Solid argument that Cerinia, Sauria and Lylat are related. Opinions wanted!

[Kit-Karamak]

SF2, SF64, Assault... all three used tanks, which is far different than piloting something that flies. 

Only the SNES SF and Command keep you in the sky the whole time. 

So, right off the bat... the team does more than just piloting.  Fox, in SF64, operates a submarine (with unlimited torpedoes... that's kinda magical if you ask me. xD!) so he has to be trained in Naval sailoring techniques.  He drives a tank so he has to be trained in everything from how to re-tread a tank to how to wage land-based tank battle strategies.  Oh, and, as said before... if you unlock the awesomeness, you can run around on foot with a rocket launcher (seen in the multiplayer stages). 

Star Fox pw3nz n00b lizards in their skulls on every conceivable front.  They're a multi-theater trained organization of kickass dudes who later get a telepathic chick. 

OH and after thinking about that for a bit... it was probably Nintendo who asked Namco to make Krystal telepathic.  If you know your Star Fox history, this wasn't the first time Nintendo tried inserting the concept of telepathy into the franchise.  In the comics, Peppy had some sort of extra perceptive sensory, which you see twice.  The first time, in chapter 2, he's able to sense every single enemy, how many there are and where they are by putting his paws on his head, closing his eyes, and having wavy lines emanate from his skull. He does this from down in the hold. Pretty epic.  Later on, when Slippy is kidnapped and Fara's prototype is stolen, Peppy does it AGAIN.  He can tell that it "wasn't a toad flying that fighter" from the restaurant.  Keep in mind, the Arwing is up in the stratosphere. 

The game makers decided not to use the whole telepathy angle, but then it shows up later on with Krystal (for a single game, it's never actually mentioned anywhere in Adventures or Command). 

Needless to say, telepathy was destined to be put in fan fictions in some shape or form... Peppy is telepathic in many Fan Fictions I've read.  The really old ones, of course.  Like Julie Glassman (VixenDreams), Theodore Perotti hinted that he had a sixth sense but didn't go into detail... There were others

My older stories had Peppy using weak psychic abilities to a limited amount of sub-plot device stuffz. 

Now I'm just rambling.   BUT IT IS SO FUN!

[Falcory]

Wow. You really are in the mood tonight ain't cha? XDDD

[Kit-Karamak]

LOL yeah man.  I ate a box of Nerds candy. 

Y'know, I was thinking about something else...

Every game gives something new to Krystal and takes the other things away. 

In Adventures, she's the owner of a weapon staff.  She's an alien from a doomed race.  She talks to dinosaurs in their native tongue.  She has a ruby tiara.

In Assault, she's a telepath.  She loses the staff, she and Fox talk to Tricky in English, who replies in English. Translator or not, they don't mention the details. She loses the Ruby Tiara and trades it in for an emerald one. 

In Command, she keeps the emerald tiara, GAINS PMS, loses the telepathy and, in one ending, gains a BABY. 

On a side-related note, if she WAS still telepathic, SF:C would have never happened since she would have sensed that Fox just wanted what was best for her and went back to him without all the DRAMA.  She's a spoiled brat in some parts of the game... but ultimately gives Fox a kid in one ending.  She speaks Cornerian, doesn't sense things about enemies like she did in Assault and gained a major attitude and GOD KNOWS SHE NEVER WEARS THE SAME OUTFIT FROM GAME TO GAME... Just like a woman.  New shoes and lots of clothes shopping.  She isn't so alien after all... IN FACT, We NEVER hear the word CERINIA mentioned EVER AGAIN after the prologue text at the beginning of Adventures. 

Well... I think they may have mentioned it in BRAWL or ...something.  But yeah.  Stuff. 

Oh!  And with everyone thinking she may be some sort of royalty because of the Tiara... Wolf calls her "Princess" in SF:C.  Just food for thought.  So I guess that means she also GAINED a 'title' by COMMAND.  Then again, EVERYTHING is debatable and open to argument.  Like I said earlier... talking animals who have advanced technology?  Dang furries.  *impish grin*

[Zicka]

Well, uh... In SF64, they use a submarine and a tank.  If you unlock the things in the game, you can run around on foot with a rocket launcher in SF64 (in multiplayer mode).  If you were a fan of the Nintendo Power comic, the series begins with Fox, Peppy, Slippy and Falco using rocket launchers to attack cargo transports moving through the desert.

