Solid argument that Cerinia, Sauria and Lylat are related. Opinions wanted!

[Tiberius]

Venom pretty much is Mars if you look at it. They screwed it up by making an acidic sea that didnt exist until Command tho, but we throw that out of the picture.

Cerinia, in my mind, was a planet that suffered an invaision disaster, or a natural disaster. Most likely an invaision disaster. Its like the Lost City of Atlantis in a way. As for Venom, it was Andross that messed it up. "He turned this once thriving planet into a wasteland of near extinction." That wasnt Corneria. It was Venom. As for Sauria... Sauria is kind of off on its own. It really was never supposed to be there until they made the mistake of making it in Star Fox: Adventures. They should've made it Fortuna (which is really supposed to be called Fichina, but I like calling the ice planet Fichina) instead.

[GammaRay256]

Venom pretty much is Mars if you look at it. They screwed it up by making an acidic sea that didnt exist until Command tho, but we throw that out of the picture.

Cerinia, in my mind, was a planet that suffered an invaision disaster, or a natural disaster. Most likely an invaision disaster. Its like the Lost City of Atlantis in a way. As for Venom, it was Andross that messed it up. "He turned this once thriving planet into a wasteland of near extinction." That wasnt Corneria. It was Venom. As for Sauria... Sauria is kind of off on its own. It really was never supposed to be there until they made the mistake of making it in Star Fox: Adventures. They should've made it Fortuna (which is really supposed to be called Fichina, but I like calling the ice planet Fichina) instead.

Yeah...

The series is badly plagued by inconsistencies as a result of having so many different developers, naming errors, and other problems.

I know Star Fox 64 has the naming error with Fortuna/Fichina, but I still consider it to be the most canon of all the games.  Star Fox Adventures would be second (even if it was never supposed to happen, it's where we got Krystal).  I don't consider Command canon unless we're looking decades into the future - I don't consider the 'facts'  in Command (like the Acid Sea on Venom) to be canon (whether or not it is, we won't know until the next game).  I also don't consider the older games (Star Fox I and II) to be canon either (though, they could be a separate canon along with Star Fox Command).  And Assault really didn't reveal much new information, it's certainly canon, but it doesn't help too much in filling in the gaps.  So, pretty much everything I say is based off of Star Fox 64.

I was just coming up with a creative way to explain some of the missing areas.  I hope the next game fills some of it in for us.

[Guest FoXXX]

Back on the original subject, has anyone ever considered Venom to have a connection with Sauria and Cerinia?  We know that Venom (despite the modern name that describes its state) had 'ancient' inhabitants long before Andross polluted it.  Based on the fact of having ancient inhabitants, I think Sauria, Cerinia, and Venom all had similar beginnings, if not completely connected.

We can see in SF64 the ancient temples of Venom (I believe Venom's surface is mostly rock formations now, if I remember right, that's what it looked like in Super Smash Bros. Melee), so it's a planet that's seen better days (it might not be too dissimilar from Mars in our own solar system). 

Andross obviously engineered ancient stone structures into machines, but he probably didn't invent the architecture himself.  In addition, according the the SF64 guidebook, Venom has a lot of underground tunnels that are difficult to map because they are under rock - Andross' lair could have been constructed out of an existing tunnel, also, the tunnels that enemies fly out of were probably already there too before Andross added his machinery to them.

What if the Krazoa's origin planet is Venom?  We know that Venom is the 'first planet of the Lylat System', if not, it's certainly one of the oldest (like I said, it's just a remnant of a planet).  The stone structures on Venom are not all that dissimilar from the Krazoa Palace.

If Cerinia was an ancient, yet technologically advanced planet, it would make sense that Andross would try to take it over.  As to why it was destroyed: Sauria was falling apart because of the misplacement of the Spell Stones, could the same thing have happened to Cerinia?  The Krazoa built the Spell Stones, and are said to "give life" to the planet.  Perhaps, if they left Cerinia, its 'Spell Stones' quit working (due to the absence of the Krazoa, possibly because they noticed Andross' interference), and the planet 'died' (like Venom).  Maybe the reason Venom is dead is because it lost its source of life a long long time ago (perhaps, that source might have even been the Krazoa themselves).

