Drasiana Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Disclaimer: This topic isn't actually about abortion. It's about being able to talk about abortion. Yay, loopholes! Anyways, the one rule of "don't discuss this" in the Pub here is abortion. Now, I understand it's a hot topic, but for different people other things are hot topics, like those who have ragequit over "fursecution" or any number of trivial Star Fox-related peeves. Personally, I find it a little strange to consider abortion a hotter topic than any other hot topic, even though it's heavily tied into other topics that can very well be discussed here, and is actually an important factor in many of them (rape, sexism, and birth control immediately come to mind). Obviously preventing an abortion rageoff has not prevented rageoffs of other kinds, and I can't imagine a topic about it somehow being so much more volatile than others in here that it breaks the internet or something. So what I'm saying, basically, is that I think we should be allowed to talk about abortion, for the reason that it is a pressing issue. What do you think? Should people be barred from discussing certain issues, despite feeling strongly about them or being close to the issue, simply because it's "controversial"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticQuery Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Should people be barred from discussing certain issues, despite feeling strongly about them or being close to the issue, simply because it's "controversial"? I don't actually think the problem with the topic of abortion is that it is controversial; most of the topics discussed in the Pub can be considered controversial as well. I think it has more to do with the high probability of tensions running high and things erupting into an all-out screaming match with this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thu'um Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 huh, just my point of view. No. while it ist debatable it really comes down to the very moral perspectives of how you define life, rights to privacy, and the greater good. But what we do risk is a very HOT topic in which alot of opinions will clash. while i see us capable of arguing such a topic calmly. Why ? we run the risk of starting an unstable topic to debate over something as abortion. i just see no reason to debate the topic on this forum which could lead to a problem. of any one wants to debate it i'm sure they you could easily find more then a couple of website or even entire forums dedicated to the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drasiana Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 Except, when you look at the majority of other topics that have taken place here, a lot of them HAVE turned to argument and offense. It's the nature of having opinions. And in the other instances in which things have gotten out of hand, moderators have locked the topics. That is what moderators tend to be there for. Honestly, I look at SFO and see people who are more offended by a blue space fox than people who would have stopped to consider abortion seriously enough to have a firm stance on the matter. while it ist debatable it really comes down to the very moral perspectives of how you define life, rights to privacy, and the greater good. But we can discuss every single one of these things outside the realm of abortion. It is only once "the A-word" is mentioned that it suddenly becomes more controversial. We can talk about the definition of life, we can talk about SOPA, and we can discuss the moral discrepancy in bullfighting. We can talk about rape and bestiality and gay marriage and presidencies, all of which are in fact "hot topics", but for some reason abortion is the only one that is taboo. And honestly "I see no reason to discuss that on this forum" can apply to every single item in this subforum; I don't get why abortion is the exception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticQuery Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Except, when you look at the majority of other topics that have taken place here, a lot of them HAVE turned to argument and offense. It's the nature of having opinions. And in the other instances in which things have gotten out of hand, moderators have locked the topics. That is what moderators tend to be there for. Honestly, I look at SFO and see people who are more offended by a blue space fox than people who would have stopped to consider abortion seriously enough to have a firm stance on the matter. Admittedly you do have a point, though I'm fairly certain that abortion was exempt from the Pub for a specific reason. Have one of the admins drop in on this topic; they most likely have more to say on the matter than I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thu'um Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Except, when you look at the majority of other topics that have taken place here, a lot of them HAVE turned to argument and offense. It's the nature of having opinions. And in the other instances in which things have gotten out of hand, moderators have locked the topics. That is what moderators tend to be there for. Honestly, I look at SFO and see people who are more offended by a blue space fox than people who would have stopped to consider abortion seriously enough to have a firm stance on the matter. But we can discuss every single one of these things outside the realm of abortion. It is only once "the A-word" is mentioned that it suddenly becomes more controversial. We