The Next Star Fox Game: Speculation and Ideas III

[Ori]

I think i have something to add here. Maybe will have some bias since i don't know much of the story SF64 or Command.

Well, like most would like to see, better physics would be better in Star Fox. I'm not asking Nintendo to hire Ph. D's, but seriously, things were messed up on Assault. Fox could jump over big crates, and falling from a building/airborne Arwing would do nothing? Seriously.

Realism isn't a problem but would be great. Apparently the flight suits are most definitely not spacesuits, but anyone ever seen SF in a mission in hostile atmospheres or in the vacuum of space? If they're planning to add this, maybe they will add space suits for these missions.

About Krystal, i'm sorta neutral towards her participation on the story, but I'd definitely be glad if the game explained more about her past and/or she more had serious participation (i.e. secondary protagonist), helping the team throughout the game in various ways, NOT something like Amy Rose from the Sonic franchise. But i'm definetly against turning her into Kursed. It just won't work for her. Aside from the crap spree about her, almost every fanfic/fanart/whatever involving her describes her as "the little kind good girl, heart of the team's emotional" and such. Turn her into a evil emo? Granted, will make sense as a Portal game without portals or GLaDOS, or Star Wars without Lightsabers. What i think that would work well is a story long enough to contain multiple story 'arcs' (chapters), still being linear, colliding into one single big ending. Not exactly like Ace Combat Zero, but something of the sorts.

I think that the gameplay should really have more options and things of the sorts. I think that would be ideal to not be shut into one single type of Arwing, but be able to choose more kinds of starfighters and weapons, or even better, choose the team's spacecraft and weapons, like in Ace Combat 5. Mlee/ground weapon selection would also be good. And again, like AC5, controlling team's strategy in-flight would be great. (I.e. Able to select team to split up and hunt for targets, cover/follow you, attack same target as you, etc) Also, open-world/free roaming or extra-vehicular missions (i.e. investigating crashed ship/abandoned space station) would add a bit more of interest to the game IMO and would add some more gameplay time.

And one thing that would be critical to implement into the game is a more deep storyline. The story may start at something like the outbreak of a civil war, a conspiracy of a terrorist org. later discovered (*cough*something something ace combat *cough*), or something of the sorts, but should affect the emotional and bring up the past of the characters or untold facts from the game's universe, and frankly, IMHO i'd like the characters to be more quirky. They just feel too... Standard.

Someone talked to me about the possibility about the encounter with humans in the next Star Fox. One thing i'm not really looking forward to is a human-various non-earth species. That would be very unlikely, and IMHO, would end up in another Adventures-y game, less freezing and more getting shot by stereotypical soldiers. (I mean, every single non-human protagonists space game that encounters humans either finds a pre-apocalypse society bound to think that anything that moves is a enemy, or worse, a mid-60's alternate Earth which would end up on less talk and more James Cameron's Avatar backwards.)

I have read somewhere about a custom character creation possibility. From what i've seen of SWTOR, STO and Skyrim, i'm not sure if this would be good or bad, but at least would be interesting IMO. But i'm definitely not wanting a mute player character/character that only speaks text lines.

Well, that's just my opinion.

[HeatherGrace]

For rerealeses I'd say they make a HD remaster of Adventures (if possible?) and Assault for the WiiU. But what I hope most is that they make a blasting 'last' StarFox that could get a sequel and wouldn't mean the end of the series. What they done with SF64 3D was just making the fans happy for the lowest price as possible. In 'Game' I read that Miyamoto said that SF64 3D would be the last StarFox game he would work on if it didn't sell at high rates, but a couple months ago I read on IGN that he wanted a Metroid or either StarFox on the U? Did he change his opinion, was he misunderstood on the point in Game or did he never think or say that at all?

But since Nintendo doesn't do a whole lot with the StarFox franchise... there are a lotta holes in it. Imagine that StarFox is a detective in bookform. Every game is 1 chapter of the same story. Imagine that your best friend ripped the last pages out to tease you and burned them in a fire. That what StarFox atm looks like to me. Where is James? Is he alive? Will we ever actully see him? I've written a whole storyline based on these questions, but I had to write it in Dutch for my portfolio for game design so it's not much of a use to put it here since nobody wil understand it, but I might translate it to English some time, just for you guys ^^

[Ala1n-J]

OrbiterSpore, I pretty much agree with your idea of a new SF game. There are just two parts I'd like to develop :

Well, like most would like to see, better physics would be better in Star Fox. I'm not asking Nintendo to hire Ph. D's, but seriously, things were messed up on Assault. Fox could jump over big crates, and falling from a building/airborne Arwing would do nothing? Seriously.

