The Fall of the Fanbase

[DZComposer]

A little self-deprecating humor from an old Star Fox fan.

Yes, that's Krystal's thigh tattoo on the Frisbee. It represents SFAd.

Long story short, SFAd fans were not the type of fan we oldies were used to. Everyone lost their shit and the fandom collapsed. Many SF communities died to bring us this comic.

FYI, starfox-online.com was the predecessor to starfox-online.net. SF-O.com was really a different site with different content. While many of the community migrated to SF-O.net and seeded its growth, most eventually moved-on. Thus, SF-O.com really was an ancestor more than it was the beginnings of SF-O.net.

With apologies to Brawl in the Family for the shameless edit:

http://brawlinthefamily.keenspot.com/2014/08/18/587-little-fox/

http://brawlinthefamily.keenspot.com/2014/08/22/588-more-little-fox-2/

[Gestalt]

I have no trouble believing this.

 

Also, history class.

[DZComposer]

This is what the Star Fox community looked like back in the day:

https://web.archive.org/web/19991006025410/http://disc.server.com/Indices/39145.html

None of the post links work, but we've come a long way in forum tech, haven't we?

Wayback has cached several iterations of starfox.org, but they are all majorly broken. Also, someone is sitting on the Starfox.org domian, but it has no DNS A record. I remember Dermot once said he'd like to bring the site back. Perhaps he's the one sitting on it.

[Dr. Orange]

The fanbase is not in falling; I'd say more in waiting. It just seems so fucking quiet since we have nothing to really talk about. We've kinda depleted all the old games. 

 

And when I saw the violence towards SFAd I though of the Sonic fan base a bit. It's part of our history, we don't need to be proud of it; just look back and fap laugh at it.

 

 

ALSO THE FUCK WITH THAT WEBSITE! WHAT THE FUCK A DROOLING SHITTED BAGGER OR SOME SHIT WHAT KIND OF STARFOX SITE WAS THAT SOME HISTORY WE HAVE 

[DZComposer]

Ah, memories.

Here I am announcing a WIP of Mercenarios de Lobo to the SF.Org peeps: https://web.archive.org/web/20060221222442/http://www.starfox.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=17302&sid=bb9d8cef3119d8bd0ecc00bb2a056c48

One of my first posts ever was in this OTG thread, albeit an embarrasing one. I went by "Double Zero" (That's where the "DZ" comes from) at the time: https://web.archive.org/web/20010428213145/http://sfx64.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000083-9.html

Double Zero evolved into DZ, Resident Composer. Also shows moderator potential. https://web.archive.org/web/20020107133554/http://sfx64.com/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=002390

DZ, Resident Composer evolves to DZComposer: https://web.archive.org/web/20050219163605/http://www.sfx64.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=b25f37fedd95cc80b12218e38d82ac3a&threadid=6960

[Robert Monroe]

Mercenries del Lobos is fucking earsex, DZ. Still one of my fave remixes!

 

NOW THE OLD FORUMS I USED TO USE WERE FOUNDED ON SHIT LIKE EZBOARD

 

AND GRANTED THEY WERE FORMED IN THAT AWKWARD TRANSITION PERIOD OF SF64 TO SFAD

 

but dammit those were my memories. I was only a passing member of OTG and such before SFAd came.

[DZComposer]

You know, Mercenarios is 9 years old and is my most popular work. I should modernize it. I have long sense gotten better samples and better at orchestration.

Plus, honestly, it needs some Latin percussion REALLY bad.

[Krock]

I avoided the Star Fox community for so many years because I was an active member of the Rare fan community, which made a big fan of Adventures by extension. I viewed you guys as a bunch of crazies who wanted nothing more than a bunch of SF64 rehashes until the end of time. Hey, it was my angsty-teen years, give me a break.

 

As for the fanbase's current state, I know I'm not active because there's nothing to talk about, and judging by how inactive this place is, I'm not alone. Who knows, maybe Star Fox U will change things. But probably not.

