Star Pony: It's Only a Matter of Time?

[Vy'drach]

Don't double post, mate. Use edit.

[King of the Shrooms]

No dont!!

No don't do it Fluxy!!

DOUBLE POST ALL THE WAY!!

and both are short one liners as well... be a bit more careful.

[DZComposer]

I never tried to slime you, so why are you still trying to slime me? I already said that I know my position isn't the most rational one, yet you continue to try to rub that in my face and accuse me of being like Sabre and that I feel superior to you.

I admitted being illogical, what the fuck else do you want from me?

[Vy'drach]

Want... sleep... but don't want.... miss anything.

[Xortberg]

I never tried to slime you, so why are you still trying to slime me?

My original reference to Sabre was mostly meant to be a jab at him, not you. You overreacted and then ignored the rest of my post, so the second comparison was me getting a bit pissed that you did so and comparing you two because that is something he commonly did, and a large part of the reason I hated him. I'm not trying to make you look bad, I'm pissed that you're acting Sabre-like. You're better than that. Stop trying to make it look like the only thing I have here is insulting you and making you look bad, and I'm just pissed because in doing so you're ignoring the other valid points I did make.

I already said that I know my position isn't the most rational one, yet you continue to try to rub that in my face and accuse me of being like Sabre and that I feel superior to you.

I pointed out how your word choice implied a position of superiority, with words meant to slime bronies like calling us a plague of locusts and stating things that implied you were claiming some sort of ownership over the Star Fox fandom. I didn't say "YOU'RE ACTING LIKE A GOD, BLARGHARGH!"

All you're doing now is misinterpreting my point, much like I apparently did when I first read your post and assumed you were implying superiority if your previous assertions are true, and I have no reason to disbelieve they aren't.

I admitted being illogical, what the fuck else do you want from me?

Ideally? I want you to not be so annoyed by ponies, but that's not something that can just happen. So realistically, what I want is, in the future, for you to man the fuck up and just ignore the pony topics you don't like instead of coming in and complaining - in a fucking pony topic you clicked on in the first place - that you can't avoid ponies. Hypocrisy does not become you.

[DZComposer]

You know, I have better things to do than debate word semantics over ponies, of all things.

You apparently misinterpreted what my words meant, and I apparently misunderstood yours. Let's just leave it at that.

[Xortberg]

You have time to come into a topic you claim you can't avoid, type up a big long ragewall, argue up to this point, and now you don't have time to debate?

And the only words I misinterpreted were flavor text, not the meat of your argument. Same for you and your misinterpretation. Our only difference is I instead focused on the actual argument, until you started ignoring my points in favor of getting butthurt at an offhand remark.

But yeah, we can end it here. Wouldn't want to make any more posts in this topic that you just can't avoid looking at, you know. Please, though, in the future? Exercise a little restraint and just don't click on the pony topic, and we can totally avoid silly little altercations like this where you get all worked up over silly little remarks.

[Drasiana]

Holy shit can we all grow the fuck up? We're whining about the sanctity of a game about cartoon animals against a show about cartoon animals. Can we just get along in the fact that we're all here talking about fucking cartoon animals and realize that if fandoms are anything, it's the holy-goddamned-antithesis of serious-fucking-business?

Seriously. The back button. It's a thing. When it exists, and topic titles function as a handy little warning label, there is no excuse and if ANYONE is personally offended because someone else likes something that they don't like, I heartily suggest a little trip back to Preschool Etiquette 101.

edit: I MEAN SERIOUSLY

You look at the forums and it's like starfox starfox starfox starfox starfox starfox starfox ponies meets starfox? starfox starfox starfox

