StarFox: Future of the Storyline

[AlGore'sleftshoe]

No don't worry, Xid, I got this. Ahem.

 

Perhaps 7 out of 10 Star Fox developers or more said that in a reboot the aforementioned characters would return.

 

There's our proof right there.

 

 

This is the one part of your argument that I have to agree with. It would be nice to know more about why Corneria is at war with Venom instead of just "yeah this guy is "evil" and wants vengeance for being punished due to his dangerous experiments". I would also like more insight into how Corneria goes about making it's military decisions, which would go a long way in giving the players' insight into what kind of government system is in power. But of course, it's just a game about space animals blowing stuff up, so why should I expect this kind of concrete material?

 

 

remember that time like ten posts ago where I tried to discuss it with you that ended in you going off on a weird tangent about fara apropos of nothing

 

 

literally no one has suggested that Andross returning should be the plot

 

 

because you won't shut up about it? every single time someone brings up a criticism you start freaking out about how "people" on "other websites" disagree. you have used that in lieu of any actual argument in basically every post you have made

 

 

what we're saying: a reboot would be beneficial in that we'd have a smoother, more consistent basis for the plot and lore, as well as a chance to give characters like Krystal a more dignified and sensible entrance so they could mesh better into the world and really shine

 

what you're hearing: DURRRR HURRR MURDER KRYSTAL AND SHOVE ALL OF STAR FOX 64 UP MY ASS

 

anyway adventures>command wouldn't cease to exist, you can still play them, and they could easily re-incorporate elements from them into a reboot. it would just be resetting certain things that have mega-ruined the plot as it's progressed, and as I said earlier, these games really didn't add anything significantly positive to the lore or characters. krystal's probably the only one who a reboot would be most notable on and she's the one who needs it the most

 

 

While the whole Oikonny/Bowman family stuff is one of my favourite Star Fox character things I have to lmao @ this because you're admonishing people for saying Andross should return while proclaiming the glorious originality that is the ending where Dash just becomes Andross 2: Venom Boogaloo

 

the other sequels that Command "set up" were Star Falco, Kursed, Slippy's Endless Dickspawn, Marcus McCloud's Party Hour, and G-Zero Racing. none of these ideas were impressively anything other than terrible

Hey Dras, I don't mean to be mr debbie downer again as always, but think of it this way, it just doesn't add up to bring back other characters that weren't in SF64 in a conclusion to that game. That's just my theory, obviously a theory lacks proof but...think about it really long.

do you want to make an actual bet? you can decide any stakes you like, I will submit to your demands if I am proven wrong.

I do not like it one bit, but I think it is almost certain that this is more or less exactly how StarFox WiiU will play out;

StarFox WiiU will be a plot reboot and continue from 64

Krystal nor Panther *or any of the stupidly god awful dumb characters from Command* WILL NOT be seen ever again, gone the same way as Miyu and Fey, and presumably Bill Grey even though he's in SF64, when was the last time you saw him anyway? hell I don't even think he's a sticker in brawl

AND the story for the new StarFox game will most likely be "Oh no bad guys, go get'em StarFox" and that's it.

This is DEFINITELY not my opinion, it is my worst fear, however I do claim this to be the most likely outcome,

If I am wrong in two or more of these, you win the bet, Dras, whatta ya say?

StarFox fan.... >"one agreement I agree on" -_-"....ok whatever. Anyways, that's what I'm trying to say, I'd like also the characters to perhaps morally disagree with Corneria, adding further conflict, I bet Venom isn't exactly the nicest place in the Lylat regions, and each conflict in the StarFox series so far was more or less caused by Andross, but it was still antagonized by Corneria's responses, each war leads from one thing to another and there has never been any anti-violence effort, in Dinosaur Planet the Cerenian people are supposed to be....serene, peaceful, what happened to Krystal's peaceful nature? she is an elite mercinary after all. perhaps Peppy might not agree with everything other Cornerian military leaders believe, Venom has civilians too, and I'd like it if the StarFox team were suddenly hesitant about attacking them, they do have emotions like in the ending of Assault, and the ending of 64; Peppy sounded like he was gonna cry when Fox got out of the exploding bunker tunnel, and Krystal reflected on "casualties and noble sacrifices" I guess that shines on her "peaceful" nature.

