Starfox: Is it meant to be a rail shooter forever or other?

[Starfox mccloud15]

I think it's meant to be much more because the universe in which characters live in is very rich, and can be used to make many things.

[Star Fox Runner]

I think it needs to stay with on rails features, it wouldn't be Star Fox without it. Even Adventures had SOME on rails levels.

But I think a refined Assault is the way the series needs to go. I would like to see the ground levels put into a more advanced third person shooter, not so that is exceedingly difficult, but not like Assault's levels.

[Guest FoXXX]

I think it needs to stay with on rails features, it wouldn't be Star Fox without it. Even Adventures had SOME on rails levels.

But I think a refined Assault is the way the series needs to go. I would like to see the ground levels put into a more advanced third person shooter, not so that is exceedingly difficult, but not like Assault's levels.

Less than 5% of the whole game was in an arwing, I don't think it's bad to have third person in Star Fox, but I think rail missions should be the majority of the SF game.

[Falcory]

I think it needs to stay with on rails features, it wouldn't be Star Fox without it. Even Adventures had SOME on rails levels.

Of course lol. We're talking about it being purely on rails.

But I think a refined Assault is the way the series needs to go. I would like to see the ground levels put into a more advanced third person shooter, not so that is exceedingly difficult, but not like Assault's levels.

To be honest, this may seem out of place but I wish Assault had some Batman AA features. The way the camera is, letting you duck and crouch behind corners, I could totally see Starfox being pwnsome with these things I mentioned.

[DZComposer]

Ok, Falcory,  the point-counterpoint here has gotten ridiculous, and gone to arguing for the sake of arguing. I mean, we were arguing about development cycles and whether or not Mario is a platformer.

I don't feel like going on forever, as we're obviously at an impasse on that.

But, I do have to say something, and I am damn serious about this.

When you call a group "Too Complainy" you are implying "Stop Complaining," which is essentially saying STFU.  You may not have intended to say that, but that is what that implies.

Reread your statement here:

Now about the Genre shift....Starfox fans are just a little too complainy with this. Nuff said.

You're telling us to shut up. Deny it all you want, but that quote says it all. Especially with the smart-assed "Nuff said" tacked on the end of it.

This is what angers me. It's not that I disagree with your position, but rather that you have this attitude that the opinions of the older fans don't matter, and when we express them you come out at tell us that we complain too much. You don't tell people they complain too much unless you want them to stop complaining. Thus, you ARE telling older fans to STFU. It's insulting.

If you disagree with our position on SFAd, then fine. Debate us on the points. Don't say we complain too much, as that is a loaded phrase. If you don't want to be taken that way, then don't say it, and especially don't sign it with a smart-assed remark like "Nuff Said."

[Kursed]

such laguage it BURNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Falcory]

Ok, Falcory,  the point-counterpoint here has gotten ridiculous, and gone to arguing for the sake of arguing. I mean, we were arguing about development cycles and whether or not Mario is a platformer.

I honestly was trying to figure out how we got on that subject as well.

I don't feel like going on forever, as we're obviously at an impasse on that.

But, I do have to say something, and I am damn serious about this.

When you call a group "Too Complainy" you are implying "Stop Complaining," which is essentially saying STFU.  You may not have intended to say that, but that is what that implies.

Reread your statement here:

You're telling us to shut up. Deny it all you want, but that quote says it all. Especially with the smart-assed "Nuff said" tacked on the end of it.

This is what angers me. It's not that I disagree with your position, but rather that you have this attitude that the opinions of the older fans don't matter, and when we express them you come out at tell us that we complain too much. You don't tell people they complain too much unless you want them to stop complaining. Thus, you ARE telling older fans to STFU. It's insulting.

If you disagree with out position on SFAd, then fine. Debate us on the points. Don't say we complain too much, as that is a loaded phrase. If you don't want to be taken that way, then don't say it, and especially don't sign it with a smart-assed remark like "Nuff Said."

Excuse me???

Don't try to put words in my mouth and then said "Deny it all you want." You can't just claim that's a way of saying STFU because it isn't. Maybe that what you want it to be, but it isn't, and it damn well wasn't what I was trying to say. I have a right to an opinion and the right to STATE said opinion and if you want to take it like some sort of invitation to fight, go ahead. That's YOUR problem.

