Gun Laws and Shooting Calls

[AAAA]

I love guns. Ibelieve everyone who isnt mentaly retarded should keep atleast one in their home at all times. the problem that other countries miss when it comes to wanting to disarm america is that...1.disarm us and there would be noone to stand up for a corupt leader... now yes i do realize that SOME of the soldiers would not attack their own people, but we have a big majority of troops who arent natives and who i would question their restraint in following orders. 2. bad guys have guns regardless and always will, they have them in the disarmed countries ..but magicly they wouldnt here? 3. I spent alot of my life dirt poor living in the middle of nowhere and had we not had guns we wouldnt of ate. 4. america is a young country but its getting to the point where others have already been. places like iraq were once like we are and look where they are now, we are going to face some bad times, now i cant say that any of us will live to see that day, however if we do i would feel alot better in a little town of farmers armed for hunting and or protection then i would relying on our military to police all of america ... we the people ... we the people have a responsability to protect our homes and not rely on others to do it for us. and if some groups disagree...noone is keeping them in this country they are more then welcome to leave. though i dont support stricter laws i do support stricter inforcement of the ones already passed. i once seen a man i know to be mentaly retarded{he even gets money from the goverment for it} buy a gun and he said no to the are you mentaly retarded question... and no guys i am not a republican....just for the record XD

[Thomas Draco]

While I do not support banning all guns, I think regulation is important. For instance, weapons of war I do not believe should be in civilian hands. You don't need an AR-15 to hunt.

The AR-15 is a civilian use version of the M-16, and is not even close to military grade weapons.

[Faisul]

It's still an assault rifle. Show me the deer you'd need to use an assault rifle to bring down and I'll concede your point (the answer is a communist cyborg deer).

[Vy'drach]

It's not an assault rifle. It's a varmint rifle. Assault rifle means it fires on burst or fully automatic mode. It is a very popular hunting rifle for small game due to the common round, relatively high accuracy, low recoil, modular nature of the rifle, and because Hollywood has convinced people it's the greatest weapon ever.

For shooting a deer, you'd really not want anything less than a 7.62x39mm, which is the round that the AK-47 uses, but even then that might be a tad weak and I'd suggest at least a 7.62x51mm NATO, round used in the G3 battle rifle, M14 battle rifle, FN FAL battle rifle, M60 machine gun, MG3 machine gun. Y'know the AK, right? Easily the most successful and infamous weapon in the world, and the first assault rifle to enter full fledged production like that.

I have a Saiga AK-47 chambered for 7.62x51mm NATO instead of the 7.62x39mm.

That thing, except oh wait, it's not. Can't find a picture of me at the range with just it, but here, have this. It's a tad outdated of a picture, but w/e.

That one on the right is my AK-47. Made by Saiga, same people that make the shotguns used by Spetsnaz, as it's nothing more than an *insert shotgun gauge here* AK. Saiga got started as a company when there was a huge influx in the Saiga antelope populations in Russia and Russia didn't want to give people assault rifles, so they made semi-automatic versions of the rifles to give to people to cull the population, then Saiga started making all kinds of AK based firearms.

The second one from the left is my Springfield M1A, which the only difference between that and the Springfield M14 Battle Rifle is this:

Mine is missing the parts to go full auto. The stock is a military M14 stock and actually has the cutout for where the selector would be, however.

Remember when I mentioned the G3 a tad earlier as being a battle rifle? Well there's these:

http://world.guns.ru...-b-195-c-e.html

There's my me and my CETME rifle, as well as the page on the CETME rifles. What this has to do with the Gewehr 3, I'll explain.

Bit of a history lesson. Near the end of WWII, a German arms designer named Ludwig Vorgrimler designed a prototype weapon, but it never got accepted or put into production, so he went to Spain after WWII and sold the design to Spain, who made several models of a rifle based off his design, that became the CETME rifles. The design went back to Germany when they were looking for a good design for a 7.62x51mm NATO battle rifle, and Heckler & Koch tweaked it and refined it into the Gewehr 3 series of weapons.

What I'm holding right there, is a CETME Modelo C Sporter.

They are not assault rifles. They are not battle rifles. They are civilian sporting rifles, same as the AR-15. Now I don't own an AR-15 or any 5.56x45mm NATO rifle, but that's because I hate the round and hate the AR-15 and all the firearms based off it, including the M16, M4 Carbine, and SR-25/Mk 11 mod 0/XM110 (depending on which branch of the military is using it). Two exceptions, however. The original M16 had two saving graces, namely that every bullet cavitated on impact (tumbled end over end), and it had an insanely high rate of fire for the time, unheard of outside of machine guns and the Thompson. The second exception, is that the AR-15 platform, while always way overpriced for what it is, is made not a piece of crap by the simplest alteration. Putting a gas piston in instead of letting it be the standard direct gas impingement action. Doing that increases the reliability exponentially, and there are clubs and organizations out there dedicated solely to the manufacturing and sale of gas piston ARs. Now I wouldn't buy one due to the exorbitant price tag that goes on ARs, I would not mind owning one of those piston ARs because I can pretty much guarantee that it'd be a honey of a gun, and anything you don't like about it, can be swapped out. Don't like the stock? Swap it out. Don't like the barrel? Swap it out. Don't like the sights? Swap 'em out. Don't like the foregrip? Swap it out. Don't like the trigger? Swap it out. That is why the ARs are such popular sporting rifles. They are so modular that you can make a custom gun tailor made to your comfort and preferences.

