NickFox Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Hi guys Ok, so we all know the team has been at 4 members for most of the series history. But I think its time to expand the team's size, to 5 or even 6 , as in Star Fox 2. How many members should Star Fox have, and if more than 4, who would you add to the team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfinitySquared Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 *Inserts OCs Jared the well-endowed sexy gay Wolf/Fox hybrid with a tragic past and Gertrude the awesome busty confident but subservient SparkleCat that everyone loves and has no flaws whatsoever and is totally not wish fulfillment of a broken over-weight debt-strapped talentless 23 year old with no possible chance of a romantic relationship due to various mental disorders and a broken childhood that forbids him from forming normal human relationships so now he's stuck writing StarfFox fanfiction because that's just silly right?* In all seriousness, nix Slippy and Krystal and bring in Bill and Katt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickFox Posted January 31, 2015 Author Share Posted January 31, 2015 I'd move Slippy to the " stay on the Great Fox at all times role ' peppy was for Assault. I'd add katt to the team, to prevent krystal from being the token chick, to give falco more screen time. because who could resist having Falco and Katt banter over lots of stuff. We could develop the relationships between Katt-Krystal and Falco-Fox, similar to how Fox and Falco acted towards each other in the comics. krystal could be the opposite of Katt, whos an aggressive, go get-em! type, and Krystal's not. Through Katt, we could learn more of Krystal's past- like what the heck happened to Cerenia? where was it?. etc as Krystal trusts Katt more and opens up to her. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazerMaster5 Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 I like Katt, and I feel Krystal needs some real character, as for the moment, she just feels like a pretty face, attractive but with no personality. And we need to kill Slippy. The stupid toad always has a bogey on his tail, and his voice is annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patch93 Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 I think Fox, Falco, Peppy and Slippy make a perfect and iconic team and it shouldn't be changed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazerMaster5 Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 I think Fox, Falco, Peppy and Slippy make a perfect and iconic team and it shouldn't be changed. Yeah, but unless this is a reboot from SF64, you would still want Krystal in there, as her omission may raise questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArwingFan Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 How about the ability to customize the team from a roster of characters, kinda like Starfox 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickFox Posted January 31, 2015 Author Share Posted January 31, 2015 Peppy aged off the team imo, which is why Assault had him on the Great Fox. i think 5 or even 6 would be better than just the same 4 players.having a couple girls is preferable than all team members being guys.i think star fox 2 had an even split of gender. if you are going to have it be 4. then have it be Fox, falco katt and Krystal. 2 boys, 2 girls. slippy and Peppy can comunicate from the Great Fox on missions. have situations, where falco saves Katt, or Katt saves Krystal at your direction. ' Ie fox; Hey katt, blow up that bogie chasing Krystal will you? I'm trying to shake the enemies behind me .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roonifer Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 having a couple girls is preferable than all team members being guys. So you're saying you prefer Krystal, an unexerienced mary-sue foreigner that doesn't even speak the same language as Fox to stay on the team and protect the Lylat System, versus a sausage-fest of professionals that have actually done this before, all for the sake of gender equality? Assholiness aside, I don't really care if the characters are male or female. I just prefer they actually fit into the setting. While I don't think the original 64 team needs any tweaking, I wouldn't mind seeing more of Katt and the revival of Miyu and Fay and maybe even the inclusion of Fara would be amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drasiana Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Why does everyone want Katt on Star Fox? She's perfectly fine as a roguish outlaw and adds more to the story from there than she would on the team. Keep her with the Free Birds. The Star Fox team members really are meant to fit into unique niches so the only reason to expand them would be if the scope of the gameplay expanded. Slippy, Peppy, Falco, and ROB all have a specific job they do well. That dynamic was goofed up in Assault when Krystal was added to the mix, because she didn't entirely replace Peppy nor did she bring anything new to the table. She was a character that was just sort of there, and we don't want to have that just for the sake of making the team bigger. Fay and Miyu worked in this, because they were given an entirely new type of ship to pilot. And honestly, if we were going to get new team members, I'd say just bring them back--new characters for a new role. Everyone else is too ingrained in what they're doing already and imo Krystal should be tossed onto Star Wolf permanently since she has better chemistry with them (or just do her own thing). Amanda and Lucy could also be re-purposed for the new role, since they're pretty much blank slates who aren't super integral to anything they're a part of right now. If Fara was re-introduced I'd prefer she stay in the Cornerian Army for the sake of world expansion, but I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to