[Terramax]

As I get older, the more I realise self-proclaimed 'fans' of anything - books, video games, films, etc, are a burdan on whatever art they claim to be supporters of. Fans of just about anything get so hung up and obsessed with their favourite art forms that they claim ownership not just in the product(s) that they own, but apparently power to decide what direction their art should go next, who else should like them, and for what reason to like them for.

 

Recently, I saw snippets of a film where various people complained that re-releases of Star Wars apparently ruined their childhood because Lucas chose to add various CGI in there. This in turn came from a very LONG video of some guys complaining about the Silent Hill HD re-release bugs in ridiculous detail.

 

So some stuff gets messed up. So sometimes franchises go in a different direction to that you don't like. GET OVER IT AND MOVE ON! I gave up on the Silent Hill series after the 4th installment. I don't care. I'll always have the original trilogy, which I love. Don't like the new Star Wars re-releases? Ditch them and keep your older vhs copies or whatever. Don't like the new Silent Hills? Stick to older titles. Don't like certain Star Fox games? Just play the ones you like!

 

I wasn't around this site during these supposed days of yore, but I get the vibe that fans of the original snes, and maybe N64 title got aggressive because a.) the games went in a direction they didn't like and b.) new fans liked the new installments for different reasons i.e. Krystal. If this is the case, I think that's pretty childish. I take video games seriously as a form of expression, but I know when to draw the line. If someone wants to get excited over a cartoon character, all the power to them. Doesn't affect anyone else. So, you think the older games were better? Well, get back to playing them and lets those who enjoy the newer ones carry on enjoying their titles.

 

I really don't understand why anyone would get hung up on Star Fox of all things. I've enjoyed the games since the N64 title, but I can't see why anyone would take this series so seriously, especially the storylines. Unlike games like Silent Hill or even to a lesser extent the Final Fantasy series, books like Fight Club or Catcher in the Rye, etc,it's not as if there's any important moral messages, concepts, or deep, meaningful ideologies or lore that could be tarnished due to an unfortunate wrong turn in the story's cannon. They're just straight up action games with a generally coherent narrative as a way to link each product, so that Nintendo can continue to make money. Nothing more. I play em because they're fun to play.

 

Like what you like, and don't make criticism at others for whatever it is they like, even if it's something you do not.

[Redeemer]

The fanbase is not in falling; I'd say more in waiting. It just seems so fucking quiet since we have nothing to really talk about. We've kinda depleted all the old games. 

 

And when I saw the violence towards SFAd I though of the Sonic fan base a bit. It's part of our history, we don't need to be proud of it; just look back and fap laugh at it.

 

 

QFT

[LazerMaster5]

Wow, it looks like SFAd really torn the random asunder. Maybe people need to stop overreacting when a game that takes the series in a new direction gains fans of its own. The Mario games didn't have this problem, or the SMB fans would be arguing with the MK fans, who in turn would be hating on the Paper Mario games.

[Robert Monroe]

It really wasn't SFAd itself that did it, but the people it attracted. I joined the Starfox fandom just before SFAd came out, but well after SF64 was the hot new thing (circa 2001, 2000? I forget), so I saw the transition in action. Essentially, though... the old school fandom was -extremely- tight knit. Like, everyone knew everyone's name almost. Of course this wasn't the literal truth, but it is how it looked. The old school fans were honestly pumped up for SFAd before it came out, but as the game's release drew near it attracted DROVES of new fans... and most of them idiot young teenagers like myself. How did this cause such a schism?

 

Lemme just say, the Krystal Lovers Association existed for a reason. It was created right before SFAd came out, and it embodied everything the "new blood" was: immature, goofy, hormonal teenagers who 1: did not know the franchise before SFAd; 2: were overwhelmingly interested in Krystal due to teenage furry sex appeal and not the characters the the series already established; 3: were making the previous two facts no small matter.