AND WE LOSE ALL THE SHITS

seriously guys take better care of your shits

[unoservix]

at this juncture i am going to point out that if a Star Fox Pony game gets made it would actually be honest to God activity for not only the pony fandom but this, the seething pustule of Krystal porn, furry bullshit, and figurative crotchety old geezers bitching about how much the games suck that we are too generous in calling the "Star Fox fandom," so if you really want to be all purist and demand that only a certain kind of activity is permissible in a corpse, well, have fun waiting bro

but either way these things rarely if ever get off the ground (witness the fate of Equestria Online, for instance) so this is most probably a moot point anyways

[Faisul]

Some of the people in this thread sure are mad about ponies

Actually, I do feel sympathy with DZ on quite a few points - And while I won't call the Starfox fans a fandom per se (it is a twitching cadaver of one if it ever was a real fandom) I do get slight pangs of annoyance coursing through my spine each time I see the ridiculous crossovers that sometimes crop up. But it's not because the crossovers involve ponies, or star fox, or warhammer, or any of my boyhood obsessions - it's because the people behind them are often fucking annoying twats who rely on the hugbox echo-chamber their fandoms provide in lieu of actually developing a personality independent of their desire to shove their meat up fluttershy's butterfly. This is reflected in their writing, the pictures they draw - Fluttershy is a rampant serial killer, Scootaloo is raped and learns to love it, suddenly the ponies are all Nazis, or even better, the whole of equestria is reduced to a grimdark firepit where the author muses about equine estrous cycles between paragraphs detailing pogroms and further insanity. It's creepy, it's wrong, and the more of it there is out there, the more bronies feel it is normal, and they become more vocal about it.

This is what pushes me beyond the bounds of rational dislike and into frothing, seething rants like this one, because for every one of these things made, a thousand fucked up bronies, furries, starfoxies - whatever - applauds, for once again they've had their detestable ideas reinforced. Ideas of what is appropriate to just throw out there, leaving it to younger minds to stumble across during a quick google search, eventually to join the fandom's numbers, what to think is normal to think and feel, including all the twisted desires for foals and cubs and whatever, and what is fine to do to one another or think about the opposite sex or whatever. If you want to read more rambling bullshit about why I and others thinks this is a problem, read below, or just skip it. It's not my own work, but I think it speaks directly to the root of the issue.

ON THE NATURE OF FANDOM

By Pick

Many people initially connect to fandom because it's a pre-packaged community where newcomers are guaranteed to having something in common, however banal, with the old guard. There's a pervasive attitude that it's wrong or shameful to move on, which breeds an air of stability and comfort. Sounds rather nice, don't you think? What becomes clear--all too late--is that it's a hateful, hateful hugbox.

Though a fandom is sometimes no more than a group of like-minded internet friends, the fandom environment as a whole is notorious for insanity, conflict, and perversion. Threads about who-is-fucking-who can reach hundreds of pages and contain more bile than ancient Greek medicine. Rants about character's respective power levels and who would win hypothetical wars become wars. BATMAN, YOU GUYS. (No, Superman!) Grown men discuss the practical considerations of sex with magic talking horses. Elaborate torture porn is written for [snipped for your own sanity]. Creepiness become its own ends as people expend energy to create pornography for series just because none yet exists. There are sites explicitly celebrating this phenomenon. There are sites that collect links to sites celebrating this phenomenon. It never ends.

Essentially, fandom helps create environments where people who would otherwise eventually develop themselves as, well, people, and not slimy, weird recluses who only venture out to worship at the altar of pony porn. Fandom stunts growth, if it is allowed to. Worse, fandom helps reinforce habits, ideas and perceptions of the world that are objectively wrong. -IF- you allow it to do that to you. You can be sane and part of a fandom, just as you can be insane and not a part of a fandom. Again, I'm not spitting and hissing at the things the fandoms worship, the crossovers the fandoms come together to make occasionally or most of the people in a fandom - but that rotting, festering pit that can be found in any fandom.

