It's OUR fault?

[RingtailedFox]

I was talking with a friend on Skype a few minutes ago, and we came to this conclusion (his words, not mine):

 

"yeah, Nintendo is a pretty kid-friendly company would hate for young fans to go on the internet looking for cool art and getting rewarded like the sonic fanbase xD"

 

So.... with all the rule 34 (mature/pornographic fan art) of starfox characters out there... is THAT why Nintendo is attempting to avoid Star Fox at all costs?  even though it would be obvious for them to crank out multiple games at this point?

 

Sigh...  I just don't know what to say.  2013 was the 20th Anniversary of Star Fox, yet we get nothing (it's the Year of Luigi, thanks to his 30th anniversary!).... we might have to wait for 2018 (the 25th anniversary), or even 2023 (30th)... but personally, if i don't hear of any news of a starfox game by E3 this year, i'm calling the time of death as 2006 (right after StarFox: Command).

 

As much as it pains me to say this (especially since StarFox has been an obsession of mine since mid-2009), I have little hope of the series surviving... It's very hard for me to find other fans these days, which stokes my fears of a shrinking/dying fandom...  I could rant and rave and post all the ideas I have for a new starfox game, or what nintendo could/should do for the franchise... but It seems to all fall on deaf ears, with them basically trolling us by mentioning starfox now and then to bring up interest, but do nothing... and they even ignore offers from other developers to make games...

Even if i had a billion dollars to buy the franchise and either make games myself, or release it to the public domain... i doubt nintendo would sell.

 

I'm just at a loss here.

[Novarek]

I think the problem is much more complicated than that.

 

If Nintendo does not produce StarFox games  atm, this is because they are in front of a huge choice that I think scare them.

 

Let me explain.

 

We are in 2014, they can't do a simple rails shooter, Nintendo would be again accused of taking the easy way and it would be a reviews frankly justified.

 

The series needs to evolve, to change its foundation but in this case, the other problem it's the fanbase which may be very unhappy with such a change (look at the Zelda fan base after the announcement of Hyrule Warior).

 

In these 2 cases, Nintendo will make disappointed, so I think this is why Nintendo does not do anything with StarFox currently

[Hope(N Forever)]

Placing blame on Rule 34 makes no sense, especially considering there is much, much more content on the internet based on the Pokémon series than all other Nintendo IPs plus Sonic the Hedgehog combined! (Or at least it is as according to that one website which I'm not gonna name or link) And yet, Nintendo keeps releasing more Pokémon games regardless, and the series is usually better suited for younger kids than Star Fox.

 

Anyway, Nintendo often places gameplay first before considering plots and continuities. Miyamoto once revealed in an interview that he is surprised people keep demanding more F-Zero games, as he felt the series had reached a point where they couldn't make anything new out of it, which explains why Nintendo hasn't released an F-Zero game in a long time either. Star Fox isn't the only Nintendo IP in the dumps, you know? Besides, how can the series be "dead" since 2006 when Nintendo released the Nintendo 3DS remake of Star Fox 64 in 2011? While technically not a whole new game, it still indicates that Nintendo haven't forgotten about Star Fox after all. You may never know what they have been working in the background, and more often than naught they always work on new gameplay concepts, and who knows when they would consider Star Fox as best suited for it (although lately, other IPs are getting a bit more of that cake - I even once >posted that Kid Icarus: Uprising could have been Star Fox game).

I say give it a little bit more time - even though we have been literally waiting for years, but still. Retro Studios are most likely done with Donkey Kong for now since the new game is to be available in February 2014, and then who knows what else they might have in mind. By the way, regardless of the disappointment of what Retro Studios worked on when being unveiled at E3 2013, I am personally excited for Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze. The more DKC games, the better!

[Ori]

Might as well be the resident nitpicker; "our". 

Good one. o3o

 

There's a difference between a regular aficionado and someone whose interest grown to publicly embarrassing (and most times disturbing) levels. Referring to both sides as one will derail the topic into Furry Fandom Thread; Episode II. But the subject is way more complex than that, even if it's just R34 being considered as a variable.

