Same sex marriage

[Geo Stelar]

Last April, organizers of the Miss Universe dropped a bombshell that had many supporters and haters.

This month, it was the U.S. President's turn to drop his own bombshell involving gays

Same Sex Marriage

..... which obviously gained a lot of support from gays. But it also gained a lot of negative reactions. Some even say it might hinder his chances of winning a second term next election.

I personally don't quite agree with this. Because this just doesn't seem right. Gay-Man or Lesbian-Woman marriage just seem wrong, even in human standards.

Links:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2012/05/10/152419719/reaction-to-obamas-same-sex-marriage-suppport-from-sublime-to-silly

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18023590

So, what d'you think?

[ballisticwaffles]

>

Really? Whats wrong with two people loving each other? They dont hurt anybody with their decision, nor is it like they immediatly become sexual deviants the second they get hitched.

MY mother is a lesbian, she doesnt harm anyone, in fact she is the nicest person i know.

Its been a several thousand year old practice, so on what authority can you say that it shouldn't happen?

ANd what do you mean, DOESNT SEEM RIGHT? We still club baby seals to death, where the hell is that topic?

[StarFoxfan-FUR_ever]

I personally don't quite agree with this. Because this just doesn't seem right. Gay-Man or Lesbian-Woman marriage just seem wrong, even in human standards.

Woah man....wait up a sec. Let me break this down for you before you say something that will upset lots of people. *checks new comment*

Too late...

Look, I don't agree with gay marriage being legalized, or rather, i should say i dont agree with it being promoted on a grand scale, but mostly that's for religious reasons. I assume your statement there was based on what religion has taught you to be right or wrong. However, in terms of my own views, it does not bother me the slightest if a gay/lesbian couple want to get married. If anything, the purpose of marriage is to strenghten the bonds of love to the point of making it permanent (increasing rates of divorce aside). If anything, allowing gay marriage will enhance this purpose by extending it to the homosexual population.

As things stand, people are not ready to accept gay marriage as a regular occurence. And it certainly does not help with the fact that each state has been given the option to decide for itself whether to allow or not allow gay marriage. IMO this should be decided on a national scale. Think about it, if you were a gay man and wanted to get married, you check with the state legislature and OH look that that, my state hasn't legalized gay marriage....So i guess i have to travel to another state in order to do so?

In terms of whether or not it is right or wrong, that is an opinion. Even though I follow a christian faith...(yes the same one with those people who run around telling people they will burn in hell for whatever they do and must follow the bible or else....etc.) I will not stand back and allow people to be treated unfairly. This limitation of rights (and it IS limitation of rights because there is LAW pertaining to it) is an encroachment on a human being's own life decisions, and is flat out immoral.

Let me put it simply; I have a gay friend in real life. We have an understanding of each other's sexualities (him being gay, and my being straight) and respect our differences. As a straight man, i feel comfortable hanging out at his home with the knowledge that he isn't going to go all pedobear on me....of course, that stereotype is a completely seperate issue that i dont have the time to go into.

As things stand, the overall population is still uncomfortable with the idea of legalizing gay marriage. With all the politicians and their personal scandals, one must wonder how straight women feel. Imagine the fear that your man is actually a closet-gay. With the incorporation of a document stating the legality of gay marriage, one would have to face the realities they fear most. (Whether or not that is the truth of the matter can only be told in time) The same goes for a man who may wonder why their woman is constantly joking about finding other women attractive.

[CrypticQuery]

I honestly think it is somewhat ridiculous that this is even an issue in this country. The United States allows for the free practice of whatever religion one may be; why then, are issues like this constrained to the views of a single belief system? It simply doesn't make sense; when it comes right down to it, you are punishing people and taking away their rights JUST FOR THINKING DIFFERENTLY THAN YOU. See the image below for some further clarification;

I personally don't quite agree with this. Because this just doesn't seem right. Gay-Man or Lesbian-Woman marriage just seem wrong, even in human standards.

Care to elaborate on this point?; I'd like to hear your logic on the issue.