And btw I'm going to state something else.

You have a lot of nerve, TRYING to pretty much scold me for giving my own opinion. If you don't like it, you can ignore it, or try to defend it (Like you WERE doing) but you have no right to try to act like I'VE done something wrong.

I'm going to end this right here, because personally I don't feel like getting into a flame war, but just to let you know, if this is the type of pompus attitude you're going to get over discussions or debates I'd rather not speak to you ever again.

[SlyJedi]

FoXXX has got it  . Starfox Assault expanded. An good amount of both Arwing missions (that are like those in StarFox 64) and ground missions. And of course it would need a good storyline (with Command's hopelessly stupid writing completely discarded ).

[Guest FoXXX]

FoXXX has got it  . Starfox Assault expanded. An good amount of both Arwing missions (that are like those in StarFox 64) and ground missions. And of course it would need a good storyline (with Command's hopelessly stupid writing completely discarded ).

I sure hope that is what they do :)

[Mr. Krystal]

This isn't the 1970's anymore, how many rail-shooters do you see on the market today? Do you see everyone crying out for more rail-shooting games? No. We hated the invisible walls, I don't see why a game where your movement is limited and your path is predetermined would be any better.

... WHAT? Video games didn't EXIST in the 1970's. Secondly, the STAR FOX COMMUNITY and a large portion of N64 era gamers who played and loved Star Fox 64 are famous for asking for such a game. Thirdly, the very nature of its rarity indicates it as a perfect candidate for a new game (because a new fps or 3rd person shooter would be lost in the sea of other popular games of those genres).

[Guest FoXXX]

... WHAT? Video games didn't EXIST in the 1970's. Secondly, the STAR FOX COMMUNITY and a large portion of N64 era gamers who played and loved Star Fox 64 are famous for asking for such a game. Thirdly, the very nature of its rarity indicates it as a perfect candidate for a new game (because a new fps or 3rd person shooter would be lost in the sea of other popular games of those genres).

Atari existed in the 70's?

Also I agree with you, and I would like to see another SF with a lot of rail shooting :D

[Tiberius]

I think they're testing new ways of flight for Starfox. Doesn't the dogfight game in Wii Sprts Resort remind anyone of anything?

[Guest FoXXX]

I think they're testing new ways of flight for Starfox. Doesn't the dogfight game in Wii Sprts Resort remind anyone of anything?

I haven't played that before? That a rail too?

[Tiberius]

No. It's a free roam.

[Mr. Foxer]

... WHAT? Video games didn't EXIST in the 1970's. Secondly, the STAR FOX COMMUNITY and a large portion of N64 era gamers who played and loved Star Fox 64 are famous for asking for such a game. Thirdly, the very nature of its rarity indicates it as a perfect candidate for a new game (because a new fps or 3rd person shooter would be lost in the sea of other popular games of those genres).

Video games have been around since the 1950's. Also, how many times have you seen a game developer, and in this case, Q-Games or Namco, make a new game just because the fans asked for one?

SF probably would have been dead if it weren't for Dinosaur Planet.

[Guest FoXXX]

Video games have been around since the 1950's. Also, how many times have you seen a game developer, and in this case, Q-Games or Namco, make a new game just because the fans asked for one?

SF probably would have been dead if it weren't for Dinosaur Planet.

It probably would have been better off...

[Guest ReEfiniZ]

Pretty much just a discussion on what the tittle says. I notice they're a few people who state Starfox is a series that is meant  to be purely an Arcade shooter but they are others who state that bringing other genres into the games are a good choice. This topic is basically meant for those people to expressing their opinion here and get their thoughts out into the open.

Why not both? I mean I like the adventure strategic part of the game and the on rail shooters, but I mean like why not just have both in? So it contributes to those who were a big fans to the on rail missions and adventure peeps...

[Kursed]

It probably would have been better off...

so it would have been better off dead?

[DZComposer]

Excuse me???

Don't try to put words in my mouth and then said "Deny it all you want." You can't just claim that's a way of saying STFU because it isn't. Maybe that what you want it to be, but it isn't, and it damn well wasn't what I was trying to say. I have a right to an opinion and the right to STATE said opinion and if you want to take it like some sort of invitation to fight, go ahead. That's YOUR problem.