I already mentioned air, land, and sea. So pointing out that they drove in tanks and piloted submarines sort of *agrees* whith what I said. In the comic, they were riding little speederbikes, still a vehicle to me.

As Mercenaries, Pepper may have thought it was an easy gig to send Fox in since the team desperately needed money.  You can't send in scientists to try and fix the problem (which Corneria probably wanted to do in the first place) if there are distress beacons being sent out.  Pepper didn't realize just how IN DISTRESS the planet was, other than it was coming apart but being held together by (presumably) some sort of ancient alien technology (Just because they're 'spell stones' doesn't mean they're magic.  For hundreds of years, "MAGIC" was a term used to identify something that is otherwise explainable.  Just ask ANY magician... every trick is based on speed, stealth, perception and TECHNOLOGY).  So Fox goes in... is upset he can't use his blaster and starts looking around.

Thank you for explaining the weak plot devices Rare used to try an make us get into Adventures' story. You should also mention that it makes more sense for mercenaries to push icecubes and find roots to get to locations rather than air-dropping in and owning the place.

Spirits?  That's somewhere between religious query and the unknown realm.  Scientists spend way too much money each year on trying to see if there is a recordable way to document an energy source in an area deemed 'haunted'.  Not necessarily a PKE meter of Ghostbuster fame, but they want to see what causes the hair to stand up on the back of your neck.  THAT energy comes from your mind.  Whether or not it's perception of a person susceptible to ghostly contact  OR... if it's just inner paranoia... no one knows and no one cares.  After all, just because a place is spooky doesn't mean EVERY human being will feel or sense this weirdness.  Some people will walk into a haunted area and shrug.  They'll go, "We should tear this down and build a mini mall."  Who knows, maybe they're just not perceptive to the ghostly realm.  Or they're just not paranoid and don't believe in ghosts, right?

This argument *miiight* have some weight if Adventures truly explored spirituality, maybe went into the Dino's religion, had some sequences of Fox discovering the unknown forces of nature, and maybe better explained ESP and metaphysical concepts.

But no, all we saw were neon octopus jellyfish.

EVERYTHING in SF:Adventures can be explained if you put time an effort into using your imagination.  Krystal's staff is the easiest.  It shoots fire!  It shoots ice!  It launches you up to higher areas and it shields you from bad guys!  It shakes people to the ground by causing an enormous tremor.  It works in tandom with Fox's computerized wrist gauntlet thing, providing the 'battery power' to utilize Slippy's shape changing thing (Presumably holographic technology).  HECK, it even flips switches, pries rocks from the ground and turns bad guys into kibble from bashing them to death.  Sounds to me like this staff isn't magic at all.  It's an energy weapon if you ask me.  Shield generation? You see the way it charges before it launches you up to a ledge.  The tip opens from ovular to a trident-like tip when you shoot things from it.  It even runs low on batteries.  But hey!  It's officially GREEN because it runs off of plants.

What? I never even mentoned the staff. Why are you even talking about this?

Tricky breathing FIRE?  Yeah, dragons are one of the few mythical creatures that were said to breathe fire.  Tricky is a dinosaur.  So... now you've got to assume he's got an anatomical / biological liquid sack in his throat.  The contents are highly flammable and maybe he has naturally occurring metal deposits on his molars that, when clicked together, create a spark.  It can all be explained away with a little imagination.

Maybe in the universe of the original Dinosaur planet, but this crap dosen't belong in the Starfox universe.

The most magical thing about that game is Krystal's telepathy and that isn't even MENTIONED until Assault, because Namco was looking at Star Trek the Next Gen and thought, "Hey!  She can fit the role of Diana Troy while the Aparoids can fill the role of the Borg! YAY!"

Yes, because Namco realised how useless telepathy is and how it only serves at a plot device.

oops...

In fact, I don't recall the word "Magic" actually being used IN THE GAME to describe anything seen within.  Magical maybe.  But that's a broad adjective.  I think it's referred to as a "power up" or "ability" but I forget and can't be sure.

Peppy talks about 'magical energy' several times. Selective hearing lol

I suppose the reason I came up with this post in the first place is to ask for opinions in regards to EXPLAINING everything on Sauria AS TECHNOLOGY... then asking people if it sounds too farfetched.  That way I can use those explanations for my fan fiction because I like giving things a hint of reality in the world about which I write. 

All fanfiction-esque CONJECTURE with no real evidence to support these claims. I love it when fanfiction writers start to assume that the world they created has just as much weight as what the game says and shows.

