Do some of the Star Fox characters have psychological dilemas?

[Talyl Landmaster]

*NOTE: I know these characters don't really have these conditions, this is just a study and an idea (which I know is a flawed idea) about the characters as a means to say YES or NO and dive deeper into the story and characters.  Over the top theories=explanation of why its right or wrong=further understanding of the story

Can you make connections and find similarities between the Star Fox characters and everyday complex human thinking and dilemmas?

Yeah, I know, not a happy topic. But have you ever wondered what makes the characters from Star Fox act the way they do? For example, this is how I feel about some of the characters:

Fox McCloud: It is quite possible that McCloud, like Batman (for example), has an unhealthy obsession with keeping the Star Fox team alive due to his father's death. How can we tell?

 

- He decides to take over as the leader of Star Fox team (even though he didn't finish his education at the Cornerian flight academy and it would make more sense if Peppy became the leader

- He wanted to get revenge on Andross

- He cannot stand failing under any situation

- At the end of Star Fox: Assault, the Aparoid queen pretends to be Fox's dad, telling him to stop fighting, and to no longer fret over fighting for him. But Fox refuses, realizing that his father told him to "Never give up".

- There is no conclusion whether Fox's dad, at the end of the 64, is really him, a ghost, or even a figure of his imagination. It could very well be that Fox just thought him up

- In the G-Zero ending of Star Fox: Command, Fox goes through a depression over the separation of his team

 

This is just an example. Other characters from the series, like Falco and Wolf, might also have their own dilemmas. Tell me what you think. What do you see through the characters on this subject. Do you agree/disagree (and why)? Is there anything I made a mistake on or overlooked? I am curious to know.

*UPDATE

Question: Is is possible that Wolf is both a sociopath and maybe even bi-polar? (Not on a literal sense, but on a similar content of his personality and his rate of change in emotions based on whether or not he gets his way)

*UPDATE 2

Based on further thinking, perhaps the reason Wolf can change his emotions quickly because he is not only impatient, but perhaps he is used to getting what he wants. What do you think?

[Drasiana]

Fox's need to live up to James' legacy was fulfilled in 64 because it was his character arc. Like, when he's looking for James, Peppy asks him if anything is wrong, and he simply replies "Everything's fine". It was a subtle, effective, bittersweet way to wrap up that plot.The only reason it keeps showing up is because the writers are too lazy to find a different personal conflict to give him. It's not building on the story of 64, it's just constantly repeating it.

 

I'd like them to pay more attention to Krystal and the whole "burden of being the last survivor of your destroyed civilization" thing as well as Andrew and his inferiority complex and desperation to fill a role that he can't.

[Talyl Landmaster]

Fox's need to live up to James' legacy was fulfilled in 64 because it was his character arc. Like, when he's looking for James, Peppy asks him if anything is wrong, and he simply replies "Everything's fine". It was a subtle, effective, bittersweet way to wrap up that plot.The only reason it keeps showing up is because the writers are too lazy to find a different personal conflict to give him. It's not building on the story of 64, it's just constantly repeating it.

 

I'd like them to pay more attention to Krystal and the whole "burden of being the last survivor of your destroyed civilization" thing as well as Andrew and his inferiority complex and desperation to fill a role that he can't.

Krystal's back story is used as a way to disguise the fact that she has little to no personality other than the female of the group. It's a plot device and nothing more.

[Drasiana]

Hence why I said it's a thing they SHOULD explore. Not a thing they HAVE explored.

 

For what it's worth Krystal was a lot more interesting in Dinosaur Planet as a well-developed character. Her backstory in Adventures isn't so much a "plot device" (it isn't even that because it adds nothing to the plot), just a tiny remaining scrap of the original game that made no sense in the context of the update.

[Talyl Landmaster]

Hence why I said it's a thing they SHOULD explore. Not a thing they HAVE explored.

