Star Fox 64 2. Gameplay, Story. All here.(Yah you guys are right :/)

[NeverGiveUpFox555]

Star Fox 64 2 (Reply to you)

 

Wow.....lot to take in here. Well first of all I thank all of you for reading my topic of my idea of a Star Fox 64 2 game. I especially want to thank you guys for the comments! You have no idea how awesome it is to actually share this with everyone and have some fellow Star Fox fan input. I actually really want to thank ScourgeClaw for his comments. Yah Murry the Mole does sound like Sonic doesn't it?? haha. But yes you gave an interesting comment on Character development. Yes Star Fox has a big problem creating characters that the player cares about. But my idea on this game would be really focused on the character development that the franchise desperately needs. However ScourgeClaw I have to disagree with you on something. You say adding new characters would detract Star Fox as a game and would make the franchise fail like it did with Sonic. Well first of all Star Fox is not Sonic!!! and second of all I think in the original Star Fox games that you never really felt Fox really grieve for the loss of his father. I mean it's mentioned briefly in some games but as far as story line goes it's just something that happened. In this game the added characters help make the player understand that Fox actually really is having a tough time getting over the fact that his father is really gone. And seeing his father in Star Fox 64 and his dad actually guiding him out of Venom seemed so real to Fox, but Fox in this game has to except the fact that his father is gone. I actually didn't mention this in my last topic but one of the characters that I created, Burt the Bulldog, was actually a dear friend to James McCloud and Peppy Hare. I thought adding a character along with Peppy that knew Fox's father and was actually his friend would make really strong character bonds and friendships in the game. Now let's talk about Harry the hedgehog. Yes he is a hedgehog, and its not Sonic. As you can an all remember James McCloud was betrayed by Pigma and Peppy returned to Corneria to tell James's son Fox about his father's fate. I thought Harry the Hedgehog to really relate to Peppy. Peppy knows exactly how it feels to lose a friends and one of the most critical moments in the game is when Harry returns to General Pepper to tell him exactly what Peppy told Fox. (except the fact that Harry is telling Pepper about Andross's return.) I thought that this would pretty neat to see Peppy have flash backs of his past and "strengthen his character." but yah I hope I cleared that out of the way. But I'm sure if I didn't one of you guys will bring something up that I forgot to mention. But I think one of the saddest things about all of this is that this game will never be made. But it's my view of how it should be done. But yah I just wanted to clear this up. Star Fox 64 2 would be all about character development. And adding characters can help do that. Sonic was an epic fell, well because it's Sonic. haha. Well if you guys have any questions I'll answer back as soon as I can. Stay tuned for Star Fox 64 2 Gameplay, Story, All here.(part 2) I would like to thank ScourgeClaw again for his comments and the rest of you guys.  

Sincerely

 

NeverGiveUpFox555

[Dr. Orange]

Well I'm going to say I've been there where you were with the last topic so I have experience when someone critiques you, go along with it for it might help. The story does sound like either a under developed story or an over explained plot for a video game. Very confusing. You have some good work here and there but also some, a lot of things, things that need TLC.

Example:

 

Fox responds to this saying, "Not today," and shoots a bomb and kills the Boss.

What? Fox just became Vin Diesel?

 

My advice. Read it through a couple of times. If it sounds weird to the writer then there's a problem.

 

Don't add more characters than needed. When you go overboard, characters lose their importance and it's noticed and inflamed by the reader. Adding three characters is fine as long as there is important events they can contribute in.

 

For the love of your deity, do not, for any reason, Name characters "x the y" That does make it sound like a sonic franchise related story, AKA crap.

 

 

 

Also a bit off topic but I can't stop laughing whenever I see that Scouge's name receiving the BIU treatment. I wish I could brofist you right now Scouge.

