Overthinking Star Fox

[Ocelotl]

Hey there, new to this forum, let me know if this has already been a topic.

Since we're headed to another retelling of the Lylat Wars story from SF1 and 64/3D I was interested in doing some overthinking on that story.  What the context is and what the implications for the story are. Are monkeys hated through the galaxy? Did no one really know what Andross was doing on Corneria? Is Andross tapping into some well deserved anger towards Cornerian society? What about those lizards? How did he get them to fight people they've never really knew about? How good is Corneria anyways? Star Fox is a mercenary group, not freedom fighters or military personnel. I wonder if Peppy gets a stipend.

While the game is rather cartoony, you do play as anthropomorphic animals, how do you feel about gunning down other people, anthropomorphic monkeys, who yell out in agony as you gun them down? Should Star Fox even attempt these kinds of stories? I wonder if we can ever truly take it that seriously as a story since they are silly animals. Is this why it's so hard to market Star Fox? While Nintendo hasn't shied away from having violent games on their consoles in recent years, I'm not sure if they're especially comfortable with their characters being so. After all when they tried being a shooter they switched from Andross, living enemies, to emotionless robots... *who were looking for souls?*

An example comes to mind, in 64 when you kill that "My Emperor I've Failed you" guy, it felt pretty rough to me. This guy dies lamenting his failure to his emperor and duty as his machine explodes in a fiery blaze! Not quite as acceptable as killing an aparoid, eh? Luckily you never see any bodies but still...

Anyways, what do y'all think? I know it's silly but let's indulge, no? *Unless y'all alredy did this... oh well*

*I'm sure Lylat Legacy will get to these things but y'know it'll be a while*

[That Ain't Falco]

Let's not forget the entirety of Assault. And the enemies on Corneria. Actually, the entire Corneria mission. Oh, and how two thousand people just straight up die on Katina during the second mission. And the shield breaking cutscene on the homeworld. Assault is a game that threw out being kid friendly in favor of firmly grasping your feels, squeezing them hard enough to make you deeply uncomfortable, and then tearing them apart and leaving you to pick up the pieces. Why?

Because good ol' Shiggy M is a seriously cruel person. That's why.

By the way, you do see bodies in Assault. In fact, you produce quite a few corpses. Also, spoiler alert, you get to have tons of fun on Sauria walking amongst Aparoid infected, rotting, dinosaur corpses. All this while Krystal worries about the EarthWalkers.

[Ocelotl]

1 minute ago, That Ain't Falco said:

Let's not forget the entirety of Assault. And the enemies on Corneria. Actually, the entire Corneria mission. Oh, and how two thousand people just straight up die on Katina during the second mission. And the shield breaking cutscene on the homeworld. Assault is a game that threw out being kid friendly in favor of firmly grasping your feels, squeezing them hard enough to make you deeply uncomfortable, and then tearing them apart and leaving you to pick up the pieces. Why?

Because good ol' Shiggy M is a seriously cruel person. That's why.

By the way, you do see bodies in Assault. In fact, you produce quite a few corpses. Also, spoiler alert, you get to have tons of fun on Sauria walking amongst Aparoid infected, rotting, dinosaur corpses. All this while Krystal worries about the EarthWalkers.

I wanna agree but Assault felt like it always went halfway with everything. Sure Star Fox got a little more mature and darker but it always took a step back. The Aparoid threat was the first touch. Shooting robots is always acceptable, look at children's animation, however imagine the same game but if you were shooting down Andross' soldiers and mercenaries? Very different feel. Those monkeys have families! *Even a Storm Trooper had a life before service* Hell when the crew assaults *C WUT I DID THER* the Wolfen base you fight these generic bots. Hmmm I don't beleive SF Zero will have ground missions but if they do will they have the same cop-out?

Really? it's been a while since I've visited SF Assault but if I remember correctly  weren't the dinos just infected? the conceit of the game had them healed up by the end didn't it? As rough as it sounds I would've preferred Pigma, Andrew, General Pepper,and Peppy remain dead *SPOILER ALERT!* It cheapens the story to have them almost die and then be just fine, TWICE for Peppy, there be no stakes. Look I don't want every game to be that bleak but if they were gonna go there, go there. Kids can handle it, in fact they have; Macross did it!