Andross might have made a mistake on Cerinia, perhaps he attempted sucked the life out of the planet, was 'caught' and stopped, but still destroyed the planet (like what he almost did to Sauria).  So, in his attempt to steal the life from the Krazoa, he engineered a scheme for Sauria that involved masking his operations with General Scales.  In result, he successfully retrieved the Krazoa Spirits and revived himself - Star Fox still beat him though

Krystal might have already seen Andross before.  When he knocked her into the energy beam in Krazoa Palace, she screamed "It's You!", as if she had seen him before... possibly on her home planet?  At the end of the game, she talks back to him like she's tried to stop him before.  Maybe Andross needed to capture Krystal in order to channel the Krazoa's energy because she was from Cerinia (which, I'm hypothesizing might have been a very similar planet).

Perhaps, Sauria is the last surviving planet of its type (a series of "ancient" planets and races).

Well, it all makes sense in my mind I kind of used this theory in the advanced chapters of my Fan Fiction.  I have yet to publish those chapters (I may never publish them), but this theory seems to agree with the canon evidence we have (though, we have so little, just about anything could have happened).

What do you think?  Could Sauria, Cerinia, and Venom all be connected by an ancient race?

Makes sense, I'm pretty sure Andross is the one responsible for everything, Cerinia being destroyed + Sauria, Venom.

[Kursed]

I think Andross had to do with whatever happened to Cerinia.

[Guest FoXXX]

I think Andross had to do with whatever happened to Cerinia.

Yeah, even though it's not much evidence that Andross is indeed responsible, just because Krystal recognized him, it just makes sense.

[Tiberius]

Yeah...

The series is badly plagued by inconsistencies as a result of having so many different developers, naming errors, and other problems.

I know Star Fox 64 has the naming error with Fortuna/Fichina, but I still consider it to be the most canon of all the games.  Star Fox Adventures would be second (even if it was never supposed to happen, it's where we got Krystal).  I don't consider Command canon unless we're looking decades into the future - I don't consider the 'facts'  in Command (like the Acid Sea on Venom) to be canon (whether or not it is, we won't know until the next game).  I also don't consider the older games (Star Fox I and II) to be canon either (though, they could be a separate canon along with Star Fox Command).  And Assault really didn't reveal much new information, it's certainly canon, but it doesn't help too much in filling in the gaps.  So, pretty much everything I say is based off of Star Fox 64.

I was just coming up with a creative way to explain some of the missing areas.  I hope the next game fills some of it in for us.

You're  forgetting Assualt. That one remains the most consistent with previous games, and gives reasons for the different departures. Although the uniforms are different, that comes hand in hand with the guns and infantry fighting.

As for Andross and Cerinia, you're definantly right there.

[GammaRay256]

You're  forgetting Assualt. That one remains the most consistent with previous games, and gives reasons for the different departures. Although the uniforms are different, that comes hand in hand with the guns and infantry fighting.

As for Andross and Cerinia, you're definantly right there.

But I didn't forget Assault:

And Assault really didn't reveal much new information, it's certainly canon, but it doesn't help too much in filling in the gaps.

I agree with you though, it's definitely the most consistent.  But, since it doesn't include Andross, it is one of the most independent storylines.  It's completely compatible, but it doesn't answer many unanswered questions about Krystal or Cerinia.

[Kit-Karamak]

Back on the original subject, has anyone ever considered Venom to have a connection with Sauria and Cerinia?  We know that Venom (despite the modern name that describes its state) had 'ancient' inhabitants long before Andross polluted it.  Based on the fact of having ancient inhabitants, I think Sauria, Cerinia, and Venom all had similar beginnings, if not completely connected.

We can see in SF64 the ancient temples of Venom (I believe Venom's surface is mostly rock formations now, if I remember right, that's what it looked like in Super Smash Bros. Melee), so it's a planet that's seen better days (it might not be too dissimilar from Mars in our own solar system). 