[unoservix]

none of these characters you've invented have any necessity in the plot. they are entirely superfluous. why does Peppy need someone to "relate to him"? why does Fox need to spend more time "grieving" over his father's death, when he's already gone through his truncated heroic arc in Star Fox 64? why is there any need for this Burt the Bulldog guy? and why is all of this bloated backstory necessary for something that is already in the past and pretty well settled by the time the game begins? Star Fox already has plenty of characters that are already rather pointless and in need of further fleshing out; in what way is that problem solved by burying them under even more pointless characters? in what way are you coming up with something original and interesting by literally reviving the bad guy of Star Fox 64 (again) and just having him rehash the plot of Star Fox 64 and kill existing tertiary characters to make room for your own even more pointless tertiary characters? why would anyone want to play a video game that is "all about character development" instead of, say, being a fun game to play? in what way does the game get better by adding more dead bodies to it? you sure do talk a lot about Star Fox like it's a first-person shooter; why should the game go changing genres yet again?

 

this must be what it was like to sit in on the production meetings for Bomberman: Act Zero. piles of dead bodies and gore don't make your game "mature," and they especially don't make your game "mature" when they are just added for the sake of having more dead bodies and gore. that you repeatedly call attention to how "dark" this game would be and how it will "infuriate" people makes me suspect this is some kind of well-crafted "dark and gritty game proposal" parody...but let's be honest, it probably isn't.

 

also i am preeeeeetty sure you won't be getting to make that part 2 thread, seeing as how the first one got shitcanned.

[DZComposer]

Please use line breaks. It makes your post much easier to read.

[Scourge]

I like this post because it has my name in big letters.

 

 

And okay... dude, have you ever been through the grieving process (otherwise known as the 5 stages of grief) ? Its this little thing people go through when they suffer immense pain and despair at the loss of someone or something they care immensely for

 

Now: James McCloud was said to have been killed a few years before the event of the Lylat War. Now, if I have a good enough read on Fox as I think I do, something tells me he's beyond the part of the 5 stages where he whines about James every 12 seconds, else he'd likely break down at EVERYONE EVER TALKING ABOUT HIS DAD IN-FLIGHT.

(see Peppy, Pigma, Wolf, and I believe Bill at one point)

 

Fox himself was likely himself in denial about the visage of his father after the destruction of Andross

High amounts of adrenaline, combined with a terrified state of mind (fucker had just had a bloody dogfight with his rivals, flown a goddamn fighter down a tunnel barely big enough to support his craft (wings expanded for some reason), fought a giant goddamn brain, likely taken a severe beating of his own (don't fly close to the brain tentacles) in the cockpit, and was nearly killed by an enormous explosion that sent the entirety of Andross's underground base into a state of raging inferno. All of that taken into account, I'd be fucking surprised if he WASN'T seeing things.

What I'm saying here is: Logically, Fox would not be winging over his dad after an event like that. Fox did is grieving, He's moved on to revenge, and he's gotten it. Story arc closed. Done. No need to add to it.

 

I'm not trying to deny any form of creativity here. Please, ffs, make a fanfiction out of this (better names for your fan characters please *shudder*), I'll read the hell out of it. But I'm fairly certain the general discussion board of this site is not the place to do it, go to Deviantart or Fanfiction.net or Furaffinity for that.

 

also: the immense amounts of sarcasm is uncalled for.

 

 

 

Please use line breaks. It makes your post much easier to read.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ this about a bajillion times.

[Drasiana]

Alright let's give this a go.

 

You say adding new characters would detract Star Fox as a game and would make the franchise fail like it did with Sonic. Well first of all Star Fox is not Sonic!!!

 

Exactly. The point is not to turn it into Sonic by starting to use the same self-destructive aspects that the Sonic franchise has. This includes crapping out a ton of new characters we don't care about. Yelling "care about them!" will also not make us care about your characters. We're also comparing it to Sonic because you're using Sonic naming convention instead of Star Fox naming convention. No one in Star Fox is named "___ the ____". There are plenty of animal puns, so the names would be more like, I dunno, Harry Hedgerson or something.

 

 

and second of all I think in the original Star Fox games that you never really felt Fox really grieve for the loss of his father. I mean it's mentioned briefly in some games but as far as story line goes it's just something that happened.