[That Ain't Falco]

1 minute ago, Ocelotl said:

I wanna agree but Assault felt like it always went halfway with everything. Sure Star Fox got a little more mature and darker but it always took a step back. The Aparoid threat was the first touch. Shooting robots is always acceptable, look at children's animation, however imagine the same game but if you were shooting down Andross' soldiers and mercenaries? Very different feel. Those monkeys have families! *Even a Storm Trooper had a life before service* Hell when the crew assaults *C WUT I DID THER* the Wolfen base you fight these generic bots. Hmmm I don't beleive SF Zero will have ground missions but if they do will they have the same cop-out?

Really? it's been a while since I've visited SF Assault but if I remember correctly  weren't the dinos just infected? the conceit of the game had them healed up by the end didn't it? As rough as it sounds I would've preferred Pigma, Andrew, General Pepper,and Peppy remain dead *SPOILER ALERT!* It cheapens the story to have them almost die and then be just fine, TWICE for Peppy, there be no stakes. Look I don't want every game to be that bleak but if they were gonna go there, go there. Kids can handle it, in fact they have; Macross did it!

You don't fight robots in Sargasso. Those are all pirate ruffians. Also, Andrew and Pigma were brought back in Command, not Assault. Even so, Assault is rated T. It strongly drives in mature themes, and the plot goes incredibly deep, if you look for it. As an example, the game takes a brief detour to mention how Fox has been keeping Krystal off of the ground. He quickly apologizes, and the issue is resolved. Then you wonder why something like that would have happened.

Oh, I don't know, maybe he would be overly protective of a female character because his mother died while he was rather young. He would have been devastated. He would have seen his father devastated. Besides, Krystal has already lost everything. Her home, her people, her family. More reasons for overprotectiveness.

Then you have Panther, and his brilliantly feline character. And Leon's personality, and how it seems to be linked into his backstory. He seems to be an assassin who absolutely lost it somewhere along the line. Then you have Wolf's motivations, which Command just shredded because ???

If there's any game in the series that refuses to go all the way, it would be Command, and where it does go all the way, it does it in the completely wrong ways. Command is a game where Wolf starts an argument, and then gets angry at Fox because he doesn't like arguing. It's a game where Pigma drops a massive innuendo because Q-Games really couldn't be bothered to read the dialogue they wrote. It's a game where both of Falco's themes better suit skiing than flying. It's a game where two pointless female characters get introduced because Q-Games decided everyone needed a family for no reason. This would be okay, if Lucy and Amanda's personalities hadn't consisted of "I'm a GIRL" and little more. Also, family is clearly an important theme in the series. We would have known if Peppy had a wife, let alone a daughter.

Command is a game where everyone winds up with kids. It ends off a series that wasn't ready to end. Now THAT is how you only go half way. Speaking of, the entire Anglar backstory is so half baked it isn't even funny. Really? Radiation? Is that the best they could do?

Sadly, it really does seem so... At least the gameplay was solid.

[ArwingFan]

Commands story was a total trainwreck; I can see why its not considered canon. For one there are multiple endings with no indication on a canon one and two, it so contradictory. Sure, Adventures and Assaults story were somewhat sloppy but still nowhere near as bad as Commands.

[That Ain't Falco]

Just now, ArwingFan said:

Commands story was a total trainwreck, I can see why its not considered canon. For one there are multiple endings with no indication on a canon one and two, it so contradictory. Sure, Adventures and Assaults story were somewhat sloppy but still nowhere near as bad as Commands.

Adventures didn't take itself seriously at all. Good game, bad Star Fox game. Assault was a game that I only found to be sloppy in the controls department, but it's definitely my favorite in the series.

Personally, I really don't consider Command canon, not even the 'true' ending. Quite frankly, it would have done much better as a spinoff featuring Bill or somebody.

[ArwingFan]

4 minutes ago, That Ain't Falco said:

Personally, I really don't consider Command canon, not even the 'true' ending. Quite frankly, it would have done much better as a spinoff featuring Bill or somebody.

Which one is the true ending?

[That Ain't Falco]

Just now, ArwingFan said:

Which one is the true ending?

Some people claim the "Fox and Krystal" ending is. I'd rather forget that that ending existed,

[Ocelotl]

30 minutes ago, That Ain't Falco said:

You don't fight robots in Sargasso. Those are all pirate ruffians. Also, Andrew and Pigma were brought back in Command, not Assault. Even so, Assault is rated T. It strongly drives in mature themes, and the plot goes incredibly deep, if you look for it. As an example, the game takes a brief detour to mention how Fox has been keeping Krystal off of the ground. He quickly apologizes, and the issue is resolved. Then you wonder why something like that would have happened.