 

However, are the SFAd fans to blame for the fandom collapse? I... don't totally think so. As much as I'm side by side DZ waving my old man stick around, the Old Blood was just as much to blame as the New Blood. The Old Fandom was not very receptive or willing to accomodate the newcomers; and while there is some understanding as to why (ie they were fucking obnoxious 13 year olds with E-boners for Krystal), the Old Fandom definitely fell into the tired old trap of "ITS NOT THE SAME AS I USED TO KNOW BAWWW" and just packed up and left. Once all the major players fell off the net (Puffy, Rita, China, Juju, and soooo many more) then it was just left to the New Blood to sort of organize themselves without any frame work.... and as their interest was moreso a short term investment than a long one (ie Krystal's ta-tas) they did not stick together very long, and that is apparent with the collapse of the KLA just a few years after its creation. (Ok, technically the KLA is still around, but its a goddamn ghost town. It hit its peak in 2002 - 2004, died in 2005, revived itself for a while in 2006, and slowly declined from 2007 until 2010. There's a reason I made SF-O my new home, besides the fact I was mostly just trolling the KLA.)

 

The quality of the games has done little to repair the fandom as well. SFAd was a dissapointment, and the fun soon wore off. The Old fandom never really liked it to begin with, and the New fandom quickly lost interest. Assault was gobshite, and did little to create new interest, just barely keeping the New fandom together. Then Command came around and EVERYONE hated that thing and that's been 8 years ago, amazingly, so now all that is left are us hard core loser nerds and friends who hang out more for the people than the franchise... and this isn't even getting into how social networking changed how fandoms even operate in the new 2010s (fansites and forums are a dying breed, most activity belongs to things like Tumblr now).

 

tl;dr Old fans were a reclusive cool kids club who didn't like the sperglord New fans (by the time SFAd had came out the Old fans were in their late teens and early 20s) who were dumbass teenagers who lacked any sense of organization or long-lasting interest to keep the fandom growing strong after the Old fans ran away to their fallout shelters. Three bad games in a row did not help this matter, nor did the changing nature of fandom networking. The End.

[LoneWolf]

Ironically, I joined 'during' the fall of the fanbase, after Command came out. For young me, that game was the bomb, especially having never experienced any of the other games. I found this site whilst I believe looking up Krystal fanart (look, we're all fucking guilty of it at some point or another) and got hooked. Shortly, maybe 3 months later, I joined the forums. Hell, we were still on the old board format, pre-IPB. That was neato as fuck. Easy to use, accessible, great.

 

I made a lot of stupid posts. Made people mad. Hell, my name is LoneWolf. Weaboo-ass name if I've ever heard one. But I'm proud of it. It's my voice moniker for those that know me on Steam, and something I still identify with, even to this day. This was during a time when dA still rocked Sonic fanart all the time and furries weren't whiny asshats begging for attention, just a bunch of weaboo shits with carmelldansen ringtones on their hand-me-down Motorola Razr V2s. SF-O formally introduced me to the fandom, and whilst I was first skeptical, I think that the furry fandom had no small hand in being the weird, vile glue that held some parts of the StarFox fandom together.

 

So I guess I'm a new-old fandom guy. That first run of SF64 on emulator, man, I'll never forget it. Then came SF SNES. Then every other game, well, save one. To this day, I still haven't touched Adventures. Fuck that game. My favorite is 64, but somehow Command still holds a special place in my heart. I found this gem of a series and an incredible community. I guess I'm at something like 4 years on here now.

 

For me, the 'death' of the fandom just signaled a growing closer of all those that held on for dear life and begged for new games yearly, that put up with the disappointment of E3 after E3 after E3. The die hard fans remained whilst the more casual flaked out and got bored. It's something that I felt kept the community unique. I've never ventured beyond SF-O's borders for StarFox-related stuff. I don't think I ever will.