 

For what it's worth Krystal was a lot more interesting in Dinosaur Planet as a well-developed character. Her backstory in Adventures isn't so much a "plot device" (it isn't even that because it adds nothing to the plot), just a tiny remaining scrap of the original game that made no sense in the context of the update.

I would have preferred her original character design in the beta of Dinosaur Planet. Not only did Rareware have her covered up more, it seemed like she contributed more than in the final version, Star Fox: Adventures.

[Drasiana]

Well, yeah. She was the main character, duel-protagonist with Sabre.

 

Question: Is is possible that Wolf is both a sociopath and maybe even bi-polar?

 

Where would you justify this in the games? At all?

 

Characters don't need to fall into the narrow perimeters of Hollywoodified mental illness in order to be interesting.

[Talyl Landmaster]

Well, yeah. She was the main character, duel-protagonist with Sabre.

 

 

Where would you justify this in the games? At all?

 

Characters don't need to fall into the narrow perimeters of Hollywoodified mental illness in order to be interesting.

Oh coarse not. The purpose of these topics is not to change or to make up personalities of already made characters, but more as a study, a way of diving into these characters and get a better understanding of the story. Whether these predictions are correct or not (which I know these psychological condition is and should not be implied in future stories), you still get to learn more about these characters, their motives, interests, perspectives and beliefs. Sometimes using these rational or over-the-top theories, we can claim whether or not its possible that these situations are possible, and through THAT, we can learn more about them and ask more questions about them with fresh minds and a clean slate. You see, its all about using perspective to feul intelligent thinking. You see this all the time in politics, social/religious discussions, schools, stories and even games. That is the purpose of my posts.

Of coarse not. The purpose of these topics is not to change or to make up personalities of already made characters, but more as a study, a way of diving into these characters and get a better understanding of the story. Whether these predictions are correct or not (which I know these psychological condition is and should not be implied in future stories), you still get to learn more about these characters, their motives, interests, perspectives and beliefs. Sometimes using these rational or over-the-top theories, we can claim whether or not its possible that these situations are possible, and through THAT, we can learn more about them and ask more questions about them with fresh minds and a clean slate. You see, its all about using perspective to fuel intelligent thinking. You see this all the time in politics, social/religious discussions, schools, stories and even games. That is the purpose of my posts.

[The Shaper]

I see no reason why Wolf could conceivably have any  bi-polar traits or be sociopathic. He holds a grudge against the McCloud family which is why he has such animosity toward Fox, and everything else to him is just business. His business doesn't involve working for the good guys unless necessary, but that doesn't make him a sociopath or bi-polar.

[Drasiana]

Actually tacking "mental disorders" onto characters--often an extremely loose and uninformed version of them--is typically the "easy way out" for people trying to characterize them. That isn't intelligent thinking, it's laziness. A mental disorder is also a whole separate ballgame from general character complexities and shouldn't be considered synonymous because it gives a damaging, generally incorrect impression of what mental disorders actually are. There's really no indication in the games that Wolf has a mental disorder so trying to assign him one is a condescending simplification of personality traits trimmed and shoehorned into a stereotypical impression of what said disorder happens to be.

 

The trick to developing good character arcs and getting into the heads of these characters is to start with, well, the characters. Not built-from-the-ground fanfiction representations of them, because at that point, they aren't the character you're trying to write, it's an OC with their name slapped onto it.

 

Star Fox characters as they're presented are extremely basic and lacking in proper development but that doesn't mean that they don't give us a few points to work off of. We like these characters because the basics of what we're shown of them are actually endearing and interesting, they're just never utilized properly.

 

People like Wolf because he's a likeably gruff, dubiously-motived asshole rival who maybe has a good side you see now and then. You can build upon why he's an asshole or why he's a rival but suddenly throwing a bunch of weird outside factors into the mix isn't going to make him more interesting.

[Talyl Landmaster]

I see no reason why Wolf could conceivably have any  bi-polar traits or be sociopathic. He holds a grudge against the McCloud family which is why he has such animosity toward Fox, and everything else to him is just business. His business doesn't involve working for the good guys unless necessary, but that doesn't make him a sociopath or bi-polar.