[Falcory]

I already mentioned air, land, and sea. So pointing out that they drove in tanks and piloted submarines sort of *agrees* whith what I said. In the comic, they were riding little speederbikes, still a vehicle to me.

He also mentioned the "On foot" mode in 64. Which showed they obviously weren't strangers to Ground Combat. Also in the SNES comic, the Starfox team fight some bad guys on ground a few times, and Falco even knocks Fox out about two times, lol...

Thank you for explaining the weak plot devices Rare used to try an make us get into Adventures' story. You should also mention that it makes more sense for mercenaries to push icecubes and find roots to get to locations rather than air-dropping in and owning the place.

First off you're missing the point. MERCS DO NOT ALWAY GO INTO PLACES AND BLOW STUFF UP, AND CAPTURE PLACES BASED ON PURE FORCE.

Now since you should have noticed the large writing above lemme clarify the next one.

The Starfox team was low on funds. It obviously shown, that the Arwing was in bad shape so having Fox air-drop to every location would probably be a bad idea. Secondly, Fox didn't bring any kickass weapons onto the planet. He was supposed to be saving the dinosaurs on the planet and bringing heavy artilery might have turned the place into a warzone and killed inocents. Not only that, who's to say they even had any good weapons? The Team was low on funds remember? Team need money to buy and refurbish GOOD strong weapons! 

This argument *miiight* have some weight if Adventures truly explored spirituality, maybe went into the Dino's religion, had some sequences of Fox discovering the unknown forces of nature, and maybe better explained ESP and metaphysical concepts. But no, all we saw were neon octopus jellyfish.

In honesty, I don't really think of them as spirits. They're more like life forms, which is what a spirit would be anyways.

What? I never even mentoned the staff. Why are you even talking about this?

Because you brought up Magic. That's why.

Maybe in the universe of the original Dinosaur planet, but this crap dosen't belong in the Starfox universe.

And who are you to make that judement? Apparently it does since it's in Adventures.

Yes, because Namco realised how useless telepathy is and how it only serves at a plot device.

oops...

Telepathy isn't useless. A strong enough telepath could kill you in an instant, without even touching you.

Peppy talks about 'magical energy' several times. Selective hearing lol

He says it once, by my count.

[Kit-Karamak]

HAHA Falcory, you're the man.  Also, you WOULD bring up that Falco knocked Fox's block off in the hanger. hehe. 

Quote he: "Peppy talks about 'magical energy' several times. Selective hearing lol"

To which you said, "He says it once, by my count." 

LOL I actually said, NO ONE refers to anything as "MAGIC."  But they DO call things MAGICAL, which is a different adjective all together.  There are no "MAGIC POINTS" and no one casts "MAGIC" or takes an enemy down with "MAGIC" or wields "MAGIC" to stop any "MAGIC" enemies. 

Magical, on the other hand, is an adjective to describe something of unique, interesting or unexplainable.  For example, my ADHD ten year old son, Richie, went on Ritalin in the 2nd grade.  At the time he started 2nd grade, he had a 1st grade reading level and couldn't focus or sit still.  We tried dieting and everything else... nothing worked.  WHen he went on Ritalin, half way through the year, he experienced a MAGICAL Transformation, and ended the 2nd grade year reading at a 3rd grade level and, now, in 4th grade is reading at a 6th grade level.  He's now two reading two levels above his grade because there's something MAGICAL about a pill that compensates for a chemical imbalance and he's one of the lucky attention def kids for whom Novartis' product MAGICALLY works.  But it's not magic. 

And before ANYONE gets on a high horse about Ritalin / Concerta / Adderall / Stratera / etc...  I've been on Ritalin since 6 years old.  I stopped for two years when I went into the Navy in 1998.  I chose to resume it in 2000 and, no, I do not have an addiction for it.  Sometimes I just don't take it on the weekends 'cause I don't feel like I would need it for anything.  I don't have withdraws and I'm 29 now  

So don't get started on that, I was bringing it up as an example of using "magical", lol. 

BACK ON TOPIC!

Yes, SPEEDERBIKES... that's a vehicle... but they still had to do things like shoot a rocket launcher on their shoulder.  That's akin to fighting horseback.  It takes even more skill, because you don't have a targeting computer to fight for you.  It's not a push of a button.  You're without shields or armor plating. 