 

This is purely, plainly, 100% the opposite of the truth. The very premise of Star Fox 64 is that Fox learns to overcome his father's death by successfully walking in his footsteps. Was it understated? Yes. But that was quite clearly the intention of the story. He's mocked and belittled by the villains the entire way through, telling him he wouldn't be as great as his father, that his father was a coward, or reminding him of his death. And even when Andross mocks him as such Fox pulls through and saves the universe with the memory of his father behind him. That last scene where Fox stares into the stars after James' apparition, when they ask him what's wrong, and he says "Nothing...nothing's wrong"? That's The Line. That's Fox saying that, indeed, nothing is wrong--he knows he made his father proud, and has accepted his death. That was the end of the "dead dad angst" character arc. We don't need to revisit it, and when they tried in Assault and Command it made no sense and was a blatant, pointless retread.

 

And even then...

 

In this game the added characters help make the player understand that Fox actually really is having a tough time getting over the fact that his father is really gone.

 

...there is literally no reason you couldn't do this with the characters we already have. Throwing characters that we don't care about at us won't make us care about an unrelated character more.

 

 

thought adding a character along with Peppy that knew Fox's father and was actually his friend would make really strong character bonds and friendships in the game. Now let's talk about Harry the hedgehog. Yes he is a hedgehog, and its not Sonic. As you can an all remember James McCloud was betrayed by Pigma and Peppy returned to Corneria to tell James's son Fox about his father's fate. I thought Harry the Hedgehog to really relate to Peppy. Peppy knows exactly how it feels to lose a friends and one of the most critical moments in the game is when Harry returns to General Pepper to tell him exactly what Peppy told Fox.

 

Absolutely none of this is necessary. You already have a character to do all of this. His name is Peppy and we like him way more.

 

 

Star Fox 64 2 would be all about character development. And adding characters can help do that.

 

Your original post hardly even mentioned Krystal, Slippy, Falco, or Star Wolf. How is this about "character development"? You're rehashing a plotline and character arc the games have already completed, and you're doing it by cramming some new characters in there while completely neglecting the ones we actually have come to care about. On top of that, you throw us a middle finger and kill off an actual canon character for no reason.

 

Hey, you know you can establish character arc and emotional response without killing people? "Someone dies" is like the laziest way of forcing character development, and because you rely on it so much, I have absolutely no sense of what Fox's relationships with the other characters are like or who he is as a person. And it isn't even really character development at all--it's just a character reacting to the plot. Character development is how the character changes as a person, and in turn, changes the course of the story. It isn't a character sitting around being sad because the plot keeps telling them to be sad.

 

Darker does not equal better.

 

Death does not equal maturity.

 

Understand your characters before you try to develop them.

[Drasiana]

No matter how badly I eviscerate your fangame idea, at least you are not Irwin Rathore or the guy responsible for Pericardium.

 

e: I'm not sure who deleted Uno's post but that's what this one is in context to, I wasn't double-posting for the sake of ragging on failed Star Fox movie directors :V

[Scourge]

No matter how badly I eviscerate your fangame idea, at least you are not Irwin Rathore or the guy responsible for Pericardium.

 

 

This x ∞

[unoservix]

e: I'm not sure who deleted Uno's post but that's what this one is in context to, I wasn't double-posting for the sake of ragging on failed Star Fox movie directors :V

 

it's okay not everyone is ready for my *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*LEGENDARY VISION*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

[Drasiana]

I suppose I should put in a few concise points as to what I think OP should do regarding his story, because my earlier criticism was a little sprawling:

 

1. Come up with a character arc for Fox that has nothing to do with James.

2. Really think about his relationship with the other canon characters and how they could impact the plot, since that's the route you seem to want to go.

3. Brainstorm some emotional conflicts that are not related to someone dying or to romance. Examples include conflicting interests, hidden truths, or temptation (greed, personal satisfaction like revenge or ego-stroking, etc).

[unoservix]

well that and i mean the plot is really just "Andross comes back! and invades the Lylat System! again!"

 

surely one would think Star Fox 64 2 ought to have grander ambitions than just rehashing Star Fox 64, especially if you're apparently going to change the game into a first-person shooter, and especially if you're telling us that "character development" will be so important

[Drasiana]

That too, though, I honestly don't mind the "Venomians trying to revive Andross...again" thing as long as you remember that's a Saturday morning cartoon villain plot and that Star Fox is basically a Saturday morning cartoon in video game form (THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER, BY THE WAY). It's not an extremely creative story but if you find an interesting way to revive Andross (that makes sense and is not "the Krazoa did it...somehow") and center the conflict more on the protagonists themselves rather than whatever the villain is doing--ie. the villains are there to facilitate the physical conflict but the story is really more focused on the personal conflict of the protagonists (think Avengers)--you could have something at least workable.