having her on Star Fox either. Based on what we know about SFU--which isn't a lot--I figure that there may be a way to squeeze in a couple more folks with the way the co-op seems to work. If "one pilots, one shoots" is reconciled intradiagetically then we might have a deal where you get two pilots in one ship, which would theoretically be a new person if you need to maintain status quo with your teammates on the field. Of course they'll probably just say "other player is a robot hth" like they're doing with the Arwingcopter thing. Another option would be to go the DA:I route and have a clear split between companions/advisers but that would require a broader game. Coming back to the hub and having some non-field characters to talk to about missions or different upgrades would be cool. So you're saying you prefer Krystal, an unexerienced mary-sue foreigner that doesn't even speak the same language as Fox to stay on the team and protect the Lylat System, versus a sausage-fest of professionals that have actually done this before, all for the sake of gender equality? What--you're making an intradiagetic attack for an extradiagetic problem. Yes, Star Fox needs more ladies. Yes, Krystal is a pretty bad character. The answer isn't "kill Krystal and let the Real Men control the story again because they know what they're doing!", it's "un-shittify Krystal and/or introduce some more female characters who don't suck". 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unoservix Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 intradiagetic oooooh look at you and your fancy words miss "i went to film school neener neener" anyway i'm not really sure what's wrong with the current four Star Fox pilots, five i guess if you add in Krystal, that necessitates adding more pilots. the close-knit nature of the team was one of the primary draws in Star Fox 64, which they just kinda screwed up in subsequent games. so i'd rather they go back to their roots in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roonifer Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 or introduce some more female characters who don't suck". I'm pretty sure that's what I said. I dunno, I find I don't care much about gender as everyone else seems to these days. Give me a boy character or a girl character; if it's well-written and believable, their plumbing doesn't really matter to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FromAnotherWorld Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 I can't see any need for more members on StarFox. The more characters you include the less time you have for each of their character-development, especially if they serve similar roles. Sure, each of the members of StarFox have very different abilities, personalities and pasts (no one really knows a lot about) but in game they more or less do the same thing, namely aid Fox in his missions. Yes, including one more character most probably wouldn't do much harm but the current team doesn't lack anything important therefore I don't think it'd improve anything. Also, I have to agree with Dras when it comes to Katt for the same reason they already mentioned. There's no use in adding every character to the StarFox team if they already have a more unique purpose elsewhere and not having every ally-character on the same team also allows for more diverse character-interactions. Krystal truly wasn't introduced very well into the series, however that's mainly a matter of Adventures being awkward and Assault being much too short and not fleshed out enough. If her telepathy was used in a proper way and not just randomly thrown in when they ran out of other ideas - like when she sensed the Apparoid attack on Sauria - it could be credible that she's a valuable and unique asset to the team. One thing I however absolutely can't agree with Dras on is tossing Krystal on StarWolf. At least in Adventures she seemed to be a nice person with moral standings. I don't think that would go well with StarWolf. Sure, Command-Krystal can be put on StarWolf, but she is a highly inconsistent character. Even in the different storylines of Command itself she doesn't always have the same personality. By the way, I do not see any need for more female characters at all. StarFox is a mercenary-team and that's presumably a job more men will do than women. If there will be new characters in StarFox WiiU or reused characters from Command or StarFox2 I hope they'll make sense but I don't really care if they're male or female. If anything, I wouldn't mind if a new character was added to StarWolf, that is if it's Panther and not Andrew and Pigma in the next game. StarWolf basically doesn't seem too incomplete either but since they're one pilot less than StarFox I guess adding another wouldn't do any harm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giladen Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Krystal is baggage from Dinosaur Planet that none of the development teams after Adventures knew what to do with. Even in Adventures she was used as an excuse to get Fox a staff and to be somebody Fox rescues. Frankly, I'm expecting SF Wii U to not have Krystal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drasiana Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Intradiagetic Yeah I couldn't think of a better, less-pretentious word for what I was trying to convey. Intra/extradiagetic refer to, essentially, the in-universe and out-of-universe explanations for things that happen in fictional stories. For example, the intradiagetic reason that Krystal was not playable in Adventures past the prologue is because she got trapped in a crystal. The extradiagetic explanation is that she was cut out because the game's rocky development wound up limiting what they could do with her in terms of time and budget. Or you get things like an actor accidentally leaving their wedding band on for a shot in a tv show (extradiagetic) and the fans wind up creating bizarre theories as to the character being secretly married (intradiagetic). Does that make sense? I'm pretty sure that's what I said. I dunno, I find I don't care much about gender as everyone else seems to these days. Give me a boy character or a girl character; if it's well-written and believable, their plumbing doesn't really matter to me. Media representation is an important thing with enough studies to it to show that it doesn't really matter if you in particular don't give a shit, the disproportionately low number of female characters in media has a demonstrably negative effect on the audience when it comes to their perceptions of women, or if they are a woman, their perception of themselves. I know this is Star Fox, of all things, but the point is it can only help, not harm, if more female characters are included in the main roster (provided they are treated as well as the male characters, which they haven't been so far, but that just means the writers need to put in a better effort and not just revert to a boys-only club). One thing I however absolutely can't agree with Dras on is tossing Krystal on StarWolf. At least in Adventures she seemed to be a nice person with moral standings. I don't think that would go well with StarWolf. Sure, Command-Krystal can be put on StarWolf, but she is a highly inconsistent character. Even in the different storylines of Command itself she doesn't always have the same personality.= But Star Wolf is also shown to have "moral standings". They're not even villains in any game past 64. If we're doing some sort of hard reboot where Star Wolf is back to being pure undiluted baddy it wouldn't work, sure, but that's not how the series has treated them for a while. Krystal works better with them because they're the only ones who seem to understand her and how out-of-place she feels in Lylat--her relationships with the Star Fox team members are painfully superficial and filtered entirely through her relationship with Fox, but she seems to have real relationships with the Star Wolf guys, and that's nice to see (okay, Panther/Krystal was really badly written but honestly no worse than Fox/Krystal was). Anyways, yeah, her character is inconsistent, but why does that mean we have to settle for the generic do-gooder waifu when we could go a more complex route with her? That's like, wildly off-topic, but anyway tossing her onto Star Wolf does even out the team numbers again, so that's another reason I prefer her there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fureox Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Assault had my favorite team. I liked the idea of Peppy retiring and becoming the new taccom guy. General Pepper should be focused on the Cornerian Military, not a ragtag mercenary group he hired (even if they get more shit done than the entire military combined. Regularly.) So yeah. Fox, Falco, Slippy, Krystal. I don't even want to go into the character aspect because none of them have any, so I can throw a blanket and say: give them all some characterization. There, done, no need for in depth analysis, cause you can't really analyze a void. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roonifer Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Media representation is an important thing with enough studies to it to show that it doesn't really matter if you in particular don't give a shit, the disproportionately low number of female characters in media has a demonstrably negative effect on the audience when it comes to their perceptions of women, or if they are a woman, their perception of themselves. I'm not trying to make anybody give a shit. This is a forum thread that asked for opinions and I gave my opinion. Also, I don't let Krystal--or any female character represented in any media for that matter--change the way I feel about my vagina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arminius H O Fiddywinks Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 If there's going to be any expanding to the team, it'll probably be with brand-new characters with the prerequisite ambiguous backgrounds. The characters from Star Fox and Star Fox 2 do not exist in the current canon because they are unloved pieces of shit we're going on the canon since Star Fox 64, unless Nintendo reboots the franchise with the characters from the NES days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drasiana Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 I'm not trying to make anybody give a shit. This is a forum thread that asked for opinions and I gave my opinion. Also, I don't let Krystal--or any female character represented in any media for that matter--change the way I feel about my vagina. What is it with internet people thinking that they are perfectly fine to attack someone else's "opinion" but the second anyone disagrees with them their opinion is sacred and above all discussion or criticism Art has impact--why do you think the propaganda industry was, and still is, such a big thing? I'm glad that at the end of the day you can sleep soundly knowing you're not as stupid as all those other girls who would like to see more well-written girls in the stories they consume, but as I said, media representation has a documented effect in a pretty significantly-sized audience so it really doesn't matter how much more enlightened you are than everyone else when it comes to the broader effect of media choices. More ladies on Star Fox is good, bring on the ladies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roonifer Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 What is it with internet people thinking that they are perfectly fine to attack someone else's "opinion" but the second anyone disagrees with them their opinion is sacred and above all discussion or criticism Because that wasn't the point of my original post in the first place. Read