Should StarFox feature a historical simulation game?

[SF Redd]

33 minutes ago, Leon said:

Monolith Soft has been a first party Nintendo studio since 2007, it is as much a Nintendo game as Star Fox Zero is. 

Anyways, do you think when Star Fox Zero entered development it began with a script from Takano and then Miyamoto made a game for it?

It doesn't matter if plot or gameplay came first. It has plot, and the series has a fairly extensive plot, at that.

Of course what the "average person" sees is an opportunity to blow stuff up in space, but like I said, look past the surface, and you'll find loads of lore. The series has great lore, and it is deep.

Star Fox is my favourite series by a mile, and one of the main reasons for that is the story. Hell, the story is what got me into the series in the first place!

[14432]

1 hour ago, unoservix said:

uh well okay but same question: i'm not seeing how Star Fox gets better or more interesting by making games that have pretty much nothing to do with Star Fox

well pokemon did a game witht he whole feudal war thing

[unoservix]

that isn't an answer to my question either >>

[Leon]

8 minutes ago, SF Alba said:

It doesn't matter if plot or gameplay came first. It has plot, and the series has a fairly extensive plot, at that.

Of course what the "average person" sees is an opportunity to blow stuff up in space, but like I said, look past the surface, and you'll find loads of lore. The series has great lore, and it is deep.

Star Fox is my favourite series by a mile, and one of the main reasons for that is the story. Hell, the story is what got me into the series in the first place!

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on our definitions of deep lore. 

8 minutes ago, 14432 said:

well pokemon did a game witht he whole feudal war thing

Pokémon is a massively popular IP which can take those kind of risks because it has enough fans to justify the investment in spinoff materials. Star Fox by comparison is a small IP which would need a massive chunk of the fanbase invested in the game for it to be successful. 

[14432]

1 hour ago, Leon said:

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on our definitions of deep lore. 

Pokémon is a massively popular IP which can take those kind of risks because it has enough fans to justify the investment in spinoff materials. Star Fox by comparison is a small IP which would need a massive chunk of the fanbase invested in the game for it to be successful. 

I'm a lore oriented kind of guy.

[That Ain't Falco]

If you're a lore oriented kinda guy, then, no doubt, you'll respect the series lore, including the definite European cultural influences. Corneria had knights, not samurai.

[14432]

7 hours ago, That Ain't Falco said:

If you're a lore oriented kinda guy, then, no doubt, you'll respect the series lore, including the definite European cultural influences. Corneria had knights, not samurai.

That stuff could have come from another part of the planet in the past much like how our earth has more than one country 

[14432]

On 4/6/2016 at 7:05 AM, That Ain't Falco said:

Look, the European past appears outside of Corneria, meaning it would have been pretty prominent. Clearly, it's a very large part of Cornerian history.

Look, man, if you want a feudal Japanese historical sim, and believe me, I do, too, Lylat isn't the place for it. You'd have to disregard canon for it to make sense. Not to mention, that if this Japanese culture was as widespread as you were proposing, Fox would probably have experience with using a katana, rather than quarterstaves and rapiers. 

you mean like how european/classical history dominates world history on earth?

[Navis]

@Leon just a random question.

will you still playing star fox if the game didn't have a plot? like an arcade game.

no quotes. just play trough the missions and beat andross.

 (i know)

 

[Leon]

I play Sin & Punishment and I don't even understand what the hell is going on. So yes, as long as the game is fun I would play it. 

[That Ain't Falco]

7 hours ago, 14432 said:

That stuff could have come from another part of the planet in the past much like how our earth has more than one country 

Then how did it wind up on Titania?

[14432]

5 hours ago, That Ain't Falco said:

Then how did it wind up on Titania?

imports

[The VGM Lover]

You know, I find it kinda hard to view Lylat's lore beyond the games and comics (Which I still never read, yet). Just throwing my opinion out here, if we were to try and put Lylat in a historical setting as far back as suggested, we would have to basically make an entirely new game that could only share the setting of Star Fox by that point, and nothing else. Not to put anybody down, but I don't think anyone's asking for another 'Star Fox Adventures' situation. Granted, I love Star Fox Adventures, but then again, I love all the games. Who do you call those kinds of fans that would hold on to their favourite franchise no matter where it goes, as long as it holds up, has the same feel, but doesn't give me the middle finger a la Banjo and Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts?

[14432]

1 hour ago, amcintyr9998 said:

You know, I find it kinda hard to view Lylat's lore beyond the games and comics (Which I still never read, yet). Just throwing my opinion out here, if we were to try and put Lylat in a historical setting as far back as suggested, we would have to basically make an entirely new game that could only share the setting of Star Fox by that point, and nothing else. Not to put anybody down, but I don't think anyone's asking for another 'Star Fox Adventures' situation. Granted, I love Star Fox Adventures, but then again, I love all the games. Who do you call those kinds of fans that would hold on to their favourite franchise no matter where it goes, as long as it holds up, has the same feel, but doesn't give me the middle finger a la Banjo and Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts?

I also thought up another time period to set it in: Corneria's version of WW2

[That Ain't Falco]

Have we considered that maybe the alien civilization doesn't follow a human timeline?

[14432]

2 hours ago, That Ain't Falco said:

Have we considered that maybe the alien civilization doesn't follow a human timeline?

falco mentioned Einstein in one level in 64.

 

look just because we never see that aspect fo corneria's history doesn't meant it never happened.

