Romney and Vietnam

[TCPeppyTc]

Im just curious, why do you think Romney's lack of Vietnam service has not been made a campaign issue? Is it because Obama probably opposed that war, and he isnt old enough to have served in it?

[unoservix]

or because nobody really gives a shit about what the candidates were doing during the Vietnam war?

he's not running on foreign policy/military bona fides (which is probably a good thing for him because whenever he does open his mouth about foreign policy something stupid seems to keep coming out)

[CrypticQuery]

[Harlow]

Because they are over (or should be over) it already?

Going to a war is not a decisive factor to being a good President.

[Peter]

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or because nobody really gives a shit about what the candidates were doing during the Vietnam war?<br />

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he&#39;s not running on foreign policy/military bona fides (which is probably a good thing for him because whenever he does open his mouth about foreign policy something stupid seems to keep coming out)<br />

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</p>

Please tell me you're referring to Obama. He's trying to get terror organizations such as the Muslim Brotherhood and Al Queada in power by helping them seize control in Libya and Egypt, returned a bust of Winston Churchill to the British for no "provable" reason (although I personally think he is strongly anti-colonialist, and Great Britain was big on colonizing back in the day of Barack Sr, and remember, Obama's book is called "Dreams FROM my Father") and he still refuses to label China as a currency manipulator. Don't even get me started on Iran, which he still refuses to do anything about but sit and watch them bully Israel, basically leaving our biggest ally in the Middle East for dead against a terrorist country with nukes that wants to blow them off the face of the earth? By the way, how come he didn't support a democratic coup in Iran back in 2009-10?

And don't even try the, "he killed Bin Laden!" excuse. The only reason he pushed the red button on Bin Laden was because the President's approval rating had hit historic lows in April of 2011.

[unoservix]

wow, someone spoon-fed you a lot of lies

how about you try backing up any of that nasty bullshit you just reached into your anus and pulled out? try some actual facts, by the way, like "the Muslim Brotherhood is not actually a terrorist organization" or "there was actually no democratic coup in 2009-10 and there is actually no such thing as a 'democratic coup'" or "that Winston Churchill bust was there on loan and returned once the guy to whom it was loaned (George W Bush) stopped being president" or how every few months the US ratchets up another round of sanctions on Iran or well the facts that disprove your pathetic little lies are just everywhere

incidentally, how come our "biggest ally in the Middle East" a) needs our help and b) spies on our government as though we were an enemy and does nothing to help our foreign policy in the region? do we have to be on their side because your invisible sky wizard tells us to or what?

go pull your head out of your own ass please. i'll still be here when (if) you do.

edit: actually, as long as we're talking about Winston Churchill's beautiful bust, it's worth pointing out that squawking about that is the ugly shadow of birtherism

[Drasiana]

returned a bust of Winston Churchill to the British for no "provable" reason (although I personally think he is strongly anti-colonialist, and Great Britain was big on colonizing back in the day of Barack Sr, and remember, Obama's book is called "Dreams FROM my Father")

Whoa dude

That's like how if you take the number of stars on the American flag, you get 50. If you add 5 + 0, you get 5. 5 is the number of people involved in the British-Irish boyband One Direction. One of the band members, Zayn Malik, is a Muslim.

Makes you think

[unoservix]

also i really like this idea that Obama's father, the guy who was not really a part of his life, is apparently some great big evil influence on him and it turned him into an anti-colonialist which is a) apparently a bad thing? and b) totally an explanation for stuff like his vast expansion of the use of unarmed drones to attack terrorists and stuff

but really, squawking about Winston Churchill's magnificent bust and conjuring intellectual influences from the father that wasn't in his life is actually about reminding us that Obama is black. and one must wonder why you wish to remind us that Obama is black!

none of which has anything to do with how Romney says stupid shit like "Russia is our number one geopolitical foe"

[Arashikage]

I'm with Crazy here

[Fana McCloud]

Actually Vietnam service is still kinda important to people WHEN it's brought up - look at how they derailed John Kerry's bid for president with that "Swiftboat Veterans for Truth" garbage, amongst other things. But since neither candidate in this race served there, it's kinda a moot point. Lots of far more important things to focus on.

As for Peter's comments... I'm seriously not even going there. Sounds like he's been spoonfed by right-wing conspiracy theorists who are known to outright make up "facts" or distort the truth to make their points. There's nothing to refute because it's nonsense. I would suggest doing some research from more neutral sources. Fox News is not a neutral source, neither is Glen Beck or Rush Limbaugh.