[LoneWolf]

This is and always has been a multifaceted issue. The problem that's been stopping bills like this from being passed is the fact that America is filled with Christian conservatives. They don't want it because same-sex-marriage is a sin in the Bible. The problem I see here is letting other people have their own opinions. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean other people can't do it. I'm a Christian myself, and hell, I don't give half a rats ass about what other people do.

However, the problem doesn't solely lie with the people who oppose homosexuals. The gay community itself, at least in my opinion, makes a bigger deal of it than it needs to be. Gay pride parades are going a bit far. It's like, sure, you like something, but making such a big deal out of it just makes you look worse. Gay rights protests, well, let's just say that you aren't getting any more votes, perhaps less, by doing that.

Now, personally, I'm cool with it. As most of you know, I'm a furry. Much of the furry community is bisexual or homosexual, and really, if you were to ask me, I'm straight though I can appreciate a handsome male fur. In fact, before I was in the fandom I was with the conservatives, and thought gays were making a stupid choice. Yet now, since I'm exposed to it daily, I've learned to be okay with it, and even appreciate it.

TL;DR SUMMARY: I think that people should be allowed to do what they want. Both supporters and opposers of bills concerning this are making it difficult to pass one. Furries are often bisexual or homosexual, and have changed my views.

[sroberson]

This is and always has been a multifaceted issue. The problem that's been stopping bills like this from being passed is the fact that America is filled with Christian conservatives. They don't want it because same-sex-marriage is a sin in the Bible. The problem I see here is letting other people have their own opinions. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean other people can't do it. I'm a Christian myself, and hell, I don't give half a rats ass about what other people do.

However, the problem doesn't solely lie with the people who oppose homosexuals. The gay community itself, at least in my opinion, makes a bigger deal of it than it needs to be. Gay pride parades are going a bit far. It's like, sure, you like something, but making such a big deal out of it just makes you look worse. Gay rights protests, well, let's just say that you aren't getting any more votes, perhaps less, by doing that.

Now, personally, I'm cool with it. As most of you know, I'm a furry. Much of the furry community is bisexual or homosexual, and really, if you were to ask me, I'm straight though I can appreciate a handsome male fur. In fact, before I was in the fandom I was with the conservatives, and thought gays were making a stupid choice. Yet now, since I'm exposed to it daily, I've learned to be okay with it, and even appreciate it.

TL;DR SUMMARY: I think that people should be allowed to do what they want. Both supporters and opposers of bills concerning this are making it difficult to pass one. Furries are often bisexual or homosexual, and have changed my views.

Collectively, yes, the bisexual and homosexual facets of the furry fandom makes up the majority. You may be surprised though that most furries overall are heterosexual. Back on the original topic, I have no problem with homosexual marriage. The "sanctity" of marriage certainly isn't going to be ruined by allowing homosexuals to marry like many conservatives would have you believe. Heck, big named conservatives who are the ones carrying the Bible and suggesting it is evil and how marriage is a lifetime commitment between a man and a women are also on their 3rd or 4th wives. If you want to locate those responsible for ruining the sanctity of marriage you have no further to look than the heterosexual community. If that's not a good enough reason, then lets try this. The only places that I am aware of that mention how "vile" homosexual relations are is in the Old Testament...You can say all you want that you believe in the Bible but if you believe in the Old Testament you better start sharpening your rapiers and prepare to slay infidels in the name of God, stone people who are sinners, and expect God to smite down Las Vegas at any moment Sodom and Gomorrah style. Most people find that their beliefs will coincide with that of the New Testament, in which Jesus made no real attacks on homosexuality and instead suggested that we love all people and let God judge the sinners, not humans who have yet to remove the beams from their eyes before judging others.

But beyond that, how can one create an argument about how morally bad homosexuality that is not based upon religion? I think even the argument that they wouldn't make adequate parents is up in the air and can't be proven one way or another. Heck, for gay couples they might be more inclined to adopt (given their predicament of ...well...) clearing out orphanages and bringing the kid into a more loving environment than a government facility to shove unwanted kids (oh and by clearing them out reducing the cost of keeping the facilities running). Let's get really shallow, just by allowing homosexual marriage there is considerable chance for money to be spent in the market on MORE marriages! The volatility of money in the case of marriages between all people gay or straight pushes money through the market so it can be taxed and the government can make money off it! That's a win in my books.