 

Back to topic I go!

I'm not saying that it is to be blamed though, as much as I wanted to blame it personally. Like the others said, it's just a matter of fact because Nintendo probably has no ideas in stock for a new SF game, with a legitimately 'new' feel to it, and actual gameplay value. I personally just think they have better cash cows to maintain (Mario, The Legend Of Zelda, Pokémon, recent third-parties, etc.) at the moment, and thus don't consider trying to showboat a little with the flying foxes in space.

 

I think the issue also lies within the fact the SF consumer base is broken as hell, so much to the point doing as much as considering a different theories into the series causes uproar. It's not even possible to consider it a group at all. There's no commonplace at all for Nintendo to build something up from. Lots of complaint, upset fans, make more material, rework existing and retcon everything, work, work, work.

Following the 'let's make fans happy' logic, said SF game would have a high chance of containing things that would get me banned should I ever post them here. Probably involving Krystal granted alarming size growth powers and usage of Fox as an 'exotic' appetizer. *bludgeoned*

Then again they could go the EA way and toss a half-baked thing at our face, but for we all know, they did it once already, and it wasn't any better...

 

So is it fault of R34, entirely? No. Does it help on screwing up any possible course of action by breaking the audience even further? Yes it does. The simple fact the SF consumer base is mainly Furry (i.e.; petty, overreactive, downright unreasonable in most cases) already shakes the structure of the consumer base, and combine that with the fact that every individual, or at least, each group has a different set of rules, moral standards, preferences, and (in some cases) fetishes, and congratulations! You're doing as much as rivaling the fragility of the Sonic fanbase; You are very powerful! *shot*

 

The nature of the fanbase or its moral standard (or moral void) does not affect whatever the producers are doing unless they actually bother to take that in consideration. Nintendo has its standards and I don't see the company bending itself because someone wants vixen boobs ingame, in short term future. Then again, Nintendo didn't do anything at all either.

 

It's that, or Nintendo just set their clocks to Valve Time altogether.

[DoctorAllosaurus]

It has nothing to do with porn and everything to do with Nintendo being a bunch of out of touch old fogeys who'd rather just take the easy way out, I mean how many Mario games came out in the past year that have brought something fresh and innovative to the table, not many.

[Redeemer]

Dude have you SEEN what deviantArt has done to Princess Peach and Rosalina? Holy shit man if R34 was what stopped SF then Nintendo, by the same logic, would actively hunt down all copies of every Mario game and burn it in a purging yet celebratory fire atop their HQ.

 

 

I really think they just deem it not profitable enough, plus they have so many other plans for other franchises that pull in more money. SF is great, it's popular, but it's still to catch up with Mario, The Legend of Zelda, etc. Sad as I am to say it.

[RingtailedFox]

Let's not forget that this was the reason esurance (an American automobile insurance company) stopped using their female human spy mascot on television and online... so, it's not out of the question that it could be the cause of another mascot no longer seeing the light of day..

[Scourge]

Dude have you SEEN what deviantArt has done to Princess Peach and Rosalina?

 

Wait, Rosalina?

 

*goes to Deviantart*

 

 

....

 

*long pause*

 

 

 

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHWHYWHYWHYWHYWHYWHYWHYWHYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

 

 

*recovery*

 

*pant* heuuu.... Okay.... So I'm pretty sure the copious amounts of porn on the internet isnt whats stopping nintendo from releasing another

spacefox game, as far as nintendo is concerned, sexual themes of any kind don't exist according to their policy about mature games

[Dr. Orange]

Yeah but that's one car company in a n isolated case. I can say in my travels across the reaches of the internet that I've seen an unfathomable amount of R34 on about every corporation mascot, every living actor, every etc. That company just made it hard er for themselves to make commercials. 

 

Alright let's start with Rule 34: If it exists, there will be porn of it. 

About ever game company on this planet and any aliens that like to read our emails knows that any game they develop will have porn of x y or z period. 