Realism isn't a problem but would be great. Apparently the flight suits are most definitely not spacesuits, but anyone ever seen SF in a mission in hostile atmospheres or in the vacuum of space? If they're planning to add this, maybe they will add space suits for these missions.

Definiltely YES! for realistic physics. On the spacesuits, that could actually be used to differ military pilots from mercenaries who would use affordable flight suits, to add a bit of "daredevil" feeling. Like in SW, where imperial pilots wore integral spacesuits, while rebel pilots, to emphasize their courage (and perhaps because of lack of money), wore flight suits. When it comes to realism, I'm concerned about the characters should look like their animal counterparts (though I don't mean it in a hyper-realistic way). I'm tired of Fox and Wolf looking like siblings (when foxes and wolves are not from the same genus), Falco looking like, to quote Fredryk, a "bird thing", etc.

I have read somewhere about a custom character creation possibility. From what i've seen of SWTOR, STO and Skyrim, i'm not sure if this would be good or bad, but at least would be interesting IMO. But i'm definitely not wanting a mute player character/character that only speaks text lines.

I'm not sure about putting this idea in the main story/campaign, but in multiplayer that can be fun. Creating your own pilot, playing with friends with each avatar's face in comlinks, redoing some missions with real teammates! Sounds like a good idea to me.

[Drasiana]

I actually really dislike the idea of being able to create your own character. Unless it's like, a multiplayer avatar or something, it kind of takes away from the, y'know, "Star Fox" aspect of Star Fox. To me that's either a game you put out after Star Fox is more solidified within its own canon, or you make a game in a separate series entirely.

[Ori]

OrbiterSpore, I pretty much agree with your idea of a new SF game. There are just two parts I'd like to develop :

[...]

Definiltely YES! for realistic physics. On the spacesuits, that could actually be used to differ military pilots from mercenaries who would use affordable flight suits, to add a bit of "daredevil" feeling. Like in SW, where imperial pilots wore integral spacesuits, while rebel pilots, to emphasize their courage (and perhaps because of lack of money), wore flight suits.[...]

I was thinking exactly the same thing. My point, though, was to add something more like the EV Suits from Star Trek Online (semi-custom) or the collectible space suit parts from the Space Camp (Wii) game, but the base idea is the same, i guess.

About the physics, something pseudo-science-y like the in-developement Space Citizen game would be close enough to perfect. At least for me it would be.

[...]

I'm not sure about putting this idea in the main story/campaign, but in multiplayer that can be fun. Creating your own pilot, playing with friends with each avatar's face in comlinks, redoing some missions with real teammates! Sounds like a good idea to me.

I actually really dislike the idea of being able to create your own character. Unless it's like, a multiplayer avatar or something, it kind of takes away from the, y'know, "Star Fox" aspect of Star Fox. To me that's either a game you put out after Star Fox is more solidified within its own canon, or you make a game in a separate series entirely.

What i thought is that in such an 'StarFox: Uber Edition Game' is that there would be actually, TWO storylines to follow, one singleplayer, with the Star Fox team (Fox, Falco, Krystal etc.) and one separate multiplayer online storyline, with your own character, but that it's still canon to the main one and/or to the previous titles. (Except Command, which for me is instantly deemed non-canon as it has multiple endings and last i recall can't have a actual 'best by popular choice' ending or whatsoever without frustrating other players.)

[Hidi]

I'd like to see more artwork possibly like Assault, but eliminate all the random borg effects (Falco's artwork....No.) I'd also like to see Krystal's artwork be something like the Star Fox team's. You'd think by now they'd have some form of uniform! How about 64? They had relative stuff in that game!

[Pgpaw3]

This might have already been said but I think 4 player co-op would be cool in the story mode. Each player can control 1 member of the team, and some secrets need co-op to be accessed.

[psy_commando]

You know, I just thought about how Nintendo would possibly execute the customizable character idea.

And then I got scared, because I remembered that for Nintendo custom character = Miis, these days ... :?

[The Shaper]

You know, I just thought about how Nintendo would possibly execute the customizable character idea.