 

Interesting. Wolf probably isn't in any way bi-polar (I just thought that he changes mood quite quickly depending on whether or not he gets his way), however, I thought he could be somewhat of a sociopath (Like Professor Moriarty from Sherlock Holmes) considering the fact that he not only doesn't care if he harms others (even doing things like fire his teammates without a blink of an eye), but almost seems like he LIKES to mess with Star Fox. I'm not saying he LEGITIMATELY has this condition, just that its possible that you can note similarities between their personalities and these real life conditions. Sometimes, people do in stories to develop characters.

[Talyl Landmaster]

Actually tacking "mental disorders" onto characters--often an extremely loose and uninformed version of them--is typically the "easy way out" for people trying to characterize them. That isn't intelligent thinking, it's laziness. A mental disorder is also a whole separate ballgame from general character complexities and shouldn't be considered synonymous because it gives a damaging, generally incorrect impression of what mental disorders actually are. There's really no indication in the games that Wolf has a mental disorder so trying to assign him one is a condescending simplification of personality traits trimmed and shoehorned into a stereotypical impression of what said disorder happens to be.

 

The trick to developing good character arcs and getting into the heads of these characters is to start with, well, the characters. Not built-from-the-ground fanfiction representations of them, because at that point, they aren't the character you're trying to write, it's an OC with their name slapped onto it.

 

Star Fox characters as they're presented are extremely basic and lacking in proper development but that doesn't mean that they don't give us a few points to work off of. We like these characters because the basics of what we're shown of them are actually endearing and interesting, they're just never utilized properly.

 

People like Wolf because he's a likeably gruff, dubiously-motived asshole rival who maybe has a good side you see now and then. You can build upon why he's an asshole or why he's a rival but suddenly throwing a bunch of weird outside factors into the mix isn't going to make him more interesting.

Like I said, I am not trying to re-write the characters, I am trying to get people to either say "yes" or "no" to these theories in order to start thinking about these characters and understand them better. Its not to blind them or start any "brainless fan-fics". Of COARSE I know these characters don't have these conditions. They are merely ideas used to start conversations and smart analysis. I know the fan base is smart enough to know these characters are not psychotic, just trying to get people to talk about it so we ALL can learn something new about the story through analysis.

[Drasiana]

You're not trying to rewrite them but you're bringing up strange "theories" for them that aren't justified by the games at all. And to be honest, in order to properly flesh out these characters, aspects of them DO need to be rewritten--at least in terms of universal role or relationships--as some of those are contradicted even in the canon. That doesn't mean stripping them of what made them them however.

 

I'm not even sure what you're trying to argue here.

 

(even doing things like fire his teammates without a blink of an eye)

 

You don't need to be a sociopath to fire someone, especially someone like Pigma. Andrew left on his own.

 

Being callous or sadistic isn't an indicator of being a sociopath either. There are multiple reasons anyone can be any of these things and trying to peg it on a media-influenced idea of what a mental disorder is is quite possibly the laziest way to do so.

 

I always saw Wolf as a bit of an anti-establishment, sorta-philosophical dude who allied with Venom because for whatever reason he disagreed with the Cornerian rule, but didn't ever truly side with Venom either. He has his own perception of what the world should be and his actions are more to further his personal agenda than assisting any of the warmongers he probably sees as lesser than him for their adhesion to black and white philosophies. He clearly respects Fox to some degree but is put off by him due to what he perceives, perhaps, as blind optimism or trust, plus whatever ambiguous thing happened in their backstory that Wolf is still clearly pissy about. I don't think he expects his actions to necessarily instigate change, his agenda is more to do what he wants without being bound to the rules of a specific government or ideology because he sees flaws in all of them.

 

It's vague, but far more interesting than "uhhhhh he's a sociopath".

[Vulvokunvrii]

Well your fox theory sounds pretty neat and makes som sense, bu as for Wolf, he seems to be like Gary from Pokemon.