And btw I'm going to state something else.

You have a lot of nerve, TRYING to pretty much scold me for giving my own opinion. If you don't like it, you can ignore it, or try to defend it (Like you WERE doing) but you have no right to try to act like I'VE done something wrong.

I'm going to end this right here, because personally I don't feel like getting into a flame war, but just to let you know, if this is the type of pompus attitude you're going to get over discussions or debates I'd rather not speak to you ever again.

Look, I understand that it may not have been your intention, but as I said, telling a group that they complain too much IS in effect telling them to shut up, especially when you cap it with a smart-ass remark.

It may very well be that "too complainy" is not insulting in your eyes, but that is one thing about language: What may not sound insulting in your mind, may actually be a loaded phrase to others, especially those whom the comment is directed at. What we need to do is realize that not everything we say will be taken as we mean in. I will be the first to admit that I have trouble with this, too. Usually when someone points out to me that I offended them, I will apologize and try to re-word what I said. I have yet to get that from you on this. I will admit that I am not perfect on it, but when I am called out on it the vast majority of the time, I recognize that I was wrong.

Did I word some things poorly? Yes I did. Especially in that last post. I recognize that to you that sounded pompous, and I sincerely apologize for that word choice, and offense was not my intention.

I am not mad at you for your opinion, I am mad because you continue with this "too complainy" meme which is insulting to us older fans.

I respect the opinions of newer fans. Yes, I disagree with them and point out their flaws from time to time, but I do not pass judgment over them and I do understand that people that have those opinions are SF fans for the things that have come since SF64. I also understand that there will be this rift between these people and the older fans. I have accepted this. Had I not, I would have left in the Great Exodus myself.

Really, the only reason I went batshit over you was because you used a condescending phrase to describe older fans. As an older fan, I felt that I needed to stand up for the older fans not present. I now see that I overreacted a bit, and I apologize for that as well.

I'm not even going to ask for an apology from you. I will even cede victory in the argument to you if that is what you want. All I ask at this point is that you retire that "too complainy" phrase and please make your points in the future with less-loaded language.

[Falcory]

Look, I understand that it may not have been your intention, but as I said, telling a group that they complain too much IS in effect telling them to shut up, especially when you cap it with a smart-ass remark.

It may very well be that "too complainy" is not insulting in your eyes, but that is one thing about language: What may not sound insulting in your mind, may actually be a loaded phrase to others, especially those whom the comment is directed at. What we need to do is realize that not everything we say will be taken as we mean in. I will be the first to admit that I have trouble with this, too. Usually when someone points out to me that I offended them, I will apologize and try to re-word what I said. I have yet to get that from you on this. I will admit that I am not perfect on it, but when I am called out on it the vast majority of the time, I recognize that I was wrong.

Did I word some things poorly? Yes I did. Especially in that last post. I recognize that to you that sounded pompous, and I sincerely apologize for that word choice, and offense was not my intention.

I am not mad at you for your opinion, I am mad because you continue with this "too complainy" meme which is insulting to us older fans.

I respect the opinions of newer fans. Yes, I disagree with them and point out their flaws from time to time, but I do not pass judgment over them and I do understand that people that have those opinions are SF fans for the things that have come since SF64. I also understand that there will be this rift between these people and the older fans. I have accepted this. Had I not, I would have left in the Great Exodus myself.

Really, the only reason I went batshit over you was because you used a condescending phrase to describe older fans. As an older fan, I felt that I needed to stand up for the older fans not present. I now see that I overreacted a bit, and I apologize for that as well.

I'm not even going to ask for an apology from you. I will even cede victory in the argument to you if that is what you want. All I ask at this point is that you retire that "too complainy" phrase and please make your points in the future with less-loaded language.

I state "Too complainy" sometimes because that's the general thing I see Older SF fans do. Dosen't mean I look down on them. To be honest I'm going to be straight up with you: A lot of the Newer SF fans are complainy too.  Like what I said about Command, it honestly wasn't that bad of a game, but a lot of people act like it was purely crap. I don't look down on them either, but I do think they're being  "Too complainy". ( Even though Command did have some things that needed to be worked on. Same thing for Adventures) In the longrun though, I guess I DID word it wrong. I should have said that "The majority of older Starfox fans I see are too complainy" since of course I don't mean every single one of them. 

