Take on that SF2 unused beta track

[psy_commando]

So, I transcribed by hear that track, and then I decided to mess around with it. I was kinda surprised of the result!

The first part up to 1:13 is exactly the same as the beta, then things change:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13343993/SF2UnusedBetaTrack_Arrangement.mp3

Its probably one of the first thing musically speaking I do that doesn't sound like crap !
So I kinda wonder if anybody else has anything to say about it ?

 

I also kept the old version I made which sticks much more with the original track :

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13343993/SF2UnusedBetaTrack_Arrangement_old.mp3

 

I originally wanted to slip in the Starfox main theme from SF SNES instead of something random, but I couldn't get it to work properly

I wish I knew what I'm doing..

[DZComposer]

The bassline sounds out-of-key by like a half-step for a while. There are a few other spots where it sounds like you're not sure what chords you are using. I think once you figure that out this will sound quite nice.

When you're working polymelodically, you have to be ready to change some of one or both of the melodies. Basically, you find your chord progression first and then make both melodies fit it.

For example, you said you wanted the SF1 theme polied with this. It can be done. I chose I-V-ii-V-I as a chord progression. It ends in a nice perfect authentic cadence. Both this melody and the SF1 theme can fit in that progression. The SF1 theme needs no change, but this theme needs a couple of notes to change. This makes the SF1 theme the primary melody but they do work together:

http://corneriasound.com/betamusic/polyexample.mp3

Please note that I did not put any serious effort into this, it is just an example.

Of course what that means is that the closer the two songs are to having the same chord progression, the easier the polymelodic work will be and the more recognizable the sources will be.

Establishing what your chord progression is is vital even if you're not working polymelodically. It would also avoid the off-key issues with your bassline, which is very important because the bassline generally establishes the chord progression.

If you want to learn more about how notes fit together, here is a great site: http://www.musictheory.net/lessons

It starts off teaching you how to read music and then starts talking about how notes work together. I keep it bookmarked and refer to it often when I am writing music.

[psy_commando]

The bassline sounds out-of-key by like a half-step for a while. There are a few other spots where it sounds like you're not sure what chords you are using. I think once you figure that out this will sound quite nice.

When you're working polymelodically, you have to be ready to change some of one or both of the melodies. Basically, you find your chord progression first and then make both melodies fit it.

For example, you said you wanted the SF1 theme polied with this. It can be done. I chose I-V-ii-V-I as a chord progression. It ends in a nice perfect authentic cadence. Both this melody and the SF1 theme can fit in that progression. The SF1 theme needs no change, but this theme needs a couple of notes to change. This makes the SF1 theme the primary melody but they do work together:

http://corneriasound.com/betamusic/polyexample.mp3

Please note that I did not put any serious effort into this, it is just an example.

Of course what that means is that the closer the two songs are to having the same chord progression, the easier the polymelodic work will be and the more recognizable the sources will be.

Establishing what your chord progression is is vital even if you're not working polymelodically. It would also avoid the off-key issues with your bassline, which is very important because the bassline generally establishes the chord progression.

If you want to learn more about how notes fit together, here is a great site: http://www.musictheory.net/lessons

It starts off teaching you how to read music and then starts talking about how notes work together. I keep it bookmarked and refer to it often when I am writing music.

Thanks, I already looked at that page before, but it just shows you the "how", and not the "why". I'd like to have a generic idea of how it works so I can apply it to the rest.  And what part of the bassline is off ? The second half ?

Also, that example you've made, its a little different than the actual track, no ? I mean, the rythm is completely different, wouldn't it sound out of place ?

 

I was thinking of mostly doing it like most of the SNES game, where pretty much the same sequence of notes from the main theme is played in most songs with a completely different rythm. Like, here's what I mean:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13343993/StarFoxThemes_1low.mp3

But then again, maybe just putting it in a more easy to recognize fashion like you did, would be better and easier..

 

I actually read the "Music Theory", and "Musical Composition" for dummies books, spoke with musicians and read a bunch of things, and watched video tutorials. And the thing I really don't get at all is the song's key, the scale, chords, and chord progression, how to figure them out, and what's their relationship together..  And also the circle of fifth. People show me sheet music with symbols, but don't tell me how to think with the notes themselves, outside of a sheet of music..

 

I never found someone that would put it in words I'd understand, and eventually people would tell me that it would come by playing guitar and learning chords... Which sounds like a magic answer to me, given that by spending even more time on music I'd eventually get the answer anyways. But the point is to avoid spinning in circles and making this harder than it should

I mean, its not rocket science and I don't get why its so hard for me to assimilate this..

 

Also, from what I understand, the letters used to represent chords are capital for major chords and lowercase for minors, but then why mix them ? Don't chords from the various scales have a distinctive sound to them that make them hard to fit together ? Unless I don't get it..

 

And if anyone's curious, here's the full midi file:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13343993/SF2BetaTrack_Arr32.mid

The velocity and overall volume are messed up though, given Synth1 behaved differently for some reasons. And I've used FLStudio's piano roll editor, because its waaay faster than using Anvil Studio to place notes one by one!

[DZComposer]

I just threw that example together as an example of a theoretical polymelodic combo. If I were actually making such a song I would put a lot more effort into the rhythm pattern. As far as how to change up a melody, you have to find the key first and then make that melody fit the chord progression.

As far as the bassline issues, it's in several areas. I'll look at that MIDI and give you exact measure numbers.

I'll try to help. Since the key signature is the basis of chords and chord progressions, you should understand that first. What about key signatures do you not get?

[DZComposer]

Key is in A. Unfortunately, alomst the entire bassline was off. Also, apologies for being blunt, but, the ending is a basket case.

