source for all Nintendo news and information.

Sincerely,

 

Pretty unhelpful, as usual !

 

Anyways, I wrote a long text with everything I found that disprove this theory this far. Its structured like crap, but its convincing.(At least I hope it is).

I'm going to email them that. So, if anybody has any critiques or things to add, feel free to share it. I'll probably wait a week or so..

 

===================================================================================
The characters on the SNES have their legs amputated
===================================================================================
This rumor is extremely annoying to debate, since people are so passionate about it that it results in lots of fallacious conclusions.. Though, the very premise on which this rumor is based makes little sense.

//Logical Problems
An amputation is painful, complicated and risky procedure. You definitely wouldn't want to have to do it if you don't need to.

If you think about this, logic calls for looking at the good sides, and the bad sides of a choice, before taking a decision. Yet if you read up a little on amputation, the first thing you learn is that those comes with a crapload of problems, and that's not even taking into account the lack of mobility. And all this, for a marginal tolerance increase to g-force, that can be most likely matched with a modern g-suit, and a leaned seat ?

Now that's a problem. Though, you could still say that maybe they didn't know or wanted to ignore that. Fair enough, lets look at another problem.

Nintendo, back then had a very strong kid friendly policy. So much that intense violence and gore or implying violence and gore, or sexual themes was either banned, or censored by Nintendo. The best example of this, is Mortal Kombat on the SNES, Nintendo forced Midway to replace blood with “sweat†and to remove most of the gore. It had the undesired effect that the game sold much more copies on Sega's console, which still had the gore and blood. Amputation for better combat performance is a grim, gory, and distressing topic. Its obviously not kid friendly, and would project the image that self-mutilation is cool, and will make you a better pilot, at least in the more easily influenced minds. And that's not even far-fetched, there was a big debate going on back then about violent video games, and its still going on today for some reasons.. And the idea of amputating the main protagonists of their game would have undoubtedly attracted unwanted attention from the medias.

I'm not done yet.

Usually, people refer to Starfox SNES as being darker than the others. Which is one of the reasons why this theory seems to be accepted by some. But is it really that much darker ?

I've looked at the plot, and the game, then compared it to SF64. My conclusions are, that SF SNES is not darker at all, in fact SF64 has quite a few dark themes, such as the betrayal and murder of Fox's father, the fact that Corneria in that continuity is a planet shaped by wars( its explained in either the game mannual or the official guide that Corneria is littered with natural caves that were used by the population as shelter during the wars ), the taunting and psychological harassment dealt to Fox by the Starwolf team which makes fun of Fox's father's death, Andross turning himself into some horribly mutated version of himself.
In contrast, on the SNES, Fox's father isn't dead, Corneria is a peaceful agricultural world, and the comics are pretty light-hearted as well, even if they have their serious moments. And of course Andross didn't turn himself into some monster. And instead relied on machines.

It would seem the feeling of darkness comes from the way the story is delivered. Such as in SF64, it is very hard to take anything seriously. The reasons are most likely the voice acting, the overall light-hearted music, the constant chatter from your teammates that creates some kind of reassuring presence, and that the plot tends to leave you skeptical. This contributes a lot to the more light-hearted feel.

Now on the SNES. The music is serious and military like as well as very emotional and expressive. Your teammates are pretty quiet and pretty much only talk to give Fox hints or ask for his help, they rarely comment on the current situation and never address to anybody else than Fox. This creates a feeling of being on your own, a little like most of the HL2 campaign. Not to mention that after being shot down your teammates do not come back in action( though one of Slippy's line is “pick me up on your way back!â€, which imply that he ejected. The fact that they don't come back can then be explained by the fact that, they don't have any spare Arwings ).

So, why add an extremely dark concept like amputation to augment combat effectiveness to SF SNES ? That's almost darker than what the bad guys is trying to do .. I mean a government making an army of surgically enhanced soldiers(lol combines), against taking over the said government's regime..

Its also worth noting that, the Starfox team is called "a group of adventurers with outstanding combat skills" in the SNES manual. They're not even in the Cornerian army ! And calling them adventurers leads us to believe they're not just going to fly spaceships !