And then I got scared, because I remembered that for Nintendo custom character = Miis, these days ...

I think the limit of "customizable characters" in Star Fox should end at interchangeable clothing, armor, or parts for the Landmasters and Arwings. Either for pizazz or actual functionality.

[Mr-Chris]

I always thought the only thing you would customize in a potential SF game would be your own aircraft for online play. Not so much the characters but the ship itself. And maybe a logo too a la MKDS or something. You could then change it's abilities; if it has stronger fire power then it's speed would decrease. Stuff like that.

[Hidi]

I think the limit of "customizable characters" in Star Fox should end at interchangeable clothing, armor, or parts for the Landmasters and Arwings. Either for pizazz or actual functionality.

That would be a cool thing to do though. Adding things like more powerful cannons to the Landmaster? Why couldn't they think of that for Assault?! Even then, you could per say switch outfits for Fox and have an outfit like his flight outfit which is optimized for flying, and a more agile one that could have slight penalties when used in the Arwing for example.

[ShutUpNavi]

If/when a new Star Fox comes out I hope they can implement something like the achievements and gallery in Metroid Prime 3. In addition to your overall score you would get points for completing optional challenges, like finding all the hidden flags in a level, or killing a boss fast enough. Then you could go to the menu and spend these points on things such as concept art, unlockable soundtracks, bumper stickers for your ship, and so on. 

Something like that could make the game much more replayable for those who love bonuses or beating their high score. 

[Hidi]

If/when a new Star Fox comes out I hope they can implement something like the achievements and gallery in Metroid Prime 3. In addition to your overall score you would get points for completing optional challenges, like finding all the hidden flags in a level, or killing a boss fast enough. Then you could go to the menu and spend these points on things such as concept art, unlockable soundtracks, bumper stickers for your ship, and so on.

Something like that could make the game much more replayable for those who love bonuses or beating their high score.

Yes, Additional things to add to replay value would be nice. That is another thing Star Fox has traditionally been known for. Well, if you look at Star Fox 64 3D right now though, they make you replay through the game double since there's two modes of the same game !

[Ori]

That would be a cool thing to do though. Adding things like more powerful cannons to the Landmaster? Why couldn't they think of that for Assault?! Even then, you could per say switch outfits for Fox and have an outfit like his flight outfit which is optimized for flying, and a more agile one that could have slight penalties when used in the Arwing for example.

^Seconded, plus something like suit abilities from STO would be good. (I.e. One has bonus for charged energy attacks, other is good for ballistic ones, other one with extra-heavy defense and attack, one optimized for vehicles like you mentioned, etc.)

And i think we all agree about how these would be unlocked/bought: credits system. Simple and classic; complete main and side quests and defeat enemies, sell unneeded items, buy new ones. Though i'm not sure how that would work in N's mind, considering what happened back there in Adventures...

And the gallery/achievement system is also a good point. What if it unlocked bonus missions or challenges, or maybe character bios as the story progressed, like in Sonic Generations? Or maybe also info for the planets or vehicles or whatever. IDK really.

But what really bugs me is about what will be SF's flagship; it blew up in Assault, so it may not be Great Fox in the next title. Maybe something more awesome, maybe not, or maybe N will make a Great Fox II. (Likely same appearance, only with revamped tech) What you guys think that would be best? I really don't know.

[ShutUpNavi]

If Nintendo makes a post-assault game then hopefully we don't see the Great Fox II that was in Command. Sorry, but that thing was ugly, not to mention it looked like a downgrade from the original flagship. Preferably Nintendo will come up with a new design, or if we want to count Command as canon they could upgrade to a Great Fox III. Here's some great concept art for what that could look like.    

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2011/298/6/4/star_fox_crew_and_oc__s_by_jecbrush-d4dw413.jpg 

[Sideways]

They still have a portion of the original Great Fox after Assault. Perhaps it will be rebuilt. I personally would like to see a game that comes BEFORE SF64. Maybe a prequel that explains what happens to James.

[Hidi]

Yes, that would be cool, as there are still many development possibilities in there. I see more potential in the 64-Adventures gap. Farewell Beloved Falco wasn't exactly the answer we need plotwise.

Also ShutUpNavi, your link is broken.

[ShutUpNavi]

Sorry about that link, this should fix it.

http://fav.me/d4dw413

I assume most of you have seen this already, but still it's an amazing piece of fan concept art in my opinion. I might even be ready to accept Command as canon if the next game looked that cool.

