Starfox Character Discussion

[madame bellatrix]

-see,now i agree with a series reboot and more character developement.as for the starfox team,here's my list:

 

Team starfox

 

krystal- starfox:cerinia chronicles! and if she was away from home,then there have to be other cerinans floating around out there and she should be able to find them with telepathy! she can track one to sauria,and follow them around,valid excuse to be a wanderer.also,what the hell happened to destroy a entire plante?! nobody is afraid of that? c'mon nintendo,fix my krystal,don't disrespect her like this.

 

fox- he took his dad's death in stride,and he doesn't mind being an unloved orphan in the least.at least let me see him pull out a picture and grieve every once in a while instead of hallucinations,or are they? (i personally think james is dead and gone)

 

falco-why are you an antisocial ass hole? and what kinda criminal activity did you and katt get up to before fox found you? and if the infamous mr.lombardi wasn't exactly a good guy,what kinda people does fox know? don't sound too squeaky clean to me

 

slippy-i like to say mention of fox and him in the kid years,why they're really budies and please elaborate on amanda.

 

peppy-old rabbit got some secrets,man.he knows alot and i suspect probably knows everything about everything that happened and is traumatized by something.wanna see the friend dynamic between the original starfox.i speculate pigma could've been jealous of him and james's friendship.why can worry about that in starfox:origins

 

pigma- is clearly a little nutty by starfox assault.i speculate that there was money trouble and jealousy involved,turning on your buddy and your home planet is a bit much for money.and what did he do to get kicked from starwolf? did he rat them out or something?

 

Team starwolf

 

wolf-sanybody else got the impression that he knows (knew) james mccloud? how did that happen,was he a mentor? okay,so your eye is busted,what happened?did james do it? was it an accident? and their called star wolf? is it a homage to star fox? why not call them something different? what was his relationship to starfox ,did wolf use to be good?(i bet peppy knows!)

 

leon-a psychopath,so we think.what is his relationship to wolf? he's clearly older than wolf,why is he not leading starwolf? why has he been here from the start? did he replace james as wolf's mentor? why is he still with starwolf all this time?what does wolf know about leon that we don't?

 

panther-who the hell are you?

 

-andrew-okay , i also agree with Drasiana on the Andrew bit,he's pretty clear cut and can be worked with .however,he probably knows something about andross that we dont,why else help a power hungry madman?

 

-i say fix it with an unlockable starwolf:origins extra,a little side piece within a game

 

 

 

Other characters

 

-andross-show us exactly what happened to him.how did he get into this mess? was he a dr. light turned proffessor hojo,or what?what's his story? i sense cornerian government conspiracy...

 

general pepper-this bastard has secrets.he the damn general! him and peppy were budies.also ,why not have andross killed instead of exild? were they friends before?they say he was a good guy,general pepper knows,i don't trust the old dog

 

bill-fox's other buddy,just say hi every once in a while,you know call him or something.not much else

 

fay,miyu- just be there!

 

katt-what is you and falco's deal? what are you doing now? why not turn over a new leaf?why didn't she join star fox?

 

fara-said she looks like fox's mom (non-canon apparantly),but that can be worked with

 

dash bowman- wtf? are you necessary? if so,show his relationship with andross more

 

cornerian government/lylat sysetm-oh,you justlove your mercenaries,don't you?where the hell are the cops in all this?and fox ,what the hell are you doing to ay bills other than shoot stuff? damn,even star wolf are known larcenists,bet they got more money than you

 

so many questions...

 

i think that it's really asking to much of nintendo though

 

now,for gameplay:

 

-mass effect+halo, with space battles ,starfox 64 style with upgrades.also,muiltiplayer story mode,player one fox,player two,whoever's necessary.sniper missions for falco,espionage/telepathy usage for krystal, for slippy,cover his ass while he does something vital like setting bombs and ship repairs and stuff.everybody has to do the flying thing.

 

-adding to this:everybody has a sidestory.like i said with krystal, stalking another cerininan who's sending off distress signals.falco should have run ins with old budies and leon (they seem to have a past). i

 

But of course this is asking for way too much...well,there's always fandom

[TrishaCat]

so i see you're quite the fan of the Twilight series

I am indeed, actually, though even I know I should be ashamed of liking the movies. I think. However I don't think that the characters are unfitting for each other at all. I think the main issue is that the main characters are lame. Super depressed emotionless girl obsessed with boy and obsessive boy.

 

Anyways, my thoughts that people don't need a reason to like each other aren't all that particularly unusual. Oftentimes people think and say things like that. An example would be in the tv show "Nekomonogatari". A boy is asking his little sister about love, and he asks why she fell in love with the boyfriend she has. She replies: "One reason or another. I really just did. I wondered if I loved him, felt I did, and realized I did. Something like that." And the boy replies "How vague could you get?" and She replies"Same for the reasons as well.You could make up loads of excuses like how he's so cool, nice, tall, rich, or whatever. You can come up with reasons like that, but they're all just lies. Lies you say to try to justify your feelings. Pretense, in other words. In the end, they're just excuses. You begin by concluding you're in love, then climb a ladder to reach that conclusion." and then later "I think you're pretty much in love if you always want to be with someone."

 

I think it was basically saying that people don't really have a reason for loving someone, they just do. Hence why I don't think one can say two characters do or don't have chemistry, sometimes. It's not really because of this show I think that way, I was just using it as an example.

