Asper's Automotive Corner.

[Showtime 1-1]

Hey Asper, would you way that North American cars depreciate in value more then European cars, on average?

I notice that in the North American industry, much more emphasis is placed on the social value of a car, and this it's image and styling, then the important bits like reliability and affordability. And since styles change so often, even late model cars depreciate quickly simply because they're not "as cool" as the newest models, regardless of design integrity.

Conversely, cars based around performance, reliability, economy and other sensible things (I'm picturing a VW Golf, aside from the "performance" part ) seem to retain their value much longer, not to mention lasting longer too.

[Asper Sarnoff]

Hey Asper, would you way that North American cars depreciate in value more then European cars, on average?

I notice that in the North American industry, much more emphasis is placed on the social value of a car, and this it's image and styling, then the important bits like reliability and affordability. And since styles change so often, even late model cars depreciate quickly simply because they're not "as cool" as the newest models, regardless of design integrity.

Conversely, cars based around performance, reliability, economy and other sensible things (I'm picturing a VW Golf, aside from the "performance" part ) seem to retain their value much longer, not to mention lasting longer too.

It's simply because cars are viewed as more expendable in the US than in Europe. American cars are a lot cheaper to buy, therefore people switch them in for a new one a lot more often that in any European country.

But I'm wondering where you got from that VW Golf's are reliable? I worked at a VAG workshop for some time, and I've yet to see cars with more troubles than VW's, Audi's, Seat's and Skoda's. Brand new Audi's came in with malfunctioning fuel injection system. A VW had it's gearbox overhauled and repaired for the seventh time after around 150 000 miles.

[Kursed]

so which is more reliable the european or US Car?

[Asper Sarnoff]

so which is more reliable the european or US Car?

Difficult question to answer. Both have made cars which are legendary for lasting millions of miles, and for making cars which can hardly get out of the showrooms before they fall apart.

I'd set my money on american cars however. They are for the most part less complex than equivelant european cars, that is not something which necesarily makes them worse, but it drastically decreases the number of things that can go wrong.

[Sabre]

Difficult question to answer. Both have made cars which are legendary for lasting millions of miles, and for making cars which can hardly get out of the showrooms before they fall apart.

I'd set my money on american cars however. They are for the most part less complex than equivelant european cars, that is not something which necesarily makes them worse, but it drastically decreases the number of things that can go wrong.

I disagree. As I just said in another thread, american cars are famous for falling appart and genral low build quality.

[Asper Sarnoff]

I disagree. As I just said in another thread, american cars are famous for falling appart and genral low build quality.

And the same are italian, british and french cars. Germany is hardly any better, and former east block countries have had tons of jokes about how dreadfull their cars are. Sweden used to make bomb-proof cars before.

I've gone two years school as a mechanic, and have been working on cars for several years before that. And all of my friends that know anything about cars agree with me when they say that american cars in general hold together a lot better than what most european cars do.

[Guest Julius Quasar]

Automakers learned one hell of a lesson from Studebaker...

Studebaker made their cars to last forever (it's true, those damn cars CAN last practically forever) and that hurt any resale capability, especially when they saturated the market with the first generation of those die hard cars.  That's why automakers purposely design cars to break and fall apart after X amount of years, so they can sell more of 'em.  That's why newer cars are made with flimsier and flimsier materials :P

[Showtime 1-1]

Automakers learned one hell of a lesson from Studebaker...

Studebaker made their cars to last forever (it's true, those damn cars CAN last practically forever) and that hurt any resale capability, especially when they saturated the market with the first generation of those die hard cars.  That's why automakers purposely design cars to break and fall apart after X amount of years, so they can sell more of 'em.  That's why newer cars are made with flimsier and flimsier materials

Quick! don your tin-foil hats!

Actually I've heard of quite a few manufacturing companies going out that way. Hayes trucks for example, and Cessna almost went out that way a couple times.

And Asper, I know three families that have early 1990's Volkswagen Jettas and Golfs as second cars, and they are still all working fine. They are each a bit rusted, and not quite as perky as I assume they once were, but they are consistently more reliable then the Ford Minivans and Chevy SUVs they also drive, which seem to be assembled like Mr. Potato Heads by human-resenting robots.

[Asper Sarnoff]

And Asper, I know three families that have early 1990's Volkswagen Jettas and Golfs as second cars, and they are still all working fine. They are each a bit rusted, and not quite as perky as I assume they once were, but they are consistently more reliable then the Ford Minivans and Chevy SUVs they also drive, which seem to be assembled like Mr. Potato Heads by human-resenting robots.

Well, the older ones are certainly better than their new ones. I'm definatively never going to buy any VAG product after I've seen how well they're put together.  Yes I know Lambo belongs to VAG, but I prefer the cars they made before they were taken over by them.

[Kursed]

I have a 91 doge caravan that's worked out so far..

[Sabre]

Automakers learned one hell of a lesson from Studebaker...