While I DO think that Rare should have added at LEAST one scene in the middle of the game where you had to fight a boss with a LandMaster tank (that would have been amazing!) the fact remains that Nintendo has mentioned Sauria in some way, shape or form in both Assault AND Command.  Characters from Adventures have stayed with the franchise.  FACE IT, buddy!  It's canon in the Star Fox universe now.  It might be CRAP to throw it into the MERCENARIES gaming franchise (like playground of destruction and the other one), but in a universe where animals walk, talk and chew bubble gum... it's not terribly far feched! 

Don't forget... there are plenty of fantasy elements that are from old STar Fox games... the 2 headed fire-breathing MONARCH DODORIA!  I'm too lazy to google the spelling for that.   

ENORMOUS GIANT BUMBLE BEES from that same board!  It's SAFE TO SAY that the team might have flown over Sauria, mislabeled as Fortuna, in the SNES version of SF, if you really want.  I wouldn't but there's no argument against it, except that Corneria had very limited contact with Sauria until after Fox's adventure (bad pun) and then, during Assault, when you're on the Corneria stage, you start seeing holo-sign advertisements for Saurian colonies to visit for vacation.

Look, BOTH of you have GREAT comebacks and I REALLY appreciate Falcory's rebuttal because it kinda' defends what I was saying.  But I also see Zicka's side and I respect it greatly. 

I'm GLAD I labeled this topic, "argument that..."  and "Opinions wanted" because nothing says fun like a good debate. 

The thing I want you to realize, though, Zicka, is that I'm doing my best to work with the storyline that Nintendo handed us.  Nintendo has given us fire-breathing characters before Tricky.  They've given us large scale reptiles and insects and enormous fantasy enemies in the past, not counting Bio Weapons, since those creatures were sited as indigenous to that world as of that game.  Nintendo gave us telepathy before Krystal only to retcoon it until a better situation could be utilized to bring it back.  In the end... it's all been done before in this series. 

I agree that Nintendo shouldn't have bought Rare's latest game, taken Sabre out, changed the blue girl from a cat to a vixen then inserted StarFoxy goodness.  Not the way they did.  But it happened, it's canon now, and as a fan... I choose to work with it and do my best to honor it with my stories to some degree. 

In the end... I started this thread to try and get opinions on how best to do that without writing that there's a "fantasy magic world held together with HOKUS POKUS!"

Peppy and the Adventures guide use the word MAGICAL, which is far different than calling these devices "MAGIC".  No one casts MAGIC MISSLE... they're merely suggesting the staff shoots magic<i>al</i> energy rounds at best.      But those rounds are still energy based and explainable, n'est-ce pas? 

Q: How many ADD kids does it take to screw in a light bulb?

A: HEY WANNA GO RIDE BIKES!! :D

[Falcory]

Actually I was defending you. I agree with with the majority of things you said in this thread actually.

The Magic argument is the same one I used actually for the explanantion of the Staff and the "Magic force" on DP. 

[Kit-Karamak]

haha, i really appreciate it.

Yeah, but if you ask me... "Magic force" isn't too terribly far from, "Magical".  And I thought it WAS "Magical Force" anyhow.  Besides, modern science has turned the term "magic" into a word that's now synonymous with "trick act" and "performance stunt".  PICK A CARD... ANY CARD... isn't magic, it's a science and now... people just call it "the card trick".  So yeah, I think you and I are on the same page. 

But I also respect Zicka's views.  I bet Fox wishes he could have pulled the DP job that way.  In fact, he was kinda miffed that he couldn't even bring his blaster.  From what I've heard, he actually USED a blaster in the beta video footage of the game before it was released... but Rare decided to give him the staff full time later on in development.  Truth be told, Sabre wasn't going to have the staff very much if at all.  I've yet to see pictures of the game when it was on its N64 engine, where Sabre is holding that staff.  But I digress...

Maybe, just for fun, I should put in a "magic" subplot device in one of my stories, just to see if anyone gets annoyed.  xD 

I should make Wolf O'Donnell's bionic eyepatch "magic" and write that he found a piece of magic quartz on Sauria and had it crafted into his latest eyepatch... LMAO.  Okay I probably won't do that.  It would be funny as hell though.  He'd probably feel like he's on an acid trip, just looking through it.  Or better yet, maybe it can slowly but surely grow him a new eyeball... haha.  Yeah... I'm feeling goofy again tonight.  ;;;

Ahem.  I shall now hush and return to working on the new chapter for Reflections of Regret.  Urf...