 

Honestly, it'll be interesting to see if the new game is good. If it is, we're looking at a replenished community of die-hard fans. If not, we're looking at a deluge of weaboo-ass 10 year olds that love whatever strange OTP they make up from whatever new characters exist.

 

My body is ready.

 

Also I got really good at articulating my posts and then I got really bad at it again because I stopped giving a shit. Hello new me.

[Layeyes]

(beware there's probably loads of typos and grammar errors. sorry my English can suck hardcore) 

 

Ya know I really like this forum it's really has some rich history too it I mean reading up on this stuff is so fascinating.

great read thus far. after joining up with SFO well after Finding AL well basically just studying up on a bunch of StarFox content.

in relations to doing more research to do get SFLL going. I later found out that this Site.

[DZComposer]

For the record, I don't solely blame the SFAd fans for what happened. Honestly my little comic edit is actually a pretty accurate portrayal of my views on what happened.

New peeps come, obsessed with a shiny object, and the oldies go all "GET OFF MY DAMN LAWN" and everything falls apart. Really, my views on it aren't that different from Rob's to be honest.

That said, though, there were real problems in the fanbase before the SFAd fans came in. They were merely the catalyst. The fall of Papetoon (starfox.org's original forum), the subsequent fall of the Mouth Off Refugee Camp, the splits from Starfox.org that created Lylat.net and OTG and the continued downward spiral of all three sites, from epic "FUCK. THIS. SHIT." ending of Lylat.net to the slow deaths of OTG and the renewed starfox.org. Starfox.org didn't know what it wanted to be, Lylat.net was the "KEEP OFF MY LAWN HQ," and OTG was the experiment in internet anarchy that failed and became the "alternate KEEP OFF MY LAWN HQ"

Sometimes I wonder how SF-O has managed to stay alive all this time. I can't speak for the sf-o.com days, but since I've been involved running the place there hasn't been a major rift of consequence. Yeah, there was that "Small Fanatical Group" that left, but they didn't really split the community.

But, hey, I've been happy with our small corner of the internet. Sure, most of us are newer fans, but we've had old timers from starfox.org, like Fana McCloud and even the founder, Dermot, pay us a visit. Some oldies from OTG, such as Juju, also stopped-by. We've even had Fox's SF64 voice actor surprise us >by coming for a day, but we scared him off. lol

[Robert Monroe]

Let's not forget according to guys like Dermot, once upon a time the Old Blood was the SNES fans and the New Blood were the SF64 junkies. I've only heard of the many fan fights over why Fara was not in SF64... hehe.

[Terramax]

The quality of the games has done little to repair the fandom as well. SFAd was a dissapointment, and the fun soon wore off. The Old fandom never really liked it to begin with, and the New fandom quickly lost interest. Assault was gobshite, and did little to create new interest, just barely keeping the New fandom together. Then Command came around and EVERYONE hated that thing and that's been 8 years ago, amazingly, so now all that is left are us hard core loser nerds and friends who hang out more for the people than the franchise...

 

I think this is nonsense. Allow me to indulge in another angle.

 

Firstly, do people honestly think the first two installments play better than the new ones? Really? Because they don't. Not by today's standards. Heck, the first game was merely a novelty 3D game. The framerate is headache inducing. And the single player in SF64 lacks depth and gameplay variety, where it counts most.

 

Has it not occured to people that popularity dwindled simply because Star Fox went out of fashion?

 

Did people come out in droves to buy the remake on 3DS, what with it being one of the few titles to come out at launch, and highly rated reviews to boot? Most people who bought it weren't even aware it was a remake, or at least were too young to have experienced a Star Fox game the first time round. These people may have enjoyed what it supposed to be the 2nd, or 1st, best in the series and yet I imagine few enjoyed the title enough to sign up to Star Fox forums.