 

Nintendo is a kids company. Yeah I can go with this. Yet possible porn wouldn't have any affect on why SF isn't being produced. Like Red said, 

 

Dude have you SEEN what deviantArt has done ...?

 

With this logic then we should hunt down every childhood game that has ever had porn made of it. And Trust me I've seen some Leapfrog and Jumpstart shit.

 

And ... I'm just thinking barely on this one since I just woke up ... Can kids really find porn at an early age? I mean, Google and Bing both start out with safe search on new computers and the average household doesn't change that. So unless the kids like "I NEED ME SOME SEXY TIME!" will they really start their grand internet horror voyage with knowing how to turn off safesearch and starting with Nintendo's characters?

[Arashikage]

Let's not forget that this was the reason esurance (an American automobile insurance company) stopped using their female human spy mascot on television and online... so, it's not out of the question that it could be the cause of another mascot no longer seeing the light of day..

ACTUALLY that's not at all the reason Esurance stopped using Erin.  Have you ever noticed that the mascots for lots of different companies changed?  Cookie Crisp's dog, Chip changed to a wolf, and now he's chasing the famous cookie shaped breakfast cereal instead of showing adults how cookies can in fact be a breakfast food, most of the McDonalds gang isn't used anymore, and the guy on the bottles of Mountain Dew who shouted "Yahoo!" with the bottle cork popping through his hat isn't being used anymore.  Companies move on and find other mascots, or just drop their mascots altogether.  It happens.  The real reason Esurance stopped using Erin in their commercials was because she scored rather low on surveys they put out to their customers.  People didn't like her as much as other mascots, so they dropped her.  It had NOTHING to do with porn.  In fact, I dare say most companies don't even acknowledge what artists do with their mascots in their spare time.  Have you ever heard of someone getting a C&D for rule 34?

[Redeemer]

Wait, Rosalina?

 

*goes to Deviantart*

 

 

....

 

*long pause*

 

 

 

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHWHYWHYWHYWHYWHYWHYWHYWHYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

 

 

*recovery*

 

*pant* heuuu.... Okay.... So I'm pretty sure the copious amounts of porn on the internet isnt whats stopping nintendo from releasing another

spacefox game, as far as nintendo is concerned, sexual themes of any kind don't exist according to their policy about mature games

 

I know buddy I know, it's okay. *pats back reassuringly*

 

And Trust me I've seen some Leapfrog and Jumpstart shit.

 

And ... I'm just thinking barely on this one since I just woke up ... Can kids really find porn at an early age? I mean, Google and Bing both start out with safe search on new computers and the average household doesn't change that. So unless the kids like "I NEED ME SOME SEXY TIME!" will they really start their grand internet horror voyage with knowing how to turn off safesearch and starting with Nintendo's characters?

 

Leapfrog. LEAPFROG. LEAPFROG. LEAAAAAAAAPFROOOOOOOOOOOOG.

 

Also regarding safesearch - I have seen things slip through the net thanks to incorrect dA tagging or no mature tags, I guess from other sites too. Not all the time, but occasionally. Also that's another point - a lot of kids join dA to make friends or share their art, and a lot of smut has no mature tags and is also tagged with crap just to get more views. For example:

 

Article: KrystalxPanther porn, no mature tag.

Actual tags: krystal, panther, starfox, star, fox, nintendo, 64, 3ds, wii, mccloud, wolf, mario, super, cute, fox, play, peach, rosalina, hot, zelda

 

So while some of those tags are relevant, any kid who searches new for "Super Mario Cute Princess Peach" will get this bundle of furry passion on their screen. I've seen it myself, I've been searching for something completely different and there's something from a whole other franchise right there in front of me. That's against the rules in dA, as well as not having a mature tag, but dA staff are really slow so a lot of stuff doesn't get picked up on.

[Vy'drach]

And ... I'm just thinking barely on this one since I just woke up ... Can kids really find porn at an early age? I mean, Google and Bing both start out with safe search on new computers and the average household doesn't change that. So unless the kids like "I NEED ME SOME SEXY TIME!" will they really start their grand internet horror voyage with knowing how to turn off safesearch and starting with Nintendo's characters?

