Reboot

[Rapidfire]

No, not the television show. I mean the StarFox series in general.

Love or hate Adventures, Assault, and Command, it is widely held by fans and even casual observers that the series has taken a sharp turn into a dark alley since Lylat Wars/64. Most reviews of the post-64 days have been mixed at best, with the series apparently jumping the shark almost immediately after it became recognised as a series.

Adventures was a fine game in and of itself, but it probably turned away many casual gamers who had taken a liking to SF64 by virtue of being, as is often stated, a Zelda game with Fox and friends superimposed onto the form. Assault did not help matters by having a weak overall presentation, trying desperately to emulate the formula of SF64 but ultimately just proving to be an overdramatic rehash of 64 with no winning new additions. Command was, for the most part, a good game, but by then it was apparent that the GameCube releases had hurt the franchise enough to dent a hypothetically greater number of sales if it had been the direct successor to 64.  Add to this the fact that there are any number of console purists who treat handheld releases like slime and the dissatisfaction of the multiple endings. Fox's greatest appearance in the last video game generation was Melee, one might say.

Any number of reasons could be attributed to this unhappy reversal of fortunes. Miyamoto stated in an interview with Entertainment Weekly (http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20037961,00.html?cid=recirc-peopleRecirc) that one of the possible missteps in the franchise was delivering it to outside developers. As has been said in many "what should be in StarFox Wii?" topics, the storyline needs some serious love. Has the series become too serious? Should Nintendo rope this one in and develop the next game in-house? How do you think StarFox can be fixed? Can it be fixed at all, or is it irreparably broken at this impasse? Should Ninty reboot the series as was done between the original and 64, or would that be asking for lightning to strike twice on a sunny day?

[Mr. Krystal]

Well, I believe that if Nintendo gives Miyamoto some time to work on this game, he can pull off the brilliant stories he's so good at (when he wants to). I would say that the Star Fox series is beyond saving, and I would disagree that SFAd turned off casual gamers. I would say that SFAd turned off hardcore gamers, who were expecting improvement on near perfection that was SF64. Anyway, my point is, get Miyamoto involved and we'll have magic.

[ARWINGCOMMANDER 3987]

Yeah, maybe Star Fox should start over with a new storyline.

[Star Fox Runner]

Well, I believe that if Nintendo gives Miyamoto some time to work on this game, he can pull off the brilliant stories he's so good at (when he wants to). I would say that the Star Fox series is beyond saving, and I would disagree that SFAd turned off casual gamers. I would say that SFAd turned off hardcore gamers, who were expecting improvement on near perfection that was SF64. Anyway, my point is, get Miyamoto involved and we'll have magic.

I agree and disagree with you Mr. Krystal. I believe that nothing is beyond saving unless you have absolutely destroyed it, and Star Fox isn't that far gone yet. If Miyamoto and Nintendo get full control of the next game, they can bring the franchise out of this dive and make it as good as it was.

[Splinter Sensei]

Yes i beleive the next game could have a huge inpact on the future of starfox!

[Nightwolf]

i think that everyone is more or less curious as to where the storyline is going to go next.  personally i loved the different directions the series has gone in, as you get different angles of what it's like to be fox, however many of my friends who like the series say that the concept of the game needs to go back to the basics.  this would mean another game similar to the playing style of '64 and the original where you more or less just fly straight through the levels.  in my opinion the game is far from up if the developers play their cards right... everyone loves a good storyline... I'll also agree with mr. krystal about getting miyamoto involved.  that alone would probably do wonders, as this is the guy who basically made the series.  if there's anyone who knows exactly where and how it should go next, it's him...

[Sabre]

I think its more like resident evil or a soap opera, where each episode has its own story, but there is an overreaching personal arc. ei, anyone can pick up any starfox game and work out that the bad dudes have to be taken down. The character stuff (hat most of us are interested in) is extra.

[ARWINGCOMMANDER 3987]

Yeah, but I'm still interested in seeing what a reboot of the storyline would be like. Maybe we'd have things happen like Krystal's family is still alive, Panther is never introduced (We wish!      ), and maybe have Andross take on a modernized version of his giant robot head form from the original Star Fox. I love that thing! Just wish I got to fight it.

Also, definitely get Myomoto back in the pilot seat for this series! He's the one who does things right!

[Sabre]

Was mayonaso ever there? Also why do people think all of his games are great? remember sunshine?