 

e: on a sidenote, the tone of Avengers, Indiana Jones or Star Wars is probably about as "dark" as you should take Star Fox. Any more comes off as trite and silly, not dark and mature.

[Scourge]

 "Venomians trying to revive Andross...again" thing as long as you remember that's a Saturday morning cartoon villain plot

Seriously, the fuck is the point of the floating brain? If a single arwing could've taken out Andross, alone, and un-assisted, Why the fuck is it a threat?

 

A wing of half-competent Cornerian Pilots could do the job

STARWOLF could do the job if you paid them enough

A Cornerian cruiser could easily do the fucking job

And the entirety of the Cornerian Defense Fleet could decimate a floating brain

 

So why the hell is Andross such a threat? Without his endless screen of fighters (which by the way was decimated in 64) and any and all venomian fleets (again, decimated, in our assault on Venom (*looks at area6, now reduced to a debris field)), Andross cant do much beyond scream at things, and give people nightmares about brain tentacles

 

Yes Andross is a powerful leader that nearly brought Venom to high standing in Lylat, but I'm fairly certain the cost of re-generating a giant monkey head after death is somewhere in the range of the cost of building, arming, and maintaining another fleet

 

Another fleet means Venom has the upper hand again

Another fleet means Venom could win for once

Another fleet would most assuredly mean victory

 

so why the fuck with the constant Andross-reviving

[Drasiana]

Andross is like, a super-mega-genius, so they could probably bs some excuse in that his intellect is unmatched by anyone else in Lylat and his ideas are the only thing that could lead them to victory or whatever. I don't know if I'd think too hard about the cost-comparison because there wasn't really any explanation as to how an exile on a wasteland planet managed to build a massive high-tech army that almost succeeded in conquering Lylat anyway. Also if you stick Andrew as the new Venomian leader he'd probably want to revive Uncle Andross despite any logical reason not to because he's a giant irrational baby.

[Scourge]

stuff...

 

Andrew ... despite any logical reason... he's a giant irrational baby.

Andrew in a nutshell.

 

 

 

 

 I don't know if I'd think too hard about the cost-comparison because there wasn't really any explanation as to how an exile on a wasteland planet managed to build a massive high-tech army that almost succeeded in conquering Lylat anyway.

-> Discovery of Lizard race

->Dictatorship setup

-> cost rendered non-issue as space-flight and modern inter-planetary warfare are introduced to Venomians

-> ships built and bought at cost due to dictatorship

-> shittons of enemy vessels

-> "strange activity"

-> Queue Fox's Daddy issues

-> Andross Invades

-> events of Starfox 64 unfold

-> Andross dies

-> Dictatorship dismounted, better government formed

-> an actual economy is setup

-> Shit begins costing money

???

 

Profit

[psy_commando]

Seriously, the fuck is the point of the floating brain? If a single arwing could've taken out Andross, alone, and un-assisted, Why the fuck is it a threat?

 

A wing of half-competent Cornerian Pilots could do the job

STARWOLF could do the job if you paid them enough

A Cornerian cruiser could easily do the fucking job

And the entirety of the Cornerian Defense Fleet could decimate a floating brain

 

So why the hell is Andross such a threat? Without his endless screen of fighters (which by the way was decimated in 64) and any and all venomian fleets (again, decimated, in our assault on Venom (*looks at area6, now reduced to a debris field)), Andross cant do much beyond scream at things, and give people nightmares about brain tentacles

 

Its because SF64 was basically a cut down version of the original SNES plot where, they actually explain the fact that the CDF lose because of several things:

- Underestimated Andross

- Corneria then gets scared of Andross's might

- CDF are a really small force, because they're peaceful (in the snes canon they're peaceful, not in SF64's)

- CDF fails at war

- Andross found advanced alien ruins on the planet it was exiled to, with plans for a super weapon.