Oh, I don't know, maybe he would be overly protective of a female character because his mother died while he was rather young. He would have been devastated. He would have seen his father devastated. Besides, Krystal has already lost everything. Her home, her people, her family. More reasons for overprotectiveness.

Then you have Panther, and his brilliantly feline character. And Leon's personality, and how it seems to be linked into his backstory. He seems to be an assassin who absolutely lost it somewhere along the line. Then you have Wolf's motivations, which Command just shredded because ???

If there's any game in the series that refuses to go all the way, it would be Command, and where it does go all the way, it does it in the completely wrong ways. Command is a game where Wolf starts an argument, and then gets angry at Fox because he doesn't like arguing. It's a game where Pigma drops a massive innuendo because Q-Games really couldn't be bothered to read the dialogue they wrote. It's a game where both of Falco's themes better suit skiing than flying. It's a game where two pointless female characters get introduced because Q-Games decided everyone needed a family for no reason. This would be okay, if Lucy and Amanda's personalities hadn't consisted of "I'm a GIRL" and little more. Also, family is clearly an important theme in the series. We would have known if Peppy had a wife, let alone a daughter.

Command is a game where everyone winds up with kids. It ends off a series that wasn't ready to end. Now THAT is how you only go half way. Speaking of, the entire Anglar backstory is so half baked it isn't even funny. Really? Radiation? Is that the best they could do?

Sadly, it really does seem so... At least the gameplay was solid.

Really? I guess I mostly remember their barrel tossing robots... you sure? As much as I liked the expanded lore in Assault it wasn't very deep. Sorry it really wasn't. It had its moments but it never went anywhere with it. The Aparoids were never really a narrative force, why fight them? I get it to save the world but there was a disconnect. At least Andross' forces had character. As for Krystal she was just another poor victim of how women are written in media. her only defining feature here is that she wants to do Fox... and she's a telepath? That never really comes into play. I wish we could've gotten some dialogue about her home planet, I never felt that she was ever really part of Sauria... (Really what I want is a Wing Commander style game with Star Fox, that's just me) (Also we all know the problem with Adventure, the question now is do they keep it or retcon it?)

Hey quick question. Why do so many fans dislike Panther? He seemed fine to be, he was like a feline latin lover. He doesn't really do anything annoying, at least to me. (If anything the way Fox is written in Command it's probably healthier for Krystal to go with Panther who does care for her rather than this dismissive character they wrote for Command)

yeah Command got a little.... crazy with its endings but even before the story was just badly done. Again Krystal's only defining feature is that she's Fox's lady... and little else. Thankfully FOx got chewed out for his stupid sexist decision but in the end her ultimate destiny is tied to Fox and Fox only. All of her decisions are based around him and not her desires. Hell the writers actively punish her for her decisions! That stupid Kursed ending being one of them.

The problem with Command isn't that it ended with kids and a Xerox Generation but that characters got derailed and were not consistent. Then were was the odd female domestication angle, women revert back to their domestic roles after combat? Odd. As for the Anglars... again it has the same problem that all SF games have, that you are fighting other sentient beings rather than aparoids. Hmmm do you feel bad for taking out the Anglars? And should we? Should games that have us kill make us, at least a little bit, uncomfortable? 

19 minutes ago, ArwingFan said:

Commands story was a total trainwreck; I can see why its not considered canon. For one there are multiple endings with no indication on a canon one and two, it so contradictory. Sure, Adventures and Assaults story were somewhat sloppy but still nowhere near as bad as Commands.

Yeah kinda but it was fine for me until the endings. I thought the reason for the multiple endings was because it was probably going to be the last Star Fox? Hmm controls....

16 minutes ago, That Ain't Falco said:

Adventures didn't take itself seriously at all. Good game, bad Star Fox game. Assault was a game that I only found to be sloppy in the controls department, but it's definitely my favorite in the series.

Personally, I really don't consider Command canon, not even the 'true' ending. Quite frankly, it would have done much better as a spinoff featuring Bill or somebody.

Adventure took itself as seriously as it probably should have for the type of adventure it was supposed to be... *hate to beat this dead horse but if it remained Dinosaur Planet it could've gone other places, have some pathos whatever. It's an old argument at this point* I dunno they always seem kinda hesitant to give Star Fox Stronger stories, this ip could easily be Nintendo's Star Wars (Alongside Metroid). 