The exact same fucking thing happened to Star Fox - nothing is safe from fandom. If a pony suddenly showed up as a character in a hypothetical future Star Fox game, I wouldn't care less - if said game was a fan production made by some unholy alliance of Starfox and Brony deviants, and included exactly the kind of shit I mentioned above, I'd be inclined to avoid the thing altogether, directing my ire to the root of the problem. It's not the end product that pisses me off, it's the community behind it, and how its seedy underbelly shelters and nurtures people who would otherwise grow out of whatever phase this community keeps them in, through patting their arse every time they agree with the fucked up things these people think are cool, and railing against detractors, and against Lauren Faust and Hasbro for daring to include little girls as the target demographic of the show. "Are we not entitled to our grimdark clopfics being included in the show, the degenerate Brony asks? No, says Hasbro, it belongs to the little girls who do not understand the mind-shattering complexity of our colourful pony show!" Fuck off with that.

It's not a new thing at all, but the internet has allowed more and larger of these groups to effectively become second homes to people who have no business playing a part in shaping other people's personalities - much less being out of a padded cell, in some cases.

I've said it before, but I have nothing against bronies, just like I don't have anything against other people or any fandom - if they're pleasant people, and don't whine about not being allowed to hump a horse in public, and that if you venture doubts about the moral integrity of such an act, they won't call you close-minded and a nazi. I'm wary about bronies because I've seen and heard about so much shit they've done, written about, and what their opinions are - but I'm similarly wary about furries, homestuck fans, and yes, Starfox fans. If you're sane, wear as many pony costumes you want, and shove as much pony shit into Starfox as you damn well like, I won't give you any shit. I might even think it's charming. If you're not sane, and you insist on being a creep, I will not be nice to you, and you can if it offends you.

[Fluxy]

Holy shit can we all grow the fuck up? We're whining about the sanctity of a game about cartoon animals against a show about cartoon animals. Can we just get along in the fact that we're all here talking about fucking cartoon animals and realize that if fandoms are anything, it's the holy-goddamned-antithesis of serious-fucking-business?

Seriously. The back button. It's a thing. When it exists, and topic titles function as a handy little warning label, there is no excuse and if ANYONE is personally offended because someone else likes something that they don't like, I heartily suggest a little trip back to Preschool Etiquette 101.

edit: I MEAN SERIOUSLY

You look at the forums and it's like starfox starfox starfox starfox starfox starfox starfox ponies meets starfox? starfox starfox starfox

AND WE LOSE ALL THE SHITS

seriously guys take better care of your shits

Psssh, please. Growing up on the internet? We won't have any of that here. We're part of forums. Our shits aren't meant to be put together. None of ours are. Not in the least...

Ponies are srs business bro.

[Ala1n-J]

I really think having this thread in the "General Starfox" repertory is misleading : we've been talking about a pony fangame with a Starfox-like gameplay, not a game with both Starfox and MLP characters thrown together with no reasons (what I call a crossover). This should be in the pony fangames topic (as Vydrach said), not in the starfox games thread.

Every point you've made, Faisul, is valid. And I can understand where DZ is going. We all agree that the fanboy retards, from any famdom, are annoying. But was all the rage/rant that happened here worth it? No, I don't think so. We've been talking about ideas, nothing concrete was made, and it snapped into a big dispute for no good reason. Can't we settle this like grown-ups (just like Dras suggested and you Faisul did)?

Now, we interested about that game should take Faisul's analysis of fandoms in consideration, it must remain a fun thing, not overwhelming our love of the Starfox franchise. For those not interested or not liking the idea at all, ignore it. Simple as that. And for all of us, please, let's not piss at each other about that again, ok? I understand that some people don't like the idea of a Starfox-like pony game, but it shouldn't be worth a flame war. Nothing annoys me more than rage wars over cartoons, games or any non-serious business. Including ponies and Starfox.

[sroberson]

I'm probably way off the topic considering the total rage-fest I glanced over earlier and has me confused about what the origin of this topic was....but I do wonder how one would go about making an anthropomorphic rendering of a pony if they were to try and put a horse in StarFox...I mean they have other animals, why not?