[Steve]

Alright, as the only staff member not involved in this discussion, I'll ask you all this, in the most neutral way possible. Chill out. Everyone's got a different opinion about the genre, alright?. And by logic, this means everyone is right or wrong unless it's not an opinion, and instead, it's a fact. This is a topic meant with the sole purpose of discussing something related about said genre, not to see who's right or not, most of you guys are overreacting about little stuff and data that simply has nothing to do with the subject. While locking this topic won't cause any good, it will at least calm the tiger. So don't make me go to that extend.

Countering points, arguing about who's right or who's wrong...sure, it's all rainbows and flowers until someone gets hurt, and that's when things go into a train wreck. :facepalm:

[Starfox mccloud15]

I think a refined Assault is the way the series needs to go. I would like to see the ground levels put into a more advanced third person shooter, not so that is exceedingly difficult, but not like Assault's levels.

^ this!

[Guest FoXXX]

Alright, as the only staff member not involved in this discussion, I'll ask you all this, in the most neutral way possible. Chill out. Everyone's got a different opinion about the genre, alright?. And by logic, this means everyone is right or wrong unless it's not an opinion, and instead, it's a fact. This is a topic meant with the sole purpose of discussing something related about said genre, not to see who's right or not, most of you guys are overreacting about little stuff and data that simply has nothing to do with the subject. While locking this topic won't cause any good, it will at least calm the tiger. So don't make me go to that extend.

Countering points, arguing about who's right or who's wrong...sure, it's all rainbows and flowers until someone gets hurt, and that's when things go into a train wreck.

We need a combination of rail and others!

[DZComposer]

I state "Too complainy" sometimes because that's the general thing I see Older SF fans do. Dosen't mean I look down on them. To be honest I'm going to be straight up with you: A lot of the Newer SF fans are complainy too.  Like what I said about Command, it honestly wasn't that bad of a game, but a lot of people act like it was purely crap. I don't look down on them either, but I do think they're being  "Too complainy". ( Even though Command did have some things that needed to be worked on. Same thing for Adventures) In the longrun though, I guess I DID word it wrong. I should have said that "The majority of older Starfox fans I see are too complainy" since of course I don't mean every single one of them. 

But please realize that the phrase is loaded. Dressing it up won't change that. It is technically an ad hominem argument, and saying it really adds nothing to the debate.

It's like saying that most people who support marijuana legalization are potheads, even after they make good arguments.

[Mr. Krystal]

Video games have been around since the 1950's. Also, how many times have you seen a game developer, and in this case, Q-Games or Namco, make a new game just because the fans asked for one?

SF probably would have been dead if it weren't for Dinosaur Planet.

The very first video game was invented in 1958 (Tennis for Two). It wasn't until the 70's when video games became popular and common enough to even be considered as a non-fad, that's true. However, 3D FLIGHT-based games didn't appear until the late 80's AT LEAST. And that's what we're talking about. We're not talking about a tennis game, we're talking about Star Fox.

Secondly, your argument about developers not making games based on fan suggestions is void. For one, I can apply the exact same argument to the other position and it is just as damaging. It's true, game developers won't make a game JUST due to popular demand, but they WILL change their direction in how a game is made if fans are adamant enough.

Thirdly, no, if Star Fox Adventures hadn't come out, there's little you can do to predict where Star Fox would have been. It probably wouldn't be dead. After all, the N64 went all the way through with NO Metroid games, yet when Gamecube came around, they got 2 console titles and 4 portable titles. Two more have sinse come to the Wii and one more is on the way. Star Fox wouldn't have died, IMO. In fact, the only reason they used Dinosaur Planet was because Nintendo's own Star Fox game they had been developing was lagging. If Star Fox Adventures hadn't provided that quick fix, Nintendo would have probably eventually worked out the kinks in their game and released it later. Who knows, the very same game could be in development right now for the Wii. One thing we know for sure is, we don't know what would have happened.