[That Ain't Falco]

11 minutes ago, Ocelotl said:

Really? I guess I mostly remember their barrel tossing robots... you sure? As much as I liked the expanded lore in Assault it wasn't very deep. Sorry it really wasn't. It had its moments but it never went anywhere with it. The Aparoids were never really a narrative force, why fight them? I get it to save the world but there was a disconnect. At least Andross' forces had character. As for Krystal she was just another poor victim of how women are written in media. her only defining feature here is that she wants to do Fox... and she's a telepath? That never really comes into play. I wish we could've gotten some dialogue about her home planet, I never felt that she was ever really part of Sauria... (Really what I want is a Wing Commander style game with Star Fox, that's just me) (Also we all know the problem with Adventure, the question now is do they keep it or retcon it?)

Hey quick question. Why do so many fans dislike Panther? He seemed fine to be, he was like a feline latin lover. He doesn't really do anything annoying, at least to me. (If anything the way Fox is written in Command it's probably healthier for Krystal to go with Panther who does care for her rather than this dismissive character they wrote for Command)

yeah Command got a little.... crazy with its endings but even before the story was just badly done. Again Krystal's only defining feature is that she's Fox's lady... and little else. Thankfully FOx got chewed out for his stupid sexist decision but in the end her ultimate destiny is tied to Fox and Fox only. All of her decisions are based around him and not her desires. Hell the writers actively punish her for her decisions! That stupid Kursed ending being one of them.

The problem with Command isn't that it ended with kids and a Xerox Generation but that characters got derailed and were not consistent. Then were was the odd female domestication angle, women revert back to their domestic roles after combat? Odd. As for the Anglars... again it has the same problem that all SF games have, that you are fighting other sentient beings rather than aparoids. Hmmm do you feel bad for taking out the Anglars? And should we? Should games that have us kill make us, at least a little bit, uncomfortable? 

Yeah kinda but it was fine for me until the endings. I thought the reason for the multiple endings was because it was probably going to be the last Star Fox? Hmm controls....

Adventure took itself as seriously as it probably should have for the type of adventure it was supposed to be... *hate to beat this dead horse but if it remained Dinosaur Planet it could've gone other places, have some pathos whatever. It's an old argument at this point* I dunno they always seem kinda hesitant to give Star Fox Stronger stories, this ip could easily be Nintendo's Star Wars (Alongside Metroid). 

The franchise already has an incredibly strong story. Next time you play through Assault, don't skip the dialogue or cutscenes. Think about the character interactions, and the implications of the events that take place. If anything, in comparison, Metroid has a shallow plot. Also, the way Assault uses music is absolutely brilliant, especially with the incredibly dissonant Corneria remix. I don't know where you were and why you don't think that the Aparoids aren't a driving narrative force, but they drive so much it isn't even funny. While no, they don't have a ton of exposition, do you really want to know the every in and out of a bunch of space bugs? It's how they affect character motives that they truly influence the plot.

I would go so far as to say that some Star Fox games actually have deeper plots than some Star Wars movies. I mean, gee, A New Hope sure was loaded to the absolute brim with plot and action, right? (Sarcasm, sarcasm, it actually introduces a ton of things it doesn't expand on, and would be considered little more than a cult classic if something similar were released today. It's a copy and pasted hero's journey with little innovation. Artoo and C3PO have more character development than some major characters. These are not good things. Assault, on the other hand, has a deep plot that takes several playthroughs to completely pick up. Characters are deep, and evolve as the plot moves on. It has an overarching theme that honor comes above all, and that sacrifice is often necessary, just as 64 emphasized (quite subtly, but brilliantly) overcoming fears, and Adventures took time to focus on the value of humility and appreciation of others' skills. Even if they are irritating and mostly useless and prone to getting captured.

[Ocelotl]

4 minutes ago, That Ain't Falco said:

The franchise already has an incredibly strong story. Next time you play through Assault, don't skip the dialogue or cutscenes. Think about the character interactions, and the implications of the events that take place. If anything, in comparison, Metroid has a shallow plot. Also, the way Assault uses music is absolutely brilliant, especially with the incredibly dissonant Corneria remix. I don't know where you were and why you don't think that the Aparoids aren't a driving narrative force, but they drive so much it isn't even funny. While no, they don't have a ton of exposition, do you really want to know the every in and out of a bunch of space bugs? It's how they affect character motives that they truly influence the plot.