 

think the feudal japanese/oriental aspect of Corneria's past as being a forgotten culture

[unoservix]

46 minutes ago, 14432 said:

falco mentioned Einstein in one level in 64.

maybe you're just taking it too seriously and looking for detail where there isn't?

besides which how interesting can all this "lore" be if you're just doing glosses of actual human history but everyone is a furry and the names are mixed up? like, i already know how World War II goes, so who cares if everyone is furry and it's on a planet called Corneria instead of Earth, and it won't go differently because if it did, it wouldn't be "Corneria's version of World War II." it's an opportunity to tell a different story than the one we see in our history books so i should hope if you're going to come up with thousands of years of history for the planet Corneria, you'd have a little more originality than just porting over actual human history.

plus that means you have to end up creating Furry Hitler and The Furry Holocaust, and once you've created Furry Hitler and The Furry Holocaust you should really reevaluate all of your life choices

[That Ain't Falco]

That bit was clearly an error, as it was removed in the remake.

[14432]

1 hour ago, unoservix said:

maybe you're just taking it too seriously and looking for detail where there isn't?

besides which how interesting can all this "lore" be if you're just doing glosses of actual human history but everyone is a furry and the names are mixed up? like, i already know how World War II goes, so who cares if everyone is furry and it's on a planet called Corneria instead of Earth, and it won't go differently because if it did, it wouldn't be "Corneria's version of World War II." it's an opportunity to tell a different story than the one we see in our history books so i should hope if you're going to come up with thousands of years of history for the planet Corneria, you'd have a little more originality than just porting over actual human history.

plus that means you have to end up creating Furry Hitler and The Furry Holocaust, and once you've created Furry Hitler and The Furry Holocaust you should really reevaluate all of your life choices

I'm not porting it over, i'm doing a bit of "world-building" as in fictional countries based on the countries we have on earth.

 

they would be culturally similar but woud go by a different name and would be geographically different

[unoservix]

but you're not building a world, you're copy and pasting historical events from reality into the backdrop of a cartoony video game about furpeople fighting giant disembodied monkey heads in space. i mean, if this is a totally different planet from ours that's never had contact with us, why exactly do they have countries that are based on ours?

now, if you were really into world-building, it would make a big difference that your world is "geographically different' from ours because geography has such a strong influence on how societies develop. and sure, they would have to have some similarities to our own societies, so we can relate to them. but you're not proposing that. you're proposing reskinning feudal Japan and World War II so they look Star Fox-ish. and more than anything else, that's a pretty weaksauce idea of world-building.

you'd think world-building would be about letting your imagination run wild. like, you come up with the geography of the world they inhabit, and then you look at the history of these different cultures and see how the nearly-determining forces of their geography, biology, and basic economics interact with the far more contingent forces of culture, politics, and technology, and you just go from there, and the only place you know you're going is something that resembles the world of the Star Fox video games. that's world-building! instead of just giving us a gloss of one world's history that we already know, why not try to explain why the world of Star Fox is the way it is? and why not do that without just recycling actual history? it's sort of bizarre to say this to someone who says he's so into "the lore," but come on, use your imagination.

[The VGM Lover]

52 minutes ago, unoservix said:

it's sort of bizarre to say this to someone who says he's so into "the lore," but come on, use your imagination.

The best I got is seeing James in his prime with the Cornerian Army by his side before the 'investigation crisis'. We could explore Lylat's history from there by interacting with the Cornerian Army, and earning history files through various accomplishments.

 

[14432]

3 hours ago, unoservix said:

but you're not building a world, you're copy and pasting historical events from reality into the backdrop of a cartoony video game about furpeople fighting giant disembodied monkey heads in space. i mean, if this is a totally different planet from ours that's never had contact with us, why exactly do they have countries that are based on ours?

now, if you were really into world-building, it would make a big difference that your world is "geographically different' from ours because geography has such a strong influence on how societies develop. and sure, they would have to have some similarities to our own societies, so we can relate to them. but you're not proposing that. you're proposing reskinning feudal Japan and World War II so they look Star Fox-ish. and more than anything else, that's a pretty weaksauce idea of world-building.

you'd think world-building would be about letting your imagination run wild. like, you come up with the geography of the world they inhabit, and then you look at the history of these different cultures and see how the nearly-determining forces of their geography, biology, and basic economics interact with the far more contingent forces of culture, politics, and technology, and you just go from there, and the only place you know you're going is something that resembles the world of the Star Fox video games. that's world-building! instead of just giving us a gloss of one world's history that we already know, why not try to explain why the world of Star Fox is the way it is? and why not do that without just recycling actual history? it's sort of bizarre to say this to someone who says he's so into "the lore," but come on, use your imagination.

So how would you imagine a Starfox Game focusing on Corneria's history? 

For me I think it would be a time travel scenario

[That Ain't Falco]

You've got dreams, kid, You've got dreams.

[unoservix]

honestly i'm not sure what would really be so interesting about Corneria's history in particular anyway. the world of Star Fox is paper-thin as it is, but there's scraps of stuff that's way more interesting in it, like whatever is up with Titania.

but then if you have to go to some lazy device like time travel to shoehorn a Star Fox connection back in, well, that's kinda lame, y'know? like how Star Fox Adventures started out as its own game and then had Star Fox crammed in at the last minute.

[Arminius H O Fiddywinks]

I'm just happy with it all being up to our imagination. Now granted, not everyone has a decent imagination, but it's theirs.

Can't we all just agree on that?