Freedom of speech as an excuse?

[Xidphel]

I've come accross a conversation on youtube where some guy had poor arguments to back up his claim. His reply?

Alright listen asshole. Like I said, I don't have to explain myself. Look up the First Amendment. FREEDOM OF SPEECH. I can say whatever I want, and you can't make me say or do ANYTHING.

That... That just seem insulting. Not to his intelligence nor the guy he was speaking to, but to the American constitution! I know I'm not American (I'm actually Canadian) but still, using freedom of speech as an excuse to say whatever they want seems like an insult to the people who made the constitution. I'd think they'd put freedom of speech in hopes that the people would at least use it productively.

What do you guys think?

[Wes]

using freedom of speech as an excuse to say whatever they want

That's the point of the First Amendment. Also, I can't think of a good enough reason to take anyone on Youtube seriously. Most people on Youtube are retarded.

[unoservix]

no it isn't.

the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, since that is evidently the measure of "free speech" that we are going to use, says:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion' date=' or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.[/quote']

notice the part where it says "I can say whatever I want, and you can't make me say or do ANYTHING."? no? see, funny thing, turns out it's not there. the only thing it says is that the government can't restrict your freedom of speech. private individuals and groups certainly can, which is why you can get fired for, say, criticizing your boss in public.

of course, the legal acumen of the average Youtube commenter leaves much to be desired in the first place, what with Youtube commenters being drooling idiots and all, so this was kind of a shitty basis for a topic in the first place. of course they're wrong. they're Youtube commenters. ergo, they're idiots.

[Xidphel]

...What about Deviantart? I've seen it happen there too.

[chaos_Leader]

I think also there's the shouting "Fire!" in a crowded theater bit, or something that curbs someone saying things that will needlessly cause panic. It's debatable.

[Drasiana]

...What about Deviantart? I've seen it happen there too.

That's why deviantArt has this super sexy thing called a block tool that the staff will tell you to use if someone is saying something that you don't like.

Yeah, see, it would be extremely stupid to have a rule on "banning people saying things that you don't like" when it's completely within your ability to ignore it and move on with your life. If that is made an impossibility, like say a guy goes from saying "I don't like gay people" on the internet to stalking you and calling you a faggot, then it becomes harassment, which there are rules against.

A Youtube comment saying "waaah my little pony suxx" does not count as harassment, though.

[Xidphel]

A Youtube comment saying "waaah my little pony suxx" does not count as harassment, though.

For one, it's not about harassment. It's about that particular excuse almost on par with the Autism as an excuse to say stupid things.

For two, it was on Fi's theme from Zelda Skyward Sword that I saw the comment and decided to start the topic, nothing to do with MLP. Mentioning any more might veer the topic more off track.

[Drasiana]

That's what we call AN EXAMPLE, Xidphel, considering you gave absolutely no fucking context to the stupid Youtube comment that originally rustled your jimmies.

And my point was that whining about people saying stupid things is also stupid. Unless that person is in a position to do you or others ACTUAL harm (as in, more than just butthurt) then, yeah, they are fully allowed to say whatever the hell they want and if you don't like it, tough shit. I really have no sympathy for your hurt feelings if you go around engaging in Youtube arguments.

And no, comparing someone saying FREE SPEECH LOL to autism is not the same thing. One is a mental disorder and people who actually suffer from it are taken less seriously for it because of idiots using it as an excuse. The constitution is not in any lasting pain because someone is blabbing about free speech.

[unoservix]

this is still kind of a dumb topic because it was basically asking "is this guy on Youtube wrong about the First Amendment?" and the answer is "yes" and if you want further justification it's because a) he's a commenter on Youtube and thus an idiot, and b) i already showed why, and c) flubber.

so, really, i think the point here is that Youtube comments make for lousy Counterpoint topics. because--say it with me, kids--Youtube commenters are idiots.

[Xortberg]

because--say it with me, kids--Youtube commenters are idiots.

So true. Just today I allowed myself to hope I might be able to discuss something intelligently on Youtube, but then the guy told me my opinion was wrong and pretended he knew my own tastes better than I do, and I was reminded just how stupid 99% of Youtubers are. I won't be making that mistake again for a while.