[sroberson]

FANA! Long time no see!

To tell the truth, I am way more concerned about Romney's offshore bank accounts than I am about his service (or lack of) in Vietnam. That stuff kind of worries me to know that he has already thrown the United States under the train tracks once already in regards to Bain Capital to turn a profit, and now he again has a vested interest in the United States economy getting worse since he is hedged against it! But back to the Vietnam bit, I would have draft dodged or found my way out of it. Doesn't mean I am a bad person or don't believe in an "America"....just means I don't think problems need to be solved by slaughtering people....Unless that person is Rush Limbaugh. We should be getting to the point in time where Vietnam service is pretty moot seeing as most vets are getting around in age pretty well and may not even be eligible for office because they have gone senile.

[ballisticwaffles]

Whoa WHoa WHOA

All of you are CLEARLY missing the bigger picture here.

Obama was born in 1961

Romney was born in 1947

If you add the two together you get 3908 Which is both the number of Nyx, an Asteroid that exists somewhere. Asteroid has 8 numbers, the same amount of letters in Airliner.

You know what this means

Obama did 9-11.

But wait!

Obama did 9-11 has 9 letters 3 numbers 2 spaces and 1 dash.

Dash?

PONIES!

Ponies has 6 letters

if you reerange and add a few you get,

Stop with this conspiratoral bullshit and why are we bringing Vietnam into the equation? Vietnam was a quagmire of a war where countless lives were wasted on an idiotic battleplan in an environment where guerilla warfare is the call of the hour. Anybody who didnt serve in that war is to be congradulated for either draft dodging and or being lucky enough to miss their numbers, and anyone who did serve should be given a great big hug and too many words of kindness. Plus Obama was 14 when the war ended. Why the hell would he grill someone on a war not even he could serve in? Forget this idiotic pandering and actually look at the candidates for what they will do and not what they didnt or didnt have the capacity due to age to do. Seriously, this is the tactic bush used to win in 2000, bash the opposer until the lies obscure the truth.

Truth?

Truth has 5 letters

You wanna know what else has 5 letters?

Me too.

The Numbers dont lie.

[Gene Inari]

[Peter]

Now now, I amm not affirming this as fact. We're all stating our opinion, remember? No need to go on liberal rants. This:

Quote from unoservix

"wow, someone spoon-fed you a lot of lies...how about you try backing up any of that nasty bullshit you just reached into your anus and pulled out?...do we have to be on their side because your invisible sky wizard tells us to or what?...go pull your head out of your own ass please."

Is completely unacceptable. I'm merely stating my opinion on the matter, so you don't need to express yours in an inflammatory way. And really dude, why bring religion into it? I'm pretty ashamed of how Christians have been painted as racists. So please don't offend me any more.

[Drasiana]

Is completely unacceptable. I'm merely stating my opinion on the matter, so you don't need to express yours in an inflammatory way. And really dude, why bring religion into it? I'm pretty ashamed of how Christians have been painted as racists. So please don't offend me any more.

"It's completely unacceptable!" says the guy as he mocks people for going on "liberal rants" that called him out for claiming blatant lies as truth. "I'm ashamed of how Christians have been painted as racists," he continues, because Obama being black is only part of why he's clearly an African terrorist. Looking down his nose at those scummy liberals and their petty demands for citations, their disgust with racism, and dissatisfaction with religious excuse, he cries, "I'M OFFENDED!"

[unoservix]

i'm pretty ashamed of how so many of Obama's critics, far from criticising him on policy or philosophical grounds, decide to just make shit up and constantly call attention to the fact that he's black! also i am actually serious in wondering what the United States gets out of its alliance with Israel that is worth the staggering cost of maintaining it.

anyways, on topic, y'know i'm gonna be honest, i really don't give a shit whether or not Romney served in Vietnam, for a lot of reasons, but the really big one is that he's not running on the strength of foreign policy and military credentials. he keeps pointing to his business credentials and previous service in office as reasons why we should vote for him. so, y'know, criticizing his business/previous public office credentials? all well and good, he keeps pointing to those as reasons why we should vote for him. criticizing him for not having gone to Vietnam? well, so what, lots of people didn't go to Vietnam, but Romney isn't trying to tell us we should vote for him because he's like GI Joe with nicer hair and less caffeine.

anyway as i understand it, McCain personally forbade attacks on Obama over lack of military service in 2008. that was probably a wise move, because the Vietnam war ended before Obama was old enough to enlist, and, really, McCain was going to win any military service pissing contest in that election anyways.