(No rage, please. Just a fun observation that may be off topic)

[Ala1n-J]

Don't worry, it's not off-topic at all. Well, if I understood well, the main idea was to make a game with the ponies, in their universe, with a starfox-like gameplay. The heroes (the ponies) would fly by themselves (no ships) battling enemies from their world. Now how unicorns and ground ponies will fly should be determined, but basically it's all about rendering the ponies and other creatures in their own universe, the main thing taken from starfox would be the gameplay and its mechanics.

You have a valid point saying that a horse can fit the Starfox universe, but the point here is not to include MLP in Starfox, but to play with ponies a-la-starfox, if you get what I mean.

And yeah, rage-fests are confusing.

[Faisul]

but I do wonder how one would go about making an anthropomorphic rendering of a pony if they were to try and put a horse in StarFox...I mean they have other animals, why not?

They did, I think it was mentioned in this very topic, a pink pegasus guy. There's a 3D render of him in the style of Command and everything. I also think someone mentioned it was a developer joke/someone's submitted OC that they made a picture of.

WELP, FOUND IT:

It's on the first page, too!

Yuna being picked on for his feminine qualities strikes me as a perfectly reasonable thing, too.

EDIT: Command's art style was janky as all hell hahaha

[Ala1n-J]

Ha, completely forgot about that one! And yet I was the one who posted that picture here!... It was part of a Stafox Oc contest on IGN. I think it was the winning piece actually.

EDIT :

Yuna being picked on for his feminine qualities strikes me as a perfectly reasonable thing, too.

EDIT: Command's art style was janky as all hell hahaha

I second all of this.

[sroberson]

I actually expected a lot worse of a anthro horse to tell the truth. I am not sure if I am a fan of the direction that Command's animation went (not the animation in that game itself, but the direction it led). I mean, Fox went a bit of a different direction as you can tell from SSBB after Command....I think I am a fan of pre-Command animation.

I can't help but feel like the hypothetical introduction of an effeminate pony in StarFox is some way of accepting liberal tendencies or something, not meaning to cause offense or anything I promise....the political-correctness side of me is showing a bit.

[Milkyway64]

I sympathize with DZ too. I'm somewhat of a brony myself, I even had the signature that DZ pointed out, but goddamn if bronies aren't extremely invasive. They -are- pretty much everywhere and inescapably so, and I can see that getting annoying no matter how damn good something is. (see also: Skyrim, which was for about a month the -only thing- anyone talked about and refused to shut up over, along with it's quite bad memes)

It's not really about coming in the thread and reading willingly, it's just knowing that it's here and there too, judging by a topic title preceeded with a related avatar that could grind some shits very badly.

I also forgot something.

One of the most annoying things I have noticed about the brony fandom personally, on two different forums, is how much they like relating -everything- to the show or fandom, religiously. If there's some common problem or situation discussed, there's about a 20% chance that someone will come in saying "You know, this is like x and x in FiM where this happened." or "It doesn't matter. I like Rainbow Dash for X reason that relates to OP's logic." or something similar. Then there's video threads, music threads, and other such places that has a handful of people lurking about only to post pony content, be it a poop or a cover of one of the musical numbers.

Sure there's "no good reason" to be annoyed, but fact of the matter is it still IS annoying to some people, and while it's easy to tell them to shut up and use the back button that doesn't really solve the problem, because then that means they either heavily restrict the threads they can go to and even then it's still going to be put in their face one way or another.

[Faisul]

I can't help but feel like the hypothetical introduction of an effeminate pony in StarFox is some way of accepting liberal tendencies or something, not meaning to cause offense or anything I promise....the political-correctness side of me is showing a bit.