Andross might have made a mistake on Cerinia, perhaps he attempted sucked the life out of the planet, was 'caught' and stopped, but still destroyed the planet (like what he almost did to Sauria).  So, in his attempt to steal the life from the Krazoa, he engineered a scheme for Sauria that involved masking his operations with General Scales.  In result, he successfully retrieved the Krazoa Spirits and revived himself - Star Fox still beat him though

What do you think?  Could Sauria, Cerinia, and Venom all be connected by an ancient race?

Fantastic!  Well Andross was pretty much a control freak in his youth and he was pretty much devoted to science in his old age, but in both situations there was a similar theme... he had little regard for others and how his experiments (bio weapons, self restoration process, etc) hurt others. 

In my story, the current leader of Venom has gone to Sauria to seek out the surviving Sharpclaw tribe.  Now, in Assault it's assumed this tribe was wiped out by the Aparoids but in my story only the very young were able to survive because anyone of approximate crawling age would not have fought.  Dinosaurs don't need much more than instincts to survive on their own on Sauria because they don't eat one another the way Dinosaurs did on... say... Earth. 

Needless to say when those Sharpclaw survivors matured, the leader of Venom (Dash Bowman) has enlisted them to "JOIN THEIR VENOM COUSINS" and transports the lot of'em off of Sauria to join his army and to become educated, etc.  SO YES, I agree... the lizards of both planets are most likely related. 

As a writer, I enjoy taking the many inconsistencies and writing something that I feel is clever in order to patch the holes.  One of the Earthwalker solders at the beginning of SF:Adventures says the Krazoa left the palace when they became extinct "a million years ago".  Most of the temples on Sauria are occupied by dinosaurs that keep the place up... the earthwalkers in the walled city, the cloudrunners in their fortress, etc.  But we see what kind of technology the indigenous species can provide... The LIghtfoot village isn't anything special.  Wooden huts with hay and straw on the rooftops.

So there's two possibilities - there was another race that built some of this stuff only a few thousand years ago... or the Krazoa made stuff that REALLY REALLY REALLY stood the test of time (oxydation, erosion, tectonic shaking, landslides, humidity - you name it!)...

In my story, the Krazoa were the 'scholar' species that lived alongside of a reptillian species of warriors.  They lived synonymously under one banner.  When the Krazoa became extincts, some of them left the planet first to colonize other worlds.  They took many of the advanced lizards and left them on Venom.  The ones remaining on Sauria became extinct and the surviving lizards de-volved , unable to adapt without relying on their scholar simbiant allies.  But they were still related to smart reptiles that had enough brain power to retain speech patterns, political circles and other such things. 

Andross may have turned Venom from a thriving planet into a wasteland, but who is to say HOW it thrived?  Was it industrial?  Was it full of lush beautiful plantlife?

Ben Itoh's Nintendo Power comic suggested that when Andross arrived, the lizards were pretty much living in a dystopian world surrounded by whatever was left of a previously advanced civilization.  Maybe there were parts of the planet where it was lush with jungle, there were urban areas and there were industrial sections.  Maybe "thriving planet" meant there was an economy but Andross crashed their global market.  It's tough to be sure. 

NEEDLESS TO SAY! IN SF:C it's suggested that Andross, in his advanced age prior to death, made science his life.  He even invented a way to return Venom to the way he apparently found it... nice and pretty. 

Now, there HAD to be water on Venom.  It couldn't be COMPLETELY like Mars... Mars has no water or atmosphere, so there could be no lizards on it beforehand if it was like Mars.  It had to have an atmosphere for them to live, and there had to be water for there to be life.  So we assume the oceans became acidic from pollution because Andross turned it into an industrial wasteland.  Factories to build his fleet, right?  All the trees were cut down to provide resources that went into mining the planet to death (and the semi-hollow Macbeth) of metal to make fighters and battleships, etc. 

So whatever water they had after Andross lost the big war... it was probably coming from Water treatment plants or something.  Because there was still live on Venom and... to have life you need water sources. 

So!  Venom in SF:C ends the same way at the end of the game... the Anglars are beaten because Andross' legacy device makes the planet semi-terra-formed by restoring everything... that way the waters are clean enough not to corrode the hulls of the fighters used to end that war. 

