Not every game has to be Star Fox 64

[Xortberg]

Motherfucker use the edit button. Stop posting new responses for every person you reply to. If you were the last person to post, click the edit button instead of posting again.

[Vy'drach]

DZ is not threatening to ban you for having a different opinion, he is threatening to ban you because you are acting like a royal douche canoe. There is a massive difference.

 

Also, yes, for the love of Big Daddy G, use the edit button and do not double and triple post.

[Dr. Orange]

Im not targeting people only on this website either, im saying in general starfox discussion. its  just something that irks me. i feel a lot of people missed that point...

I don’t understand some things about the fandom here in the starfox community. One of the most annoying things to me is how it seems that everyone has this creepy obsession with star fox 64. I love the game, it was a very important part of my childhood and has influenced me greatly. I know it inside and out and I beat it often in single play sessions whenever I get the chance to

 

People are CONSTANTLY comparing the other games in the franchise to star fox 64. I can understand why obviously and to an extent its fine for point of reference and what not, but I mean comparing and saying things like "it’s not like 64, so it’s not good." or "it’s too different from 64." this ticks me off

That isn't how it came off to me. That might be my bad but it looked like a accusation to those who use SF64 as an argument (which kinda is a lot of us here). The same intent of the comic, for those who use SF64 as an arguement and get beaten down for looking back to SF64 as only a inspiration source.

[PieMan24601]

Motherfucker use the edit button. Stop posting new responses for every person you reply to. If you were the last person to post, click the edit button instead of posting again.

 

 

I'm new to this site's forums sorry I dont know how it works around here.

[Xortberg]

Well I mean, you were obviously either familiar enough with forums to know how to quote people or savvy enough to see the "Quote" button and figure it out so you've got no excuse for not figuring out the edit button either.

[DZComposer]

Its very mature to threaten banning someone with an opposing opinion.

I don't ban people for disagreeing with me. Quite the contrary. I hardly ban anyone. I could probably count all the people I've banned over the years on my fingers. Ask anyone here. There's lots of stuff I disagree with that others here say.

They, however, don't call me stupid. You did, so I warned you that insulting an admin is not a wise choice.

[Xidphel]

[Ori]

Whoa wow wow. I spend a few minutes typing out my response and things explode. I suggest everyone take a time to cool down before this thread gets a shiny lock.

 

The point i am trying to make is that this community doesnt seem to crituiqe star fox games for being bad or good games, but rather because they are not like star fox 64. and just because one franchise like ace combat can do something successfully doesnt mean it needs to happen for all game series. if a star fox game comes out that is heavily like star fox 64 it is logical to compare that game to 64, but the games we have now are radically different, so saying that a game is bad because the core gameplay is different  than 64 is a thought that prohibits something new and interesting being introduced.

 

Okay, let's try another approach then. The following is my opinion but it's mainly influenced by others'.

 

64: Control sample - Comparison basis.

Reason: Lacks storyline depth; innovative graphics at the epoch.

 

Adventures: Overall quality - Average

Reason: Continued lack of story depth, overly long roaming, rushed (tight deadlines), project had shifted from another game into SF; Good character graphics.

 

Assault: Overall quality - Average-low

Reason: Continued lack of story depth, plot holes, unvisited content that could add to the story, reduced graphics and sloppy controls; Good soundtrack.

 

Command:  Overall quality - Low

Reason: Plot holes, players could not influence in major events that happened off-screen prior to game, unpolished strange art direction; Interesting use of the DS resources and branching paths.

 

What I'm trying to say here isn't that 64 is a masterpiece of gaming-- Far from that in fact, it has its flaws and had space for a lot of improvement.

The pattern here is that the story wasn't well-developed for the longest time, and when it was, it took a bad turn for something that people cringed at. The core gameplay only affects a minor nitpicking side on people as while I could live with different control schemes and gameplay elements for each game and even core changes, it was a bit annoying, but didn't stop me from enjoying the game in general.