You might have a point, but including a pink pegasus with the name of Yuna might not be the right direction to go. Usually I tend to like characters that have personalities completely divorced from their sexual orientation (I.E. whether they're gay or straight doesn't figure into their characterization at all). I feel weird for pulling an example from a Mass Effect game (whooaahahohahoooah blue titties) but the third has a male character that mentions his husband being off fighting god knows where and he's worried about him. No one bats an eyelid that he's married to a man, the peculiarity isn't dwelt on at all, like it's the most natural thing in the world. I think that's great, because which way you swing sexually should have no bearing on what kind of person you are anyway.

If Yuna went into a Star Fox game idiots would probably get into a huff because an obvious, stereotypically gay character was included, and those championing LGBT rights would probably also get miffed because Yuna seems to conform to the 'gay pride lunatic' stereotype that many of them don't want to be associated with. This is all inference, but so is the hypothetical situation, so eh.

[unoservix]

fandoms are pretty much all shit generally everywhere you go, and the bronies are no exception, but they make the horrible truth that fandom is an evil devil remora a lot starker because their interests and outputs so directly clash with the source material. then again, the bronies were born on 4chan, so, well, the apple doesn't fall that far from the tree.

another thing i'd like to point out here is that a hypothetical Star Fox pony game might actually create some new Star Fox fans. it's true! right now the Star Fox fandom is actually just a handful of people bitching about how much the games suck, one gnarled tendril of the furry fandom, and a bunch of people jacking off to Krystal. but some hypothetical Star Fox pony game might actually bring new people to Star Fox. case in point: about a month ago i made a gigantic comic parodying one of Voltaire's songs in pony-related terms, and wound up introducing a whole slew of people to Voltaire's music in the process.

of course, if you just hate pony fans fullstop, this won't be of any comfort to you, because like everyone else, any bronies who get into Star Fox as a result of some hypothetical Star Fox pony game will bring their previous interests with them.

*of course, it's all moot anyways because this game will not happen because fan games like this and total conversions and whatnot almost never actually happen.

[Faisul]

right now the Star Fox fandom is actually just a handful of people bitching about how much the games suck, one gnarled tendril of the furry fandom, and a bunch of people jacking off to Krystal.

God damn. Nail's head, meet hammer.

It's really weird, I've been a fan of Starfox for so long that I can barely remember why. New fans, more interest, more material, fan- or official, all of it would be great. But I'm not desperate; if the choice is either introducing a bunch of pedo furries making 'cub' starfox fapfiction to the club, or nothing, I'd heartily choose nothing. Fandoms often choose the former, because turning the freaks away means you're mean, close-minded, and a bully (how dare you). At least to pedos and other assorted creatures who have a feeble grasp on reality in the first place. It's all drops of feces in a slop-bucket at this point for many of these fandoms.

[unoservix]

well

in the interest of fairness i will say that even though fandoms are pretty much terrible things, the kind of people who produce Rugrats torture porn and whatever are always in the minority. of course, they get the most attention, much like how groups like the British National Party and Ron Paul supporters get lots of attention despite their miniscule influence and patent lunacy. and the stuff that that little sector of the fandom produces inevitably attracts attention because holy fucking shit it's Rugrats torture porn what the fuck is wrong with you. which is, thankfully, how most people react. and since that's how most people still react to things like Rugrats torture porn, it shows that there's a limit to fandom's ability to normalize the bizarre and horrifying.

but the people who create that stuff are always in the minority, and the people who consume it and enjoy it and clamor for more are a somewhat larger minority, and the same is true of the bronies. the bronies are just a much larger fandom than the Rugrats fandom (or, for that matter, the Star Fox fandom) and there's a lot of crossover with the furries, so you get lots and lots of creepy horrifying shit. but it's still produced by a minority of people. so, yeah, fandoms are horrible things and the dynamics of fandoms prevent that from ever really changing, but it's only a small slice of people who make it horrible.

so if some hypothetical Star Fox pony game brings new people to the Star Fox fandom (such as it is), then there may well be some creepy horrifying inflation torture scat fetish artist or whatever among them. but, then, it's not like the Star Fox fandom doesn't have creepy people in it already, and either way, everyone else can always choose to marginalize the creepy horrifying ones. which is something the bronies kind of try to do, although with only limited success.