- Andross's "brain" was actually the telekinetic amplifier, and its face is just steel plates moved via telekinesis. Andross is actually a person, not a magical floating head. (getting a little speculative there, maybe they're not steel, or actual plates..)

But yeah, in SF64, reviving Andross makes absolutely no sense, because its clearly evil beyond repair, and delusional enough to turn itself into a floating head monster thing, and not really a threat to anyone but itself on its own.. Not to mention That's why the whole Captain Shears thing reviving Andross is kinda, WTF-esque.. And then the battle with him on the boar kinda made more sense.. :/

[Drasiana]

This still doesn't explain where all that money and resources came from considering Andross got tossed to Venom as a prisoner and oh god we're thinking too hard about this

[StarFoxfan-FUR_ever]

Wait, I thought we had a very detailed discussion about these events about 3 months ago. Andrew would probably be the only one willing to help Andross out in the first place, so I guess we could just assume he was able to contact Andrew somehow as they had hatched a plan before Andross was even physically imprisoned on Venom. But as to how Corneria completely messed up with keeping tabs on Andross while he was a prisoner is anyone's guess really. I mean, did they just expect him to give up just because he was removed from the greater portion of society? Cornerian security guards fail at being security guards I suppose

[sroberson]

Headcanon:

There was no money to fund any of it. Venom was like colonial era Georgia or Australia. There were a ton of renegades living there that were exiled, willing to follow any leader that could lead them to a better life. They sacrifice their time and efforts to scrap together an army, and with Andross' knowledge on bioweapons, he helped build most of the army that challenged the galaxy...aka, most of them were not manned at all and were manufactured out of "who-the-heck-cares" that is found on Venom and there is a lot of it. He just McGeiver's that stuff together not costing much if anything at all. Where did they come up with (insert the blank) that clearly had to be manufactured and had to cost them something? Eh, make up some story about how when Andross was exiled he had allies and resources on other planets that would smuggle materiel to Venom or they just made a base of operations on that planet/station

Not sure what piqued my interest to post an idea.

[NeverGiveUpFox555]

Star Fox 64 2

 

I really liked your comments guys! But yes I now see the problems with my game idea. It does have a lot of stuff that still needs to be worked out. It's actually kind of funny because I didn't even recognize what I messed up on until you guys commented on it and made it known to me. So thanks on that. But yah I'm going to take ScourgeClaw's advice and turn this into a Fanfiction story. I'm going to work more on the main characters than the ones I created. I mean still want them though, I mean come on guys I created them and I realy like them haha. Even though the names of them really do suck. I want to keep the Name Burt, Harry, Murry, but if you guys come up with better names-last names for my story I'm writing let me know of what you think. I'm going to screw the idea of Fox's big daddy issues. Thanks for pointing out that flaw!( No sarcasm intended.) but yah I got tons of new ideas that I hope will make this new story a lot better. I'm no longer going to call it Star Fox 64 2. So yah. I'll figure out a new title for this. I don't know yet but i'll figure it out.  But I would just like to thank you guys for reading this and giving me great ideas for my story. I'll keep working on and adjusting it. If you guys have any last minute thoughts or reminders before I start, don't forget to post! Seriously it's really helpful!! Keep an eye out for my story. Whatever's its called I hope you guys like it. And I'll see you then.

 

See you beyond the stars

 

NeverGiveUpFox555

 

 

[StarFoxfan-FUR_ever]

Im glad you've taken into consideration what everyone has advised you to do with the story. Im sure with enough time and effort it might actually turn out good. Just for future reference, please refrain from making a new topic for every single announcement made. You could very easily have just posted this update in the last topic you made, where you made changes to the story.

[NeverGiveUpFox555]

Yah....but it's not as epic!!!!

haha jk yah i'll do that next time thanks.

[StarFoxfan-FUR_ever]

Forgot to mention, obviously when you do post the story, it will be in it's own thread. You can post it in the "Star Fox Fanfiction" forum under the Creative Work category

[Scourge]

 

...Scourgeclaw's advice ...

 

 

 

Also: Claw in my name isnt capped

[CrypticQuery]

Topics merged.  You can reply to users providing feedback using the same thread that they are providing feedback in.