I would go so far as to say that some Star Fox games actually have deeper plots than some Star Wars movies. I mean, gee, A New Hope sure was loaded to the absolute brim with plot and action, right? (Sarcasm, sarcasm, it actually introduces a ton of things it doesn't expand on, and would be considered little more than a cult classic if something similar were released today. It's a copy and pasted hero's journey with little innovation. Artoo and C3PO have more character development than some major characters. These are not good things. Assault, on the other hand, has a deep plot that takes several playthroughs to completely pick up. Characters are deep, and evolve as the plot moves on. It has an overarching theme that honor comes above all, and that sacrifice is often necessary, just as 64 emphasized (quite subtly, but brilliantly) overcoming fears, and Adventures took time to focus on the value of humility and appreciation of others' skills. Even if they are irritating and mostly useless and prone to getting captured.

Lol. Sure there are moments, like I said, but it's not a particularly complex plot. We can agree to disagree. I ain't sayin' it's bad tho. Now it does have an excellent score. I'll agree to that. Let's look to Star Trek, the Borg are a relatively similar menace, the aparoids never take over anyone like they do (a missed opportunity, Pigma is kind of assimilated but Pepper isn't really) but the conflict from those narratives don't come from the fighting but from the internal conflicts. How would we have them in SF? I don't need the Aparoids to be shakespearean but the situations around them. I kinda wish they were a result of Andross' experiments or meddling that could've forced Andrew's forces to be allies and not give the impression that a single, or two, races are evil. Yeah I know about Dash but he almost always ends up as monkey Hitler.

Well on Star Wars; keep in mind that that first movie was a stand alone they didn't really know if they would make more and really it didn't need sequels. It works on a more primal level. A lot of the story telling is done thru visuals rather than talkin'. Now don't get it twisted it's got its problems too but we're getting off topic. 

Another question. What kind of story should Star Fox have? Should it even have a narrative? I know Miyamoto is against cinematics and gutted the story in Mario Galaxy 2. Well If so what kinds? It can have drama, maturity does not equal swear words and vulgarity. Just look at the Redwall series, all anthropomorphic animals but with a plot that takes itself seriously but still has an air of fun and whimsy about it. Hell Miyamoto said that part of the inspiration for SF was Thunderbirds.(Not exactly GoT but not exactly sanitized either) I feel it can but....

[That Ain't Falco]

7 minutes ago, Ocelotl said:

Lol. Sure there are moments, like I said, but it's not a particularly complex plot. We can agree to disagree. I ain't sayin' it's bad tho. Now it does have an excellent score. I'll agree to that. Let's look to Star Trek, the Borg are a relatively similar menace, the aparoids never take over anyone like they do (a missed opportunity, Pigma is kind of assimilated but Pepper isn't really) but the conflict from those narratives don't come from the fighting but from the internal conflicts. How would we have them in SF? I don't need the Aparoids to be shakespearean but the situations around them. I kinda wish they were a result of Andross' experiments or meddling that could've forced Andrew's forces to be allies and not give the impression that a single, or two, races are evil. Yeah I know about Dash but he almost always ends up as monkey Hitler.

Well on Star Wars; keep in mind that that first movie was a stand alone they didn't really know if they would make more and really it didn't need sequels. It works on a more primal level. A lot of the story telling is done thru visuals rather than talkin'. Now don't get it twisted it's got its problems too but we're getting off topic. 

Another question. What kind of story should Star Fox have? Should it even have a narrative? I know Miyamoto is against cinematics and gutted the story in Mario Galaxy 2. Well If so what kinds? It can have drama, maturity does not equal swear words and vulgarity. Just look at the Redwall series, all anthropomorphic animals but with a plot that takes itself seriously but still has an air of fun and whimsy about it. Hell Miyamoto said that part of the inspiration for SF was Thunderbirds.(Not exactly GoT but not exactly sanitized either) I feel it can but....

Uh, Miyamoto has said that he wants to take an extremely cinematic approach with Star Fox. The Thunderbirds bit influenced the puppets of the first game, and then the talking animation in future games. The biggest inspirations for Star Fox were Argonaut's NESGlider prototype (which the SNES title was based on), and Star Wars. If Miyamoto didn't want cinematics, I really don't think we would have Zelda, Star Fox, or even Donkey Kong as we know it. Storytelling has always been a focus of his. If you're questioning weather of not the series should have a narrative, I think you're eating the crust and missing the pie.