can talk about the definition of life, we can talk about SOPA, and we can discuss the moral discrepancy in bullfighting. We can talk about rape and bestiality and gay marriage and presidencies, all of which are in fact "hot topics", but for some reason abortion is the only one that is taboo. Except, when you look at the majority of other topics that have taken place here, a lot of them HAVE turned to argument and offense. It's the nature of having opinions. And in the other instances in which things have gotten out of hand, moderators have locked the topics. That is what moderators tend to be there for. Honestly, I look at SFO and see people who are more offended by a blue space fox than people who would have stopped to consider abortion seriously enough to have a firm stance on the matter. But we can discuss every single one of these things outside the realm of abortion. It is only once "the A-word" is mentioned that it suddenly becomes more controversial. We can talk about the definition of life, we can talk about SOPA, and we can discuss the moral discrepancy in bullfighting. We can talk about rape and bestiality and gay marriage and presidencies, all of which are in fact "hot topics", but for some reason abortion is the only one that is taboo. that is Debatable i actually see abortion as "hotter" then almost all topics that we are allowed to discuss. And quite frankly i am not interested in my friends opinions of SFO on abortion. Not because they aren't revelent but because its not a topic that is often regarded as something that friends should talk about unless on absolute agreement to discuss. The topic has split family, friends, and political parties. I do view my relation ship with many sfo members important and i know my views could severely offend and in all honesty scare some people. and in weighing the risks i just see this topic with a gain of zero while carrying several risks. there are several members that i don't want judging me because of my opinions and believe me i have had conflicts with members here before just due to opinions. Besides if you are so Inquisitive as to like to know certain member's views pm's will do more then suffice. I believe you can even have many participants in a pm now and could carry on a topic well enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkyway64 Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Honestly, I look at SFO and see people who are more offended by a blue space fox than people who would have stopped to consider abortion seriously enough to have a firm stance on the matter. Lol, this suits me. The main reason is because fantards piss me off while I couldn't give less a shit about abortion. Do whatever you like, bro-ettes. (I suppose that technically makes me pro choice. =V) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K9Beast Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 i agree with AJC3000FOX. abortion really should not be discussed because it is a very fragile topic and it could seperate people on SFO. I would rather it not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drasiana Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 Yes, because abortion is the only possible thing that could ever get one person mad at another (especially in a forum where your grammar caused a WAR). Yes, political parties are divided on the abortion issues alone. And yes, a single person posting about abortion on SFO would force you to participate in the topic. ... How does any of this make sense to you? If you don't want to discuss abortion, fine, but other users shouldn't have to pussyfoot around you because you have such little self control that you cannot feasibly abstain from clicking on a topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjakob42 Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I don't want to get people angry, so I'll keep it as brief as possible. And I'll say it now: pro-choice right here. This is a fan site for a video game franchise, so I'm honestly surprised about all the controversial topics that are being discussed on said fan site. I'm not calling fans stupid or anything, and while I have strong opinions on certain issues - like abortion - I just came here to talk Star Fox(this is why I usually stay out of the Counter Point). In that perspective, why bother bringing up abortion in the first place? But because there is a page for political/social issues threads on the site (the Counter Point), I think we should be allowed to discuss the topic. Key word: discuss, not put up disgusting pictures of aborted fetuses to express your opinion for you. Call me crazy, but I think the reason the topic is so taboo on the site is because of the fear of explicit imagery being posted. If this is the case, all you really need to do is heavily enforce the image rules, and I think the SFO community would be more than happy to abide by said rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 It's the same as with religion based topics, some people would get extremely butt-hurt or extremely smart-ass about the subject. While I do agree that people should refrain themselves from posting in topics in where they know they will have a biased opinion/get extremely upset by other's views, there's always the possibility that things will get out-hand. I have nothing against expanding the library of topics here, I'll talk to DZ about it to see if it's a personal choice, or something we are subject to because of higher forces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballisticwaffles Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 