[Fana McCloud]

Now now, I amm not affirming this as fact. We're all stating our opinion, remember? No need to go on liberal rants.

Liberal rants, conservative rants - both are effectively devoid of meaning because they're based on emotional responses that are often misguided.

I would advise you that opinions based on flat out lies aren't opinions worth having, however. It's one thing to have a different interpretation of the facts, and another entirely to make up facts to support a preconceived notion. A lot of what you said fell into the latter category and that is why you got a rather inflammatory response - whether or not said inflammatory response was justified I leave up to personal interpretation. I however think Unoservix's remarks could have been worded far more politely, but their truth remains. Labeling your words an "opinion" are not a "get out of using logic" free card. Please base them on something real.

[unoservix]

man, this is just like how Glenn Beck raped and murdered a young girl in 1990, isn't it

i mean, not that i'm saying Glenn Beck raped and murdered a young girl in 1990. like i'm not affirming that it's a fact or anything. just that there are questions. about Glenn Beck. raping and murdering a young girl. in 1990. the media should be asking these questions.

not to say that Glenn Beck did in fact rape and murder a young girl in 1990. i'm just saying.

this would all go away if he would just produce his real original long-form didn't-rape-and-murder-a-young-girl-in-1990 certificate.

[Faisul]

Well, I'm glad to see my monday morning gloom dispelled by some grade-A honest-to-god entertainment! Nothing like a grab-bag of conspiracy theory and indignant petulance from Peter to make my smile veritably split my head clean in two. I mean, liberal rants, really? Oh, you merely stated your 'opinion.' Well then, let me give you some of mine!

Paul Ryan is an android built and programmed by the still-living husk of the lizard creature from outer space otherwise known to history as Ayn Rand to spread her brand of ultimate selfishness and indifference to fellow man in order to fracture American society so completely into indifferent enclaves of robber barons, stripping the world of all its resources and squandering it away in terrible vanity projects, further in order to weaken the planet and ready it for an alien invasion where Rand's reptilian co-conspirators will descend upon us and force us all to read the literary disaster that was Atlas Shrugged! Oh, John Galt, not the Speech again!

No, wait, that's not an opinion... That's a statement of fact! As in... I actually believe this shit! No I don't, but you see, when you make a grandiose statement such as Baraka Hussein 'The Kenyan Rock and Roll' Obama being in league with the, hahaha, terrorist menace of the Muslim Brotherhood and AL-QAIDA (hahahahahah, didn't he just have their boss killed? seems counter-productive to me!) and don't preface it with a cheeky little "This is my personal opinion" you're really leaving yourself open to some serious scrutiny. If you'd just done that we'd left it off with feeling that your opinions were terrible, but now we're forced to contend with the fact that you've been lied to! As in, you actually believe the stuff you're saying instead of indicating that your personal knowledge is an interpretation of what you've been told - ie. a subjective opinion, versus infallible, incontrovertible truth.

Now, I know you're young, so you have that excuse at least - but take it from me, you can spend a whole lot of your early years just going along on what uncle Rush says but at some point you're going to be old enough to vote and God help me if you do that with your current stock of pre-packed and canned Teabagger propaganda! Pay attention in school and don't be so quick to dismiss opinions and statements that run cross with yours as 'liberal rants' just because they don't check with your (fairly limited and apparently compromised) personal knowledge on the subject. Christ save us, you might actually learn something! Or you can contend yourself with what Fox News tells you. They're fair and balanced, after all.

HAHAHAHAHAHA YEAH BUBS A FRIDGE! NEXT YOU'LL TELL ME THAT THEY HAVE A MATTRESS TO SLEEP ON! OH, LUCKY DUCKY!!!

EDIT: Hang on, I forgot to be on-topic!

Concerning why Vietnam hasn't become a campaign issue - really, I can't imagine a more desperate attempt to win over undecided voters than that. Seeing that, as others have said, Obama was in his early teens at the time of the war, and the fact that Romney's involvement in the war was... well, he spent thirty months in France as a mormon missionary, so idunno? It would take one hell of a spin to make this into a campaign issue. And, let's not forget, there's been a growing element of war exhaustion in America in recent years as the Afghan campaign slogs ever on. It hasn't been much discussed here, but you don't really see the kind of 'Hero Returns in Triumph' sensations all that much any more - War vets really have a rougher time now than they did after WW2, Vietnam was a goddamn travesty for the GIs that went over and survived it, and the Iraq-Afghan wars seems to be turning out much in the same vein for returning soldiers. Coupled with the increased scepticism towards the wars and people just not paying attention to it anymore now that the Final Boss has been defeated (and they're tired of hearing about friendly fire and slaughtered goat herders), I'd wager a bet that having a medal is no longer such a strong point for a presidency than it used to be.