[Hidi]

Aaaaaiiiiieee! The proportions are a little awkward, but other than that, it's great artwork. I didn't mind the Assault artwork, but even that could have used some tweaks. I would like to see a mix of Assault and 64/Command artwork. 64 was traditional Star Fox, while Assault had a real nice style mix added into it. Just don't do Falco's suit the same way again. He belongs in flight gear.

[Ori]

I know that Namco is very frowned upon around here, but I'd like to point out a detail.

After suffering with having a bit of nostalgia, I checked a bit into the development of the AC series, and one thing I saw there is what I think that would make SF better:

"You can't make another game like this?!":

[...]

So then the initial development team members, collaborating with Dai Sato got together to plan the outline. There it was decided what the world would look like, how to make the contents correspond with the movie parts in order to create an epic RPG (In fact there were 3 recording discs and 2 discs).

And so we were able to demonstrate the 「Dramatic Flight Shootingã€concept. You haven’t heard of a Flight Shooting Game like this before, right? We really wanted to show more people how interesting a Flight Shooting Game could be.

We hoped to attract more people than ever by improving basic elements of the game and fusing the with the effort made this time to include a more in-depth storyline.

That being said, that is the element kept as what defined the series. Although the story was on-rails to one or more paths, the player's decisions reflected in which path of the story the player would take. This was prominent in Ace Combat 3: Electrosphere, but in a similar fashion to Command, it had multiple endings (only better writers), and thus may be deemed non-canon in the future.

The acclaimed games of the series are the fifth title, "The Unsung War", and Ace Combat Zero, prequel to AC5.

Both of the games featured a 'on-rails' storyline with a single ending, yet still the decisions of the player changed which missions they would end up into before the finale, and the two titles also featured plot twists, which added to the bit of needed "dramatic" part of the concept. ('Course I'm not revealing anything for people who may be interested in AC and didn't play it yet, spoilers.)

Now one has to wonder; how such elements could be applied into the SF series? I'd appreciate some feedback on the matter. Seems like a interesting enough concept that Nintendo could attempt to implement.

[Drasiana]

Both of the games featured a 'on-rails' storyline with a single ending, yet still the decisions of the player changed which missions they would end up into before the finale, and the two titles also featured plot twists, which added to the bit of needed "dramatic" part of the concept

Star Fox has incorporated this though. Perhaps not to the extent that the AC series has, but they were headed in the right direction in 64 and I'm baffled why they didn't continue the idea because it was a contributing factor to the game's massive replay value.

I finally hooked up my N64 after all these years and replayed the game and yeah, there are multiple ways to play every level that changes the outcome. Naturally most of you have played the game so know what I'm talking about, but there's a "good" and a "bad/neutral" ending to every single stage, the latter of which ranges from "didn't find the secret pathway" to "failed to save Cornerian bases/got the Great Fox nearly destroyed/lost Slippy". Then there are smaller variations within the levels, like alternate pathways in Sector Y or Easy!Venom that don't necessarily effect the story, but change up the gameplay to make every playthrough unique.

So yes, Star Fox has already tapped into that idea. It would just be nice if they kept it up, because it was a major contributor to why the game was so memorable and is still uniquely enjoyable all these years later.

[Ori]

Yes, SF64 was especially enjoyable for that reason. To a certain point, I dare to say SF64 could rival even the latter AC games, and since I'm a hopeless AC addict, that's saying something. What it lacked though, is, like you said, doing it in a greater extent.

The story wasn't so well-developed. Sure, was enough to tell the events of the end of the "Andross War", but it wasn't exactly a blockbuster-worthy one. Same goes for Assault on that matter since it was too short and stocky.

(Now here's something funny about the Assault that never happened: Nintendo officially could have worked with Project ACES (the development team of the latter AC games) if they wanted. More funny than anything, AC5 and 4, acclaimed for dramatic backstories, already existed in 2005, when Assault was released. IMHO, the random Namco dev. team N picked could have been successfully replaced by Pj. ACES, but for some reason, they weren't. Derp.)

This is content extracted from official AC sites of some features from the games with my opinion on them:

Features:

Epic Story: [...] Ace Combat Zero: The Belkan War is set 15 years prior to the events of Ace Combat 5: The Unsung War (Squadron Leader [EU]). It explains events alluded in the previous game through a gripping plot and intense aerial action.[...]