 

Bear in mind that, again, the reason I don't like the SF games after 64 is because their immense amount of potential that wasn't put to use, and how the mistake was repeated until they took a bad decision in a critical point which was Command. And don't get me wrong, I LOVE multiple endings. Deus Ex, Electrosphere, Mass Effect and others are titles that I tip my fedora hat to, because they find some way to concile the endings in a combination or have some event happen that reveals a bigger scheme that will affect things to the events of the next installment of the series. Mass Effect used an "Use Old Save" system, Deus Ex combined endings into the events of the next chronological installments, Electrosphere made a reveal about... Well, spoilers.

 

Here's the problem with SF: Command; Its endings cannot be merged because various different events occur making it difficult to sew the stories back together. And if we are to pick a 'true ending', there WILL be fanbase backlash because some will like the alternate endings which have not been chosen as official and canon.

 

Assault sins at the fact it had a lot to explore but it remained unvisited: Oikonny and pretty much a whole last ditch effort with the remaining troops were only a mention for the intro stage. Aparoids? If they were so big of a threat and caused so much damage, how the information didn't become public knowledge? Why Wolf and the rest of his team were (and destroyed afterwards) at Meteo after Pigma when SF arrived? Why there wasn't a mention of Bill or other SF64 characters? And there's more. It's those missing pieces in the big picture that make things confusing, and that's a big problem when telling a story.

 

Adventures... Meh. I don't have a lot to complain about it, aside from how silly it is. That's it. The gameplay format change is something I do accept and I can tolerate, with or without developed plots. As for story depth, it had just as much as 64: It explained a few things on the run, but left some things unexplained, such as what the hell are the Krazoa after all. I wouldn't complain even if they made the game a point-and-click story with quick-time events. And it's not a stretch to say that the biggest thing that's a problem with Adventures is that the game story had to be converted from something not SF into a Starfox game, which made the redevelopment time short due to the tight deadlines.

 

So you see, the graph ramps down after Adventures not because of the gameplay core elements, not because of different controls, but because so much happens on the background and we see none of that, and we're given nothing to get a clear idea of what, how, and why things happen in the game. Those three basic storytelling elements that should always have a proper answer unless noted otherwise for plot purposes remain unanswered for the longest time in the Starfox series. This is what people cringe at. Nintendo doesn't fix its past mistakes and repeats them for the sake of experimenting the functions of the system or control they're trying to create.

 

Now if I can't get it across with this, then I don't know what will.

[Xidphel]

 

I'm new to this site's forums sorry I dont know how it works around here.

 

Member Since 15 Jul 2012 

 

 

As for your feeds

PieMan24601

I WAN THE STATUE FOR DINOSAUR PLANET THAT WAS AT E3 2000 ASDUASUIDHAS

  Jul 15 2012 06:17 PM

 

PieMan24601

Researching facts about dinosaur planet and the original SFAD is really interesting! =3

  Aug 12 2012 09:21 PM

Yup. Totally new.

[PieMan24601]

Know what? fuck it. I don't have time for this bullshit and its not worth getting upset over.

 

I'll keep using this site as a news feed for starfox, but fuck this man i don't feel like being bitched at by everyone for having a different opinion and getting upset when people act like dicks to me because of it.

 

This is why i don't talk about videogames on the internet because god forbid someone say something different.

 

 

As for your feeds

Quote

PieMan24601

I WAN THE STATUE FOR DINOSAUR PLANET THAT WAS AT E3 2000 ASDUASUIDHAS

  Jul 15 2012 06:17 PM

Quote

 

PieMan24601

Researching facts about dinosaur planet and the original SFAD is really interesting! =3

  Aug 12 2012 09:21 PM

Yup. Totally new.

 

Ive been a member on here for years, but i don't post on the forums like at all, so i have no idea how it works here

[Xortberg]

>gets proven wrong on his claim that he's new

>says he's done wasting time and runs away

 

Lol

 

[Ori]

Well, I tried.