He's a dick to Fox for a while and then later in the assault game, he actually turns out to be an okay guy-almost in denial becasue due to Anfross fianlly being defeated, he's out of a job, and is now a merc, so he's technically neutral and no longer really evil, so he's more of an anti hero like Seto Kaiba from Yuigoh. He's a "good guy", but he denies it and throws up walls of excuses so he doesn't open up who he really is or wants to be to anyone. But yeah, neat theory.

[Talyl Landmaster]

You're not trying to rewrite them but you're bringing up strange "theories" for them that aren't justified by the games at all. And to be honest, in order to properly flesh out these characters, aspects of them DO need to be rewritten--at least in terms of universal role or relationships--as some of those are contradicted even in the canon. That doesn't mean stripping them of what made them them however.

 

I'm not even sure what you're trying to argue here.

 

 

 

You don't need to be a sociopath to fire someone, especially someone like Pigma. Andrew left on his own.

 

Being callous or sadistic isn't an indicator of being a sociopath either. There are multiple reasons anyone can be any of these things and trying to peg it on a media-influenced idea of what a mental disorder is is quite possibly the laziest way to do so.

 

I always saw Wolf as a bit of an anti-establishment, sorta-philosophical dude who allied with Venom because for whatever reason he disagreed with the Cornerian rule, but didn't ever truly side with Venom either. He has his own perception of what the world should be and his actions are more to further his personal agenda than assisting any of the warmongers he probably sees as lesser than him for their adhesion to black and white philosophies. He clearly respects Fox to some degree but is put off by him due to what he perceives, perhaps, as blind optimism or trust, plus whatever ambiguous thing happened in their backstory that Wolf is still clearly pissy about. I don't think he expects his actions to necessarily instigate change, his agenda is more to do what he wants without being bound to the rules of a specific government or ideology because he sees flaws in all of them.

 

It's vague, but far more interesting than "uhhhhh he's a sociopath".

1. My argument here is that I'm putting over the top theories in so that people can criticize and talk about them, and therefor learn something from each other. I'm not trying to prove that I'm right.

2. I'm not saying these conditions are direct with these character's personalities, what my topic was "Are there SIMILARITIES?"

[Snys93]

I automatically thought of Falco. Theres a guy with issues.

[Drasiana]

1. My argument here is that I'm putting over the top theories in so that people can criticize and talk about them, and therefor learn something from each other. I'm not trying to prove that I'm right.

2. I'm not saying these conditions are direct with these character's personalities, what my topic was "Are there SIMILARITIES?"

 

You put the over-the-top theories for people to criticize, I criticized them, and now you're getting defensive of them. And no. No, there aren't similarities at all and anyone who knows anything about mental illness/condition that didn't obtain their information from Hollywood would know that.

 

I think the only character in the series that could legit have a mental disorder based on what we know is Leon, but even then he seems like he has "generic crazy disease" rather than anything that exists.

[The Shaper]

Due to Peppy's age, it's possible he may be going senile, since:

[Talyl Landmaster]

You put the over-the-top theories for people to criticize, I criticized them, and now you're getting defensive of them. And no. No, there aren't similarities at all and anyone who knows anything about mental illness/condition that didn't obtain their information from Hollywood would know that.

 

I think the only character in the series that could legit have a mental disorder based on what we know is Leon, but even then he seems like he has "generic crazy disease" rather than anything that exists.

Its not your opinion that I was being defensive about, you have every right to say I'm wrong, you just seemed kind of, rude about it, the way you said about it, and I do know more about real life disorders than just outside Hollywood. I have plenty of friends who have studied the field.

So, my argument was not your opinion, I was defending  my intents and knowledge of the subject. I see plenty of other people who are telling me I'm wrong and are being polite about it.