[Xidphel]

...

And this is why I don't hang out here much. Feel free to close the topic.

[unoservix]

protip: next time you find yourself wondering "is this Youtube commenter an idiot?", just say to yourself, "yes"

[Gestalt]

*Ahem* If i may chime in here...the answer to your question is yes...freedom of speech is pretty much the commenters excuse. I find that people will say and do things alot differently at the comfort of their keyboards.... then what they would say and do in a face to face conversation.

The commenter probably knew he was losing, hence...."whelp I might as well go out with a bang, then get the hell outta here" If you let them worry you then they have won.

If a comment truly bothers you then its probably best that you get up and walk away...maybe step outside for a breath of fresh air :

[Drasiana]

I also don't think the ghosts of the founding fathers are sitting around weeping ghost-tears into their ghost-whiskey because some people on the internet are being dumbasses, but whatever.

[myu]

...

And this is why I don't hang out here much. Feel free to close the topic.

Uh, what? If that's your reaction to people discussing this, then you must have been looking for a specific answer - or maybe just someone to agree with you. I'm not even sure what the topic of debate is here. Is it whether or not using freedom of speech in that manner is wrong (or offensive, I guess), or is it whether or not the founding fathers are rolling in their graves because youtube commenters and deviantart goers (both QUALITY places for debates) don't know how the constitution works?

Also, the constitution probably has a lot worse things offending it then some lazy fuck on youtube.

[sroberson]

The First Amendment does not really protect everyone from saying anything. As was mentioned earlier, shouting 'fire!' in a building and causing undue alarm could be prosecuted if I recall correctly listening to the brief lesson in law I got. Also, fighting words are sometimes not protected either, as it could be construed as reasonable cause of alarm to a person and (I think) could be considered battery or terrorism. Perhaps it wasn't the original intention, but hey, I am pretty sure the forefathers of the country intended for the government to not limit the ability to bear arms in any way and look at where we are now.

I don't suppose the person on YouTube made a comment that stepped outside the bounds of their protection - but in general I do believe YouTube commenters to be largely a collection of drooling baboons.

[ballisticwaffles]

Its our freedom of speech to critiscise your critiscism of some guys freedom of speech, just as long as its okay for him to critiscise you and for you to critiscise us.

Just because someone disagrees with you and decideds to derp out of a valid debate by proclaming what essentially amounts to shouting "FIRST" doesnt mean that freedom of speech is abused because SOME ONE IS USING IT.

[sroberson]

Its our freedom of speech to critiscise your critiscism of some guys freedom of speech, just as long as its okay for him to critiscise you and for you to critiscise us.

Just because someone disagrees with you and decideds to derp out of a valid debate by proclaming what essentially amounts to shouting "FIRST" doesnt mean that freedom of speech is abused because SOME ONE IS USING IT.

Agreed. Stupidity and intelligence alike are protected

[Peter]

Well, freedom of speech and being free to say whatever you want, are two different things. The First Amendment says that the government won't make any laws RESTRICTING what you do. That's different than, "I CAN SAY WHATEVER I WANT!" Because, if you say something innapropriate to the people around you, you could possibly get a fine, or other trouble.

[Ala1n-J]

Idiots on the internet will use any excuse for what they say. If it's just that which is disturbing you, you should ignore it. There's no point in trying to figure if the First Amendment of the US constitution is broken or applied in Youtube comments.

[thunderflare]

Freedom of Speech, I see it as you being able to say anything bad about the government or what they are doing, the government listening and changing anything the people do not agree with. Unlike in other countrys were you could get arrested. But if you are talking bad about someone, witch you can, you sould be aware of the consequences. Such as on this site, you can't hate peopleor use bad words or you would get banned. People on youtube are idiots though.

[CrypticQuery]

...

And this is why I don't hang out here much. Feel free to close the topic.