 

[Xidphel]

Know what? fuck it. I don't have time for this bullshit and its not worth getting upset over.

 

I'll keep using this site as a news feed for starfox, but fuck this man i don't feel like being bitched at by everyone for having a different opinion and getting upset when people act like dicks to me because of it.

 

This is why i don't talk about videogames on the internet because god forbid someone say something different.

 

[Dr. Orange]

Dude. We're not getting at you for your opinion. At best, all this hype and fire came from the fact that you kinda had a spiteful attitude to the fanbase. The opening was negative and led to a overall negative series of posts. 

 

That's all. 

 

Breathe a bit. We all will too, and maybe we can throw comments as handshakes rather than punches.

[InfinitySquared]

*clicks on thread*

*reads*

[Xidphel]

*clicks on thread*

*reads*

[Joseph.]

please do not tell me what you do not know about me.

 

At first I liked your post but then I had to dislike it since you're being a complete to jerk to everyone you reply to.....

 

So clam down man, its just other peoples opinions. 

[Robert Monroe]

Wow you guys, started the party without me eh?

But seriously homeskillet, noone wants Starfox to just copypaste SF64 forever. SF64 was good, but it is outdated due to being an ealry N64 90s game.

WHAT PEOPLE DO WANT, THOUGH, WHICH THE SERIES HAS FAILED TO DO, is followup on SF64's successes while expanding its scope and ability. Instead we got 1: A shallow linear babby's first Zelda Clone (Adventures), 2: an ugly clumsy controlling shallow action game that has LESS content in it than its 8 year old predecessor (Assault), and 3: an uglier clumsier controlling shallow turn based strategy game that decided the touch screen should handle EVERY CONTROL MECHANIC IN THE GAME with 9 differing plotlines full of so much stupid it makes fanfiction look Shaksperean (Command).

Change is not good on the principle of just being different. Change is good when it is implemented and designed well and not shoe-horned into something it doesn't feel thematically appropriate.

On the flipside, here's my delicious little copypaste of everything great about SF64 in a broad sense that SHOULD be expanded on in future games:

The ~hip~ thing to say about Starfox is that it was better when it was in the Arwing. This is not false; Starfox's ventures into other things not Arwing pew-pew related were mediocre at best (Adventures) to totally asinine at worst (Assault).

However, like Dras and a few other of you nuggets have posted whom I don't know, the reason those games blew ass was because of poor design, not specifically taking Fox out of the cockpit, and that is correct. HOWEVER...

Starfox 64 -should- be the blueprint for the series success. And what is that blueprint? It isn't KEEP FOX IN THE ARWING 5EVER - its the game's design as a whole. CONSIDER THE FOLLOWING:

-Starfox 64 was diverse. The game had 15 different levels, and 10 of those levels had either: 1) Branching pathways in the level itself that allowed you to face different enemy arrangements 2) Divergent endings that took you to entirely different levels or 3) Both. There was a -lot- of cross continuity with the levels as well with Bill/Katt making cameos, and every level had a unique art direction (yes, even all the space ones).

-Starfox 64 was tightly designed. Everything had a place, a purpose, a function. There was no bloat or excess in the form of tacked on piss poor story or forced character drama (CoughCommandCough), no "side" missions that disrupt the pace of the game and distract rather than enhance (CoughSFlagsCoughCheatTokensCough). There were medals, yes, and you got medals by simply playing the game as normal; specifically doing so -well-. It rewarded replay, not guide farming. The story and dialogue was barebones, but what we got was full of character. Starwolf has collectively less than 50 lines of dialogue but they're a hella lot more memorable and loved because what we DID get was well placed and utilized.