yes /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drasiana Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 It's the same as with religion based topics, some people would get extremely butt-hurt or extremely smart-ass about the subject. While I do agree that people should refrain themselves from posting in topics in where they know they will have a biased opinion/get extremely upset by other's views, there's always the possibility that things will get out-hand. This is the possibility with everything posted on this site, though, even the Star Fox stuff. It's not like you guys have never locked a topic or banned someone for non-abortion-related reasons :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaos_Leader Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Personally, I'm all for talking about this subject and exploring others' opinions. However, I understand the risks and aversion to making such a topic that is basically an open flame near a leaky gas tank. Mostly I believe the mods are trying to keep the counterpoint forum from turning into the Jerry Springer show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I can't really do anything about it if at the end the subject poses a risk to DZ's site/user agreement/anything related to the rules I'm "entitled" to follow. He's the person deciding whether or not stuff is allowed. As I believe that this wouldn't be a "nuke" to the site, I'm merely asking for patience. I doubt DZ will say no, but he will probably want us to be extra careful, or I don't know xD, he will sooner or later have to go to the staff board and answer my inquiry anyways . We have had a bad experience dealing with more "mature" topics before, though, and well, most of the troublesome people that gave us issues are gone too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Monroe Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 While every topic can in theory go nuclear. Some topics are just a matter of how long the timer takes to tick. And it would ultimately accomplish nothing and just cause a lot of buttmad. Yeah freedom to discuss whatever we want and how we feel about whatever we want is nice and dandy and blah blah blah but really. SFO isn't mature enough to handle this shit. SFO isn't mature enough to handle half the shit potential of this shit. Better to just keep it away from the small children entirely. Furthermore I can estimate that 99% of the arguments presented are basically "pro-lifers are sexist assholes" and "pro-choicers are baby murderers". Really, its like, how do you step around that? Rhetorical question, I know it is completely and totally possible to avoid that shitstorm in -theory- but yeah. That's what it'll boil down to. I GUARANTEE IT. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thu'um Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 While every topic can in theory go nuclear. Some topics are just a matter of how long the timer takes to tick. And it would ultimately accomplish nothing and just cause a lot of buttmad. Yeah freedom to discuss whatever we want and how we feel about whatever we want is nice and dandy and blah blah blah but really. SFO isn't mature enough to handle this shit. SFO isn't mature enough to handle half the shit potential of this shit. Better to just keep it away from the small children entirely. Furthermore I can estimate that 99% of the arguments presented are basically "pro-lifers are sexist assholes" and "pro-choicers are baby murderers". Really, its like, how do you step around that? Rhetorical question, I know it is completely and totally possible to avoid that shitstorm in -theory- but yeah. That's what it'll boil down to. I GUARANTEE IT. Amen. Forum Jeasus has come. REPENT . BTW the fact i was able to start a war with my grammer is only evidence of why this topic shouldn't exist if tha was enough to start a war, i ask you can we really handle abortion? Now rob makes the best point WE ACOMPLISH NOTHING BUT BUTT MAD STUPIDETY in creating such a topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluxy Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Welp, Rob beat me to it, so I'll just agree in a smaller fashion. In no way is this site mature enough to handle such a 'delicate' topic like Abortion. Now then, I know you easily could, I could, and a few others. That is not on question of course, and I do agree having more controversial topics would be nice to see, But sadly most our members wouldn't be able to handle it, as easily proven in the past, and it'd just end up in drama or something even more unwanted to the forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xortberg Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I find Robert's lack of faith in us a bit insulting, actually. I vote that we should be able to discuss it. I never took a very strong stance on it, considering I'm not a woman and this don't give a shit if I can legally get an abortion. Doesn't mean much to me, you know? But it is a topic that could get a lot of fun debate, and I would enjoy a thread where we could. I think we can handle it. Amen. Forum Jeasus has come. REPENT . >mfw you don't even spell the name of a central figure in your religion correctly. BTW the fact i was able to start a war with my grammer is only evidence of why this topic shouldn't exist if tha was enough to start a war, i ask you can we really handle abortion? Now rob makes the best point WE ACOMPLISH NOTHING BUT BUTT MAD STUPIDETY in creating such a topic. People got pissed over