 

I do not google ponies due to the amount of nightmarish things that are forever burned into my brain, all while safesearch was on. Dark Souls, too. I found more Dark Souls porn with it on than off. And not of characters you'd imagine like Princess Gwynevere, who's a pair of breasts with legs and blonde curls. No, I found plenty of Black Dragon Kalameet, however.

[unoservix]

i would laugh forever and ever and ever if it were true that Nintendo isn't making a new Star Fox game because of creepy Star Fox porn on the internet but for serious that is a pretty dumb idea. if internet porn drove business decisions at major video game companies then we would pretty much never see another video game again.

 

nor do i see some evil conspiracy to not make a Star Fox game because it would have to be a rail shooter or whatever. it's a matter of profitability. they can make more money with Zelda games and Mario Lacrosse or whatever, so why wouldn't they? it's not like they're obligated to keep a game series going. eventually someone will fall prey to remake lust and go back to this old bunch of games and do something with it, but that "eventually" hasn't come around yet.

 

and lest it be forgotten, we did get a quasi-new game in the faraway misty era of 2011. it's not an entirely new game, but then, it's not like the Star Fox franchise has gone the way of the Half-Life franchise or something.

 

In fact, I dare say most companies don't even acknowledge what artists do with their mascots in their spare time.  Have you ever heard of someone getting a C&D for rule 34?

 

i would assume most companies don't do this because people drawing porn of their mascots is usually beneath their notice. but then, it's also in their interests not to do so because sending out a C&D letter for your Erin Esurance porn would just bring attention to the fact that you're drawing Erin Esurance porn. it certainly wouldn't stop you, or anyone else, from drawing Erin Esurance porn. for that matter, it might even encourage more, just to piss off the big bad insurance company trying to tell The Internet what to do. in fact, much of the whole Rule 34 thing is driven not so much because people are really turned on by the porn, but because of the irreverent, rebellious nature of making porn of everything, and the shock value that comes from showing people your pictures of Nigel Thornberry fucking a koala.

 

i mean, there probably are people who actually do get off to Nigel Thornberry fucking a koala. but as often as not, that's probably all about the shock value and getting to puff yourself up as some modern-day iconoclast who doesn't think anything is too sacred to be pornographied.

 

EDIT: also, when i rule the world, breaking page tables with long strings of text will be punishable by death. Scourgeclaw will be first against the wall.

[Drasiana]

I can't believe this is a topic that exists.

 

Firstly, people who pump out Krystal porn are actually probably the minority of the people who like Star Fox. I'm not talking about the "Star Fox fandom". Any given person who has ever touched a Nintendo system has played and probably liked a Star Fox game. They're the people Nintendo gives a shit about. And if someone is buying a Star Fox game so they can draw sweet, sweet ship art...who cares? More money, less problems.

 

Weird cartoon porn is like a universal constant at this point. Creating or refusing to create a new Star Fox game will do absolutely nothing to prevent Krystal porn. Krystal porn will always be here. If she had never been a character at all, then it was only a matter of time before someone created a character that looked like her and started drawing porn of that instead.

 

It is accepted in the entertainment industry that if you create a popular enough franchise, there will be porn. It's actually amusing to a lot of content creators. You'll get the Hobbit cast jokingly sending slash fanfic links to each other on Twitter. Supernatural has an actual, canon character who writes slash fanfiction about the main characters (as they appear in the series' meta Supernatural book series). We all know what you guys are up to. And honestly, it's because fandom is a place that a lot of us started in. I severely doubt that anyone at Nintendo or Rare was surprised by what happened with Star Fox, especially considering they intentionally designed her to be as sexy as possible in a "kid's game". Keep in mind the existence of Zero-Suit Samus as well.