-Starfox 64 was inviting. With 15 levels, medals, expert mode, and all the level diversity, Starfox 64 ENCOURAGED you to play the game more. Only 7 levels could be completed during any given run (and two always had to be Corneria and Venom though there was variety even there), and most levels could intersect to two other levels. The game wasn't a slog, though, you're looking at an hour on average assuming you don't get killed a lot. Trying to replay the game to discover new content or improve your old scores wasn't a chore, it didn't drag and it didn't make you question the control you have over your life. You're in, you're out, you're done, you're happy, you do it again tomorrow gladly.

-Starfox 64 was well paced. Like I just said, the game takes little over an hour once you know what you're doing. The controls are tight, responsive, and levels go by at a brisk pace, but not rushed. You never wonder WHEN DOES THIS CRAP END (except maybe Katina), and even the hiccups the game does have aren't too upsetting because everything is so -tightly- put together. Arwings are fast and smooth, lasers hit with a good omph, dogfights are exciting, and so on. There's a sense of speed and thrill that's just right.

And lastly...

-Starfox 64 was a goddamn space shooter game. Here's the deal: Starfox IS supposed to be a SPACE SHOOTER. That's its THING. Now yes, you can have diversity and try new things (SF64 had a tank and a submarine!), but what is important is that the new doesn't overshadow the -core of the game-. Assault's foot missions, poorly programmed controls aside, were loathed because they overshadowed the Arwing missions. Out of Assault's (meager) 10 levels, only four were Arwing levels: Fortuna, Meteo, Orbital Gate, and Aparoid Core. Now yes, Sargasso, Sauria and the Aparoid Surface did all have Arwing -options-, but in all 3 cases the level objectives were on foot and meant to be approached as such; and in the case of Sauria and Sargasso they were -distractions- from the mission that disrupted the flow of the levels.

And that was then; nowadays the "over the shoulder cover based 3PS" is a very generic game design that a lot have imitated, just like the GTA sandbox clones and 2D platformers of yesteryear. Putting Starfox in that bland generic mold is ungraceful. Sure, you -could- make it work, but ultimately the better choice is to focus on making a good design for what Starfox's niche is: spectacular space shooting. Yes, they are mercenaries, but they're mercenary PILOTS dammit. A few foot missions as flavor wouldn't hurt, maybe even use the Greatfox interior as an interactive level hub for the fans, but ultimately the focus SHOULD be on the STAR aspect of Starfox. Concerns of cookie-cutter cut and paste games can hardly be validated when we really haven't even broken in the MOLD since 1997.

tl;dr SF64 is a blueprint because of a lot of smart game design choices that put together an excellent shmup experience not because it IS shmup game.

[Arminius H O Fiddywinks]

IMO, I just want to see another Star Fox game. It's been... 8!!! years since the last bona fide one.

 

Oh well, at least this isn't the F-Zero community.

 

MEGA EDIT:

 

How dare you freaking call people stupid for having an opinion that you don't like? That's the sound a bigot makes when they're at a podium. You like calling people stupid? Is it a freaking hobby of yours? Is it a pastime? WOULD YOU FREAKING LIKE IT IF I CALLED YOU STUPID, YOU DAMN MORON!?

 

At first, I agreed with what you said. But then you started whining and said "Uhh, you people don't understand. Uhh, Star Fox doesn't need to be like the best game in the series. Uhh, now you ban people because they have a different opinion? UHH!" Because of your immaturity and the arguments of the other guys on this thread, I changed my mind, not about the series, but about your argument. Yes, I agree with the "This is what I want to see in a Star Fox game" part on your FIRST post, but you decided to dig a deep hole and jump right in by being a d-bag. Here's a thought: YOU freaking suck it up and accept the opinions of others instead of arguing and counter-arguing against them!

 

And read before you post.

 

And freaking grow up!!!

 

And then FIND A DAMN BRAIN!

[Drasiana]

What the absolute fuck is with the recent influx of people stomping in here being like,

 

Dude: Hi, community I have never interacted with before! I hate Star Fox fans because you're all idiot babies who only want to suck on 64 forever instead of bowing to the glory that is Assault! Gaze upon this objectively good opinion and rejoice.