[ArwingMaster/]

Yeah ,but we are talking about starfox not sunshine.

[Rapidfire]

If memory serves, Miyamoto came up with the flight aspect of the original and then let Imamura run with developing the characters.

To editorialise, I agree with Miyamoto about developers. When the series was let out to fraternise with outside developers, there were some strange lovechildren released for the GameCube as a consequence. Even with the turn of Adventures, it had one thing that Assault was distinctly lacking: quality control. Quirky controls, a passive-aggressive damage sensor, camera issues, and an uninspired story were a few of the most overt pitfalls of Assault. I would like to see EAD produce the next StarFox; they likely understand the series and its roots better than any other developer that had this series dumped on it--well, Q-Games Ltd. did an acceptable job with Command, but that is mostly because Dylan Cuthbert had a background in the series.

Having Miyamoto oversee production is not a guarantee that the game would be a success, but he probably will be a supervisor to the project just for the implementation of the Wii's hardware. However, Miyamoto is profoundly creative enough to make something meaningful out of what he will be given to work with for this instalment of the series. It's mostly dependent on how much effort is put into the revitalisation.

[Sabre]

Most did better when let out to 'fratranise'? F-Zero and Metroid were miles better then all the other efforts. Plus some of the best games ever made were a million miles away from nintendo, and were even censored by them for the GC releases. I'm mainly taking about freedom fighters here. I would go on, but that would derail the topic to much.

[Rapidfire]

I was really only talking about StarFox in particular about developers; I agree completely that Metroid and F-Zero had incredible titles for the GC when given over to outside developers. It simply seems that Ninty threw StarFox out to Rare and Namco in an effort to be friendly with their external developers and published those efforts with more of a focus on timeliness and less focus on quality.

[Guest Chiro-Chan]

I don't mean to dredge here, and if I have, I'm sorry, but I have an idea.

I've started lurking on this huge site for EarthBound, called 'Starmen.net'. One of the things they do is call, mail, and in general, pester the crap out of Nintendo, as EarthBound has been heavily neglected by Nintendo. Star Fox fans aren't doing a thing about how badly their beloved series has been neglected, unlike the EarthBound fans, who are doing everything they can. I propose that we get multiple sites to perhaps do something similar to what Starmen.net has done. If a game series that has only had 3 games, and 2 are Japan-Only, then we can do the same as them, and say 'Hey Nintendo, we want another cool game too!' and perhaps in general, boost the morale of the fanbase. Maybe even the series will start to get more respect from other fanbases as well. In general, most people regard this as 'just some stupid game with furries', but I think the series is more than that. Maybe this is just a stupid boost of optimism, and I'm half-crazy, but why don't we get together ('we' as in the Star Fox fans, not just SF-O, but all of those other sites as well), and show them what we *really* want? It could even bring the overall Star Fox fan community closer than just a few random sites scattered across the internet. If we just sit here and don't do anything, I don't think the situation will get any better.

Getting Miyamoto involved WOULD help, but as far as I recall, he just doesn't care about it as much as he does with Mario and Zelda, and those other popular ones. In the end, it all boils down to what Nintendo does, but no one's saying that we can't have a say in what happens with our beloved game series. Let's show these people who we are, and what we want. I'm not sure how much it would help, but I believe that if we try, we could at least make some progress.

My 2 cents, anyways.

[PuffNStuff]

I think by creating a darker story would involve more american gamers. That article is right (the EW one), halo is whooping ass. Maybe if starfox was just a bit more dark and violent, maybe nintendo could swing back more fans. Of course, then we bring the prospect of having Miyomoto create a good, dark and violent starfox game. It would be new, and if he would pull it off good. Who knows?

[Mr. Krystal]

I think by creating a darker story would involve more american gamers. That article is right (the EW one), halo is whooping ass. Maybe if starfox was just a bit more dark and violent, maybe nintendo could swing back more fans. Of course, then we bring the prospect of having Miyomoto create a good, dark and violent starfox game. It would be new, and if he would pull it off good. Who knows?

On the other hand, they could partially chibi-fy the whole game and make it less serious for appeal to Japanese gamers, women, and the casual audiences.

[Sabre]

My money is on Mr Ks idea. Nintendo hates dark things. Look at red steel, (or 'steel' as I call it) freedom fighters and (possably) project hammer.