[Ocelotl]

2 hours ago, That Ain't Falco said:

Uh, Miyamoto has said that he wants to take an extremely cinematic approach with Star Fox. The Thunderbirds bit influenced the puppets of the first game, and then the talking animation in future games. The biggest inspirations for Star Fox were Argonaut's NESGlider prototype (which the SNES title was based on), and Star Wars. If Miyamoto didn't want cinematics, I really don't think we would have Zelda, Star Fox, or even Donkey Kong as we know it. Storytelling has always been a focus of his. If you're questioning weather of not the series should have a narrative, I think you're eating the crust and missing the pie.

Yeah I know. That Miyamoto mind is at work again  That guy. I kinda want that puppet drama that Miyamoto wanted... sadly the era is gone, why not an animated TV show? Either 2D or 3D? Nintendo really hasn't had much non game media. Weren't there CHoose your own adventure books in the past? I mean heck SOnic Boom still has a a tv show and that game bombed. Miyamoto!!!

Hey man the crust is delicious as well!

Well back to overthinking it. So how should we take Star Fox 1 and 64? Is this a Macross situation where one is a dramatization within the world of Star Fox?

(Also why do fans hate Panther? I don't get it.)

[That Ain't Falco]

9 hours ago, Ocelotl said:

Yeah I know. That Miyamoto mind is at work again  That guy. I kinda want that puppet drama that Miyamoto wanted... sadly the era is gone, why not an animated TV show? Either 2D or 3D? Nintendo really hasn't had much non game media. Weren't there CHoose your own adventure books in the past? I mean heck SOnic Boom still has a a tv show and that game bombed. Miyamoto!!!

Hey man the crust is delicious as well!

Well back to overthinking it. So how should we take Star Fox 1 and 64? Is this a Macross situation where one is a dramatization within the world of Star Fox?

(Also why do fans hate Panther? I don't get it.)

Just a fyi, Nintendo actually has released a ton of non-game media. You've got stuff like the Hyrule Historia, tons of Nintendo Power comics (most of which were bad), the 1997 SF comic, the 2002 SF manga, a few flash games, a surprising amount of books, a few TLoZ mangas, board games, and maybe one too many 90s game cartoons. (The Super Mario Super Show, the Legend of Zelda cartoon, and the Donkey Kong Country cartoon with the really catchy theme song *HEEEEEYOOOO, look out down below*)

SF64 was a re-imagining of the first game. It was essentially the space epic Miyamoto had wanted, but the SNES couldn't handle. Now, we actually see a similar thing happening with Zero, but this time, Miyamoto has the technology he wanted from the start. If there's one guy that loves the Wii U, it's definitely him.

(I have seen no evidence of fans hating Panther. Most feel either indifferent or positively about him)

[ArwingFan]

>the 2002 SF manga,

Isn't Farewell Beloved Falco considered canon? Also I haven't seen any hatred for Panther either nor do I hate him myself.

Edited November 7, 2015 by ArwingFan

[That Ain't Falco]

23 minutes ago, ArwingFan said:

>the 2002 SF manga,

Isn't Farewell Beloved Falco considered canon? Also I haven't seen any hatred for Panther either nor do I hate him myself.

It's complicated. Its end kinda contradicts the very beginning of Adventures, but I consider it to be canon. Mainly becasue Fox gets a sword and the duel that it creates is excellent.

[Ocelotl]

17 hours ago, Ocelotl said:

7 hours ago, That Ain't Falco said:

Just a fyi, Nintendo actually has released a ton of non-game media. You've got stuff like the Hyrule Historia, tons of Nintendo Power comics (most of which were bad), the 1997 SF comic, the 2002 SF manga, a few flash games, a surprising amount of books, a few TLoZ mangas, board games, and maybe one too many 90s game cartoons. (The Super Mario Super Show, the Legend of Zelda cartoon, and the Donkey Kong Country cartoon with the really catchy theme song *HEEEEEYOOOO, look out down below*)

SF64 was a re-imagining of the first game. It was essentially the space epic Miyamoto had wanted, but the SNES couldn't handle. Now, we actually see a similar thing happening with Zero, but this time, Miyamoto has the technology he wanted from the start. If there's one guy that loves the Wii U, it's definitely him.

(I have seen no evidence of fans hating Panther. Most feel either indifferent or positively about him)

 

Man I'd almost forgotten about that weird CGI monstrosity. Donkey Kong what happened!?

Yeah i remember but most of those shows were confined to the 80's and early 90's. They did have that F-Zero anime. I remember it being okay. Kirby was probably their best non-VG effort in that era.

No Star Fox manga eh? Just those short comics? That's a shame.

Hmm maybe I was misreading that. Since Panther gets with Krystal in one of those endings I thought I saw some anti-Panther stuff. Guess I misread it.

[That Ain't Falco]

2 minutes ago, Ocelotl said:

Man I'd almost forgotten about that weird CGI monstrosity. Donkey Kong what happened!?

Yeah i remember but most of those shows were confined to the 80's and early 90's. They did have that F-Zero anime. I remember it being okay. Kirby was probably their best non-VG effort in that era.

No Star Fox manga eh? Just those short comics? That's a shame.

Hmm maybe I was misreading that. Since Panther gets with Krystal in one of those endings I thought I saw some anti-Panther stuff. Guess I misread it.

There was a SF manga, it was just short. Only 64 pages. Also, the Nintendo Power comic it got (often referred to as "The Itoh Comic," or "that god awful mess") was over 120 pages and actually contained the majority of the plot of the SNES game.

[TheVenetian]

Most games involve shooting or otherwise ending the lives of faceless simpletons. If you're going to think about the life and family of the person who you have just killed. Then that's a lot of thinking you have to do, especially if you feel bad about it. So, these games just have to be taken with a pound of apathy.

[Ocelotl]

On 11/7/2015, 10:55:03, TheVenetian said:

Most games involve shooting or otherwise ending the lives of faceless simpletons. If you're going to think about the life and family of the person who you have just killed. Then that's a lot of thinking you have to do, especially if you feel bad about it. So, these games just have to be taken with a pound of apathy.

Indeed. I think this is why it's harder to market Star Fox. WHile yes Metroid does have shooting, for most of the game you're isolated and when you fight they're usually monsters and inhuman looking pirates. A lot of the harshness of SF is softened because everyone is in a vehicle. Well a reason. Of course there's also Nintendo's constant want to innovate. Which is admirable but not necessary all the time. It;s why we haven't gotten a new F-Zero game...

Anyway back to the story of Star Fox. 

[DZComposer]

On 11/6/2015, 11:40:42, That Ain't Falco said:

Personally, I really don't consider Command canon, not even the 'true' ending.

There is no "True Ending" to SFC. That comes from Dylan Cuthbert, the game's director, himself. Nice thing about that is that It means that most of the game can be considered non-canon due to its "choose your own adventure" storyline.

[Scourge]

Thank fuck for that. SFC was horrible in every possible respect, save for the gameplay which itself was only passable at best.

It feels like someone on the story-board team went home one night, set their briefcase down, went to bed, and had all their ideas swapped around for the delusional fanfictions of said dev's 12 year old kid, all written crudely with crayon on construction paper with the occasional chocolate fingerprint stain in one of the corners.

I cannot fathom why anyone didn't immediately notice that the story was an utter pile of execrable trash and suggest: "hey guys, maybe we should actually try to not shoehorn in unnecessary drama and bullshit storyline threads with about a bajillion plotholes, and make a coheasive simple-to-follow story about shooting spaceships in the face"

Command is considered non-canon by the fans, developers, and apparently Nintendo alike if their rebooting of the franchise with Zero is any indication. Given the state of franchise as it is current; this can only be a good thing.

Rot in hell Command, you worthless pile of congealed failure.

[That Ain't Falco]

Command is, more or less, the rotten remains of 2 that someone scraped off of the bottom of their boot, licked, and thought tasted okay enough to make a game out of.

Not knocking 2, by the way.

[ArwingFan]

So how do animal products work in the Lylat system? I thought about this when Pigma tells the team to stop treating him like a pork roast in SFZ.

[Clearwater]

11 hours ago, That Ain't Falco said:

Command is, more or less, the rotten remains of 2 that someone scraped off of the bottom of their boot, licked, and thought tasted okay enough to make a game out of.

Not knocking 2, by the way.

While I agree that SF Command was the genuine low for the series story-wise, I don't get why so many people rage over it and instead focus on the better points of the game: for example, the graphics. I did say long ago that for a DS game, the graphics certainly were very good. I also heard a lot about how fun it was to play it online over the Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection.