The Green Fox Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Men who "become" women, transgenders, excuse me, transsexuals are not referred to as men, they're referred to as women. Look it up on wikipedia. In fact, a transsexual man was born with female genitalia, and a transsexual woman was born with male. Things are really getting weird now, and gender isn't really judged on what's in-between ur legs anymore. In my experience the roles are reversing, too, men are getting more compassionate and women are becoming more self-sufficient and leader-like. Although I agree that our culture is crazy, the original poster came off to me as very very ignorant. And get this, anyone who has any charecteristics outside a certain male stereotype is a transgender. If you have any qualities that defy the cultural norms, you are transgender. You can be straight and transgender also. For example, I've been mistaken for a girl many times in my life, even with a beard and mustache, due to the fact the first things people notice about me are my hair/naturally feminine looking eyelashes. I'm also not that into sports, etc. I never identified with being female, but as I've grown older, I've come to accept the fact that I'm probly what you would, in today's society, label as genderqueer. I'm straight, but I'm apparently quasi genderqueer. Personally, I think we overgenderize emotions and charecteristics, therefore we end up coming with all these silly labels. If I like cats, that makes me a woman nowadays? Ok, whatever then. Maybe since pizza is a vegetable now, if I smeared pizza sauce on me, I'd be a vegetable too!!!!! WOOT! From Wikipedia: Transgender is the state of one's gender identity. Transgender does not imply any specific kind of sexual orientation. Transgender of course is different than transsexual. Pretty soon....well...we're on the verge of something incredible. not sure what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thu'um Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Was informed of this topic, rushed to save sfo. Ahem... I am very impressed by fluxy's statment " they are woman, they have everything a woman has. Why can't they join?" An EXCELENT POINT. But we will get back to that. Lets look at the racial comparison, the discrimination is kinda like a segrigation. Quite right. But what disapoints the all mighty and every knowaldgable ajc is that you all under estimate the importance of this beauty pagent, a total of a whoopping 25,000 is scholar ships and awards is given away yearly. All of you in school right now KNOW that this is some BIG MONIES up for grab. Only requirment? female and under the age of 27. Back to our segrigation simile, It is an undinable fact( and i am not bashing any ethinicty here) that individuals of african american desent are awarded more scholar ships then whities ( lol ). even when academics favor the white child. however, thats a rant for another time. My simile is what if to obtain a scolar ship i has a surgery and became black. Now able to say that i am a black student i could get these scolar ships. But i feel thats really kinda stealing. Why can i "take" an oppertunity from some one who mabye had this right at birth. Its not the strongest point. In my mind i can't come to a conclussion weather a trasexual should be allowed in such events or what not. On one hand we can hand the 25,000 to the lady who has been her same sex the entire time, or some one who just hopped on the boat. However, Any one who has has any kind of beauty enhancing surgery should be disqualified. That would not only stop unfair advantages on people who have the monies to make them self gorgous, but transexuals who when getting a particular "operation" gift them selves with beauty. That way only natrual beauties get in( transexuals included) but lol good luck on wininng then. Now i don't have any thing against transexuals, what you go and do with your sex is kinda your own buisness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geo Stelar Posted May 3, 2012 Author Share Posted May 3, 2012 Things are really getting weird now, and gender isn't really judged on what's in-between ur legs anymore. In my experience the roles are reversing, too, men are getting more compassionate and women are becoming more self-sufficient and leader-like. Although I agree that our culture is crazy, the original poster came off to me as very very ignorant. I did not imply any point of the like. However, for me, men getting more compassionate and women becoming more self-sufficient and leader-like, doesn't imply any reversal of roles. It's more like improvement of character. Men and women are becoming more like equals, not switching roles. And get this, anyone who has any charecteristics outside a certain male stereotype is a transgender. If you have any qualities that defy the cultural norms, you are transgender. You can be straight and transgender also. For example, I've been mistaken for a girl many times in my life, even with a beard and mustache, due to the fact the first things people notice about me are my hair/naturally feminine looking eyelashes. I'm also not that into sports, etc. I never identified with being female, but as I've grown older, I've come to accept the fact that I'm probly what you would, in today's society, label as genderqueer. I'm straight, but I'm apparently quasi genderqueer. Personally, I think we overgenderize emotions and charecteristics, therefore we end up coming with all these silly labels. If I like cats, that makes me a woman nowadays? Ok, whatever then. Maybe since pizza is a vegetable now, if I smeared pizza sauce on me, I'd be a vegetable too!!!!! WOOT! I did not nor will you find any post in here that meant that point. Heck, I won't even accuse a guy excited about Barbie a gay right on the spot; Men and women like cats. Why would someone identify you as female or gay if a man likes a cat? Tell me that. And you're taking it too literally with the last line. What I'm saying is men can do what women can and vice-versa. Men can do gymnastics, women can play basketball. This, for me does not apply to the Miss World, Universe, and Earth pageants. Those contests are made specifically for women.I do not have anything against transsexuals or transgenders. I agree with R3d Five saying they should have their own competition, instead of letting them join a pageant that has been made specifically