SO no matter how you look at it... in the next SF game, Venom is going to rival Corneria in 'beauty'.  The question is... will Dash Bowman rape the planet like his grandfather did?  Will the indigenous species be a threat or will Star Fox have to help PROTECT Venom in the future games from another outside threat (outside in the way of another non-Lylat alien, like the Aparoids were)?  Only time will tell. 

There is only ONE CERTAIN THING we can COUNT ON in the future Star Fox title!  There will be a flying fox in space... The main characters haven't died in any of the endings so... expect them in the game... and it will come out eventually because it's a multi-million cart-selling franchise title.  Every release has gone more than 1 time platinum.  The original was diamond status (10 million sales). I'm not sure if SF64 sold over 10 million copies but I wouldn't be surprised if you count re-sell via places like Game Stop.  So more than ten million Americans alone have owned Star Fox games at one point of time or another.  Why?  Because we love it so. <3

ANYhow back to the topic of this thread, I'm glad I'm not the only one who really buys into the theory of Sauria, Venom and Cerinian being somehow related. 

[GammaRay256]

Let's not forget that the Star Fox 64 prologue says "He turned this once thriving system into a wasteland of near extinction."  It doesn't exactly say he was the one who ruined Venom - "General Pepper of the Cornerian army was successful in exiling this maniacal scientist to the barren, deserted planet Venom."  So, it must have been barren before Andross arrived.

In my story, Dash is the new leader of Venom (as it says in one of the Command endings), and he has restored the planet, made it inhabitable, and it now rivals Corneria in science and technology.  Corneria quickly proceeds to attack him first, but only because the Cornerian 'government' doesn't want any competition - Fox questions their motives, as he doesn't see anything wrong with Dash restoring the barren planet - Dash isn't even the one creating the war, it's Corneria.  But, that's just the background plot of the story - in the advanced chapters (20+), I bring in a few forgotten characters and ultimately have Fox meet Kursed at Krazoa Palace (where she apparently knows more than usual about the whole conflict with Corneria and Venom and how it relates to the destruction of Cerinia, as if it were a prophecy or something).  I won't reveal the ending, but it is based on the fact of Fox having to look into the past (both recent, and ancient) in order to conquer the present conflict.

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5143873/1/Final_Conflict

This has inspired me to start writing Final Conflict again, I'll pull out my old drafts out of the archives and see if I can get the next chapter finalized.  Eh, I might not get around to it - I kind of got discouraged from writing fiction based on copyrighted material, I kind of feel it won't have any useful future, but, I might still write it anyway.

As far as copyrights are concerned, does anyone know if Nintendo has an infamous history in this area?  Are they generally "cool" with fan works as long as they're not for profit?

[Kit-Karamak]

Let's not forget that the Star Fox 64 prologue says "He turned this once thriving system into a wasteland of near extinction."  It doesn't exactly say he was the one who ruined Venom - "General Pepper of the Cornerian army was successful in exiling this maniacal scientist to the barren, deserted planet Venom."  So, it must have been barren before Andross arrived.

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5143873/1/Final_Conflict

This has inspired me to start writing Final Conflict again...

As far as copyrights are concerned, does anyone know if Nintendo has an infamous history in this area?  Are they generally "cool" with fan works as long as they're not for profit?

GREAT!!! I love when a writer is inspired to keep writing - I, too, hate when I can't finish a story.  I use Fan Fiction the way a garage band uses cover songs... I do it in a different key with a more extravagant solo and will use the feedback of listeners towards writing my own original future masterpiece.

The concept for your story sounds really good - your chapters are fairly short on the link you showed, but they flow nicely. 

And you're right! Thanks for looking so I wouldn't have to change the wires on the back of my TV for the n64, lol.  You're right on the money - I found it on youtube.  I'm grateful that you reminded me the proper wording for that, because that meshes well into what I've already written in mine. ;

Out of curiosity, why call it the Final Conflict?  I've learned if you write something good, people will ALWAYS want a sequel. xDDDD

[GammaRay256]

GREAT!!! I love when a writer is inspired to keep writing - I, too, hate when I can't finish a story.  I use Fan Fiction the way a garage band uses cover songs... I do it in a different key with a more extravagant solo and will use the feedback of listeners towards writing my own original future masterpiece.