 

 

 

 

 

On another note I'd really like to see the guys from Farewell, Beloved Falco again. They were a fun group.

I would like to see that group again as well. They were pretty cool indeed.

 

On a related note, I really love Falco as a character.

[Drasiana]

Dude, you're taking your relationship standards from media when this is literally the worst possible place to take them from and precisely why I have an issue with the relationship here to begin with. Media relationships are not accurate representations of real relationships and that's why they aren't very good most of the time. Uno pointed out Twilight as a joke because Twilight spends four books glorifying emotional codependency and abusive relationships. Star Fox really isn't significantly better in how contrived it is.

 

But I'll bite, if just to give you a contrary example from television: one of the most famous television romances in history was that of Mulder and Scully in The X-Files. It took them seven seasons and a movie to so much as kiss, and all that time was spent developing why they fit together as partners both business-wise and romantically. Critics heralded the chemistry of both the characters and actors as an unreplicated magic, fandom coined the phrase "shipping" and the insanity surrounding it persists to this day, a decade after the show ended. With properly written characters and chemistry who have a justification for being together, who are equals, you have a heralded several-decade long impact on pop culture and set an entirely new standard for a realistic and heartfelt portrayal of relationships.

 

Fox and Krystal get the benefit of some mediocre porn. Fox isn't even present in most of it.

 

Another reason why chemistry is necessary? Because otherwise, their relationship is straight up boring. It gives them nothing to do but gaze at one another and comes with the creepy implication that the female character is only there because she's obligated to fall in love with the protagonist like some kind of mandatory game upgrade. It's not only boring but completely condescending towards everyone involved.

 

edit: I think Falco's okay but the whole "he storms off to do his own thing" needs to stop in the series, it's getting kind of old, like they're trying to make Falco seem brooding and mysterious but we don't really have much of a reason for either. Just the tightening the rest of the characters need, I guess.

[unoservix]

I am indeed, actually, though even I know I should be ashamed of liking the movies. I think. However I don't think that the characters are unfitting for each other at all. I think the main issue is that the main characters are lame. Super depressed emotionless girl obsessed with boy and obsessive boy.

 

that is precisely what "lack of chemistry" is. Bella and Edward is what you get when you have a couple that has no chemistry.

 

and of course, if Bella and Edward is what your relationship is like, then your relationship is probably gonna suck. because unlike Bella and Edward, you won't be satisfied with just staring emotionlessly yet obsessively at each other.

[FK4]

Obviously Krystal She is Underated Underapreciated Star Fox's Future Wife And Britsh

[The Shaper]

Obviously Krystal She is Underated Underapreciated Star Fox's Future Wife And Britsh

It's widely accepted as fact around here that Krystal is not a very good character. This is mostly due to her not having a set personality, and the evidence for such either not being conclusive, or changing each game. So her being "underrated" is sort of the opposite position of what the fandom actually takes at large, and her being "under appreciated" is also not true. She is actually far more appreciated than someone as bland as her should be.

[unoservix]

but she's British

 

that changes everything

[Patch93]

Fox and Krystal get the benefit of some mediocre porn. Fox isn't even present in most of it.

 

Another reason why chemistry is necessary? Because otherwise, their relationship is straight up boring. It gives them nothing to do but gaze at one another and comes with the creepy implication that the female character is only there because she's obligated to fall in love with the protagonist like some kind of mandatory game upgrade. It's not only boring but completely condescending towards everyone involved.

 

Exactly! This is why I don't care for the whole Fox/Krystal pairing. At least Fox and Fara had some chemistry together, and it shows during a few moments in the comic.

[TrishaCat]

It's widely accepted as fact around here that Krystal is not a very good character. This is mostly due to her not having a set personality, and the evidence for such either not being conclusive, or changing each game. So her being "underrated" is sort of the opposite position of what the fandom actually takes at large, and her being "under appreciated" is also not true. She is actually far more appreciated than someone as bland as her should be.

From what I can tell, her personality is fairly consistent. I don't find her bland, as her personality isn't the problem, it is how she is used in the games that is the problems. She needs to do more to please people from what I can tell. Her personality itself is fine. It's that very little is done with it.

 

 

but she's British

 

that changes everything

THIS

...

Joking of course.

[Drasiana]

From what I can tell, her personality is fairly consistent.

 

Noooooooo

 

Krystal in Star Fox Adventures: tried to engage General Scales in a fistfight, tried to shoot down Andross, and her first words to Fox were a G-rated "fuck off". Is curious, investigative, and sympathetic to the helpless, but by her responses to Scales and Andross, she turns her empathy and anguish into anger. Also, does shit because she feels like it--she had no idea that the distress signal that led her to Sauria had anything to do with Cerinia, and by the way that plotline was dropped, it didn't.

 

Krystal in Star Fox Assault: The woman who shouted WE WILL NEVER KNEEL TO YOU at the gigantic floating alien ghost statue, armed with nothing but a staff after spending weeks trapped in a crystal, now spends the entire game being distressed about everything and being entirely subservient to Fox for no apparent reason. She never goes out two modes when communicating with other characters: she's either anxious or flirting. Furthermore her stupid random psychic powers actually crippled what were actually personality traits in Adventures. Her cleverness is no longer her figuring things out because she's smart, it's her ~magic powers~ giving her all the answers. She's no longer a sympathetic person, she's forced to feel the pain of others because of magic instead of understanding them because she's just a good person. The interesting aspects of her personality were stripped away to turn into a tool, for no reason I can determine other than to make her more "wifely" for Fox. Seriously, her major character moment--after a stage that didn't even have a boss fight--was a honeymoon joke. Not that the constant "Krystal is hawt hurr" jokes in Adventures were much better, but trimming away the assertive aspects of her personality for its sake is disconcerting at best.