Care to elaborate on this point? As far as I can tell, everyone seems to be discussing the topic and doing quite a decent job of it. Sure, the occasional insult flies around here and there, but this topic is surprisingly stable. [i swear, if I have to eat those words later, ]

___

And on the subject of the First Amendment, it is rather simple. The First Amendment would cover you in normal situations, such as speaking your opinion out in public unless it directly causes harm to others [i.e. shouting FIRE in a crowded office building when there is no fire]. Some rights are surrendered when joining a private institution, and I'm sure the specifics are mentioned somewhere in the deep, dark depths of the End User License Agreement.

___

Alright guys, final warning before a topic-lock. Please, just drop the issue. What's done is done; let's not repeatedly bring it up again. That said, if you've got something to say on the topic at hand, don't hesitate.

Edited March 30, 2012 by crazyfooinc

[sroberson]

And on the subject of the First Amendment, it is rather simple. The First Amendment would cover you in normal situations, such as speaking your opinion out in public unless it directly causes harm to others [i.e. shouting FIRE in a crowded office building when there is no fire]. Some rights are surrendered when joining a private institution, and I'm sure the specifics are mentioned somewhere in the deep, dark depths of the End User License Agreement.

Gee, wouldn't it be something crazy if Google decided to ban ignorant comments on YouTube and established a police force of some kind to enforce it....

In the obvious case of this situation, I am sure that there are no limitations of what can be said on YouTube...I completely forgot about the limitation of freedom of speech in private organizations. I am actually in the middle of a problem much like that in my workspace (the assumed right to privacy and all that)

[Falco'sFinest]

My motto: "Don't take the internet seriously."

It allows me to enjoy it.

[!Corgi]

Freedom of Speech is a bit of a double edged sword, Americans do reserve the right to be unrestricted from the government in terms of things like religion, race/discrimination, sexism & hate speech.

Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and by many state constitutions and state and federal laws. The freedom is not absolute; theSupreme Court of the United States has recognized several categories of speech that are excluded from the freedom of speech, and it has recognized that governments may enact reasonable time, place, or manner restrictions on speech.

Criticism of the government and advocacy of unpopular ideas that people may find distasteful or against public policy, such as racism, sexism, and other hate speech are almost always permitted. There are exceptions to these general protections, including the Miller test for obscenity, child pornography laws, speech that incites imminent lawless action, and regulation of commercial speech such as advertising. Within these limited areas, other limitations on free speech balance rights to free speech and other rights, such as rights for authors and inventors over their works and discoveries (copyright and patent), protection from imminent or potential violence against particular persons (restrictions on fighting words), or the use of untruths to harm others (slander). Distinctions are often made between speech and other acts which may have symbolic significance.

Despite the exceptions, the legal protections of the First Amendment are some of the broadest of any industrialized nation, and remain a critical, and occasionally controversial, component of Americanjurisprudence.

However, a fun fact... Canadians along with around 90% of the rest of the world does not reserve the right for freedom of speech!

With this act in america, Things like the West Borough Baptist Church, the KKK along with other groups/activists are allowed to exercise their protests without infringement of the law (Specifically the West Borough) You will notice if you watch their protests online, They are very careful not to break any laws, Noise complaints ect... They are always within the range of Noise Levels allowed, They do not cause fights and after people come along to crash the protest, They simply walk to a different spot.

Although this sounds like its just a big sign on america's immigration office "Come here and cause shit and have no repercussions", It is a VERY vital thing to News, Social Media and things alike.

Remember SOPA? Yeah, That would have been implemented before the internet even started without Freedom of Speech.

Things like Facebook, Youtube, Twitter and all these other things that have made the world which is so vast and expanding, As if our friends were right by our side.

Unfortunately, You have to take the good with the bad, But when someone is in your face either online or IRL, There is still very strict boundaries people cross all the time that is illegal.

Any kind of threats/ insinuating harm for you or themselves, Any kind of racial hate or discrimination ect... All can be taken up very swiftly with the law.

The next time someone is in your face, Calling you what ever their tiny mind can fathom up to insult you with, Just say "Hey, Fuck you buddy." and hit the wonderful and delicious "BLOCK" button.

If they continue to escalate the situation, That is harassment, and boy, The cops don't like that one bit.