 

There is no gigantic conspiracy as to why there has not been a new Star Fox game. Everyone with any iota of power has only ever said that they haven't really had the right idea, or found the right time or place, for a new game. Yes, they keep pumping out Mario games, but it's why Disney keeps pumping out installments of the Cars/Planes franchise. It isn't a risk, and Star Fox has almost always been a risk: SNESFox with the FX chip, 64 with the rumble pack and voice acting, Adventures was a foray into the next generation and high-definition functions, Assault was meant to be a part of the arcade game franchise, and as far as I can tell Command was an experiment in hybrid strategy/shooter/rpg gamestyles. If I can make an educated guess as to why they have yet to make one, it's that they've yet to find a gameplay experiment for which Star Fox is the best and most effective choice for introducing it.

[RingtailedFox]

is it entirely possible that the entire rails-shooter genre is worn-out and can't really be expanded further or taken in a new direction?  Or simply no longer popular or relevant in the same way it was in the 1990s and early 2000s? If that's the case, then I fear we might not be seeing a new StarFox game (outside of possibly remakes or re-releases)... especially if people think "if it's not on-rails, it's not really StarFox!"... why not try expanding the universe of the game series by making spin-offs, like... a racing game kinda like F-Zero (call it Lylat Racing, for example)... or, expand Mario Kart to include the starfox cast (They already have kirby and Donkey Kong)...

 

I will say this, though... for what was basically a glorified tech demo of a highly-experimental idea at the time (3D/polygonal gaming from 1993), Star Fox has been an overwhelming success...

[Drasiana]

I don't think it's necessarily worn-out, nor do I think it necessarily has to be a rails-shooter--Command wasn't, for the most part, and neither was Adventures, yet they found ways to experiment with both of them. It's not so much "what can we add to rail shooters?" as it is "what can we add to the medium as a whole, that can be best conveyed through this series"?

 

I also forgot to point out that both Adventures and Assault were T-rated so the whole "what about the children?!" panic isn't entirely well-founded here.

[Vy'drach]

People really overstate the need for adding or innovating something. You can do a game without really overhauling it, plus, it doesn't need to be on rails, as Dras said. I think Star Fox could work in a Rebel Squadron type deal.

[RingtailedFox]

i understand that, Vydrach... however, that makes me think "so, this series is really unneeded now?"  "a series without a purpose or destination"?

[Drasiana]

That is like the exact opposite of what we're saying. It's a series that exists for them to use it when they need it. The amount for which its needed is entirely based on what it is that Nintendo is wishing to use it for.

 

Look at Nintendo's main franchises as if they were a spice rack.

 

Every spice adds a different flavor, and they all taste quite different, and are used for different things. Mario is salt and pepper. Everyone uses salt and pepper now and then, so it's a safe one to pop into their dishes. Star Fox is another spice that isn't necessarily as commonly used, but it's still there on its spice rack. They just need to dig up a recipe where it'll taste just right.

[Vy'drach]

Not at all. Capcom got started on games with no real innovation. Dino Crisis and Resident Evil 1, 2, 3, and Code Veronica are the same damned game in a different setting.

[RingtailedFox]

Drasiana: i get it now.  your spice rack analogy is actually quite accurate.  And vydrach... regarding innovation... i believe that should be in moderation, too... yes, sometimes it's needed to breath life and fresh air into something... but innovating just for the sake of innovation can sometimes be counterproductive or even harmful...  I did like Dino Crisis, though...

[Vy'drach]

People overstate innovation.

[Hidi]

It was our fault in the sense that we didn't buy enough copies of Star Fox Command back in 2006.

Guys, you've got to be loyal to a series, even when it gets bad (Skyward Sword)!

[RingtailedFox]

That reminds me of a quote i saw online a few weeks back... "The Dreamcast didn't fail us... We Failed the Dreamcast..." and it's true on both counts (Dreamcast and StarFox Command).

[unoservix]

so, uh, what, Star Fox fans aren't being evangelical enough? do we need to go door to door telling people of Dr. Andross' Heavenly Plan For You? do we need to put on panels at conventions pleading you to Let Us Tell You About Star Fox? this is silly.