Another recurrent argument for this theory is that the g-diffuser didn't exist in SF SNES. Which is false. It wasn't mentioned in the game itself or in the game manual, but in the comics, the soundtrack fact sheet, the official Japanese MFP guidebook. Moreover, as to the possibility that they added the G-Diffuser later on what does it changes ? I mean, if the canon has changed since then, that's not what the creator thinks anymore. And if the g-diffuser exist, amputation is totally useless or even an unwarranted handicap..

The Arwing pilots don't even wear any special gear. If they were really at the extreme of amputating themselves to resist a few more gees, wouldn't they be a little more concerned about their equipment, or wearing additional equipment to tolerate gees ? Maybe even complement that classy jacket with a g-suit, since the g-suit compresses not only the leg, but the thighs, and the region between the hips and the base of the ribcage.

In addition, here are a few interesting comments on the question of cutting your legs off for better g tolerance :
-“The USAF has very strict constraints against disabilities in its pilots, and I've never heard of a pilot who would do that to themselves. While it is true that a pilot without legs is better able to control blood flow, there are numerous other considerations including independence of movement outside the aircraft and what would happen if the aircraft was ever shot/forced down. In short, no pilot would be crazy enough to do that and the Air Force would never allow it.â€(
Chris Troscianecki, Cadet AROTC training to become a pilo..., http://www.quora.com/Have-any-pilots-intentionally-amputated-lower-limbs-to-resist-G-forces-better)
-â€I'm not sure "better G-force tolerance" makes up for all the downsides to going through life without legs. But that's just me; perhaps some pilots are just that dedicated.â€( Josh Hinman, in the comments, http://www.quora.com/Have-any-pilots-intentionally-amputated-lower-limbs-to-resist-G-forces-better )

And seriously, if you were making a video game with characters described as †adventurers with outstanding combat abilitiesâ€, would you really condemn them to the cockpit of an aircraft, or cripple them ? What's next ? Adventures in a wheelchair ?
Besides, Miyamoto said in the past that Starfox was never meant to be only about flying. “Cuthbert also had a few interesting things to say about Shigeru Miyamoto, who he says was the driving force in taking Fox McCloud out of his Arwing and onto the ground. "I think that's all Miyamoto. Whenever I speak to Miyamoto about Star Fox, he says it's not meant to be just a flying, sci-fi shooting game," Cuthbert said. "It's meant to be anything we want to think up. But the core fans don't want that, but Miyamoto doesn't really care about that. He wants to make what he wants to make, so he just goes ahead and gets it done." †http://www.1up.com/news/starfox-creator-uninterested-making-title

//The Real World Problem With The Concept
Moreover, if we look at complications from amputation, space has detrimental effects on the human body. One of those is that white T-Cells don't reproduce correctly in space, and existing T-Cells are less effective at fighting infections.. And amputation increase risks of infections..

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2002/23jan_cellwars/

Then there are the complications..

Phantom pain is pretty common, and can happen after the removal of pretty much any body parts. Basically, when you get amputated, you still feel the limb that got removed, as if it was still there. Well some people not only feel their removed limb, but they also feel pain in them.. It's a pretty complex problem, that involves changes in the entire nervous system. Here's a really extensive explanation : http://bja.oxfordjournals.org/content/87/1/107.long
Its very hard to treat..

//Where Did That Idea Came From ?
There are quite a lot of possible origin for this, some even not Starfox related.

For one, there are a couple of very exceptional stories from WW2 about ace pilots loosing their legs, getting some prostheses and returning to active service, and performing beyond expectations:

The first one, is Alexey Maresyev a soviet WW2 ace pilot, that crashed in German territory and got back on his own into Soviet territory, while wounded. His return trip severely deteriorated the wounds on his legs so much that they both needed amputation. He got prostheses and got back into active service after a while. He was credited for quite a few kills, and earned decorations for his exploits.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexey_Maresyev

Now this one is quite interesting. Sir Douglas Bader. His story is really inspiring. He was your average reckless young RAF pilot, recklessness that, as expected, got him to lose his legs. Supposedly that on a dare, he attempted some low-flying aerobatics with his Bristol Bulldog. But he crashed when the tip of his left wing touched the ground. He survived but both of his leg were amputated, one above and the other below the knee. He is said to have wrote in his logbook this after the incident : “Crashed slow-rolling near ground. Bad showâ€( Douglas Bader ). This happened in 1931. In 1939, after trying to get back into active service for years, he finally got what he wanted. He did really good during training, and climbed very fast through ranks because of his skills. Those were his first steps on his way to ace pilot.