I can compare Corneria to the United States; ANOTHER relation to the events of World War II, at the end of the war with Germany, Berlin was sieged, we just flew in with planes and literally bombed the living hell out of the capitol city of Germany, and LOTS of civilians died, houses and buildings historic and new were completely destroyed, Berlin was a rubbled wasteland when Germany surrendered, and many German soldiers were in tears to find their homes demolished, or their families killed, in fact the U.S planned to drop the atomic bomb in Germany, but instead dropped it in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, killing almost 200,000 people, yeah I know Japan and Germany are responsible for a lot of death, but so are we, the U.S even outside WWII had done a lot of terrible things too. Corneria is comparable to captain america, perfect heroes are really bland, I like the idea of both sides not being innocent, but more realistic.

Trust me, though, not all furry games and crap are cartoony, I've read some gritty violent comics in my day, oh and I'm writing an original story myself that has anthro characters, but not innocent *and it isn't smut, neither, more like bloody violent just the way I like it*

 

No don't worry, Xid, I got this. Ahem.

 

Perhaps 7 out of 10 Star Fox developers or more said that in a reboot the aforementioned characters would return.

 

There's our proof right there. Xort, you didn't disprove me any more than I have you, and I still said that it is likely to be a reboot, however I don't believe the characters will return.

 

[Drasiana]

The idea of a new leader taking charge can really make things interesting, Dash reminds me of Herann Goering and Adolf Hitler; yes I guess the Nazi thing is overrused but so is everything in the StarFox Universe. it can be interesting to see how he'd learn from Andross and start a whole new Lylat War with Corneria. That way the heroes will once again have to go to war with Venom, they could make that like a trilogy, plus, it once again makes team StarWolf enemies, as they'd likely join Dash.

 

But why? Dash suddenly becoming Andross 2 didn't even make sense in Command, let alone the plot of a following game. Why would Star Wolf just up and decide to join Dash? Did they even meet him in Command? Dash's entire thing in Command was that he was an innocent, almost stereotypically Good Guy who wanted to fix Venom, and then in two endings he randomly became evil with no warning or precedence. There isn't any motivation here at all... not that I don't think Dash taking up the mantle wouldn't be interesting, because again, I love me the Oikonny/Bowman business, BUT the way you're presenting it is extremely shallow to the point that it's interchangeable with any other "a new generic evil invades Lylat, go stop it" plot.

 

Actually the best part here is that to get the characterization you want out of Star Wolf, a reboot is literally required since in canon they're pretty much good guys now

 

when did I say I liked every ending in Command?

 

You said it had potential for lots of good sequels and I listed the potential sequels it could give us.

 

sure, Nintendo could bring her in as "a hired mercinery" yeah that's just brilliant isn't it? that's nothing new, Miyu and Fey already did that, getting rid of "the last of her people" idea would be like if George Lucas went back and changed Leia and made it so she wasn't Luke Skywalker's sister, yeah that pretty much drains from a lot of build up in episodes Empire Strikes back and Return of the Jedi

 

oh cool once again you're arguing against a suggestion that literally nobody is making. I linked you to my topic on how I'd reintroduce Krystal while preserving her backstory and even her powers to an extent, just in a context that allowed them to make sense and develop the world lore, which current canon has been almost intentionally avoiding. Somehow you got "turn Krystal into a random mercenary, it is the only solution" out of that. I could give you ten other ways to reintroduce her that would preserve her backstory, too.

 

The idea of the team having fought through the Aparoids, and Corneria put in a state of vulnerability makes it more realistic for Dash to quickly stir up a new empire and sufficiently go to war with them, otherwise it'd just be another Rebellion, oh yeah forgot about that. Oikonny's rebellion further implies unrest years after a war.