 

Krystal in Star Fox Command: Literally changes based on what path you take. She fluctuates from completely emotionless and callous, to demure and proper, to headstrong and sassy, with infinite variations in between. She's not even consistent within a single game, how is she possibly consistent throughout the series?

 

People think that Krystal is consistent, but it's because their brain automatically snaps to a really basic character archetype based on a few of the traits she may appear to express. Actually comparing her interactions and actions between the games shows at least three very different characters being written. She is by no means the only character like this (Wolf is just as bad IMO) but the only consistent thing about her is that the games love finding creative new ways to objectify her.

[Arashikage]

It's actually quite funny the variations on Krystal's character there is.  But it's also funny how stupidly she reacts in most of the endings of Command.  Especially the Kursed ending(Which I've already ranted about).  It's as if she hasn't grown as a character at all.  

[Ala1n-J]

Another fun fact is how Fox himself has various portrayals throughout the series. In a nutshell :

- SNES era : according to the comics, a vengeful, daring and joking Robin Hood from space;

- SF64 : a young enthusiastic and obedient pilot who sounds like a soldier rather than a mercenary;

- Adventures : a kind-hearted, brave but grumpy mercenary;

- Assault : a boring, uncharismatic pilot who, again, doesn't say "mercenary" at all;

- Command : an emotional wreck who looks more like a teenager than a seasoned pilot.

Now I can understand the evolution between SF64 and Adventures, since eight years passed between those games in the canon track. But how can Fox change so drastically from Adventures to Assault in one year?!

I could write more about all the characters, but I'll do that another time.

[TCPeppyTc]

I think Fox/ Robinhood is a good analogy. Or maybe Fox/ Han solo. Good heared rougeish devil may care guy

[ballisticwaffles]

Wow, pretty much everything has been said. Why we hate Krystal, why she sucks, why she sucks harder than the previous point could ever hope to quantify, wow its all here!

 

Except WHY people still like her.

Sit down my children, and allow Dr. Waffles to explain to you why Emo *ahem* "badasses" are so popular despite their drastic character flaws. You see it begins in the rebellious awkward years of 13 through 16 where spontaneous 8th grader Syndrome, referred from now on as SES, emerges in most pubescent children. This disease is followed by the sudden revelation that the bearer of the disease is "smarter than everyone around them", sudden attraction to angsty and depressing figures that the afflicted believe to resemble themselves, and the use of artistic skills to draw OCs that closely resemble the diseased one's mental image of what Cloud Strife would look like if he was a Goth.

 

Unfortunately, SES is fatal only cured through the puberty stage ending.

 

But where i am going with this is that there is a reason that those with SES are attracted to those that wear all black and bitch about their petty problems. It is because the basic human mindset is to congregate, to find those like you and join with them in Instrumentality. SES drives the afflicted to connect with angsty, whiny adults who act more like those in a sewer tunnel chain smoking and pointing out startling revelations that "the government is evil", and "humanity sucks".

 

On the Internet, they are known as teenagers.

 

"Get to the point Waffles!" You shout, interrupting my tirade against those who slight me and ensuring i fail you on your next assignment.

 

So let us use Krystal for an example. Krystal, with the emotional complexity of a brain dead piece of Swai, is easy for these "teenagers" to connect with. With no emotional feelings except neanderthal grunts of "i hate everyone because i was dumped by my boyfriend" and resembling an angsty teenager due to the dark coloring and otherwise negative demeanor, she is easy to connect with. She can run around the galaxy with no duties, no responsibilities  and bitch and moan about all her problems without having to deal with people defending themselves. How often do you, presuming you all read fanfiction nearly as much as I, see Kursed screaming insults and depraved instructions for self sodomy and get away without so much as a retort?

 

This is to channel the authors general anger and hate in a healthy artistically way. But why is she so popular when plenty of other characters are written better and connect with more people than she?

 

Its because she has Boobs.

 

Deny me how you wish, a majority of people like Krystal because she has breasts. I postulate that Slippy would be 20X more adored if he had a heaping pair of chesticles. Its an unfortunate thing, but Krystal has literally nothing else going for her.

[Drasiana]

I dunno man, Krystal only "bitches and moans about her problems" in Command and to be honest, she's actually justified there. The horrible part of it is that Krystal is demonized by both the game and fandom for daring to react negatively to the fact that Fox fired her over a stupid, selfish reason and essentially abandoned her in an alien solar system--she didn't just "get dumped", she was fired and outcast from her own team in a solar system that she wasn't even from or familiar with just because Fox couldn't get his shit together. She is despised because she dares to both stand up for herself against something shitty that Fox (aka the Player Avatar) did to her, breaking out of the role of subservient wife-in-training and well, we can't have that, can we? Not to say it was an especially interesting route for a Star Fox game to take but I don't fault any animosity on her part.

 

Brooding!Krystal is the exact same as Falco was through the entire series, and Krystal is the only one who gets shit on for it. You're right about why, though: it's because she's the one with the tits.

 

Of course the socially-stunted neckbeard hoardes of Krystal fanboys would see red upon their favourite blue waifu doing something that doesn't cooperate with their fantasy.