Now enough history, what interest us, is that in these articles it is written the following :
“It is also thought that the loss of his legs gave Bader an advantage over other pilots in combat. The high G-force produced in combat manoeuvres caused many pilots to black out as blood drained away from their brain to other parts of the body. Because he had no legs, Bader could sustain greater G-force without losing consciousness.â€( The advantages of artificial limbs, *1 )

*1 - http://douglasbaderfoundation.co.uk/about-the-dbf/sir-douglas-bader/
*2 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Bader

In addition, Cracked did a misinformed article(as usual) about legless pilots back in 2010:
http://www.cracked.com/article_18624_5-people-who-turned-awful-disabilities-into-superpowers.html

 

[DZComposer]

I was in a debate on Reddit over this, and I found something that I think blows this out of the water. It's the Itoh comic. There is one panel where Slippy is shown barefoot.

http://arwinglanding.net/gallery/displayimage.php?album=1&pos=17

[psy_commando]

Woah, I can't believe I missed that ! That's a great find !

I'll add it to the email. Thanks for mentioning it.

 

But, he'll probably just say that it doesn't prove that the legs weren't amputated before ..

 

I guess if he won't change his mind, I'll just do my own fact video XD

Not sure I'll have the time for that though.. I might just make a list instead.

[Patch93]

 Besides, Miyamoto said in the past that Starfox was never meant to be only about flying. “Cuthbert

also had a few interesting things to say about Shigeru Miyamoto, who he

says was the driving force in taking Fox McCloud out of his Arwing and

onto the ground. "I think that's all Miyamoto. Whenever I speak to

Miyamoto about Star Fox, he says it's not meant to be just a flying,

sci-fi shooting game," Cuthbert said. "It's meant to be anything we want

to think up. But the core fans don't want that, but Miyamoto doesn't

really care about that. He wants to make what he wants to make, so he

just goes ahead and gets it done." â€

 

 

 

In regards to the statement Cuthbert made, the problem with on-foot in the Star Fox series, at least IMO, is not the fact that it exists, but because of the fact that it hasn't been executed very well. Adventures' combat system indeed played out well, but it didn't really fit the series' nature. Assault's on-foot aimed to be more accurate and at first it seemed like it was trying to accomplish that in the beta stages of development, but it ended up being worse than Adventures (again IMO) due to sluggish controls and annoying objectives, as well as the fact that it toke up way too much of the game. I don't mind the idea of implementing on-foot combat into the series, but they need to execute it properly, and not do it like Namco did with Assault.

 

I know this is off-topic, but I felt like pointing this out.

[DZComposer]

I stopped the Reddit argument because it was like arguing with a brick wall. Despite a barefoot Slippy the guy showed me an enlarged pic of the boxart and offered it as confirmed proof that the legs were amputated. :facepalm:

[Drasiana]

Reddit

 

Well there's your problem.

[Patch93]

I stopped the Reddit argument because it was like arguing with a brick

wall. Despite a barefoot Slippy the guy showed me an enlarged pic of the

boxart and offered it as confirmed proof that the legs were amputated.

 

[psy_commando]

 

 

In regards to the statement Cuthbert made, the problem with on-foot in the Star Fox series, at least IMO, is not the fact that it exists, but because of the fact that it hasn't been executed very well. Adventures' combat system indeed played out well, but it didn't really fit the series' nature. Assault's on-foot aimed to be more accurate and at first it seemed like it was trying to accomplish that in the beta stages of development, but it ended up being worse than Adventures (again IMO) due to sluggish controls and annoying objectives, as well as the fact that it toke up way too much of the game. I don't mind the idea of implementing on-foot combat into the series, but they need to execute it properly, and not do it like Namco did with Assault.