 

Even if Nintendo continued to make railshooters ala the first two games during the NGC and DS era, in top quality, there's no doubt they wouldn't have faired any better. Other games in the field such as Panzer Dragoon Orta and Sin & Punishment 2, superior titles than any Star Fox rail shooter, didn't set the world on fire either, despite reaching outstanding scores. Rail shooters just don't sell. And Star Fox has always been a 2nd tier franchise for Nintendo (3rd tier even).

 

Also note that the supposed fall ties with the peak of the PS2' dominance on the market (and the introduction of the Classic Xbox). There were other games many fans had obviously chosen to sink their time into instead. Many Nintendo and SF fans of yesteryear simply moved on into Microsoft and Playstation territory and continued their passion with their respective games instead.

It's simple: why would someone who doesn't have Star Fox attached to their childhood invest in the series during the post Gamecube era when bigger titles like Halo, Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy, or even Zelda offered so much more to fans?

 

Star Fox' stories pale in comparison to the modern, relevant titles of today. So, taking those two factors into account, there's no reason why anyone outside the niche would stick around in a Star Fox website unless of course, like you said, they had an attachment to the community.

 

OK, Command is apparently rubbish (although it does have its fans). But Adventures and Assault are about as good as any previous installments. Their lack of success largely comes down to the Gamecube itself being a failure, and there being little to no advertisement (particularly in the latter's case).

 

The supposed degredation of the series' quality is something that only those viewing the first two titles with very big rose tainted glasses genuinly believe. Ask anyone who didn't play them back in the day how they think the first two installments stand up by today's standards will likely tell you they're terrible. By the time I played Star Fox 64 in around 97, I was already of the opinion that Panzer Dragoon did it better (because it did).

 

I know my opinion isn't what a lot of people want to read, but I think just about any fan community of an age old video game series has to understand that much of the continued support is largely based around nostalgia, but interested dies when people grow up and commitments or more relevant media becomes available to them.

[LazerMaster5]

I grew up in the PS2 generation of gaming, so I don't have nostalgia tied to this series. However, I will have to say, the pre-GCN games are better. SF Adventures is just some crappy adventure game with the Star Fox name slapped on it, and while Assault is fun, it does not hold up to the game play of SF64. While I like SF643D the best, that is still a remastering of the N64 classic. Sorry, Terramax, but the older games are better.

[Robert Monroe]

I think this is nonsense. Allow me to indulge in another angle.

 

Firstly, do people honestly think the first two installments play better than the new ones? Really? Because they don't. Not by today's standards. Heck, the first game was merely a novelty 3D game. The framerate is headache inducing. And the single player in SF64 lacks depth and gameplay variety, where it counts most.

 

Yes, actually. Yes they do.

 

Starfox was a novelty, but it honestly was a fairly good one. It isn't spectacular by today's standards, but it delivers an entertaining experience with a kick ass music score in a short easily ingested 30 minute experience.

 

Starfox 64... just read this:

 

There's a LOT going on in SF64 that makes it good, and there IS a reason why people still like it today. Its just ultimately very subtle and sublime details you never really realize until you think about it.

 

BY CONTRAST, Adventures is a pretty to look at but dragging to experience linear "adventure" game with an obviously tacked on ending; Assault fails to even figure out that a fast paced space shooter should be fast paced... or in space, and Command thought it was a good idea to control the whole game with the stylus, which was the very anti-thesis of fun. Also, all three of these games tried to focus WAY too hard on story, and all three of them suffered for it.

 

 

 

 

Has it not occured to people that popularity dwindled simply because Star Fox went out of fashion?

 

However, this I agree with. However, I say Starfox fell out of fashion because Starfox hasn't had a game anyone loves since 1997.

(Though is it really out of fashion? People complaining about Starfox is apparently popular enough for Nintendo to make fun of it at this year's E3. Hm.)