 

I'd argue that Command!Krystal is actually a better character than Falco because unlike him, she has a reason to be pissed off at the rest of the cast.

[Ori]

[...]

 

But why is she so popular when plenty of other characters are written better and connect with more people than she?

 

It's because she has Boobs.

 

Deny me how you wish, a majority of people like Krystal because she has breasts. [...] It's an unfortunate thing, but Krystal has literally nothing else going for her.

 

+1 Confirm, and I'd be telling big fat lies if I ever said that wasn't true. While it's a known fact to everyone that she's a character either empty as the void of space or more flawed than... Oh, just about anything, being a character just there as a canon filler was already a reason to have her hated by the original canon supporters and the people who can see the blatant emptiness of meaning of Krystal there. Let's face it: she was never supposed to make part of that canon anyway. Krystal's original story was scrapped, and StarFox was clumsily (mis)fit into an already-set plot, leading to the abominations we have today known as Adventures, Assault and Command. But as Mr. Heavy Experimental Ballistics stated above, that's only half of the problem. The main aversion to the character isn't (completely) because of badly-constructed personality and cheap storyline, but instead, the perverted mindless pool of unlettered blabbering toxic sludge that we know as the Krystal Fandom (or the great majority of it) is what brings the character to under the rock bottom. And since it's common sense [?] what makes this fandom so bad, I could spend hours and hours straight mentioning, satirizing and parodying the fandom, but, nah.

 

But to put it simple: it's the horrible fanfiction writers writers, shameless self-proclaimed 'artists' and the super-mega-ultra-peta-multi+-ubercharged-nintendo-hard-hardcore 'fans' that "for some odd cocaine reason" have a **ckillion fetishes for Krystal.

It's noteworthy that it isn't only with her, as we have the undeniable existence of the eye-imploding Miyu, Fay, Katt, and so many other porn around (including males such as Fox or Wolf), not to mention fan-shipping. On an unrelated note, other series'/fandoms' characters also have the same kind of fanbase category in their respective fans. [Refer to SonAmy, Samus porn, Tails is a Girl, Zelda porn, all-out Furry porn, and most bizarrely, KrysTails]

 

Now as personally knowing some of these "hurr durr Imma Krystal fan" people (I.E. Me. Gee! Couldn't you tell?), it may sound weird but I really wouldn't mind her removal more than her presence being kept in the canon. (Maybe the former is for the best.) 

I personally find her figure of a considerable prettiness, but that's it. I don't have anything to comment on the character aesthetics beyond anything in the lines of 'I think Krystal is sorta pretty', meaning I don't go into "a raging hate b[bLEEP]er" in case I see a detailed depiction of Krystal, neither I get into an ultra-hardcore unstoppable rage mode when someone criticizes the character. I actually may go and side their argument if it's valid.

(And honestly I get quite disgusted by Krystal porn, but then again, I don't waste my time trying to reason with the primate creators, or even searching for said 'stuff'.)

What I'm saying is, even Krystal fans get to hate Krystal the way how she was depicted to-date, because:

 

-Mentioned personality development, or lack of, for that matter.

 

-No significant story participation in Adventures and Assault other than just being there, and we all know how that ended.

 

-Command's story participation was present: overused on that note, and extremely flawed.

 

-More I won't bother with now, but there are many.

 

Conclusion? Spare us the trouble of having a quasi-paradox and go back to where SF2 left off and fix this derail of a series, or give the characters at least decent defined traits and not some "Eaaaaugh, I hate life, universe, and everything else" half-finished character-thing that acts like the world has ended. (...When it actually has, but it wasn't shown and it isn't the main reason of the pathological emo trait.)

 

And that's what I have to say about Krystal at least. I might post about the other characters later on.

[Ala1n-J]

I'm guilty of being one of those Krystal-fans that have become tired of her official portrayals. I was eleven when I first saw her on the Adventures package art. At that time, I imagined I could play her in the game, just like Fox. Only a decade later did I get my hands on the game, and I found out that she gets stuck in a crystal (terrible pun) for the most part of the game. I was frustrated.

I like Krystal, and I can't deny that it has something to do with her looking sexy. But I'm tired of sexiness being her only asset in the series. I want her to play a part in the team, not just being there because Fox couldn't find a girlfriend on his own. Either we drop her or we retcon her so she can fit better the team and, to a bigger extend, Lylat in general. I made a redesign of her on dA here but to sum it up, here how it goes :
- her origins are integrated in Lylat (spoilers in the link, kind of);
- some elements of Dinosaur Planet that help to build her character and backstory have been added like Randorn being her adoptive father, other elements like magic and more or less the Krazoa thing have been dropped;
- to make her useful for the team, her telepathy has been dropped in favor of a new ability, found in nature : ultra violet vision, allowing her to spot invisible targets.

Except for the UV vision, this is mostly already existing elements or concepts brought together and put carefully to make something appealing. It's a matter of using wisely the right elements. As for her personality, I'd like having her Adventures portrayal brought back, with a hint of Command (as in too stubborn for her own good and having some doubts on Andross's exile) and a bit untamed (like when a wild animal encouters a human). I don't mind a relationship between Fox and Krystal, I just don't want to see an Assault Krystal impression again.