our conversation again and you'll find that I am in agreement with you: Star Fox--and almost anything else ever--needs a better representation of the female gender. Why are arguing your own point? I've been trying to shoot down every attempt you've made to start an actual debate with me because again, this is a forum. Any post here does not and will not affect the way media represents the female gender, even if you do care and are seeking to change that. Gender has become an incredibly dangerous subject lately and I'm going to end this discussion before it spirals out of control. I'd rather we not exhaust ourselves and fall too far away from the thread's actual topic, anyways. If anything, I hope they keep Peppy and bring him back into the fray. He's always been one of my favorites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze the Sage Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 haven't read through the whole topic just yet, but I honestly, I *loved* what they did with Peppy in Assault. It showed honest to god character progression as the series went on. Peppy was already directly stated to be a veteran, a generation above Fox and the crew by having flown with James. He's *older* than them. It only makes sense that as the rest of the crew ages, so will Peppy. As he gets older, it makes sense for him to graduate from pilot duty into a supporting role, providing vital intel and mission control assistance. At the same time, he got a couple moments to shine, and show that while he was getting old, he hadn't run out of fire just yet, hopping back into the Arwing to save Pepper, and even diving the already-failing Great Fox into the barrier to smash open a path. And he STILL makes it out more or less intact. I wouldn't change what Peppy grew into with Assault for the world. I would be open to new additions to the team, but not if they're being added purely for the sake of padding numbers. At the same time, I don't see the existing side-characters joining up with the actual team, as Bill's actual military rather than freelance, and Katt's far too independant (and Falco too uncomfortable with her around) for her to become a permanent fixture. If they found a good way to resurrect Faye or Miyu, maybe, but they would need to be developed well. Not to mention they need to decide what the hell they're doing with Krystal, as she is a hardcore Bechdel failure - even when they tried to give her more personality in Command, she just went from "Fox's girlfriend" to "Fox's angry ex-girlfriend". I'm not asking for a straight-up "passes the Bechdel test" scenario out of Star Fox, but give her *some* sort of personality that isn't directly based on her relationship with Fox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drasiana Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Because that wasn't the point of my original post in the first place. Read our conversation again and you'll find that I am in agreement with you: Star Fox--and almost anything else ever--needs a better representation of the female gender. Why are arguing your own point? I've been trying to shoot down every attempt you've made to start an actual debate with me because again, this is a forum. Any post here does not and will not affect the way media represents the female gender, even if you do care and are seeking to change that. Gender has become an incredibly dangerous subject lately and I'm going to end this discussion before it spirals out of control. I'd rather we not exhaust ourselves and fall too far away from the thread's actual topic, anyways. You took a weird potshot at NickFox because he said he'd like to see more female characters on the team, and then created a huff about how you don't care what gender a character is and don't "need someone to tell you how to feel about your vagina". How does any of that, to you, appear to be agreeing with what I was saying? But whatever, yeah, dumb derail Peppy stuff this is good and why I am hesitant about throwing Peppy back into active duty in anything outside of a reboot. He was the one character in Assault who was handled really well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Orange Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 If I can safely put my two cents in ... safely. I think that the standard double duo is efficient enough for the game in the sense that adding more characters would be a opportunity for accidents in say low quality characters or in just simple terms, Too many cooks in the kitchen. Unless it was like more of an RPG format where you could have more teammates but could only choose (x) for a mission. Now thinking about that idea more, that's a cool idea. Assault had my favorite team. I liked the idea of Peppy retiring and becoming the new taccom guy. General Pepper should be focused on the Cornerian Military, not a ragtag mercenary group he hired (even if they get more shit done than the entire military combined. Regularly.) Oh and this too. I fully agree with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickFox Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 i think it is that exact awkwardness with Falco around Katt that is so interesting, and could be mined for everything from character development to missions we could play. we need to give krystal a character she can relate to on the team other than Fox, and as others have said, her relationship with Fox hasnt exactly been handled well. krystal's personality imo needs a reboot going forward. not the stuff of command, even though her taking being kicked off the team very hard is realistic, it also leads to far too much drama. these guys are professionals after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giladen Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Why are we assuming that Krystal is in SF Wii U? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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