your grammar because it was impossible to understand your words and you were a douchebag and refused to try and change. Not because we're immature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thu'um Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I find Robert's lack of faith in us a bit insulting, actually. I vote that we should be able to discuss it. I never took a very strong stance on it, considering I'm not a woman and this don't give a shit if I can legally get an abortion. Doesn't mean much to me, you know? But it is a topic that could get a lot of fun debate, and I would enjoy a thread where we could. I think we can handle it. >mfw you don't even spell the name of a central figure in your religion correctly. People got pissed over your grammar because it was impossible to understand your words and you were a douchebag and refused to try and change. Not because we're immature. i think my grammer as proved amazingly i try hard for you guys to spell corectly it took 10 minutes for me to post that first paragraph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xortberg Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 And I never said it still sucks. You've worked on it now, and you're quite readable. Thus, people don't get pissed at you. Cause and effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drasiana Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 The problem is not that MAN, I REALLY, REALLY WANT TO TALK ABOUT ABORTION (because frankly, I really don't). My concern comes from the fact that this is the only topic we are not allowed to discuss, and the "sensitive issue" issue is complete bullshit because, while abortion is a sensitive issue, for some reason it is the only one we are not allowed to talk about. We are allowed to talk about suicide. We are allowed to talk about rape. We are allowed to talk about pedophilia, genocide, and racism. So why the HELL is abortion singled out amidst all the other big terrible things we are completely free to discuss? It's not a matter of YAY, ABORTION DISCUSSION FOR ALL; it's a matter of making up your minds on what the hell the Counter-Point is actually about, and where you actually make the distinction between "Taboo Terrible Thing" and "Regular Terrible Thing". Personally, I'm all for talking about this subject and exploring others' opinions. However, I understand the risks and aversion to making such a topic that is basically an open flame near a leaky gas tank. Mostly I believe the mods are trying to keep the counterpoint forum from turning into the Jerry Springer show. At least it isn't the Maury Povich show D: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluxy Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Girls, This isn't about AJC. This is about Dras' discussion on the rules of being allowed to debate on Abortion or not. I find Robert's lack of faith in us a bit insulting, actually. I vote that we should be able to discuss it. I never took a very strong stance on it, considering I'm not a woman and this don't give a shit if I can legally get an abortion. Doesn't mean much to me, you know? But it is a topic that could get a lot of fun debate, and I would enjoy a thread where we could. I think we can handle it. In the past many members have proven that more fragile subjects like it that they couldn't handle it, causing much un-needed drama. Now, we don't have Saber or Arwing Commander, but there are still many young and immature members here. If anything should be allowed, giving the topic -a chance- to show the people getting in it are mature enough. The only thing that'd make it bad, is people coming in and ruining the idea of debate and turning it into a belief war. And you bring up a good point, Dras. The only thing I could think as to why that particular subject is singled out, is because of past experiences with that topic, or that the Admins simply have their reason. More than likely the first, which then makes sense as to why they won't allow it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drasiana Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 Unless there was a previous Counter-Point that's now missing/archived, no, it hasn't been discussed before. Though, by the logic of "people have ragebonered over this before, so let's ban its mention forevermore", we should no longer be allowed to mention Krystal because of all of the arguments people have had because of her. Or you know, just furries in general...half the locked topics I keep finding are furry-related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluxy Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Well the idea that this site is about the SF franchise, which also happens to be in inhabited by Furries half the time makes it more lenient than the topics you bring up, of course. But there have been many issues with those topics, yes, and due to this site being about SF, they've made rules to make it all good, or locked topics with reasons as to why they did, causing people to learn what is okay, and what isn't. It's not the best defense, sure, but it's the best I got personally; especially with the proof of my reasoning coming only from things that happened before and a little bit after you came over here. Other than that, really, the only people who can tell you why is the Admins, as what we're allowed to discuss is up to DZ, really. If he simply'd like that specific topic not talked about, then that's the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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