 

Us: but nobody is saying that and you're being sort of rude

 

Dude: WOW I CAN'T BELIEVE i'M BEING OPPRESSED LIKE THIS JUST FOR SHARING MY OPINION, GOOD RIDDANCE YOU NAZIS

 

It's a really weird trend and should probably, like, stop. Lurk more or something, jesus.

[Arminius H O Fiddywinks]

What the absolute fuck is with the recent influx of people stomping in here being like,

 

Dude: Hi, community I have never interacted before! I hate Star Fox fans because you're all idiot babies who only want to suck on 64 forever instead of bowing to the glory that is Assault! Gaze upon this objectively good opinion and rejoice.

 

Us: but nobody is saying that and you're being sort of rude

 

Dude: WOW I CAN'T BELIEVE i'M BEING OPPRESSED LIKE THIS JUST FOR SHARING MY OPINION, GOOD RIDDANCE YOU NAZIS

 

It's a really weird trend and should probably, like, stop. Lurk more or something, jesus.

This made me chuckle.

[NickFox]

 what star fox should be is something like a modern 64. ;lots of flying missions, different branches you path could take (including the ability to return to planets), interacting with your teammates(of which there should be 4-5, and no that does not mean you have to spend most of the time saving their butts), and being rewarded for shooting down a lot of enemies, keeping your friends airborne, and clearing the sector. perhaps have a hub world aboard the  Great Fox in-between sectors, where your teammates have their quarters spread around the ship, and you can go check up on them, and find out things about them.Finding out what Falco keeps hidden under his bunk, for instance. If we must have magic because Krystal is on the team, Develop it. have her ship shoot magic instead of laser fire. have her abilities be able to shield herself from enemy fire for a time.things of that nature.

[CrypticQuery]

I'll keep using this site as a news feed for starfox, but fuck this man i don't feel like being bitched at by everyone for having a different opinion and getting upset when people act like dicks to me because of it.

 

This is why i don't talk about videogames on the internet because god forbid someone say something different.

 

Posting an opinion is great.  Discussing different opinions is also great.  Acting like your opinion is the greatest thing since sliced bread and then blatantly shit-talking the people that post contrary opinions, including the administrator that keeps this site running, is not great.  Playing the victim after the aforementioned offenses will not net you any sympathy.

 

TL;DR

 

----

 

An interesting, and even agreeable to an extent, point was brought up in the OP.  There were some well-composed posts made in reply that explained individual stances and additionally clarified reasons for disagreement.  You did acknowledge those opinions and also added your personal feedback to them.  That's outstanding and represents how things progress under normal circumstances.  If you avoid attempting to push forth your opinion as fact, and avoid insulting others' intelligence for having a contrary opinion, you'll be fine here.

[unoservix]

wow, i've been missing out on all the good dipshits lately

 

oh, unless this is the same dipshit making alt accounts because of a hurting butt or something, hmm

[Pharaoh Shadon]

So much drama I just HAD go go back to the original page and re-read everything :D

*Reads everything*

 

O.O Well then... Way to prove his point about attitude. If you're gonna go after him about how he sees fans, then be above what he said, not act EXACTLY what he was talking about.

 

he is threatening to ban you because you are acting like a royal douche canoe. There is a massive difference.

Oh he's got quite a bit of people to ban if something as simple of what he did is considered ban worthy.

 

 

"You post bullshit, we insult you."

Noooooooooooo a MODERATORS job is to prevent stuff like that. If a moderator partakes in that instead of stopping it, then one must question why they are a moderator in the first place.

 

 

With that being said, DZ, I think you have a few warnings to give, or at least order to enforce. Members and (staff?) alike.

 

 

(BTW, he didn't call DZ stupid, he said the statement he made was stupid. Weather the statement was stupid or not is debatable, but even if he did call DZ stupid directly, that is NOTHING compared to what some of the rest get to say, and get away with.