So basically, less of a waifu and more of an independant woman, independant not meaning lonely. But maybe that's too much asking for the guys who have a loooooong history of damsels in distress and thought it was ok to turn an independant, professionnal, badass bounty hunter woman into a brooding, incapable girl who cannot do anything without some random guy's approval.

So yeah, I agree Krystal needs a rework. But Starfox is not known for its awesome characters developments. And the rest of the cast needs some tweaks if you ask me :

- Fox : as I mentionned above, he is inconsistent in the whole series; he needs to have a set personality, preferably a mix between SNES and Adventures. He also needs to take a few steps away from the Cornerian Army, he's supposed to be a mercenary, not Pepper's laquay. SF64 marked how he was able to fight the grief of his father's disappearance, so what next? Maybe having his rivalry with Wolf explored, or him facing other difficulties (ok for some relationship problems, but never of Command's levels again).

- Falco : he keeps bitching everytime about the team for no reason, so why is he still here? If he doesn't like the people in Starfox, he can leave anytime! More money for the other members! Anyways, he must have a reason he hangs out with Fox&co. His troubled backstory should be developped as well. Also, if he's such an ace pilot, make him one! I was always surprised that in SF64's very first mission, he'd be shot down if you didn't help him (while he kept bitching about it). Falco, I don't care if you were chased by three fighters at a time, you are supposed to be on par with Fox, you can do better than that!

- Peppy : it is generally admitted that the old hare is the most fleshed out character of the games, and that's true. His Assault portrayal was quite great. He's the one character I wouldn't change too much. What I would like to see, though, is if he REALLY has to step out of the arwing and stay in the Great Fox, at least give us a better reason than just "he's too old for this". Perhaps Assault hinted us : committing a sacrifice twice? With little to no chance of surivival? At this point he has cancer and doesn't want to tell anybody.

- Slippy : Nintendo is guilty of obliterating his awesome engineer and virtuose tech-guy backstory by focusing on "LOOK! THE FROG HAS AN OBNOXIOUS VOICE! LOLOLOL!!" Though his voice in Assault was decent enough. His techwiz abilites must be brought into the spotlight. And if he's such a bad pilot, why is he still in an Arwing? The most advanced space fighter jet in the hand of a goofy batractian? That makes no sense! He could take Peppy's place in the Great Fox, supervising tech support (as sending rings) and analysing enemies as always (mind you, the Great Fox must have more powerful radars and instruments than the Arwing). His interactions with a sarcastic ROB could be hilarious.

- Miyu & Fay : be there. Please.

- Fara : she can still be brought back, even with Krystal. Some rivalry between the two vulpine girls, of what sort (more professionnal than romantic, please), can be interesting, but not as fanfiction writers depict it. I kinda explain my opinion on this Fara vs Krystal thing here.

I have other things in mind for the rest of the cast, but that'll be for later.

[Snys93]

Yes ladies and gentlemen, Starfox is sick. Whether or not Nintendo plans to reboot, put the ol' girl out of her misery or continue the torment with another tasteless game is anyone's guess.

[TrishaCat]

Noooooooo

 

Krystal in Star Fox Adventures: tried to engage General Scales in a fistfight, tried to shoot down Andross, and her first words to Fox were a G-rated "fuck off". Is curious, investigative, and sympathetic to the helpless, but by her responses to Scales and Andross, she turns her empathy and anguish into anger. Also, does shit because she feels like it--she had no idea that the distress signal that led her to Sauria had anything to do with Cerinia, and by the way that plotline was dropped, it didn't.

 

Krystal in Star Fox Assault: The woman who shouted WE WILL NEVER KNEEL TO YOU at the gigantic floating alien ghost statue, armed with nothing but a staff after spending weeks trapped in a crystal, now spends the entire game being distressed about everything and being entirely subservient to Fox for no apparent reason. She never goes out two modes when communicating with other characters: she's either anxious or flirting. Furthermore her stupid random psychic powers actually crippled what were actually personality traits in Adventures. Her cleverness is no longer her figuring things out because she's smart, it's her ~magic powers~ giving her all the answers. She's no longer a sympathetic person, she's forced to feel the pain of others because of magic instead of understanding them because she's just a good person. The interesting aspects of her personality were stripped away to turn into a tool, for no reason I can determine other than to make her more "wifely" for Fox. Seriously, her major character moment--after a stage that didn't even have a boss fight--was a honeymoon joke. Not that the constant "Krystal is hawt hurr" jokes in Adventures were much better, but trimming away the assertive aspects of her personality for its sake is disconcerting at best.

 

Krystal in Star Fox Command: Literally changes based on what path you take. She fluctuates from completely emotionless and callous, to demure and proper, to headstrong and sassy, with infinite variations in between. She's not even consistent within a single game, how is she possibly consistent throughout the series?

 

People think that Krystal is consistent, but it's because their brain automatically snaps to a really basic character archetype based on a few of the traits she may appear to express. Actually comparing her interactions and actions between the games shows at least three very different characters being written. She is by no means the only character like this (Wolf is just as bad IMO) but the only consistent thing about her is that the games love finding creative new ways to objectify her.