[Drasiana]

Sorry if I came off as rude, but inaccurate portrayals of mental illness and using them as a lazy writing fallback in attempt to make your stories "dark" is something that pisses me off to no end because of all the real-life damage it does. Saying "hey what mental disorder would [x] have" in the same tone as you'd say "I wonder what [x]'s favourite colour is" is wildly insensitive. Real people actually do have these disorders that people are tacking onto characters as if they were a fancy clothing article, and in general, Star Fox is just not a mature enough setting to properly handle portrayals of real disorders. At least not yet.

 

I'd ask if you'd feel as comfortable about making this topic were about physical disabilities/illnesses instead, but the fandom's already going insane with the stupid "robot legs" thing so that might be a moot point.

 

And poor Peppy. Only 50 and getting so many "old person" jokes D:

[Talyl Landmaster]

Ok. That's fine. So yeah, I probably worded this topic wrong and everything, and I'm not trying to put these characters under titles. I have a good respect for them. And I didn't think that the general public would actually go along with this (and I didn't want them to). I just used this topic as a way for people to get into a character study. It was just a way to start a conversation about character development, not as a way to conclude that ANY of these characters had these disorders. Though it definitely is worded like that isnt it?

The goal was not to conclude they had disorders, the goal was to talk about their personalities. And I apologize for the obvious miscommunication.

[Drasiana]

That is a-okay friend.

 

As far as general character psychologies go I think Peppy is actually the most interesting so far. He has a sad sort of wisdom around him that makes him an endearing character and his arc in Assault is probably the most well-done story arc in the entire series. This is a guy who was betrayed by one friend and had to see his best friend die, then raise his son knowing full well that history could repeat itself. Then when he tries to retire, he finds he really can't do it, because what he thought was a job was a lot more important and integral to him as a person--and the people that he cared about--than he thought. Peppy's a good guy and one badass bunny.

 

On that note I want to know more about Pigma. "Motivated by greed" is always an explanation and it doesn't really need to be more than that but his motivations in Assault are kind of bizarre and I want to know how the heck he wound up working with dudes as cool as James and Peppy to begin with. The mustache-twirling evildoer he turned into seems like he would've had HI I AM EVIL tattooed to his forehead right from the beginning.

[Talyl Landmaster]

That is a-okay friend.

 

As far as general character psychologies go I think Peppy is actually the most interesting so far. He has a sad sort of wisdom around him that makes him an endearing character and his arc in Assault is probably the most well-done story arc in the entire series. This is a guy who was betrayed by one friend and had to see his best friend die, then raise his son knowing full well that history could repeat itself. Then when he tries to retire, he finds he really can't do it, because what he thought was a job was a lot more important and integral to him as a person--and the people that he cared about--than he thought. Peppy's a good guy and one badass bunny.

 

On that note I want to know more about Pigma. "Motivated by greed" is always an explanation and it doesn't really need to be more than that but his motivations in Assault are kind of bizarre and I want to know how the heck he wound up working with dudes as cool as James and Peppy to begin with. The mustache-twirling evildoer he turned into seems like he would've had HI I AM EVIL tattooed to his forehead right from the beginning.

Pigma always seemed to me as the comic relief goon. If someone can make an interesting character out of him, than I applaud him/her.

[Drasiana]

Yeah he does work as that. I suppose it falls apart more when you ask why James and Peppy worked with a guy who was clearly an untrustworthy stock villain, even if it isn't making Pigma a super psychologically profound character, the others still needed to benefit from his inclusion somehow. There's just no obvious conclusion as to what that benefit ever was.

[Talyl Landmaster]

Yeah he does work as that. I suppose it falls apart more when you ask why James and Peppy worked with a guy who was clearly an untrustworthy stock villain, even if it isn't making Pigma a super psychologically profound character, the others still needed to benefit from his inclusion somehow. There's just no obvious conclusion as to what that benefit ever was.

I like Star Fox, but I can admit that it can be stupid at times, plus it doesn't always make sense. Do you know how many plotholes there are in SF: Adventures? Its crazy!

[Drasiana]

Soooo many plotholes in the series entirely I like the games a lot because they're, for the most part, fairly fun and there is a basis for amazing progression there, it's just never really utilized to its full potential.