Policy Changes

[DZComposer]

In response to recent incidents, I have made some policy changes. These are effective immediately and are non-negotiable at this time.

1. No more Politics, Philosophy, Religion, or hard debates on any other subject. This community has proven that it cannot handle these kinds of discussions without people's feelings getting hurt, so I'm just going to eliminate this problem at the source. The Pub and The Counter Point are closed indefinately.

2. Bronies. Bronies are still welcome as members, but discussion of "bronyism" and the like are now off-limits. There are brony forums out there if you wish to be part of that culture. If you want to have a discussion on the MLP show as a TV show, that is fine. But the brony culture has driven-down the maturity level here and has been a contributing factor to recent drama. Remember: SF-O is a Star Fox fansite, not a MLP fansite.

3. Zero-Tolerance for Flame War. I have instructed the mods to lock threads on sight that decend into a flame war.

4. Zero-tolerance for staff disrespect. If you disagree with a staff decision, take it directly to me. Don't be acccusatory, and especially don't start shit with the staff member you have an issue with. If you start drama with the staff, you will be banned.

I really hate going all BOFH like this, but I will not let this community be ripped apart by easilly avoidable drama.

[Steve]

Nvm with my previous comment.

 

At any rate, keep it civil

[Xortberg]

In response to recent incidents, I have made some policy changes. These are effective immediately and are non-negotiable at this time.

1. No more Politics, Philosophy, Religion, or hard debates on any other subject. This community has proven that it cannot handle these kinds of discussions without people's feelings getting hurt, so I'm just going to eliminate this problem at the source. The Pub and The Counter Point are closed indefinately.

I'm fine with this. There was rarely any discussion in those places anyway, and you are right that they turned out to be flamewars more often than not. No objections.

 

3. Zero-Tolerance for Flame War. I have instructed the mods to lock threads on sight that decend into a flame war.

 

This is cool to an extent, but I think your wording here is a bit too... hardcore? At least, the way I'm interpreting it, it seems like two people can just ruin an otherwise fine topic for everyone else - for example, me and Dras in the brony topic. Perhaps a temporary lock to a topic that turns into a flamewar and then the staff can decide on a case-by-case basis if the problem is with the topic or just a couple of people? It just seems like with the way you worded it, we're gonna have to be walking on eggshells if we want our topics to stay open.

 

4. Zero-tolerance for staff disrespect. If you disagree with a staff decision, take it directly to me. Don't be acccusatory, and especially don't start shit with the staff member you have an issue with. If you start drama with the staff, you will be banned.

 

I'm okay with this as well. The only staff member I can think of that I ever actively "disrespect" is User, and that's just making fun of him because he's Canadian. No objections here.

 

HOWEVER! I do have beef with this:

2. Bronies. Bronies are still welcome as members, but discussion of "bronyism" and the like are now off-limits. There are brony forums out there if you wish to be part of that culture. If you want to have a discussion on the MLP show as a TV show, that is fine. But the brony culture has driven-down the maturity level here and has been a contributing factor to recent drama. Remember: SF-O is a Star Fox fansite, not a MLP fansite.

 

 

First off, I seriously disagree with the claim that bronies have driven down the maturity level. The forum has always had people posting image macros, for example; bronies just post pony macros. People have gotten into arguments about Krystal just as heated, if not more so, than mine and Dras's argument in the brony topic. I know that you are the law here and technically you don't have to prove anything to me, but I'm just not convinced that bronies are the problem with the maturity levels here. I feel I'm just the same as I was before I became a brony, in terms of maturity.

 

The problem with mine and Dras's argument wasn't the brony topic, I'm certain. We would have eventually found a way to butt heads over something else, and it would have likely bee just as large a fiasco.

 

Also, as a related matter:

 

I really hate going all BOFH like this, but I will not let this community be ripped apart by easilly avoidable drama.

Doesn't it seem to you that completely banning a topic of discussion that has, save for the occasional incident, remained in its own topic over 2 years and almost 2300 posts might possibly cause some drama? I know that even if you stand firm on this decision I'm not going to leave, if only because there are some people here that I want to stay in touch with and have no other way to do so, but the brony topic was one of the main draws I had to come to the site and check for new posts, which led to what little activity I have to my name nowadays and I'm none too happy about its closing.

 

BUT, those are really my only beefs with your suggested changes, and one of them just needs a little adjustment in my opinion. Other than that, I approve.

[Arashikage]

I became a brony this past summer, and if anything I think I've become more mature since then.  I've began to tolerate more and not lash out as much. 

 

EDIT: I do feel like it's a bit of an overreaction to close the thread permanently because of one argument, perhaps the only real argument I've seen on that thread.  If two people are going to argue with each other to a degree such as that, they're going to do it no matter what thread they're on.  Unfortunately, a response like this will end up getting many more topics locked and banned permanently.

Edited March 9, 2013 by Arashikage

[Drasiana]

We would have eventually found a way to butt heads over something else

 

Hmm, weird, because literally the only times I have ever had arguments with you--at least ones that devolved into such a mess as that--were about ponies.

 

Agreed with your changes, DZ.  It's been difficult to remember that this is a Star Fox site lately, for a multitude of reasons.

[Dr. Orange]

Interesting. 

 

I know I'll personally will miss the counter-point, there were some great times on there and by removing them hurts the forum in suck a way. I'll also miss the Brony topic and all the fun that was put into there. Yet, I'm not so sure it has driven-down the maturity. Or even if it is maturity but just outright disrespect for one another. 

 

Still, I think I speak for the community in someway when I say that we really need to get out act together. We need a serious reboot about what we post. Really. Sometimes its just disrespectful and outright shameful. 

 

But I guess if we act childish, we lose privileges. 

[Vy'drach]

I must say, I am disappoint, DZ.

 

The brony topic was one of the more active topics, and this one bit of drama that had nothing to really do with the brony fandom or anything gets it a perma-lock? Yeah, I can't help it's more your own personal prejudice that was the cause of this. The same prejudice that caused you to come into the thread about ponies meet Star Fox and make your own drama as you throw a hissy fit about protecting the sanctity of Star Fox from the corrupting influence of ponies.

 

Two people with a history of going at it start an argument in a topic (something that totally hasn't happened before at all or anything) in the one topic that is about something you openly hate, gets it a permalock.

 

Seems legit.

 

The reason people aren't actually talking about Star Fox is because Star Fox has been talked to death in every bloody aspect possible. There is no new developments to discuss. If you want I'm sure Milky and I could start arguing about whether or not it's possible to like Krystal as a character for more than her physical appearance again. Because, while fun, that inevitable circle argument didn't piss everyone who happened to get caught near it off or anything.

 

But no, a rather active topic about something you hate that gets one major argument in it that had little to do with the topic itself gets permalocked.

 

Seems. Legit.

[Steve]

This was a joint decision. Not only DZ's. And :

 

In response to recent incidents, I have made some policy changes. These are effective immediately and are non-negotiable at this time.
 

[Xortberg]

Ah. I'm a bit embarrassed to have missed that bit.

 

Welp, in that case, I'll patiently wait with my criticisms. They've already been stated, so they'll be there when the policies do become negotiable.

[Steve]

We all have to catch a break from this. The staff is running dry. Both remaining Admins have to figure things out since DZ and I both have full time jobs + other stuff going on, so we have to focus on getting the staff team up and going to cover up a lot of things. 

 

The zero tolerance and the lack of risk with certain topics will certainly ease  the forum management for us while things get sorted out. I'm not promising anything regarding the policy changes, however, there will be a time and place to discuss them properly when the time comes.

[Icy]

The posting of ponies in every single topic that is ever created is really annoying, so I agree with DZ's point on that.

 

Everything else is good too. Counter-Point has had some good topics before, but every few weeks there are really big debates filled with people too sensitive to debate it properly.

[Arashikage]

The posting of ponies in every single topic that is ever created is really annoying, so I agree with DZ's point on that.

 

But it hadn't been a problem on every topic because there was a place for it: the brony thread.

[Xidphel]

Icy, try to find the link between my location, quote, avy and sig minus the gif.

[Thu'um]

I like this, A LOT. 

 

I hope alot of these rules are around to stay. 

 

I think that with out the counter point giving us an excuse to rip one another's throats out we might all get along really well. In till Krystal becomes popular again.  

[Gestalt]

Yeah,

 

I starfox'd in the starfox board.

 

I welcomed in the welcome wagon.

 

I journal'd in the journal zone.

 

I  RP'd in the roleplay section.

 

I lounged in the lounge.

 

I rec room'd in the rec room.

 

Number 2 is indeed a tall order and I think its unfair to ask us to quit cold turkey after a year of not knowing you thought we were defacing star-fox. But i'm glad you didn't  auto-ban us, and that we have been warned. Though, I wish it was a more subtle warning.

 

For now, I will walk the line and cope with the circumstances. After all, a community has more than one part to it. So, there's plenty else here to do.