Distressed about everything in Assault? I played through the game two and a half times, and all I remember her doing in assault was helping kill the aparoids very poorly, in the same way all the other characters were useless. As far as the psychic powers go, while it was a bad idea and very random to give her psychic powers, those aren't why she was smart and understanding. I think she was smart and understanding and simply had those powers. I'm not sure how those personality traits can now be attributed to her psychic powers. I'd say more that those character traits might be why they decided to give her psychic powers, as it is a general archetype that a character like that would have psychic powers. That's not to say the personality comes from the powers, but rather the powers come from the personality. (not in the literal sense, but rather that she is given those powers due to her personality, and that personality, even now, cannot be attributed to those powers) Also, I don't think it makes her more wifely, but more useful as a part of the team. The psychic powers gives her more reason to be considered a unique member of the team, and thus altogether more useful. Not only that, but she's not more wifely; if anything, she's less wifely, as she's much more of a fighter and a real member of the team. I will say though, that the first part of this quote where you stated her personality in Adventures does make her seem much more real (real as a character) and much more fierce? (not the word I"m looking for, but I can't quite think of the word at the moment), so there are significant character changes, I will give you that. Still, some of her personality change (some) can be attributed to different companies working on the games and the amount of time that passed between Adventures and Assault, as people do tend to change over time, at least a little. 

 

Also, the dislike of Krystal for not having a part in the stories of the Starfox games doesn't make a whole lot of sense since Falco does little to nothing story wise, and everyone loves him (including myself). (Let's ignore for a moment that Farewell Beloved Falco exists) Also, keep in mind I"ve not played 64 or Command, or the original two NES games. If he has an important role in any of those, let me know.

 

@Ala1n-J:

I still don't get why Fox was made so childish in Adventures. I like to think that that isn't his personality, and that none of his personality in Adventures was actually how he acted, since his Assault personality seemed more real and made more sense to me.

[Drasiana]

Distressed about everything in Assault? I played through the game two and a half times, and all I remember her doing in assault was helping kill the aparoids very poorly, in the same way all the other characters were useless.

 

Two whole times! When I say "distressed about everything" I'm saying that the majority of her dialogue revolved around her saying "oh no, Fox!" or "oh no, all the poor wounded people we never see or interact with!". She seems timid and anxious, which as I pointed out is THE EXACT OPPOSITE of how she was in Adventures. This has nothing to do with her not being able to shoot things, it's about her personality reversal.

 

As far as the psychic powers go, while it was a bad idea and very random to give her psychic powers, those aren't why she was smart and understanding. I think she was smart and understanding and simply had those powers. I'm not sure how those personality traits can now be attributed to her psychic powers. I'd say more that those character traits might be why they decided to give her psychic powers, as it is a general archetype that a character like that would have psychic powers. That's not to say the personality comes from the powers, but rather the powers come from the personality. (not in the literal sense, but rather that she is given those powers due to her personality, and that personality, even now, cannot be attributed to those powers)

 

Saying her personality stems entirely from her powers is making her entire personality artificial. It is a tool, like her powers, and nothing about it is a genuine reflection of her as a person. "General archetypes"? That doesn't mean anything. And again, they wildly changed her personality for Assault, so they didn't look at Adventures and go "golly, this girl sure has a PSYCHIC personality!", they just made a stupid assumption based on the Krazoa's magic (I guess) and rewrote her into a doting midwife whose wings were clipped in that nothing she now did stemmed from her own personal choices but from the ~Magick Otherworldly Whims~ of her bullshit "powers".

 

Also, I don't think it makes her more wifely, but more useful as a part of the team. The psychic powers gives her more reason to be considered a unique member of the team, and thus altogether more useful. Not only that, but she's not more wifely; if anything, she's less wifely, as she's much more of a fighter and a real member of the team.

 

Guys, how many times does it have to be reiterated that her powers do fucking nothing in the game? She's not useful, she's not unique (any "useful" things she can do are done better by Peppy), and I'm not sure how you look at the woman whose existence now entirely revolves around what Fox does or wants her to do, compare it to the woman whose existence used to involved trying to get into a fistfight with a nine-foot tall hook-handed Nazi lizard, and say that the former is "more of a fighter".

 

Again, yeah, she was shoehorned into the shitty "damsel in distress" role in Adventures but that makes it even more amazing that she still managed to be a better fucking character in a game that she was only in about 10% of.

 

 Still, some of her personality change (some) can be attributed to different companies working on the games and the amount of time that passed between Adventures and Assault, as people do tend to change over time, at least a little.

 

These are the two worst excuses for any and all of the personality changes between any of the games, for Fox or Krystal or anyone.

 

For one, if your writers can't write characters consistently between games, hire new writers. Franchises hop medium and personnel all the time and manage not to become horrible clusterfucks of mismatched personalities so the absolute bare-ass minimum we can ask about Star Fox is the same. "People change" over time, sure, but they don't magically become the complete opposite of who they were in about every regard within about the timeframe of a year, which is the length of the gap between Adventures and Assault. There are no justifications for any between-game personality changes other than shit writing, and any attempt to explain why is shoddy headcanon that this fandom really needs to learn to stop conflating with what actually happened in the series.

 

 

Also, the dislike of Krystal for not having a part in the stories of the Starfox games doesn't make a whole lot of sense since Falco does little to nothing story wise, and everyone loves him (including myself). (Let's ignore for a moment that Farewell Beloved Falco exists) Also, keep in mind I"ve not played 64 or Command, or the original two NES games. If he has an important role in any of those, let me know.

 

Let's not ignore that Farewell Beloved Falco exists because it's an integral part of the canon where Falco and Katt get twice as much character development as anyone else in the series while explaining why Falco isn't in the majority of Adventures. Nice try, asking us to ignore the thing that proves you wrong though.