 

 

 

 

Even if Nintendo continued to make railshooters ala the first two games during the NGC and DS era, in top quality, there's no doubt they wouldn't have faired any better. Other games in the field such as Panzer Dragoon Orta and Sin & Punishment 2, superior titles than any Star Fox rail shooter, didn't set the world on fire either, despite reaching outstanding scores. Rail shooters just don't sell. And Star Fox has always been a 2nd tier franchise for Nintendo (3rd tier even).

 

Honestly, no one is saying Starfox is gonna set the world on fire. SF64 didn't do it either. The Starfox fandom is rather aware for the most part at their second place on the Nintendo pecking order, but most of us are happy with it that way. You seem to be misunderstanding what it is we even want as a fandom for Starfox. No one wants waves (supposedly Adventures was gonna be that wave but yeah see how that turned out), we just want a game that gets back to basics and doesn't suck.

 

 

 

 

Also note that the supposed fall ties with the peak of the PS2' dominance on the market (and the introduction of the Classic Xbox). There were other games many fans had obviously chosen to sink their time into instead. Many Nintendo and SF fans of yesteryear simply moved on into Microsoft and Playstation territory and continued their passion with their respective games instead.

It's simple: why would someone who doesn't have Star Fox attached to their childhood invest in the series during the post Gamecube era when bigger titles like Halo, Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy, or even Zelda offered so much more to fans?

 

Because the games they were offered were bad. Duh. (I played all these titles, and yeah, can confirm, I stopped giving a shit about Starfox because I had -better things to invest with-. People quit franchises because the games get BAD. What is it you're arguing again?)

 

 

 

 

 But Adventures and Assault are about as good as any previous installments. Their lack of success largely comes down to the Gamecube itself being a failure, and there being little to no advertisement (particularly in the latter's case).

 

No, they weren't. Adventures and Assault have well defined, obvious, GIANT HULKING HOLES OF FLAWS in them. See above for what I've already said on the matter.

 

And the Gamecube was a failure? I don't know numbers very well, but that puppy popped out some of the most well beloved games of its generation. I find it hard to call the system that brought us Metroid Prime and Wind Waker a "failure".

 

Honestly, I'm not sure what you're getting at. What are you blaming for the fandom collapse, exactly? I wasn't JUST blaming the games, we both seem to agree that the newer games failed to deliver fresh enough experiences to keep the fandom thriving. But you say the GCN era games were on par with SF64... and so are you saying SF64 is bad? No, SF64 is not bad. But SF64 could not keep a fandom alive all by itself; NO single game can keep a fandom alive on its own no matter HOW good it is. You think the Zelda fandom would still be thriving today if every game after OoT was a piece of shit? No way! 

 

The fandom died because people didn't want to get along, extend new friendships, and stay in their circle jerks; all the while the quality of the games rapidly dropped which didn't really give any incentive for new fans to get involved or old fans to still give a shit. Folks like DZ and I are the very last remains of a VERY old guard of fans, and we're not even part of the oldest fandom blood.

 

[Giladen]

Firstly, do people honestly think the first two installments play better than the new ones? Really? Because they don't. Not by today's standards. Heck, the first game was merely a novelty 3D game. The framerate is headache inducing. And the single player in SF64 lacks depth and gameplay variety, where it counts most.

 

Unlike Assault and Adventures right? Or do you support linearity and a lower difficulty?

 

Also, Adventures with Assault have lower scores on Metacritic and Game Rankings than SF SNES and SF 64. Especially Assault. Sorry, but the majority doesn't say that Assault and Adentures played as well as 64.

 

Again with blaming the Gamecube's install base. SSBM sold more than the SSB on the 64, the DS Zeldas and Skyward Sword have all sold less than Twilight Princess on the Wii, etc.