This is the key element I'm talking about. You can't just punch anything into a game and call it good. At the same time that it has to be surprising, it needs to be something the players will get into. ACZ and AC5 are memorable for their stories. Even though it does have a bit drama, it isn't a shitty kind of drama: It is just enough for the player feel that they accomplished something at the end of the game. That would be a good idea to implement in a possible next SF game.

Emotional Feedback System: Hear the response of friends and foes as you fly into the battle - Your conduct in previous missions will affect how they react to you. Skillful flying will be praised; Greed and ruthlessness will be met with fear or disdain.

What if Fox instead of saying in Assault "Pigma! Stop! Dang!" said "You... after all you've done. Enough... You will pay for this." or something like, or better? (LOL, I suck at writing... Still better than Command!) Catchy responses, memorable individuals -both allied and enemy- and a dynamic story, assisted by the personality of the very player on what they will decide to do, are some of the ups of ACZ and 5.

Individual players' actions during missions determine their 'Ace Style', which affects how friends and enemies react over the radio, and can even influence how missions unfold.[...]

Now, into this 'Ace Style' thing: in ACZ especially you have targets that I define as 'secondaries' (not targets, but armed and hostile), 'targets' (designated targets of the mission) and 'non-targets' (retreating enemies, civilian buildings, etc). Destroying each kind of them influences in what 'Ace Style' you will be. For instance, one who destroys non-targets along with targets and secondaries may be classified as 'Ace Style Mercenary', while one who destroys only designated targets for the mission is classified as 'Ace Style Knight'. 'Ace Style Soldier' is somewhere in between the two.

These 'styles' not only tell how the player is behaving in battlefield, but also define which mission they will go into, what enemy 'ace squadrons' they will face, what awards they will achieve, etc.

Now, this element isn't mentioned in the official site, but the soundtrack in the AC series is famous for defining moods for the missions and having a epic feel. Assault had a good revamp on the soundtrack of the previous SF games, but was mostly orchestrated. This is a extremely good piece of art, I know, but StarFox wasn't meant to be a 'mercenary' team? So, yeah, I didn't happen to hear anything 'mercenary'-esque, but instead I heard something more along 'defenders of peace'-esque. ACZ had a soundtrack that consisted of various mixed genres: bits of rock, ambient music, spanish music, etc in the whole. And IMO, a memorable theme track.(I highly recommend listening to the whole tracks, since some take 15-30 sec to turn up.) IMHO a good soundtrack with various genres can satisfy a good majority of players.

And I guess that it may be just me, but in the games the transmissions have that somewhat 'radio' sounding quality. Not exactly a strict detail, but I think it adds to the military 'charm' of aerial dogfight games. NOT asking to turn SF's transmissions into a garbled speech (*Coughmmand*) or just radio noise.

Wouldn't these in the spoiler make SF the ultimate Nintendo game?

That's my opinion, but yeah, it wasn't too wise of the SF dev. team to abandon the gripping plots and dynamic stories. That's why after all, I still prefer 64 over Assault.

[Drasiana]

Haha, I dunno if saying SF64 wasn't blockbuster-worthy is entirely fair, it sure had a lot more plot than a bunch of "blockbusters" I've seen (and despite its limitation I believe it was one of the first N64 games to really push a cinematic look). It was a simplistic plot, but it was a very good start and used a working formula that could have been improved upon in future games...but we all know how that went.

And the Assault thing, Assault was originally meant to have an arcade-release counterpart that kind of vanished into the aether. I assume that Assault would've been much more extensive if that hadn't fallen through; there were some indications in the game's code of levels and characters we never got to see or play as.

[Icy]

Star Fox 64 had a good story. The writing was cheesy and the story wasn't all deep and complex, but it didn't need to be.

[Drasiana]

Yes, exactly.

It also somehow managed to be the only game where Fox has an implied and completed character arc (other than Command, but...Command), a fact that was missed by following games continuing to beat a dead horse named James over our heads. But yeah; it didn't need depth for what it was. It established the characters well and gave us just enough hints about their backstories and relationships to interest us in seeing more, which is the right way to do it, instead of confusing us with plotholes or ongoing ambiguity over things that shouldn't be ambiguous. I'll take a simplistic plot that works over an overcomplicated plot that doesn't.