There was little for me to go on with assigning instruments, so I picked random synth sounds. Here it is with a bassline build on the key:

http://www.corneriasound.com/betamusic/bassfix.mp3

I did not attempt to fix the ending. That is something you must do.

The way to start with making sure things are in-key is to make sure every note is actually in the key signature (there are exceptions to this, but until you understand keys lets not worry about that right now).

A good way to find the key of a song:

1. Bass note of last chord. Since most music ends in an authentic cadence, the last chord is usually a I chord, meaning the root chord of the key. In key of A, that is the A major chord. The melody often ends on the I root as well.

2. The beginning note is a good place to look, too, since a lot of music starts with a I chord.

Message me on Steam or Skype and I'll try to help you understand the basics better.

[psy_commando]

As far as the bassline issues, it's in several areas. I'll look at that MIDI and give you exact measure numbers.

I'll try to help. Since the key signature is the basis of chords and chord progressions, you should understand that first. What about key signatures do you not get?

Well, my first issue was that it was really hard to guess from the original song where a measure would end and start. Given the tempo changes the duration of notes, I wasn't sure how to tell quarter notes from the others. And the fact that the knowledge from previous experience with SNES music, that midis extracted from the game have a tempo is locked at 169 and are completely off when seen on a musical staff didn't really help

 

So, how would I tell whether a song is 4/4, 6/4, etc, just by listening, and what does the tempo does in this ? Wouldn't it means 1 quarter note = 1 beat, and thus that the song is played at a rate of like 156 quarter notes by minutes ? My first guess was 4/4, by listening to the synth brass that plays the same note at the same rate pretty much..

 

 

Key is in A. Unfortunately, alomst the entire bassline was off. Also, apologies for being blunt, but, the ending is a basket case.

There was little for me to go on with assigning instruments, so I picked random synth sounds. Here it is with a bassline build on the key:

http://www.corneriasound.com/betamusic/bassfix.mp3

I did not attempt to fix the ending. That is something you must do.

The way to start with making sure things are in-key is to make sure every note is actually in the key signature (there are exceptions to this, but until you understand keys lets not worry about that right now).

A good way to find the key of a song:

1. Bass note of last chord. Since most music ends in an authentic cadence, the last chord is usually a I chord, meaning the root chord of the key. In key of A, that is the A major chord. The melody often ends on the I root as well.

2. The beginning note is a good place to look, too, since a lot of music starts with a I chord.

Well that does sounds more "together"..

 

Oh, so that's what the circle of fifth is for then ? What to do when the melody begins later on, or if its ambiguous what is the actual melody ? Like for instance some Earthbound musics are just, kinda hard to tell, those with the weird noise, and then the bass is almost playing the melody :

[Dr. Orange]

You got to clarify there DZ on the key. When I opened the MIDI it looked and sounded like a C Major/A Minor. Plus there is a key change too to A Major.
 
The tune's bass in the edited part isn't that bad. Granted it wasn't in tune but only by a small margin.  One thing is that if the melody has no sharps or flats in the key then the bass shouldn't have any either (Besides the occasional accidental if you're going for that).

So, how would I tell whether a song is 4/4, 6/4, etc, just by listening, and what does the tempo does in this ? Wouldn't it means 1 quarter note = 1 beat, and thus that the song is played at a rate of like 156 quarter notes by minutes ? My first guess was 4/4, by listening to the synth brass that plays the same note at the same rate pretty much..

Finding the Tempo is as easy as tapping your foot. The way the kick drum was present makes it an easy 4/4. There are tempos like 3/4 and 6/4 but I really doubt you'll find anything in a SNES game. SO no need to worry there.
Yes. The song is set in 156 BPM however the notes are dispersed to not make the song go full "Fire and Flames" when you hear it.

[psy_commando]

Well, I think I just murdered the song XD

I tried to move the notes into A Major and tried to preserve the intervals, but it began sounding really weird..

Like dead and lifeless. And the overall song has gone down in pitch.

Also, FL Studio has a built-in "key checker", and on some patterns it tells me the notes are in F# Minor sometimes even though They're all notes from the A Major scale. I looked it up and noticed F# Minor has the same notes. So, what makes the F# Minor different from A Major ?

At first I thought A Major had to start on A and end on A, and F# Minor had to start on F# and end on F#, but I really have no ideas.

And I'm kinda worried because I still find the first mp3 I posted relatively pleasing to the ear, even the dissonant parts, while if it was off it really shouldn't.. Well besides a few times with the bass and some of the other instruments.

I hope I'm not tone deaf or something..

 

Message me on Steam or Skype and I'll try to help you understand the basics better.

I sent you a message on Skype a few days ago, I don't know if you've seen it ?

Also, I just noticed that you had gotten the tempo of the song perfectly in your mp3.. I kept either getting too far ahead or too far behind when I was attempting to find the tempo. I even adjusted it in the 0.005 range and I couldn't get it right.. How did you do that ?

 

Finding the Tempo is as easy as tapping your foot. The way the kick drum was present makes it an easy 4/4. There are tempos like 3/4 and 6/4 but I really doubt you'll find anything in a SNES game. SO no need to worry there.

Yes. The song is set in 156 BPM however the notes are dispersed to not make the song go full "Fire and Flames" when you hear it.

I'm really not sure what you mean here..

What I'm wondering is how does time signatures and tempo affect each others ?

EDIT: Also I found the track I was talking about when you told me having a melody going down and going up at the same time was a bad thing. Its the starfox band victory theme:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4Ff6AETM_k

Edited December 27, 2013 by psy_commando