[Drasiana]

I "officially" joined the fanbase when I was like 12, around when Adventures came out. I don't remember the divide on Arwing Landing being so much old fans/new fans, but furries/non-furries. There were plenty of furries (and post-64 game fans) on-staff but everyone wanted to kind of avoid the reputation that came alongside Krystal's sudden insurgence of, erm, "fans". This made a lot of fanboys sour and there were some pretty hilarious cries of "fursecution" because of it. After some time the site really did become more of an insular friend group, I dunno if it was just that we didn't buy into the "fandom mentality" so much as we were just some folks who met through a common interest and didn't feel like engaging in the six thousandth discussion on [overdone Star Fox conversation of choice], and unfortunately didn't have much patience for newer/younger/significantly more hyperactive members. There was more of a noticeable divide when Command came out, and after that a lot of people left, feeling either scorned by Nintendo or some other goofy inconsequential reason. Others just went to school and got jobs and the site kinda fell by the wayside. Most of the new regs tended to be crazy people (like the guy that claimed assassins were after him to steal his dark and edgy fangame idea) or spambots. Not sure why Stealth keeps paying the site fees since he's off being a Successful Adult now.

 

Fandoms are weird.

[Patch93]

Firstly, do people honestly think the first two installments play better than the new ones? Really? Because they don't. Not by today's standards. Heck, the first game was merely a novelty 3D game. The framerate is headache inducing.

 

Maybe it's because I've played the game to death, but I've honestly never found the framerate to be that much of an issue. Yes, it's not perfect, but it's very easy to get used to. There were attempts at 3D polygon graphics on both the SNES and Genesis/Megadrive that ran far worse than how Star Fox did. (Hard Drivin being one good example.)

 

Mind you, this isn't connected to nostalgia. I didn't play the game until around 2006/2007.

[InfinitySquared]

I have to agree with the fact that rail-shooters just won't fly (excuse the pun ) in the modern gaming world. Nowadays, people want huge open worlds with loads of exploration and action, detailed graphics, and fleshed out stories and characters with all sorts of easter eggs and mythologies. They look to the online gameplay modes for replayability, not branching paths done by shooting X amount of bogeys in a level. Starfox has absolutely nothing to offer in those regards. Is Corneria just one gigantic planet-sized city? What's the deal with Solar? Do people live on Finchina or MacBeth? And, let's face it, the characters are one-dimensional at best. Fox is the leader with a dead daddy, Falco is a street-urchin turned pilot who just acts like a dick to everyone, Peppy is a half-senile giver of one-liner wisdom, and Slippy is just a brat who can fix things. That's it. Those are barely even secondary characters at best. I would know more about a person I chat with at a bus stop for 5 minutes than I do about these characters.

[Drasiana]

Kid Icarus: Uprising had a huge focus on rail shooting and it was extremely well-received, and your questions about the planets are weird because all of them have had answers. The characters are poorly-developed but they had an interesting-enough basis and beginning to be memorable to anyone who has played the games.

 

Now why is a thread about chronologizing the fandom turning into a big circlejerk about which games are/aren't better? Even in terms of the eventual "fall" of the fandom correlating to lack of interest in following games, you don't even need to argue about that since It doesn't matter if you agree with the reasons why. Less people played the games, older fans lost interest, newer fans lost places to hang out since older communities dried up, there you go.

[Gestalt]

As for the site today, I like what some of you are getting at with the overdone/depleted SF conversations. While I don't get on thinking: ight guys let's roll dem space dog threads out- go, go, go. AAAH, NON SF THREAD KILL IT WITH FIRE...I do have input for new/rekindled fans, if they want to discuss something.

 

Now, I do come across people off site who too had SF brush against their lives and are interested for something new. Ah, but that interest really isn't much more than passing conversation, or at least, nothing we can expect to jump start an entire forum with. Perhaps, in the coming year I can proudly point new interests here. If not I still have you ding-dongs, which is something to be happy about-- a lot of you in this very thread are pretty damn consistent members, even when we are ass dry, yeh, I still see your name down there.

 

Which reminds me of something very disturbing, I've never been here for a completely new SF game release. How do I even what?

 

EDIT::SIDE-NOTE:: And I'll add, some of the community stuff we churn out here is superb.