Studebaker made their cars to last forever (it's true, those damn cars CAN last practically forever) and that hurt any resale capability, especially when they saturated the market with the first generation of those die hard cars.  That's why automakers purposely design cars to break and fall apart after X amount of years, so they can sell more of 'em.  That's why newer cars are made with flimsier and flimsier materials

1 problem. British Layland. They made really bad cars, when the japanese came in with cars that worked, everyone went asian. I will agree that the quality of stuff is down in terms of durability and maintainence. (Dell is famous for it) But there is a minimum you can go to before it becomes to risky to do.

When the scrapage sceme came out (you get 3 grand towards a new car if you scrap your old car. A stupid cure for global warming, but whatever) all the dealships just added 3 grand to their prices, thus nulling the entire system.

[Guest Julius Quasar]

Quick! don your tin-foil hats!

Ah, shut up!

Actually I've heard of quite a few manufacturing companies going out that way. Hayes trucks for example, and Cessna almost went out that way a couple times.

Exactly! (thanks!)

Boy, the 1958 Ford Edsel was something else...

What was part of their downfall was:

1. They had a problem with the starter systems

2.  They had that big, silly, front grille "OOMMMPH!"   

3. The were introduced at a time when everyone was stepping away from "Big, Gas Guzzling, Hard-To-Park Cars".  Smaller, faster, more fuel efficient cars like the VW's were hitting the market at that time.

However, there are Ford Edsels still out there, very popular to certain collectors, there's even "Edsel Collector's Clubs" out there.

I've seen and even touched a Ford Edsel, at a car show.  Not bad. :yes:

[Asper Sarnoff]

Okay, time for a update on the automotive front.

Ahem, first off. I guess everybody here have heard of the problems Toyota have had with accelerator pedals that jam on at full throttle?

What is wrong in that one might ask, that's a problem cars from different manufacturers have had as well over the years, they're recalling the affected cars, so they can fix the problem.

Or are they? Some sniffing around revealed that only 15% of the vehicles affected by the problems are recalled! And that some who allready have had the problem "fixed", have experienced afterwards that the accelerator has jammed on.

This has been a problem for Toytoa over almost a decade, but they have always brushed it under the carpet and hid themself behind a mask of someone who make faultless cars with outstanding quality, and when their back come against the wall, they resort to something which can only be described as a PR-stunt to get away from it.

And before anyone say that I'm a biased muscle car enthusiast which would like nothing more than seeing Toyota fall, I want to say I learned to drive in a Toyota, and another one saved my life during a crash. I had nothing but infinite respect for them untill I heard this, and started to dig out the cold, hard truth.

If you're interested in reading more, I'll recommend checking out this thread:

http://forums.motortrend.com/70/8108295/the-general-forum/the-toyota-recall-thread-all-toyota-recall-posts-g/index.html

On a more cheerfull note, Ford is going to give the 2011 Mustang a pair of fresh hearts in form of two brand new engines replacing the underpowered lumps it now has.

The new base engine replacing the ancient 210 HP 4.0 litre V6 is a 3.7 litre V6 putting out 310 HP(that's the same as the current V8 option!), also weighting less and using less fuel.

But as all real car enthusiasts will agree on: Muscle cars are all about V8's.

The Mustang GT will get an aluminium 5.0 litre V8 churning out 417 hp and about 400 lb-ft of torque.

The Mustang GT have always been able to hit harder than its till now only mediocre 310 HP engine would suggest. With over 100 more horses under the hood, the Camaro SS is really going to have to watch its rearview mirrors.

Also, while on the topic of the Camaro.

Till now, neither the Challenger of the Camaro have had something to run up against the expensive, but powerfull Ford Shelby GT-500, untill now!

After many back and forths, it's finally official. The Z-28 is coming!

What does this mean? Well apart from a few bits and pieces on the outside to make it look even more badass, it will get the LSA out of the Cadillac CTS-V, which means 556 rampant horses and 551 lb-ft (747 Nm) of torque.

Naturally, it will get a few suspension tweaks, and a beefed up drivetrain to handle the extra grunt. Lovely!

That is all for this time. If someone have something on their mind they want to share, please feel free to post!

[Eagle Kammback]

I'm an AMC guy, I have two AMC Eagles, an 83 wagon, my daily driver, and I get 30MPG, and an 81 Kammback with 300,000 miles, that is my project car.

My dad is buying a Honda V65 Magna this coming week, I just love a V4 Honda, though I prefer the V65 Sabre, but the Honda Super Magna is beautiful, Honda has a habit of making great bikes for a short period of time

Here is my wagon

My dream cars are the 1969 AMX 390 4 Speed, and the 1970 AMC Rebel Machine, in the RWB Paint and a 4 speed

I've always been a fan of American cars, won't drive anything else, there are a few exceptions, mostly classics and Aston Martins though.