[Faisul]

Welp, shows you how much I know about these here guns. *toot*

EDIT: Hang on, you guys use military grade ammunition to hunt? Man, I'd hate being a game animal over there.

[Vy'drach]

Military grade is a misleading term. 7.62x51mm NATO and .308 Winchester have such few differences that no one really knows the difference now-a-days. "Military grade" doesn't mean anything.

A lot of people use above military grade since military ammo is FMJ, where as hunters often use hollow points, which are illegal in the military.

Military grade ammo is usually substandard to civilian ammo. It's mass produced and barely passable quality.

[TCPeppyTc]

Wow what a neat collection!

Do the pro gun people here think assault rifles should be banned or is that ban wrong?

[Vy'drach]

I'm iffy on it. There's states that sell fully automatic weapons, assault rifles and SMGs, and have less crime and gun related murders than California, which is one of the strictest states on guns, but I generally don't see a real point for normal ownership. Ideally legal, but... can't think of the term, but there's precautions in place above normal firearm ownership.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7d7liCgNb5E

[Faisul]

Military grade is a misleading term. 7.62x51mm NATO and .308 Winchester have such few differences that no one really knows the difference now-a-days. "Military grade" doesn't mean anything.

A lot of people use above military grade since military ammo is FMJ, where as hunters often use hollow points, which are illegal in the military.

Military grade ammo is usually substandard to civilian ammo. It's mass produced and barely passable quality.

Ah, right. Thanks for clearing that up. The use of hollowpoints in hunting is mandated by law here, as to make sure big game is killed humanely. I'm not clear on the exact regulation on firearms in Norway, but I'm rather sure that anything above semi-automatic shotguns and 'hunting rifles' (as vague as that term is) is strictly verboten. As far as the AR-15 is concerned, the sale of it is banned here, the wording of the law prohibiting the sale of 'semi-automatic rifles with a military appearance' - with regards to the firing mechanism used, and as well the fact that it resembles an anorexic M16, to my uninitiated eyes. Apparently there is a way to procure it through membership in shooting clubs, but then again they tend to be strictly regulated in terms of withholding the firing mechanism of barely legal firearms on the premises after using the firing range.

Didn't mean to turn this into a Norwayguns non-argument, but I thought you might find it interesting.

[Vy'drach]

S'all good, and it sounds like Norway went the same way as California and passed "If it looks cool, you can't have it" laws against guns, despite not actually covering things that really matter most of the time.

[Faisul]

If cool is defined by how many gadgets and shit you can put on your bullet penis then sure

But for serious, the background for the law is to be able to distinguish a weapon between civilian and military use. Norway is -actually- fairly liberal when it comes to guns compared to many European countries, in that it has a comparatively large amount of gun owners both recreational and professional (i.e. trappers and such), due to a pretty long history of being the rustic hillbilly of Northern Europe for a million billion years until Superjesus gave us the oil. The most restrictive aspect of gun ownership here is the prohibition on automatic weapons, which remains firmly in the hands of the military. The most relevant concern as I can see it is to avoid confusion in what is legal/illegal to procure and own, and outside of a special collector's dispensation for certain classes of automatic weapons, autos are banned across the board.

Due to automatic weapons (especially assault rifles) being so visually distinctive most of the time, the court ruled that it is easier, in the interest of simplicity, to simply ban the sale of weapons that bear that same visual profile. In the case of semiautomatic rifles which carry a 'military appearance', the argument is that it is relatively simple, with some make and models, to refurbish the firing mechanism to make it an automatic weapon, which is a felony, so the weapon is simply banned to avoid that happening. Draconian? Probably. Sensible? In my opinion, yes. There's no way in hell, to me, outside of specially interested collectors, that a civilian should need or have a use for an assault rifle.

[TCPeppyTc]

Ive been rethinking my stance on gun control.

It seems the laws should be looser, since criminals can get them on black markets. The more guns that are owned by law abiding people, the safer society becomes!

Just think, if every student at Virginia tech was packing, there would be no massacre. Ditto for many mass shootings

[Faisul]

That's an absolute fantasy and you know it. More guns does not inherently equate higher safety, and introducing an arsenal of firearms to a high school setting is a total goddamn disaster in the making. Additionally, the idea that, were you there during the shooting, packing heat, that you would calmly dispatch the would-be killers with expert aim followed by posing over your defeated nemesis while an American flag flutters resolutely in the background is completely ludicrous. The reality would just be a hail of bullets flying everywhere while panicked kids fire indiscriminately in the general direction of the threat, maiming and killing far more than the V-tec shooter was ever able to in the process.

[CrypticQuery]

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