 

AGAIN, WHY DOES DASH WANT TO GO TO WAR. You are injecting unnatural drama for the sake of it being there. "There is vague political unrest... for some reason..." isn't a good plot motivator. Especially since Andrew's rebellion was due in part to him blindly fanboying over Andross and trying to boost his own ego. Though I'd argue there wasn't really a reason that Dash's story couldn't have just gone to Andrew, especially since Dash's introduction made no sense (when did Andross have kids, let alone grandkids? how is he working in the Cornerian Army without anyone batting an eye?), there is enough difference in their motivations as they're presented that using Andrew's actions as a reason for Dash to follow suit doesn't really make that much sense. Let alone the fact that they never even interacted with each other, despite being related...

 

Like, Dash's existence COULD be really interesting. I can't reiterate enough how much I love the Venomians but at the same time pretty much like 95% of that is based on my own headcanon and overzealous character theorizing, the way it's been handled within the actual series has been extremely superficial.

 

all of the political stuff collectively gives good spacing, that way "oh no, a new war spontaniously happened for some reason"

 

I have no idea what the first half of this sentence is supposed to mean and the latter half is demonstrably untrue until you find an actual reason as to why this war is happening that isn't some vague mumbling into your shirt about how Dash learned stuff from Andross I guess

 

also, I can pretty much say for certain that if there was a reboot, they would only use the characters from 643D, and maybe hash in a few extra characters that are about as interesting as Amanda or whatever from Command...yep. can you prove me wrong? can you prove that you know for sure that if there was a reboot that mentioned characters will for sure return? *which is unfortunately quite likely*

 

...can you prove that Miyamoto cackled while waving about Krystal's head on a pike, bathing himself in fanboy tears as his legion of the damned confirmed that all future Star Fox games would just be 64, again, forever?

 

this is so weird to me, that you're like "in the next Star Fox, Dash should literally be Hitler" but in the next breath you're proclaiming how completely absurd it is that a reboot would have non-64 characters in it

 

Lastly once again; Miyamoto said that he wasn't as interested in making deep stories as he is making unique and innovational gameplay concepts, so ONCE AGAIN regardless of who's in, and regardless of what the story will be, it'll probably be something stupidly simple, more bad guys fly in to do this and that. I can almost garuntee that the storyline will be about as well thought out and written as Adventures was.

 

simplicity and quality are not mutually exclusive simplicity and quality are not mutually exclusive simplicity and quality are not mutually exclusive simplicity and quality are not mutually exclusive simplicity and quality are not mutually exclusive simplicity and quality are not mutually exclusive simplicity and quality are not mutually exclusive simplicity and quality are not mutually exclusive 

 

e: oh for fuck's sake how did you manage to get even more nonsense in before I had a chance to respond to the first batch

 

here we go

 

 

Hey Dras, I don't mean to be mr debbie downer again as always, but think of it this way, it just doesn't add up to bring back other characters that weren't in SF64 in a conclusion to that game. That's just my theory, obviously a theory lacks proof but...think about it really long.

 

"my theory has no proof but if you think about it long enough you'll know I'm right"? is that what you're saying? no

 

anyway since, say, Lucy is supposed to be Peppy's daughter, and Dash is Andross's grandson, how does it not make sense to introduce them back into the continuity? they're directly tied to the core cast and if anything them being introduced in Command makes even less sense than them being incorporated into a reboot

 

 

Krystal nor Panther *or any of the stupidly god awful dumb characters from Command* WILL NOT be seen ever again, gone the same way as Miyu and Fey, and presumably Bill Grey even though he's in SF64, when was the last time you saw him anyway? hell I don't even think he's a sticker in brawl

 

Bill was literally in Command...

 

 

If I am wrong in two or more of these, you win the bet, Dras, whatta ya say?