[Peter]

I feel like a republican guest on msnbc right now.

You guys are complaining I'm offended? Funny how everything we do is racist, but you guys can rip on us all we want.

Need I cite Debbie Wasserman-Schultz lying about something an Israeli ambassador never said? Or allegations of sexual harassment against Suzanne Barr? Or Joe Biden saying "They gonna put y'all back in chains" in frontof a black audience? Or Obama claiming that Romney and Ryan will destroy Medicare, when he is taking 800 billion out of it for his own little healthcare project (which, by the way, gives free healthcare to illegal immigrants, and denies cancer treatment to anyone over 76?) Or Stephanie Cutter running an ad claiming Mitt Romney killed a woman by closing a steel plant? (She had healthcare for 2 years after it was closed, by the way) Or, trying to distract from his PATHETiC RECORD, Obama claims Romney is a felon?

Democrats sure are good, honest people, aren't they?

I don't think I'll frequent this Part of the forum anymore. It seems that it isn't just Democratic politicians that just attack and attack. It's the people too.

We have a Romney sticker on our car, it's been backed into twice. We also have Romney signs out in our front yard. They were stolen and our house was TP'd.

You should probably tell Vladamir Putin that your buddy Obama will "have more flexibility after the election".

[Xortberg]

Peter, nobody's getting on your case because you're a Republican. They're getting on your case because you're coming across as a paranoid nutjob moron spouting off all the conspiracy theories you can to make Obama seem like the devil.

I mean, you almost had a good thing going in your most recent post. You actually made points about things that various Democrats had done wrong. You didn't cite any sources or anything, so you definitely could have made a stronger post with more effort, but at least it wasn't conspiracy shit.

And then you go and destroy any cred by pulling that "Hurr durr Obama and Putin so liek Socialism or sumthin!" scare tactic. Stop that shit. If you want to be in the Counter Point, you have to be ready to be called a nutjob if you start spouting paranoid scare tactic shit.

[Faisul]

- GHOPASINJFDCØJBNAØDOUBGAFNVOIVAISUHFVNJKDGBIHSNBVCKGB *ragequit*

damn it feels good to be part of the liberal conspiracy

[Fana McCloud]

Peter, you're not being attacked for your political affiliation, you're being attacked for telling falsehoods. What these random Democrats have done has no bearing on the fact that a lot of what you have said are verifiable falsehoods, and it has no bearing on our truthfulness and credibility in refuting those falsehoods because those people aren't us and we aren't making their claims. There is no guilt by association with a political party, as one doesn't have to agree with the party's entire platform or claims made by its members to still affiliate with them. Please do not mistake us for them and do not mistake what we are actually objecting to. I'm conservative on some issues even though in general I am a liberal, so my views have nothing to do with demonizing Republicans because that'd be pretty hypocritical. My views have everything to do with not basing opinions on falsehoods because that is what I believe in most of all.

[Drasiana]

Wait, don't leave! You forgot this!

edit: Because I feel like continuing with an actual effortpost

What's funny here, Peter, is that nobody is scapegoating other Republicans to refute your specific points. Any mention to "reasons why Romney/Ryan/Glenn Beck are evil" have been made completely facetitiously, to mock exactly how you're behaving with Democrats. None of the so-called EVIL DEMOCRATS of this topic have even said "the Republican party", outside the context of "nobody is attacking you for being Republican", in a single one of their posts. You are the one suggesting shit like "this random journalist published a dubious article! Therefore everything you say is wrong!!!" and proving yourself completely impervious to pesky "facts" (the circumstances surrounding the Churchill bust), as well as impervious to when people actually agree with you (Uno re: Israel). By the way, calling us DEMOCRATS does nothing to form an actual argument against anything we're saying, nor does some sob story about typical election hazing that, holy shit, happens to people with Obama perephernalia in their lawn too.

Also, "need I cite"? Yes, yes you fucking do, being that your complete negligence in doing so is why you're being "attacked".

[Faisul]

"Some Democrats lie and cheat and have been scummy people; we should hang them all!"

"The Republican Party seems to be built on promises and statements vindicating the xenophobia, intolerance and ignorance of its overwhelmingly white constituency. I don't know, sounds alright, I guess."