If we were to get even more primal, beyond the allure of money, we can even find that homosexuality occurs in nature. It isn't something strictly based on choice (I can't say it is only based on choice since I know a gay guy who suggests it is his choice) if primates with such simple instincts have homosexual tendencies. One cannot suggest that it isn't natural for homosexuality to occur since it does happen in the wild

I just feel like it cannot be argued that homosexuality is morally incorrect, that it is bad for children, bad for society, or even biologically incorrect. The points I made suggest that it is quite contrary and that overall it would be good for society as a whole - helping cast of the veil of religious superiority and allowing humanity to take life into their own hands.

[LoneWolf]

If we were to get even more primal, beyond the allure of money, we can even find that homosexuality occurs in nature.

Fun Fact: Homosexuality [EDIT: Bisexuality, thanks User] was not uncommon in Ancient Greece, and in fact, it was considered normal. A woman was limited to how much she could leave the household, yet another man was not, thus another man was easier and more fun to travel with.

["User"]

Fun Fact: Homosexuality was not uncommon in Ancient Greece

You're thinking of bisexuality. Homosexuality was still relatively looked down upon and thus not nearly as common.

[Icy]

Just going to say this quickly and simply.

I don't agree with same-sex marriage/relationships, etc. I don't go around saying "ban it!!!" because it's not my place. I can't make someone understand why [i believe] it's wrong, so there's no point to going around doing that.

I am disgusted with all the people who do go around protesting it without foundation. However I am also disgusted by all the people going around promoting it, but I understand, they want the same rights everyone else [is supposed to have] has. I understand they don't understand why [i believe] it's wrong. And hey, they can't really do much about it. It's how they are.

So I just ignore it. Let people do what they want. I can't make anyone see why [i believe, once again] it's wrong.

I have my reasons for believing it is wrong. I'm a Christian, yes. Go ahead and judge me as another of those stupid idiots who go around loudly protesting and making a fool of themselves. I'm not, but feel free to think so because I don't expect you to not, since I believe what I stated above… and usually people who believe that are like those people I mentioned above)

One last thing, forget the Bible and all that. I like to think of it this way.

How are people born? How are we all here today? How are even all the homosexual people alive today? Usually [alright, always] from a man and a woman. Can two men have a baby? Erm… no. Two women?

So… what if everyone was gay? I guess we'd go extinct.

That proves nothing, of course. But still, if you think about it, doesn't it just seem like, a man and a woman are supposed to be together? Not two people of the same sex?

I dunno, that's just me.

Now lastly, I actually understand that two people of the same sex can love each other. It's nice and I'm sure they're happy just as a man and a woman are happy, but I still believe it is wrong. *shrug*

TL;DR

I just ignore it. Let people do what they want. You can't really stop them no matter what your views on this matter are.

Anyway, I'm pleasantly surprised that this thread has not turned into another flame war between immature posts, as these kinds of topics usually go.

(But Geo does have a way of ticking some people off with his original post in his counter-point topics)

["User"]

My personal views on this matter mirror Icy's.

As far as the politics behind his go this is a political gambit for Obama. He could end up losing a bunch of swing states (ex. Ohio, Florida, Virginia, among others) that have an easy majority of their residents opposing same sex marriage. This announcement could work in Obama's favor by mobilizing his younger democrat base but of course it will also energize the GOP base as well. Given younger people are more likely to not vote though then older people (who are more likely to be conservative) and given that Obama doesn't have remotely the same chance to get out the younger vote that he had back in 2008 (with the whole "change" theme) I see this more as a potential setback for Obama.

The issue of same sex marriage among Americans is among the least unimportant things they are concerned about heading into this election and poll after poll has confirmed this. The economy is by far and away the most important. Trying to divide Americans even more with statements like this rather then focus on what most of them are concerned about really isn't a good move.