I LOOOOVE the NEw Camaro, my dad's first car was a 69 SS 396 with an automatic, when I was a kid my dad had a 77 F150 Ranger XLT, and later a 79 F150 "GT" somebody had "fixed it up" and did a horrible job, aftermarket alarm systems suck, or at least all the ones I've had experience with do

I worked at a hot rod shop/repair shop for 3 years, hated the job, I never got to work on cars other than an oil change, though I still drop by to shoot the breeze with the guys, one of the guys I worked with there ended up being the same guy who built the engine for my dad's 58 Vette when he was a little older than me. my dad wanted a stock engine to replace the maxed out 327 that she had, and this guy had built a Duntov 283 and traded it no money involved, he even did the swap himself

[Asper Sarnoff]

AMC Eagles? Those are really cool! Real "off-road-sleepers" those, as one can clearly see in this video. Can't imagine any of the other roughed up station wagons decending from it, such as the Subaru Outback, Audi Allroad or Volvo XC70, do something even remotly similar.

Been considering to buy one someday, preferably an SX/4. Would make a great winter car as long as one gives it proper rust protection and take good care of it. But I'm also kind of dragged on to an old, kitted out Chevy Blazer as well.

[Kursed]

by the way Asper do you like your  Corvette Personlly I'm a truck person.

[Asper Sarnoff]

by the way Asper do you like your  Corvette Personlly I'm a truck person.

Like? I absolutely adore it. To the point I pet it and talk to it like one would do to a living being.

I'm also a truck person sort of. After all, my first real car love was the brute known as the Hummer H1/HMMWV, and I borrow my dads pickup truck as my daily driver. Like taking it for light off-road excursions in the woods as well when my parents are away. :lol:

[Guest FoXXX]

by the way Asper do you like your  Corvette Personlly I'm a truck person.

Yeah, trucks <3

[Kursed]

Like? I absolutely adore it. To the point I pet it and talk to it like one would do to a living being.

I'm also a truck person sort of. After all, my first real car love was the brute known as the Hummer H1/HMMWV, and I borrow my dads pickup truck as my daily driver. Like taking it for light off-road excursions in the woods as well when my parents are away.

well honestly i've never driven or nor has my family had a toyota. we've only had ford and dogde (counting the caravan) but as far as I know we've never had a toyota.

a h1 you lucky little viking.... i hear those things don't hold their value though sadly and I've rode ina military H1 when i was a yooooooung kid.

[Eagle Kammback]

and talk to it like one would do to a living being.

I do the same thing to my car, though I refer to them as She's

Yeah, that video is from a member on the AMC Eagle Nest, Mick, he's got his own custom 4x4 shop, Evolution 4x4, cool guy, you should see his SX/4 now

I've always wanted to get an SX/4 and build it for street performance, you know, overtaking Audis on the straights and corners

[Asper Sarnoff]

well honestly i've never driven or nor has my family had a toyota. we've only had ford and dogde (counting the caravan) but as far as I know we've never had a toyota.

a h1 you lucky little viking.... i hear those things don't hold their value though sadly and I've rode ina military H1 when i was a yooooooung kid.

Opps, perhaps you misunderstood me there. We don't actually own a H1. Hopefully I'll be able to afford one some day.

I do the same thing to my car, though I refer to them as She's

Yeah, that video is from a member on the AMC Eagle Nest, Mick, he's got his own custom 4x4 shop, Evolution 4x4, cool guy, you should see his SX/4 now

I've always wanted to get an SX/4 and build it for street performance, you know, overtaking Audis on the straights and corners

Hehe, yeah. A car with a Corvette C3's gorgeus shapes is definatively a "she".

[Kursed]

Opps, perhaps you misunderstood me there. We don't actually own a H1. Hopefully I'll be able to afford one some day.

Hehe, yeah. A car with a Corvette C3's gorgeus shapes is definatively a "she".

your still a lucky viking to have been able to drive one.

[Eagle Kammback]

H1 is the only REAL Hummer in my opinion, designed by AMC Too, back when they owned AM General

There is a guy with a pretty sweet 79 Corvette who picks his daughter from school in it, I see it when I pick up my sister, I'll take a picture when I see it again, you'll like it

I love all Corvettes, the 63-67 Sting Rays are my favorite, followed by the 58-62s, they look much better with 4 headlights

[Asper Sarnoff]

your still a lucky viking to have been able to drive one.

Tell me about it. Was this absolutely awesome guy that let me behind the wheel of his H1 some years ago. Left a lasting impression so to speak.

H1 is the only REAL Hummer in my opinion, designed by AMC Too, back when they owned AM General

It is. Not to say the H2 or H3 are bad cars. They aren't, but worthy to carry on the legacy after the H1 they were not. Also, the customers they attracted didn't do any good to Hummers repultation.

There is a guy with a pretty sweet 79 Corvette who picks his daughter from school in it, I see it when I pick up my sister, I'll take a picture when I see it again, you'll like it

I love all Corvettes, the 63-67 Sting Rays are my favorite, followed by the 58-62s, they look much better with 4 headlights

Thanks, I'd appreciate having a look at it.

[CrypticQuery]

I've always admired the 70' Ford Torino, the 69' Dodge Charger, the 70' Cadillac el Dorado, the 1986 Nissan 300ZX, etc. 

(I'd paint them all in Arwing colors)  :cool: