David201's Star Fox Observations and Theories

[david201]

29 minutes ago, Robert Monroe said:

look

buddy

pal

guy

 

i understand that's what you're saying

what I AM SAYING is WHY are you saying that? what evidence exists, in game, that suggests Zero is Fox's own bias and 64 is Pepper/Cornerian propaganda? You can't just asspull theories without something to hold those theories up.

Zero ends with fox turning down pepper's request for him to join the cornerian army. 64 ends with pepper awarding them like they are in the military which is what Corneria/pepper would use as propaganda.

 

Venom's vastly different appearance could be the end result of the differing nature of each of these inconsistent sources

[Robert Monroe]

No, 64 ALSO ends with Fox turning down joining the Cornerian army. Zero and 64's ending are almost IDENTICAL in fact.

 

 

Venom is radically different in Zero yeah but that's because Zero puts Andross' extradimensional science to the forefront of the story instead of relegating it to a backstory note like it was in SNES/64.

[david201]

an attack on a convoy of freighters and several carriers assisting it. Immediately after the Mission starts, the Team gets a transmission from the enemy fleet, ordering them not to fire as they carry refugees being transferred to another planet. However Cornerian high command tells you that they're lying and that you must proceed with the attack. At this point you are given the decision: Call off the attack and disobey cornerian order or obey cornerian order attack the convoy.

 

If you call off the attack, the cornerians will scold you for not proceeding with the mission and take out a large portion of money from your final payment at the end of the game. If you do decide to attack, The Team unknowingly commits a war crime that involves the massacre of a civillian evacuation fleet. The incident becomes a major propaganda coup of the enemy side while corneria attempts to escape blame by accusing star fox as the ones responsible and not their faulty reconnaissance.

 

Keep in mind, the enemy here isnt a wannabee empire run by a maniacal mad scientist ape, this enemy is a legit Imperial superpower with citizens and all.

[david201]

8 hours ago, Robert Monroe said:

No, 64 ALSO ends with Fox turning down joining the Cornerian army. Zero and 64's ending are almost IDENTICAL in fact.

 

 

Venom is radically different in Zero yeah but that's because Zero puts Andross' extradimensional science to the forefront of the story instead of relegating it to a backstory note like it was in SNES/64.

But its cornerian propaganda regardless

[StarMaverick]

STOP

[Sylono]

David's been playing Star Wars Tie Fighter, I bet.

[Robert Monroe]

3 hours ago, david201 said:

But its cornerian propaganda regardless

HOW?

[Rusakov]

The "loop" part of the title makes me think of loup which makes me think of...

 

*Old meme is old.*

[Robert Monroe]

Ohhey, looks like the mods condensed all of these threads into a single megathread. Fun! Now all our replies look out of order and out of context lol.

[Xortberg]

It's great. The out-of-order, context free madness fits this topic perfectly.

[Dr. Orange]

Don't you just love the subtle beauty of chaos?

I know I do.

[Sylono]

I hope David makes this last a hundred pages.

[Naza Sutera]

Y'all queens are too funny.

[david201]

Honestly, since this is still science fiction, I feel that the Krazoan Technology as well as Krystal's staff aren't magic but were mistaken as magic by both salty and disapointed fans and in-universe by both the saurian tribes and cornerians. Remember Clarke's third law: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". On Sauria, what we see here is the classic case of primitive societies viewing advanced technology as Magic or Supernatural phenomena. The Krazoa would have been some technologically advanced space tribe in corneria's past who's technology was so advanced, even the Cornerians would mistaken it for magic. At some point, they either died out or fond away to transcend to ascend to a high plane of existence and a higher level of evolution in the form of the krazoa spirits. Warpstone would be something akin to an ancient robot that oversees and controls the warp network of sauria.

Krystal's staff would most likely also be an advanced technological weapon that was also mistaken for magic, possibly further implying that the cerinians are a technologically advanced society, possibly far more advanced than the cornerians. Why Cornerian's still view this stuff as magic should be a good indication of how advanced the krazoa and the cerinians are.

 

The magic can be easily hand waved as unfathomably sophisticated technology. I think that was what the game was supposed to imply, it looks like magic and that's how the primitive societies of sauria viewed it, but its actually technology from a civilization that exceeds corneria's state of development by eons.

 

Then i again i actually want magic and supernatural stuff to still happen in starfox. i believe that having a purely technological sci fi universe can get boring really fast. Mysticism and magic could add to the idea that not everything in the universe can be explained 

[Robert Monroe]

On 11/7/2017 at 2:10 PM, david201 said:

Honestly, since this is still science fiction, I feel that the Krazoan Technology as well as Krystal's staff aren't magic but were mistaken as magic by both salty and disapointed fans and in-universe by both the saurian tribes and cornerians. Remember Clarke's third law: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic".

This was probably INTENDED but nothing was ever made of it, and sometimes it IS blatantly said to just be magic (ie Spell Stones and literal "magic energy"). This is made more clear in unused DP64 voice lines and scripts where the Krazoa weren't spirits at all but super advanced aliens that used technology to become immortal. Sadly that at best can only be seen as semi-canon (also the Krazoa then were evil so pft).

[david201]

21 hours ago, Robert Monroe said:

This was probably INTENDED but nothing was ever made of it, and sometimes it IS blatantly said to just be magic (ie Spell Stones and literal "magic energy"). This is made more clear in unused DP64 voice lines and scripts where the Krazoa weren't spirits at all but super advanced aliens that used technology to become immortal. Sadly that at best can only be seen as semi-canon (also the Krazoa then were evil so pft).

I think even the cornerians call it magic just as a way of showing us how advanced the krazoa were. even advanced civilizations such as corneria pale in comparison

[fanfictiondreamer]

In my story, it literally is magic. I like to take difficult stuff like that and use it for my story. My mind is already complex so it fits perfectly with any crazy ideas that I have in mind.

But whatever, it's how I deal with stuff like this. I don't feel like it's a problem. Maybe I'll a little too adaptable to this kind of stuff.

[Robert Monroe]

Well I mean Peppy says the records of Sauria call it magic energy too so what can you do, there's just too little too vague information in the long run of things.

[david201]

Andross is much more racist and xenophobic in this situation. This time to the point of committing Genocide against the subspecies he hates. Whatever planet in Lylat, the Venomians invade and occupy (with the exception of Sauria), He has ordered his forces to round up and slaughter all except for the following:

- Primates (monkeys, apes, chimps, etc)

- Reptiles (Lizards, etc)

- Swine (Pigs, boars, hogs, etc)

They are permitted to kill reptiles, primates, and swine that resist though.

Some captured cornerian civilians are also sent to concentration camps and extermination camps where they would be either experimented upon, tortured, or put under extreme forced labor. all guaranteeing death. The Venomian captors feed them very little and they are actively encouraged to resort to cannibalism as a result. Children are either instantly executed or employed to work in the most extreme environments (often dying on the job).  

But that's not the end of it. Andross even goes the extra mile and sets out to engineer a virus to kill all except for those three subspecies, meaning that some of the more prominent cornerians are to be captured alive and experimented upon to help in andross's goal of engineering the virus.

 

On the Cornerian side, the situation is much more dire. It has gotten so bad that by the Time Starfox is contacted by Corneria, General Pepper has begun to exhibit, what I would say. . . "Stalin-esque" attributes to his personality and character. He even formed a cult of personality centered around him. During the siege of Corneria he orders only one single command to his forces and to the People, "Not one step back!"

The Cornerians have become so desperate that they begin to take on characteristics and attributes seen in the Soviet Red army during WW2. To which supplies are so low (Most of their production facilities have been captured by Venomian forces) that only 1 out of 2 soldiers is armed with a blaster rifle, the other being armed with only a makeshift melee weapon. Cowards,deserters, and traitors are to be shot and in every battle, the ships behind the main forces are ordered to fire at the slightest sign of cowardice,desertion or retreat.

Even civillians are forced to fight alongside the cornerian army, some without even proper weapons.

all along the cornerian front, and in cities under siege, cornerian civilians, instead of takign shelter, fight in the streets and amongst the ruins of their once beautiful homes, even civilian ships where converted into makeshift warships to help with the war effort.

Venomian prisoners are often poorly treated and tortured by the Cornerians, who exercise their vengeance and fury on their helpless captives.

 

Sot here you have it, a war in which one side commits war crimes and the other has grown so desperate that they become morally ambiguous. This leaves the starfox team, and a few others such as Bill grey or Katt Monroe to be the only people who at least still hang on to their moral compass and standards. Even Wolf would be forced out of the conflict. especially since hes a canine on the Venomian side. This would even cause loyalists such as Shears, to turn against Andross, especially when their lives are now in danger because of his rampant, near-genocidal xenophobia.

[Arminius H O Fiddywinks]

Actually I've got another idea, and I was hoping you'd listen to it. You will? Good!

 

So I was wondering if the Tropican Heer Infantry could do anything. You know, from Tropico.

The Tropicans were always cordial with Corneria for their cornered slices of corned casseroles, and I could envision them rummaging - wait, was it "rummaging" or "rampaging"? I could never get that - throughout the burned (or pruned) cities of Corneria, the cornerstones of corner slices. The Star Fox team, initially welcoming of the Tropican aid, soon quickly realise that it is all for naught, as the Tropicans would rather loot what is left of Corneria and dance on its ashes then help whoever remains. Andross meanwhile takes multiple bong rips and orders $500 worth of wings, because they were infused with CBD. He could have gone for the gold-covered $1000 wings but to him that was outrageous, and it did not even get him smacked.

Anyroad, the Tropicans are routed in the climactic Battle of My Favorite Color is Oh My God Bitch. This angered the Tropican president, Rey, and she went crazy. She started flipping tables and eating Oreos without the icing. It was madness. So she joined forces with Andross, but she became greedy as a result of the craziness and betrayed him, slaying him in a duel atop Mount Othros in the Battle of Mount Othros. However, as he is Andross he came back from the dead as a specter of the Dark side, but in the end Rey once again defeated him on another mountain: Mount Tachyon, in the Battle of Mount Tachyon.

Eventually, President Rey manged to seize control of the Empire (or perhaps Emirate? Hmm) that Andross, who has since changed his name to Anders because he in fact resurrected again but gave up the life of an Emperor to be a farmer in the Congo. Now, Star Fox has a new enemy, Rey and Tropico, but Tropico is indeed a fierce enemy, with its ally the Untied Soups of Amerigo Vespucci. Can Star Fox and what is left of Corneria fend off this mighty foe? No, because according to Tropican propaganda, President Rey is invincible.

[Shmibli7]

Arm, be nice...

[Sylono]

Because when I play Star Fox, I'm actively thinking "Ya' know what this series needs? Awkwardly shoehorned WW2 1-to-1 parallels."