 

His big character moment in Assault was when he crashes a fucking Arwing into an army of robots in order to save Fox, by the way. Krystal's "big character moment" is the honeymoon joke. But please keep arguing about how she's "less wifely" in Assault.

 

Even then it's weird that you're bringing it up because I literally just said almost this exact thing, even though the things he's excused for while Krystal is not are really only applicable in Command, which is sort of a weird outlier in that it's non-canon but everyone in it gets (really badly-done) character development. It's inconsistent with the rest of the series so it's a little hard to examine it within the context of the three games that are canon.

 

People whine about Krystal being an "emo bitch", for example, when Falco does the exact same thing without repercussion. Star Wolf is almost as inconsistent between games as she is. However what separates them is that Krystal doesn't even fit into the universe: her entire existence is a big confusing question mark so the rest of the badly-written bullshit surrounding her is just more obvious than it would be with the other characters. She's just an extra swollen thumb between a pair of broken hands.

 

The fact that other characters are written badly doesn't mean she's somehow written less badly herself, anyway.

[TrishaCat]

Please, try to relax. You seem agitated. I don't mean to bother you.

First, I figure that having played it twice was a bit of a big deal considering I own games that I bought months ago that I haven't even bothered playing once (Tomb Raider, Final Fantasy IX).

Second, as far as Krystal being distressed all the time goes there are parts where she says things like "We WILL save Sauria"(which, while around the same part that she does say something in distress fearing for the dinosaurs of Sauris, isn't specifically distress but rather determination) or something to the effect of wanting to defend Fox in battle. 

As far as the psychic powers go, fair point and I'll give you that. However, are you absolutely certain that her powers aren't the reason that health guages appear during some battles. Yes, Slippy does this with many boss fight, but, while I've said it before here I don't believe anyone said anything about it, the health guage for some boss fights appears only with Krystal having survived. I could be wrong, and in fact, after a bit of research, I probably am, but can anyone confirm this? If I am wrong, then you definitely have your point.

I understand that in Adventures, despite having been a damsel in distress stuck in a crystal for most of the game, that she still did things like go up against a giant lizard. However, I can't get over her having been a damsel in distress. I don't think of her as much more than that in that game. In Assault, not because of anything that occurred in the storyline or cutscenes, but rather because of a few lines of dialogue and the fact that throughout the gameplay she actual fought and killed enemies, I am under the impression that she seemed like more of a legitimate fighter and member of the team rather than just a girlfriend for Fox. A friend of mine has told me that games shouldn't have cutscenes; he thinks details should be told through gameplay, and as such, when used to think about Starfox, I'll take that stance (though most of his ideas I hate and I actually love cutscenes in video games. He feels they take away from immersion)

As far as the changing companies goes, that's actually what I was saying; that the games don't have good writing. I believe this was in part due to the company switches though. Yes, all that is is an excuse, but it shouldn't be ignored. While some games turn out well even when given to different companies, others don't.The only one I know of is the Zelda franchise when Nintendo occasionally gives the game to Capcom. Look at Duke Nukem: It's been off and on hiatus for years, has switched between multiple developers, and how did it turn out? I've heard that the game is horrible. Another example is Metroid Other M. Other Metroid games were considered great! (And admittedly, the Prime series was given to Retro Studios, which did a very good job) Other M is hated for many reasons, one of them being what they did with Samus. Samus now worked for a team, got out of her armor, and didn't use all of her weapons and equipment at first, not because they were damaged like in previous games, but because she was ordered not to. Giving games to different companies gives varying results, possibly because the company hasn't been working with the games and doesn't know everything they should about them. I won't deny the existent of just plain bad writers, and to be honest, Namco, having done Star Fox Assault, probably doesn't have many good writers, being Namco.

Why not ignore Farewell Beloved Falco? It wasn't a Starfox game. In all the games Falco doesn't do much, so he could just vanish, poof, and not much would be different. Falco may have saved Fox in Assault when he was surrounded by robots, but that scene was extremely short and without much impact. Before you say anything, the same could be said for the scene on Sauria with Fox and Krystal. Personally, that was my favorite scene because it gave me a few laughs, confirmed there to be a relationship between Fox and Krystal, and allowed me to see Tricky again, who, despite what everyone says, I didn't find all that annoying in Adventures. Tricky was like Navi and Zelda; everyone hates Navi, and yet I don't. I don't see anything all that annoying with those sorts of characters. Tricky could even be amusing at times. 

Krystal was emo? 

And while the other characters being written badly doesn't make her not written badly, it does still seem odd to me that everyone looks at her rather than the other characters for being badly written. As for me, I don't hate any of them for the writing. I only have issues with Slippy, and that's because I have to constantly save him, his voice, his look, and his inability to ever seem serious, even when he is serious. And I don't even hate him.

 

However, I'll admit what I say about characters doesn't have a whole lot of merit: I don't really consider characters to be very important in things. My interests in games are the story first, and then the gameplay, and then the music, and so on. Characters aren't something that's ever bothered me, as I rarely hate a characters. I either love them or don't really have an opinion, and if I love them its for whatever personality I see in them, and not for how useful or they are.

The friend I mentioned earlier has told me in the past that everything in a tv show, and I suppose it could be applied to games, must serve a purpose for being there. My question is why. Why must every character serve a legitimate purpose? Simply having another character exist alone gives people another character to attach to (or hate, depending upon the person and the character).