[ARWINGCOMMANDER 3987]

We don't want Star Fox to be too light hearted, or else it will look like Bucky O'Hare, only crappier! The only tone changes I'd make are:

-Krystal's family is still alive, and Cerinia hasn't been blown apart.

-General Pepper is a bit more comical.

-Falco gets bi@#$ slapped for being so rude.

I don't think Nintendo hates dark things. What about Zelda? Metroid Prime? F-Zero? Well, F-Zero and Zelda are just really serious, that's all. Besides, some kids games have their darkness. Remember where Banjo-Kazooie went off after Banjo-Tooie? The main villain actually getting killed, some of the good guys are killed (Yet brought back to life afterwards), I know that stuff is meant as silly and not too gruesome, but Banjo-Tooie was still much darker than the first game.

Maybe Star Fox just needs to be a bit more violent. None of the games to date have had any bloodshed. Does Star Fox need blood?

[Sabre]

We don't want Star Fox to be too light hearted, or else it will look like Bucky O'Hare, only crappier! The only tone changes I'd make are:

-Krystal's family is still alive, and Cerinia hasn't been blown apart.

-General Pepper is a bit more comical.

-Falco gets bi@#$ slapped for being so rude.

Contradiction.

I don't think Metroid and F-Zero are dark. Just because it extends beyond using primary colours doesn't make it dark.

As for blood, Starfox doesn't need it, but if you are ever on foot vs fleshies, it would make sense.

[Guest Chiro-Chan]

...You don't need a 'darker story line' to make things better. I think that could even make things worse, and Star Fox 64 is about as 'dark' as you can get without getting blood and guts, and let's face it, Star Fox isn't a blood and guts game. I'd say for the tone, just leave it as it was for Star Fox 64.

And I wouldn't say Nintendo 'hates' dark stories. EarthBound 2 looks fairly cutesey at first, but the story is actually really deep, and almost tearjerking at some points. (The following statement contains spoilers for EarthBound 2) One of the main points of the story involves a nice little family being torn up, and two of the family members (the mother, and one of the two brothers) end up dead by the end of the story. You can't judge a game's story by its graphics and tone.

...Anyways, did anyone read what I said earlier? We should get together, and show them that we want another cool game, instead of just sitting here and moping about how 'the new games all suck'.

[Rapidfire]

I agree with you there, Chiro; 64 set a pretty good tone as far as darkness in its storyline. The series could, perhaps, push the envelope a bit more but it wouldn't strictly be necessary to contrive to be another Gears of War to be a good series again.

As far as getting the StarFox fandom to operate one large, universal goading stick, there is only a remote chance of seeing that much happen effectively. We all want StarFox to be better, yes, but how that is to be accomplished is where the general agreement ends. Starmen.net is a great site that I used for researching the Mother series, but considering that we've only ever seen EarthBound over here in the West (and Sakurai taunting us by alluding heavily to Mother 3 in SSBB didn't help) indicates that Nintendo, as vast as that company is, probably did not get where it is today by rolling over for its fans. Don't get me wrong; annoying Ninty is not a bad idea. It is just not necessarily one that will ensure any more success than anything else short of holding a major executive for ransom.

So, does StarFox need blood? Eh, not really. As an instance, Assault, as flawed as it was, came across as being highly emotionally charged without committing to the deaths of any major characters. Nintendo doesn't hate dark things, but it prefers being kid-friendly first if it can be helped, so I wouldn't expect any more violence than the usual fantasy variety.

[ARWINGCOMMANDER 3987]

Well, I wouldn't want a darker Star Fox either, but if it was kid-friendly like Mario, ugh!! It would be like how Dr. Eggman was is The Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog, and Sonic X. Both of those versions are mostly comical and goofy, even though the second and third cartoon versions of Eggman were a bit more serious.

Star Fox should probably stay at the same tone that it had in Star Fox 64, Adventures, and Assault. Command made it too emotional.

[Sabre]

Only sonic cartoon I liked was the serious one about the rebels.

[Sideways]

Commonly known as SatAM. I've got the series on DVD.

[Guest Chiro-Chan]

@Rapid:

Well, I know it probably won't help much, but it might rally the optimism of the fanbase more (maybe), and even if we get screwed over in the end, we can't say we didn't do anything. *shrugs* I dunno, I say it's worth a shot though.

And hey, what brought people back playing Star Fox 64, even after the 90's? They need to make a game like that. Excellent replay value, and have about a million and 1 things to do. I've always kind of liked the idea of side-missions given out from more than just the CDF...