 

I am not waging a bet with you for the sake of enabling your violent need to Be Right About Video Games, sorry

 

Anyway that giant text wall about World War II and headcanons about Krystal (since none of that was canonically justified) are nice, and it's fine that you want to see more moral ambuguity re: Corneria (I kind of do too, honestly), you still have yet to showcase how this could possibly work in the current continuity? Like you want the next game to be dark hitler genocide land but that would literally be following a game where the goal was fighting evil fish and Wolf tells a missile that it sucks

 

like a reboot would be the only way for your ideas to even make sense in context to the way the rest of the series was presented

[Xidphel]

 

simplicity and quality are not mutually exclusive simplicity and quality are not mutually exclusive simplicity and quality are not mutually exclusive simplicity and quality are not mutually exclusive simplicity and quality are not mutually exclusive simplicity and quality are not mutually exclusive simplicity and quality are not mutually exclusive simplicity and quality are not mutually exclusive 

 

 

Did he just...

Did you just...

Wow. Congrats, Left.

You just broke Dras.

[AlGore'sleftshoe]

 

But why? Dash suddenly becoming Andross 2 didn't even make sense in Command, let alone the plot of a following game. Why would Star Wolf just up and decide to join Dash? Did they even meet him in Command? Dash's entire thing in Command was that he was an innocent, almost stereotypically Good Guy who wanted to fix Venom, and then in two endings he randomly became evil with no warning or precedence. There isn't any motivation here at all... not that I don't think Dash taking up the mantle wouldn't be interesting, because again, I love me the Oikonny/Bowman business, BUT the way you're presenting it is extremely shallow to the point that it's interchangeable with any other "a new generic evil invades Lylat, go stop it" plot.

Lel this is a big bite, your whole reply. anyways, you actually played that piece of shit? you actually played through Command? I always thought that he tricked team StarFox, Fox clearly doesn't ask enough questions, too naive. he's always "Well ok then bro, let's do it" I'd think Dash pulled a Palpatine there I mean if you look it him he was pretty two-faced too. Andrew Oikonny was fudging annoying, but I guess he's basically the Slippy of their team. "stick to dah pond, froggy." "Uncle andross, AAGGHHHH" doesn't it seem like he'd be playing someone if he's super stereotypically nice? he might as well give Fox a massage and hot tea. Also, Wolf fights for honor, and only as a warrior. he doesn't care about politics or who rules the Universe, he just wants to fight. at least he seemed that way in Assault herion, in 64 he was just silly, he was literally monocle-wearing-badguy. I loved his lines though, Wolf, Krystal and Peppy are my alltime favorites if you hadn't noticed, and I do like Miyu but...we've seen next to nothing of her.

 

Actually the best part here is that to get the characterization you want out of Star Wolf, a reboot is literally required since in canon they're pretty much good guys now

It is cool in Assault for them to have a temporary truce, what's the point of fighting when Aparoids could literally destroy Lylat civilization. they're like the Borge from StarTrek, the Klingons agreed to help fight when that fiasco happened. it annoyed me when they were "rivals but allies" in Command, the Anglar empire was just....dumb. Dash, even if he's just space nipolean hitler is a thousand times better than that. *Like I said, Dash should be two-faced, perhaps make him a little crazy too, then again he's already too much like Andross, I feel he isn't so much generic as is that we haven't gotten to know him much yet.

 

You said it had potential for lots of good sequels and I listed the potential sequels it could give us.

 

 

oh cool once again you're arguing against a suggestion that literally nobody is making. I linked you to my topic on how I'd reintroduce Krystal while preserving her backstory and even her powers to an extent, just in a context that allowed them to make sense and develop the world lore, which current canon has been almost intentionally avoiding. Somehow you got "turn Krystal into a random mercenary, it is the only solution" out of that. I could give you ten other ways to reintroduce her that would preserve her backstory, too.

 

 

AGAIN, WHY DOES DASH WANT TO GO TO WAR. You are injecting unnatural drama for the sake of it being there. "There is vague political unrest... for some reason..." isn't a good plot motivator. Especially since Andrew's rebellion was due in part to him blindly fanboying over Andross and trying to boost his own ego. Though I'd argue there wasn't really a reason that Dash's story couldn't have just gone to Andrew, especially since Dash's introduction made no sense (when did Andross have kids, let alone grandkids? how is he working in the Cornerian Army without anyone batting an eye?), there is enough difference in their motivations as they're presented that using Andrew's actions as a reason for Dash to follow suit doesn't really make that much sense. Let alone the fact that they never even interacted with each other, despite being related...