 

I know this is off-topic, but I felt like pointing this out.

That's exactly what I think ! They could probably go away with any kind of gameplay if it was well executed.

I'm not sure why people all went "No on foot anymore, that's the source of all the problems with Starfox !". I guess  its for the same reason that the amputation theory got spread around..

 

I stopped the Reddit argument because it was like arguing with a brick wall. Despite a barefoot Slippy the guy showed me an enlarged pic of the boxart and offered it as confirmed proof that the legs were amputated.

I really don't get why they're so attached to that theory.. I mean, yeah, maybe it helps with G-Tolerance, but it got so many downsides that any sane person wouldn't even consider it, even for a work of fiction. Its like saying, removing all your teeth helps avoiding tooth decay..

 

 

But besides that, anybody else has something to add ? Or even writing advice, to make this thing less of a mess..

[Icy]

My take on this whole debate is this: Some of the creators and/or people who worked on Star Fox 1, 2, or 64, might have thought about the whole theory of amputation for flying and all, and maybe hinted at it in some of the games. I doubt it was something the creators just made as a fact for themselves, though. The idea might have been tossed around, because you know, their boots do look kind of like artificial legs. That's where people get this idea from, isn't it?

 

There's no confirmation from any source whatsoever that tells us what any of the developers/designers ever thought about it, and combined with the barefoot Slippy, it's a pretty safe bet that no one ever intended for their legs to be amputated.

[psy_commando]

Hello, I just wanted to let you guys know that I posted the letter a while ago now, and never got a reply !

Here's the final letter I sent (the formatting is all messed up though):

 

 


Psy_Commando

<psycommando@gmail.com>
 

Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 12:49 AM
 

To:
didyouknow gaming <didyouknowgaming@gmail.com>

 



Hello again. Sorry for not sending a message sooner,
I've been pretty busy ! And about the dropbox, no problems, I hope you
can find something useful in it.

So after doing a pretty
thorough research, I wrote a pretty badly written article( though it may
sound like a rant in some places.. ) about the problems, and the
possible origin of the theory.  So here's the article(the formatting
might be screwed up..):

===================================================================================
The characters on the SNES have their legs amputated
===================================================================================
This rumour is extremely annoying to debate, since people are so passionate about it that it results in lots of fallacious conclusions.. 
Though, the very premise on which this rumor is based makes little sense. 

//Logical Problems
An amputation is painful, complicated and risky procedure. You definitely wouldn't want to have to do it if you don't need to. 

If you think about this, logic calls for looking at the good sides, and the bad sides of a choice, before taking a decision. 
Yet if you read up a little on amputation, the first thing you learn is that those comes with a crapload of problems, and that's 

not even taking into account the lack of mobility. And you're going through all this ordeal, for a marginal tolerance increase to 
g-force, that can be most likely matched with a modern g-suit, and a leaned seat ? 

Now that's a problem. I mean, yeah, maybe it helps with g-tolerance, but it got so many downsides that any sane person wouldn't 
even consider it, even for a work of fiction. Its like saying, removing all your teeth helps avoiding tooth decay.. 

Though you could still say that maybe they didn't know about the downsides or wanted to ignore them. Fair enough, lets look at 
another problem.

Nintendo, back then had a very strong kid friendly policy. So much that intense violence and gore or implying violence and gore, 
or sexual themes was either banned, or censored by Nintendo. The best example of this, is Mortal Kombat on the SNES, Nintendo forced 

Midway to replace blood with “sweat†and to remove most of the gore. It had the undesired effect that the game sold much more copies 
on Sega's console, which still had the gore and blood. Amputation for better combat performance is a grim, gory, and distressing topic. 

Its obviously not kid friendly, and would project the image that self-mutilation is cool, and will make you a better pilot, at least 
in the more easily influenced minds. And that's not even far-fetched, there was a big debate going on back then about violent video 

games, and its still going on today for some reasons.. And the idea of amputating the main protagonists of their game would have 
undoubtedly attracted unwanted attention from the medias.