[Drasiana]

And you know, for all the bitching and moaning we're doing about EEEW CREEPY PEDO PONYFUCKER NAZIS or whatever, have we actually had any of those on SFO? The one guy who mildly fit that description ragequit ages ago, and so now it's just a bunch of people who watch ponies sometimes and a bunch of other people who think that is the WORST. POSSIBLE. THING.

Also, a lot of this Brony perception is skewed because a vocal minority got their weird shit into everything, like Uno has said. Most bronies are essentially sane, from a mostly-outside perspective.

But, you know, I could always head on over to a pony forum and jump on them in order to start ranting and raving about how much Star Fox fans suck because all of them like to draw Krystal being gangraped by lizards, just to balance it out.

edit: wait wait hold the fuck up I just saw this

I can't help but feel like the hypothetical introduction of an effeminate pony in StarFox is some way of accepting liberal tendencies or something, not meaning to cause offense or anything I promise....the political-correctness side of me is showing a bit.

What? Because acknowleding non-gender-conforming people are a thing is just EVIL LIBBIE PROPAGANDA? Are you the same kind of guy who endorses the phrase "Friends don't let friends use pink bowling balls?" Hey, bro, I don't think "political correctness" means what you think it means. God forbid gay or effeminate men want to see themselves portrayed as normal and anything but the butt of a joke (which is what the pony character kind of was, but I digress). Having a gay character does not mean EW THEY'RE JUST DOING THAT TO APPEASE THE LIBERALS, it means they decided to use a gay character because gay people exist and have the potential to be characters.

[Faisul]

Ahahahah, of course, the above is true, of course. if I gave the impression that I thought the entirety of these fandoms were awful sewers of detestability, I apologize.

Spoiler for furry pedo derail:

While SFO appears to have been untouched by the worst of the Brony headfucked minority, you have the other side of the coin, where places like Furaffinity were accepting of cub art for the longest time. If I recall correctly, only after a lengthy slog they managed to get cub shit off the boards. That's also a part of the fandom dynamics Uno mentioned - because turning away the freaks means you are one of *them.* You know, the people who disapprove of the shit you like.

So while you may not like the same stuff the pedo does, just 'cause he was a furry some otherwise pleasant furries tried all the harder to keep that stuff on FA to not make the pedofur butthurt. Y'know, despite being horrible, awful, and basically condoning being a pedo creeper as long as your child porn was drawn. It didn't mean most FA members actually supported this shit, but that the pedos were the loudest of the bunch to the point where it took a concerted effort by the sane folks to actually get that stuff out of there.

It wouldn't be a problem at all if the crazies weren't so goddamn vocal about it, making the fandom as a whole look that much sketchier, but it's like Uno said - we can't do anything about it, because of the underlying social contract of the shittier parts of fandom. Safe haven, no matter how awful you are, no matter the cost.

Again, my beef isn't with any bronies, furries or whatever on SFO. I'm very pleased and relieved to see SFO is free of fandom insanity in this regard.

[unoservix]

well, fandom isn't necessarily like that. you can't stop the creepy torture pornographers from being My Little Pony fans, but you can keep them out of the slices of the community that you run, and if you can get enough people to do that, then the effect is that those people aren't part of your fandom, they're part of their own fandom that really gets off on watching Rainbow Dash torture Scootaloo.

case in point: most furries are not like Ebon Lupus and don't go having sex with animals and sneering at human beings for being human beings. but they make a point of embracing the people that do and calling those people one of their own. well, okay, you can do that, but don't be surprised if everyone else thinks that you have sex with animals and hate humans too, because you said the people who do are "one of your own." and let's not hear any sophistry about how "you shouldn't care what other people think," because that's only true to an extent, because we are wired to care very much what other people think about us because we are social creatures which is the whole point of joining a community where your freaky inflation art is welcome.