 

Like, Dash's existence COULD be really interesting. I can't reiterate enough how much I love the Venomians but at the same time pretty much like 95% of that is based on my own headcanon and overzealous character theorizing, the way it's been handled within the actual series has been extremely superficial.

 

 

I have no idea what the first half of this sentence is supposed to mean and the latter half is demonstrably untrue until you find an actual reason as to why this war is happening that isn't some vague mumbling into your shirt about how Dash learned stuff from Andross I guess

 

 

...can you prove that Miyamoto cackled while waving about Krystal's head on a pike, bathing himself in fanboy tears as his legion of the damned confirmed that all future Star Fox games would just be 64, again, forever?

 

this is so weird to me, that you're like "in the next Star Fox, Dash should literally be Hitler" but in the next breath you're proclaiming how completely absurd it is that a reboot would have non-64 characters in it

I'm not saying I agree with a goddamn reboot!!! what I'm trying to say is that I think that a reboot with the characters being lost forever is more likely than anything!!! look in the past, what happened to Miyu and Fey? reboot and they're gone forever, but you could say they weren't in a multitude of games and never had any clear popularity, so I guess you got me by the ankle there.

 

 

simplicity and quality are not mutually exclusive simplicity and quality are not mutually exclusive simplicity and quality are not mutually exclusive simplicity and quality are not mutually exclusive simplicity and quality are not mutually exclusive simplicity and quality are not mutually exclusive simplicity and quality are not mutually exclusive simplicity and quality are not mutually exclusive 

I know I flashed through that once without paying attention but....wuh?

 

[Drasiana]

why did you put your reply within the quote box, argh, argggggh

 

 

Lel this is a big bite, your whole reply. anyways, you actually played that piece of shit? you actually played through Command? I always thought that he tricked team StarFox, Fox clearly doesn't ask enough questions, too naive. he's always "Well ok then bro, let's do it" I'd think Dash pulled a Palpatine there I mean if you look it him he was pretty two-faced too. Andrew Oikonny was fudging annoying, but I guess he's basically the Slippy of their team. "stick to dah pond, froggy." "Uncle andross, AAGGHHHH" doesn't it seem like he'd be playing someone if he's super stereotypically nice? he might as well give Fox a massage and hot tea. Also, Wolf fights for honor, and only as a warrior. he doesn't care about politics or who rules the Universe, he just wants to fight. at least he seemed that way in Assault herion, in 64 he was just silly, he was literally monocle-wearing-badguy. I loved his lines though, Wolf, Krystal and Peppy are my alltime favorites if you hadn't noticed, and I do like Miyu but...we've seen next to nothing of her.

 

 

this sure is a lot of fanfiction that isn't justified in the actual games you're so worried about preserving

 

 

It is cool in Assault for them to have a temporary truce, what's the point of fighting when Aparoids could literally destroy Lylat civilization. they're like the Borge from StarTrek, the Klingons agreed to help fight when that fiasco happened. it annoyed me when they were "rivals but allies" in Command, the Anglar empire was just....dumb. Dash, even if he's just space nipolean hitler is a thousand times better than that. *Like I said, Dash should be two-faced, perhaps make him a little crazy too, then again he's already too much like Andross, I feel he isn't so much generic as is that we haven't gotten to know him much yet.

 

The Assault truce wasn't temporary. They are basically good guys in Command. Their entire main plot is that they want their names cleared and to be seen as heroes of Lylat too. Suddenly disregarding that would just be contributing to the current canon's terrible character consistency. Space Napoleon Hitler is not cooler than evil fish, since the evil fish were Space Napoleon Hitler Fish. It turns out if your villains have shitty vague motivations they're equally terrible, no matter what species they are.

 

I'm not saying I agree with a goddamn reboot!!!

 

where in my post did I say you wanted a reboot? where? literally where? nothing i said even remotely indicates you actually want a reboot. nothing. at all. you have the reading comprehension skills of a potato.