I'm not done yet.

Usually, people refer to Starfox SNES as being darker than the others. Which is one of the reasons why this theory seems to be 
accepted by some. But is it really that much darker ? 

I've looked at the plot, and the game, then compared it to SF64. My conclusions are, that SF SNES is not darker at all, 
in fact SF64 has quite a few dark themes, such as the betrayal and murder of Fox's father, the fact that Corneria in that 

continuity is a planet shaped by wars( its explained in either the game mannual or the official guide that Corneria is littered 
with natural caves that were used by the population as shelter during the wars ), the taunting and psychological harassment dealt 

to Fox by the Starwolf team which makes fun of Fox's father's death, Andross turning himself into some horribly  mutated version of himself.
In contrast, on the SNES, Fox's father isn't dead, Corneria is a peaceful agricultural world, and the comics are pretty light-hearted 
as well, even if they have their serious moments, and of course Andross didn't turn himself into some monster relying on machines instead. 

It would seem the feeling of darkness comes from the way the story is delivered. Such as in SF64, it is very hard to take 
anything seriously. The reasons are most likely the voice acting, the overall light-hearted music, the constant chatter from 

your teammates that creates some kind of reassuring presence, and that the plot tends to leave you sceptical. This contributes 
a lot to the more light-hearted feel. 

Now on the SNES. The music is serious and military like as well as very emotional and expressive. Your teammates are pretty 
quiet and pretty much only talk to give Fox hints or ask for his help, they rarely comment on the current situation and never 

address to anybody else than Fox. This creates a feeling of being on your own, a little like most of the HL2 campaign. Not to 
mention that after being shot down your teammates do not come back in action( though one of Slippy's line is “pick me up on 

your way back!â€, which imply that he ejected. The fact that they don't come back can then be explained by the fact that, they 
don't have any spare Arwings ). 

So, why add an extremely dark concept like amputation to augment combat effectiveness to SF SNES ? That's almost darker 
than what the bad guys is trying to do .. I mean a government making an army of surgically enhanced soldiers(lol combines), 

against taking over the said government's regime..

Its also worth noting that, the Starfox team is called a group of adventurers with outstanding combat skills in the SNES manual. 
They're not even in the Cornerian army ! And calling them adventurers leads us to believe they're not just going to fly spaceships ! 

Another recurrent argument for this theory is that the g-diffuser didn't exist in SF SNES. Which is false. It wasn't mentioned in 
the game itself or in the game manual, but in the comics, the soundtrack fact sheet, the official Japanese MFP guidebook. Moreover, 

as to the possibility that they added the G-Diffuser later on what does it changes ? I mean, if the canon is changed then that's not 
what the creator thinks anymore. And amputation is totally useless, and even an unwarranted handicap if the g-diffuser exist..

The Arwing pilots don't even wear any special gear. If they were really at the extreme of amputating themselves to resist a few more 
gees, wouldn't they be a little more concerned about their equipment, or wearing additional equipment to tolerate gees ? Maybe even 

complement that classy jacket with a g-suit, since the g-suit compresses not only the leg, but the thighs, and the region between the 
hips and the base of the ribcage.   

In addition, here are a few interesting comments on the question of cutting your legs off for better g tolerance : 

-“The USAF has very strict constraints against disabilities in its pilots, and I've never heard of a pilot who would do that to themselves. 
While it is true that a pilot without legs is better able to control blood flow, there are numerous other considerations including independence 

of movement outside the aircraft and what would happen if the aircraft was ever shot/forced down. In short, no pilot would be crazy enough to do 
that and the Air Force would never allow it.â€(   
Chris Troscianecki, Cadet AROTC training to become a pilo..., http://www.quora.com/Have-any-pilots-intentionally-amputated-lower-limbs-to-resist-G-forces-better)

-â€I'm not sure "better G-force tolerance" makes up for all the downsides to going through life without legs. 
But that's just me; perhaps some pilots are just that dedicated.â€( Josh Hinman, in the comments, http://www.quora.com/Have-any-pilots-intentionally-amputated-lower-limbs-to-resist-G-forces-better )