 

EDIT:

I've realized that almost all this criticism is specifically directed at Assault. 

[Ala1n-J]

@Ala1n-J:

I still don't get why Fox was made so childish in Adventures. I like to think that that isn't his personality, and that none of his personality in Adventures was actually how he acted, since his Assault personality seemed more real and made more sense to me.

 

The game itself was maybe the most light-hearted one in the series, so it doesn't help, that's true. But he's thrown onto a world which mechanics differ from the rest of Lylat, he cannot use his blaster, he has an urgent need of cash for his team and he's stuck with Slippy's rival in the "most annoying voice" contest. I can understand his behaviour in Adventures, and I find it more interesting than his Assault incarnation because it was a good mix between qualities and flaws. I also think his personality could be a way to picture the starfox fan playing this game saying "What the hell am I doing on this weird planet?!"

His Assault persona would have made more sense... for a soldier, not a mercenary. He doesn't have a hint of deviance, seems too square and too polished for a mercenary who's been roaming the galaxy for more than 9 years. In that game, Fox sounded inexperienced, he could be a recruit or a young soldier put in command of a squad, that would have been the same. But he's supposed to be a seasoned mercenary pilot, so that is kinda problematic. He also seems astonished and lifeless whenever Wolf appears, as all he says at these times are basically : "Wolf!" "Oh!" "Uh!". It's a bit exaggerated, but for someone who sees his archrival who vowed to skin him, that's a bit "meh". That would give an explanaion to Krystal constantly trying to get laid with Fox, because without it, one could thing there is something going on between Fox and Wolf.

Speaking of Fox and Krystal's relationship in Assault :

 

for the scene on Sauria with Fox and Krystal. Personally, that was my favorite scene because it gave me a few laughs, confirmed there to be a relationship between Fox and Krystal

 

That was only one scene. Building a relationship takes more than just one scene. Sure there are many characters to deal with, so all the game cannot turn around the two vulpines. That's where the dialogues and other cutscenes must do that job, showing us their relationship and building it as it progresses throughout the game. Unfortunately all we got is Krystal saying "I love you, Fox!!" and Fox monotously answering her with "Um, yeah, Krystal." You've got to admit that's not enough to make their relationship interesting.

 

As far as the psychic powers go, fair point and I'll give you that. However, are you absolutely certain that her powers aren't the reason that health guages appear during some battles. Yes, Slippy does this with many boss fight, but, while I've said it before here I don't believe anyone said anything about it, the health guage for some boss fights appears only with Krystal having survived. I could be wrong, and in fact, after a bit of research, I probably am, but can anyone confirm this? If I am wrong, then you definitely have your point.

 

Since you haven't played SF64, here's an important detail : in that game, bosses have an optional health gauge appearing when you fight them. Who's responsible for that? Mr. Slippy himself! And he also is in Assault. Whenever you hear "Enemy shield analysed!" or "Data analysis complete! Here it comes!", it's Slippy. Nothing to do with Krystal and her telepathic powers.

 

Why not ignore Farewell Beloved Falco? It wasn't a Starfox game.

 

It might not be a game, but it was published by Nintendo themselves. They agreed to publish this story, even if it has some plotholes and discontinuity problems with Adventures. Also, this comics alone has more character development for Falco and Katt than any of the Starfox games. Much like the Nintendo Power comics in the SNES-era, when not only did they have character developments, but also developped the game's story when it originally could stand in a few lines. So I don't think we can ignore those pieces of work, just because they aren't games.

 

However, I'll admit what I say about characters doesn't have a whole lot of merit: I don't really consider characters to be very important in things. My interests in games are the story first, and then the gameplay, and then the music, and so on. Characters aren't something that's ever bothered me, as I rarely hate a characters. I either love them or don't really have an opinion, and if I love them its for whatever personality I see in them, and not for how useful or they are.

The friend I mentioned earlier has told me in the past that everything in a tv show, and I suppose it could be applied to games, must serve a purpose for being there. My question is why. Why must every character serve a legitimate purpose? Simply having another character exist alone gives people another character to attach to (or hate, depending upon the person and the character).

 

I find it hard to think that characters are not important and at the same time put the story as your #1 criteria for games. Characters and story are intertwinded. Without a story, characters are just there, doing stuff without meaning. Without characters, you could just learn a story like you read a history book, but not experience it. Characters give you the needed anchor to get into a story. I presonally think characters are important just as the story can be, because if I'm stuck playing a character I don't like or stand, I won't fully enjoy the story and the game as a whole, even if it's good.

And yes, everyone has a part to play whatever it is a key element in the whole story or a reason for the hero(in)'s actions. Without a purpose for the story's development, those characters would just be waste of space and time, just walking here without being of any use for the hero(in) or the story whatsoever.

Maybe Dras can explain it better than me, though.

Edited April 28, 2013 by Ala1n-J

[Talyl Landmaster]

Hey. So, anyone interested (Even though he is the child of SF: Command) in see more out of Marcus's story arc?

[CrypticQuery]

Hey. So, anyone interested (Even though he is the child of SF: Command) in see more out of Marcus's story arc?

 

 

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I don't want to see any more characters unless the original group can get their shit together long enough to have proper characterization and story arcs.

[Talyl Landmaster]

 

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I don't want to see any more characters unless the original group can get their shit together long enough to have proper characterization and story arcs.

Oh coarse. But I honestly think, if done right, Marcus could be an interesting character.