 

the point I was making is that, not only are your reasons for NOT wanting a reboot flawed, every direction you want the current canon to go wouldn't make sense without a reboot. you DON'T want a reboot yet you want things to happen that wouldn't work without heavily modifying the current canon

 

aka

 

a reboot

 

what I'm trying to say is that I think that a reboot with the characters being lost forever is more likely than anything!!! look in the past, what happened to Miyu and Fey?

 

 

miyu and fay were not fan favourites who played staple parts in 3 full games, they were new characters in a game that got cancelled that never saw an english translation

 

I know I flashed through that once without paying attention but

 

well, mystery solved i guess

 

e: i don't know why the quote boxes are bleeding i'm sorry for whatever i did to them

Edited February 26, 2015 by OneUnder
I think I unbroke the quote boxes, at least partly. O_o

[Xidphel]

First Dras breaks, now the site's breaking.

[Joseph.]

At the end of the day, we're just stating opinions xD

 

Maybe both of you guys should stop now... I'm getting a feeling this thread is gonna get locked.

[Drasiana]

hey, I'm just trying to play ambassador to planet shoe here so that we may understand his people someday in this vast cosmic unknown

[AlGore'sleftshoe]

hey, I'm just trying to play ambassador to planet shoe here so that we may understand his people someday in this vast cosmic unknown

 

 

First Dras breaks, now the site's breaking.

 

 

At the end of the day, we're just stating opinions xD

 

Maybe both of you guys should stop now... I'm getting a feeling this thread is gonna get locked.

lel

We don't know Dash, and a new game could change everything about him; I want him to be two-faced and scheming, but not just that. in my fanfic, I want him to be all about succeeding where Andross failed, he feels at first he must conquer the Lylat System, thus pleasing his people and gaining infinite resources to continue his quest for celestial transcendence. See; Andross partially succeeded and turned himself into a mutant floating space head, but he wasn't able to travel through space and time, so instead he continues his current course to enact his vengeance on Corneria and the rest of the Lylat System.

as for StarWolf; I guess it'd be hard if their goals suddenly shift, but in Dash's rants against Corneria, he could claim they are against stability and progress, team StarWolf would be convinced he is telling the truth, and blindly follow him, now having a good reason for it.

Dash will claim to be a great leader who wants to make things better, blaming Corneria for Lylat problems, using it as a scape goat to hide his true intentions to gain god-like powers like Andross did. Hitler had selfish intentions hidden beneath his rouse, so did his compatriots like Goering and Himler, in general though they just wanted power. I'd also like to have a number of Lylat leaders on Venom's side who believe Dash is doing the right thing, but blissfully unaware that even they are being used.

[Xortberg]

Xort, you didn't disprove me any more than I have you

 

Yeah, that's the point. And now that you've outright admitted that random statistics mean absolutely nothing, you can bet your ass if I see you start posting any more I will lay into you just as hard as Dras has been, if not harder.

 

I'm watching you like a hawk.

[unoservix]

at this point i would just like to interject that Star Fox: Dickspawn of Slippy would make a fantastic sequel for the franchise and definitely sounds like an enjoyable and rewarding game

 

I will lay into you just as hard as Dras has been, if not harder.

 

fifty shades of xort

 

mr. berg will see you now

[AlGore'sleftshoe]

Yeah, that's the point. And now that you've outright admitted that random statistics mean absolutely nothing, you can bet your ass if I see you start posting any more I will lay into you just as hard as Dras has been, if not harder.

Well, just remember I wasn't lying either, I see SO many people complain about the idea of a reboot, yes I know that is exactly how the next game will play out, and NO the new characters WILL NOT return, it'll be extremely painful, and I don't look forward to it, thankfully it will likely crash and burn, however with that the fate of the StarFox series will once again be sealed, most likely forever after that collossal failure.

 

I'm watching you like a hawk.

Well, thank you for becoming my newest online stalker ready to pounce on me when my back is turned, I will torrent all the more amused than I already am, knowing you will be cringing at my every syllable.