[DZComposer]

Two people with a history of going at it start an argument in a topic (something that totally hasn't happened before at all or anything) in the one topic that is about something you openly hate, gets it a permalock.

 

But no, a rather active topic about something you hate that gets one major argument in it that had little to do with the topic itself gets permalocked.

 

Seems. Legit.

If I wanted to close that thread because I don't like ponies, believe me, I would have done it a long time ago.

Number 2 is indeed a tall order and I think its unfair to ask us to quit cold turkey after a year of not knowing you thought we were defacing star-fox. But i'm glad you didn't auto-ban us, and that we have been warned. Though, I wish it was a more subtle warning.

I didn't close it because I thought it was defacing Star Fox, I closed it because of the drama. I brought that up because I wanted to make the point that there are dedicated communities for that stuff that allow even more open discussion than we did here.

Also, this rule may not be permanent. But it stands for now.

[Robert Monroe]

I... don't think this was how things were meant to turn out.

 

The belt needed to be tightened, maybe even the whip cracked, but not... this.

 

I usually stand by your wisdom, DZ, but unless this is a temporary solution to make everyone calm the fuck down, I will have to stand opposed this time.

[manthony_Higgs]

Being the new guy who's mostly here for TF2, I'm in the dark about most of this, but to me it seems like this is mostly petty drama between a few individuals blown way out of proportion.  But hey, I'm new, my two cents are less than anyone else's half cent.

[Vy'drach]

If I wanted to close that thread because I don't like ponies, believe me, I would have done it a long time ago.

 

Not to be accusatory, but just for the sake of argument solely, but I doubt this. A smart person would realize that if they went around locking topics simply because they didn't like them, regardless of a lack of rule violations or such, well, what kind of person would they seem? Tyrannical seems a fitting adjective for that kind of person. People would generally not want to be on a site run by a tyrant, I imagine. But something like this would give that person something they wanted, needed even, a form of justification. That way one could lock the topic without being so blatant about it.

 

 

 

 

 

Again, just for argument's sake.

 

 

The problem as I see it isn't bronies or inattentive mods. It's that the mod force is stretched too thin. You need more mods. People who, whether they want to or not, check every topic and see how it's progressing. I'm sure some folks'll see this as a ploy to become a mod, but hopefully you'll recall I haven't ever put in to be a mod, and I haven't wanted to be a mod, but fuck it, if it'd help get the brony topic back and, as I see it, nullify a scapegoat, I'd bear that burden. I wouldn't say happily, but it'd be gladly. However I would be Gestapo mode about it. I can assure you of one thing, though, from now on, if I even suspect things of getting out of hand I'll be hitting that report button to avoid another cluster fuck, so if something does become of that situation, then inattentive mods really would be the cause of the problem.

 

 

 

I also hope y'all realize what a momentous occasion this is for me. This is the second time in my SF-O history that I be mad.

 

 

Here's hoping to things ending up the way they should be.

[Snys93]

Okay DZ, I'll keep it mind

[DZComposer]

Not to be accusatory, but just for the sake of argument solely, but I doubt this. A smart person would realize that if they went around locking topics simply because they didn't like them, regardless of a lack of rule violations or such, well, what kind of person would they seem? Tyrannical seems a fitting adjective for that kind of person. People would generally not want to be on a site run by a tyrant, I imagine. But something like this would give that person something they wanted, needed even, a form of justification. That way one could lock the topic without being so blatant about it.

Also, if I wanted to get rid of bronies, I could have also used this as an exucse and banned all of you. But I didn't.

I'm sorry you feel that there was some ulterior motive, but I have stated my reasoning. If you want to wear a tinfoil hat over this, I probably won't be able to change your mind, and you have the right to your opinion. But, if you want to continue to publicly sling accusations at me I cannot guarantee that it will not end with the banhammer.

[ballisticwaffles]

I for one welcome the new overlords like the policy changes.

[Steve]

I am going to go ahead and lock this topic, I was able to restructure our team back (hopefully) but the new policies will stay up on place until further notice, so please, be respectful. 

[DZComposer]

Since everyone has had a chance to calm-down, the staff has decided to allow brony discussion again, with the explicit warning that further drama will not be tolerated. Note that in the future it will most likely be dealt with using bans instead of locking threads.

There is a new subforum called "The Picture House" for TV shows and movies. I even created a pony thread in it for you: . Also, unlike the Rec Room, the Picture House will actually increase your post count. Just don't get spammy, the staff ARE watching the thread.

Note that all things pony are to be kept in that thread. Anything that leaks out may be subject to moderation.

Also, don't gloat over this or you may find yourself on the receiving end of a banhammer.