And seriously, if you were making a video game with characters described as †adventurers with outstanding combat abilitiesâ€, would you 
really condemn them to the cockpit of an aircraft, or cripple them ? What's next ? Adventures in a wheelchair ?
Besides, Miyamoto said in the past that Starfox was never meant to be only about flying. “Cuthbert also had a few interesting things 
to say about Shigeru Miyamoto, who he says was the driving force in taking Fox McCloud out of his Arwing and onto the ground. "I think 

that's all Miyamoto. Whenever I speak to Miyamoto about Star Fox, he says it's not meant to be just a flying, sci-fi shooting game," Cuthbert 
said. "It's meant to be anything we want to think up. But the core fans don't want that, but Miyamoto doesn't really care about that. He 

wants to make what he wants to make, so he just goes ahead and gets it done." †
http://www.1up.com/news/starfox-creator-uninterested-making-title

And to conclude this section, DZComposer from Starfox-Online showed me something I completely missed when reading the comics again. 
There is actually a panel where Slippy is barefoot(look in the bottom left corner of the image):

//The Real World Problem With The Concept
Moreover, if we look at complications from amputation, space has detrimental effects on the human body. One of those is that white
T-Cells don't reproduce correctly in space, and existing T-Cells are less effective at fighting infections.. And amputation increase

risks of infections..
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2002/23jan_cellwars/

Then there are the complications..

Phantom pain is pretty common, and can happen after the removal of pretty much any body parts. Basically, when you get amputated,
you still feel the limb that got removed, as if it was still there. Well some people not only feel their removed limb, but they also

feel pain in them.. It's a pretty complex problem, that involves changes in the entire nervous system.
Here's a really extensive explanation : http://bja.oxfordjournals.org/content/87/1/107.long
Its very hard to treat..

//Where Did That Idea Came From ?
There are quite a lot of possible origin for this, some even not Starfox related.

For one, there are a couple of very exceptional stories from WW2 about ace pilots loosing their legs, getting some prosthesis
and returning to active service, and performing beyond expectations:

The first one, is Alexey Maresyev a soviet WW2 ace pilot, that crashed in German territory and got back on his own into Soviet
territory, while wounded. His return trip severely deteriorated the wounds on his legs so much that they both needed amputation.

He got prosthesis and got back into active service after a while. He was credited for quite a few kills, and earned decorations for his exploits.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexey_Maresyev

Now this one is quite interesting. Douglas Bader. His story is really inspiring. He was your average reckless young RAF pilot,
recklessness that, as expected, got him to lose his legs. Supposedly that on a dare, he attempted some low-flying aerobatics

with his Bristol Bulldog. But he crashed when the tip of his left wing touched the ground. He survived but both of his leg were
amputated, one above and the other below the knee. He is said to have wrote in his logbook this after the incident :

“Crashed slow-rolling near ground. Bad showâ€( Douglas Bader ).

This happened in 1931. In 1939, after trying to get back into active service for years, he finally got what he wanted.
He did really good during training, and climbed very fast through ranks because of his skills.

Those were his first steps on his way to ace pilot.

Now enough history, what interest us, is that in these articles it is written the following :
“It is also thought that the loss of his legs gave Bader an advantage over other pilots in combat.
The high G-force produced in combat manoeuvres caused many pilots to black out as blood drained away from their brain to other

parts of the body. Because he had no legs, Bader could sustain greater G-force without losing consciousness.â€( The advantages of artificial limbs, *1 )

*1 - http://douglasbaderfoundation.co.uk/about-the-dbf/sir-douglas-bader/
*2 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Bader

In addition, Cracked did a misinformed article(as usual) about legless pilots back in 2010:
http://www.cracked.com/article_18624_5-people-who-turned-awful-disabilities-into-superpowers.html


Well, that's pretty much it, tell me what you think. Though, I'm
aware its pretty much just a bunch of notes pieced together, and not a
real article. XD

 

So yeah, I'm not sure if its worth my time to try to contact him again. Especially if he's just not answering because he's too stubborn about this whole thing !