One things for certain though, this will make a close race all the more closer. Get ready people!

[Fana McCloud]

Hahaha, because we all know that human standards are consistent across cultures and have remained unchanged across time. </sarcasm>

Standards are arbitrary and can be changed - logic is forever. XD Marriage has only one property that is consistent to this day: two people deciding that they love each other and want a formal recognition as such from their community, sometimes with legal benefits or responsibilities attached. People can marry even if they have no desire or ability to reproduce. People can marry even if they are not religious or are athiest. Our country's government and laws are supposed to be neutral religiously - taking no individual dogma into account.

And there is homosexuality in nature aside from human beings.

What logical basis is there to deny them marriage then? Legal marriages should be available to any one - individual churches can decide which ones they want performed on their grounds or by their congregation, as is their right under the principle of freedom of religious expression. I will not have civil society impose on peoples' expression of their religions any more than I will have religious people impose their morals on society at large. THAT is fair.

[CrypticQuery]

Anyway, I'm pleasantly surprised that this thread has not turned into another flame war between immature posts, as these kinds of topics usually go.

Thanks for lighting the fuse there, Icy; guess what is almost guaranteed to happen now? :lol:

[Vy'drach]

Keeping gay marriage from being legal wont keep same sex couples from being together, nor doing the things married couples do. All it's doing is denying them that classification, which affects taxes and what not. And at that point, they already shouldn't be denied the right because in matters such as that, they technically can not be denied it on the grounds of sexuality, as it's a matter of state, not church.

All denying them that right is doing, is keeping them from expressing love vows publicly, and receiving a piece of paper than declares them married, with all the benefits that come with it.

Now I don't particularly care one way or the other, but they really shouldn't be denied it, denying it is doing nothing on a moral or spiritual scale, but I don't like why Obama advocated for it. He's doing it just as a publicity stunt to get public approval.

["User"]

Thanks for lighting the fuse there, Icy; guess what is almost guaranteed to happen now?

12 user(s) are reading this topic

8 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

:lol:

[Fana McCloud]

Math fail. XD The fabric of the universe is unraveling from the gayness of this topic.

[StarFoxfan-FUR_ever]

Thanks for lighting the fuse there, Icy; guess what is almost guaranteed to happen now?

Math fail. XD The fabric of the universe is unraveling from the gayness of this topic.

And boom goes the dynamite. Yeah, that comment was just a "little bit" out of line there, eh? Although funny but....

[Fana McCloud]

It's called lighthearted humor. >:3

[StarFoxfan-FUR_ever]

I just know people who take jokes way too seriously...and this would be a topic some people actually take to heart because this would be a life changing occurence if it really went through. I understand it's for the most part a piece of paper, since most religious institutions aren't going to open their doors up suddenly, but it is the concept of being officialy married in a formal institution that counts as the experience one might want to have as opposed to getting a couple signatures and a stamp of a piece of paper, with the half-unconcious person as the "witness" for the marriage.

[Fluxy]

Geo, I'd sorrrrrta understand you more if maybe you considered marriage all around as a religious thing. I agree that if a religion makes "Marriage" only for a man and a woman, then in that religion and a marriage under it, yes. They should not be wed.

But homosexuals should be able to be married by the government's standards. I personally agree with Obama's decision to make this so.

Whether or not that plays a huge part for/against his campaign, I dunno. I haven't been keeping up with politics lately.

[Redeemer]

I believe in love, and I believe that love is a need and entitlement for every human being. If a man loves another man, so be it. If a woman loves another woman, so be it. So if gay people shouldn't marry, does this mean they shouldn't love? That's a heart breaking thought. If someone took away my right to marry just because I was different, I would be absolutely devastated.

[Milkyway64]

There are people who still get offended by homo/bisexuality these days? How?

[LoneWolf]

There are people who still get offended by homo/bisexuality these days? How?

[Gestalt]

Exactly who does the marrying? A government agent or an official of the church?

[Fana McCloud]

Anyone who has been empowered by the government to do so - can be a government official, can be a member of clergy.

[Vy'drach]

I think technically a captain of a ship still can.