for women, only to be let in JUST NOW that a transgender finally stood up and joined Miss Universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fana McCloud Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 I doubt very much that having ovaries is the primary criteria for a female beauty pageant - it's a vag and boobs and anyone who has 'em and is ladylike enough and beautiful enough meets their definition of female, after all I very much doubt that a person born biologically a woman who has had her ovaries or even her uterus removed would be excluded, so why someone who lacks those things but has everything else that defines a woman? I think saying that women can do everything a man can and vice versa BUT such reversal doesn't apply to beauty pageants is rather discriminatory. Look at the term used to describe them - BEAUTY. That's all that matters. It's not a "baby birthing pageant", it's a beauty pageant and ones that are for females require female traits. A mannish looking woman certainly wouldn't make it into one of those even though SHE was born the proper sex, but if she had cosmetic surgery to make her gorgeous suddenly she'd be a contender again. Based on all of this do we really think these things have anything to do with the chromosomes a person is born with, or NOT having surgery to gain female traits? I say no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geo Stelar Posted May 3, 2012 Author Share Posted May 3, 2012 I said it before I'll say it again: I do not have anything against transsexuals or transgenders. I agree with R3d Five saying they should have their own competition, instead of letting them join a pageant that has been made specifically for women, only to be let in JUST NOW that a transgender finally stood up and joined Miss Universe. They could join pageants, of course, but a pageant only for themselves or those which allow them. I do not have anything against transsexuals or transgenders. I agree with R3d Five saying they should have their own competition, instead of letting them join a pageant that has been made specifically for women, only to be let in JUST NOW that a transgender finally stood up and joined Miss Universe. Again, this is all my view on the current discussion. I'm not saying ho's wrong, who's right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fana McCloud Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 I realize that, but I'm backing my position with facts in order to possibly change minds about the situation. I try my utmost to not base my opinions on vague feelings and in this instance do so by looking at what female beauty pageants use as criteria to allow people in, as well as what society considers to be female or female traits. Reproduction has nothing to do with a female beauty pageant and I was merely pointing that out as a basis to say that anyone who looks and acts female should be allowed in one, and to say otherwise I think is a bit discriminatory and based on something inconsequential to the actual goals of a female beauty pageant (one's chromosomes). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arashikage Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 My simile is what if to obtain a scolar ship i has a surgery and became black. Now able to say that i am a black student i could get these scolar ships. But i feel thats really kinda stealing. Why can i "take" an oppertunity from some one who mabye had this right at birth. However, in this simile, you're getting surgery for the sole purpose of gaining these scholarships. In this case, it's not that they want to be women because if they win the pageant, they'll get a lot of money, it's that they want to be women because it's a whole psychological condition.(Or a physical one, take your pick) That being said, if someone gets surgery to change their body just so they can be eligible for scholarships, why are they throwing their money away? Why not just use the $6,000+ you're blowing on plastic surgery FOR school, cut out the middleman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Green Fox Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 easy there, geo stealer. I have nothing against transsexuals either. I'm just concerned about people that don't want to be labeled as such being labeled that way, because I think we do overgenderize certain basic human things in this culture. On the other hand I agree with you that it's better if men and women are more equal, and I can see how you misinterpreted some of what I said. I don't always phrase things how I mean them to sound. Sorry. I forgot to point out that I think roles are artificial to begin with. I think compassion is a basic human feeling that men try to deny in fear of being thought of as female. I think we altogether base too much of our opinions of ourselves on artificial socially constructed ideals. But I think that that has the potential to change. Are things getting better? Yes. Are things getting worse in other ways? Yes. I think in some senses the entire human race is living in a matrix of sorts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geo Stelar Posted May 6, 2012 Author Share Posted May 6, 2012 I'm just concerned about people that don't want to be labeled as such being labeled that way, because I think we do overgenderize certain basic human things in this culture. Well, I share that concern, as well. But just let me clarify that the only 'transgenders' involved here are those men who had undergone both a sex change and beauty enhancement (I dunno the what shorter word to use ) operation to look like beautiful girls. On the other hand I agree with you that it's better if men and women are more equal, and I can see how you misinterpreted some of what I said. I don't always phrase things how I mean them to sound. About this, huh? I did not nor will you find any post in here that meant that point. Heck, I won't even accuse a guy excited about Barbie a gay right on the spot; Men and women like cats. Why would someone identify you as female or gay if a man likes a cat? Tell me that. And you're taking it too literally with the last line. (lol yeah I got that, I guess I overacted a bit, srry 'bout that) I think in some senses the entire human race is living in a matrix of sorts. Life's complicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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