That's a great idea.  I too am planning a future masterpiece of my own, I simply do not have the 'framework' (characters, places) built yet.  That's why it's fun to write Fan Fiction, the groundwork is already there, we all know the characters and places so it's easy to adapt a plot to them - there's no guessing as to how a character will react to a situation since they are already well defined. 

It's kind of like writing software, you can use a pre-built system and add to it for your own tasks, or, you can write your own framework.  The latter takes more work, but will be more original in the end.  The difference with software is that you don't want to be reinventing the wheel all the time to get the job done - writing is a little more creative and having something completely fresh and original is a good thing if the foundation is well defined. 

For learning and experimenting with plot lines, events, character reactions, and other storyline details, Fan Fiction is great because you don't have to worry about character development and location.

Out of curiosity, why call it the Final Conflict?  I've learned if you write something good, people will ALWAYS want a sequel. xDDDD

Well, here's the story behind that.  Like most, I was pretty disappointed with Command because there was no definite ending.  However, I did like certain features from various endings, so I decided that I would write a Star Fox fiction to answer the question of "what actually happens after Assault".  I did ignore the main part of Command largely, but I used multiple parts from the various endings to craft my own story.

It is called Final Conflict because it will eventually lead to a major shift of power in the Lylat System.  The ending I'm planning is kind of a "one true ending" scenario.  It will end with something similar to the Command ending where Fox meets Krystal on Sauria, but it won't be depressing like almost all of the Command endings.  Yes, the  Star Fox team will probably disband at some point, but it will be under good circumstances (eg. there's no more evil left to fight). 

I'm not completely certain about the details, but I called it "Final Conflict" because I wanted to make a "one true ending".

---

Actually, I'm hoping that after reading it, instead of wanting a sequel, people will want a prequel.  My idea is: "What actually happened to James McCloud?".  We're told in Star Fox 64 that he was "captured" by Andross.  I know Andross says "You will die just like your father," but, I still think there's some possibility that he could still be alive.  Andross could just be saying that to scare Fox, he is the only one who knows what really happened to James.

[Kit-Karamak]

True but Pigma and Wolf both SEEM to know what happened to James too, when they claim he's dead (You'll be seeing your dad soon, Fox;  Daddy screamed REAL GOOD before he DIED.)  Needless to say, everyone loves the James Theory.

I address almost everything in my stories, laced throughout the six combined sequels and prequels.

James actually escapes and takes Wolf's eye.  Wolf has insane respect for James but thinks that Fox isn't "as good as James" so he's always treated Fox the way he does just because of that.  James got away, even though he was dying from internal bleeding.  he got as far as the asteroid belt when a prototype gravity bomb placed on his fighter went off.  But since, in F-zero, it claims James is the first to use gravity defusing gear on his Little Wyvern, his fighter disappears, leaving a tear in spacetime.  That becomes the wormhole you can access in SF for SNES and SF64.  Is james dead?  Is James in a parallel universe?  Is James lying low, retired and only protecting his son on rare occasions, like helping him to escape at the end of SF64?  Who knows. 

I take MOST of the endings from SF:C and COMBINE them.

At first, the team wins then Krystal stays with Fox for a WHILE. They have a home coming party, Peppy and Lucy talk about Vivian, Krystal and Fox agree to rekindle things, Amanda joins the team, Dash leaves for Venom...yay. But then Krystal leaves and goes back to Panther after about two or three months.  But Fox THINKS she's left him for good and he's heart broken. In actuality, she was going back to Panther to provide CLOSURE then goes out to do some soul searching.  She goes to Sauria.  Fox actually shows and they agree to retire together ...but not YET. 

Eventually they do have a son. 

In my story, a second GreatFox is built modeled after the original one.  They have two, the carrier and the cruiser... and the two ships lock together to make the "GreatFox Flying Fortress."  Years pass and Marcus is about 16, home for summer vacation from the academy.  There is an attack on the GreatFox and the ships separate.  In a matter of minutes, the cruiser is inundated with attacks and Fox orders the core to be jettisoned before it can explode.  Marcus wants to fight.  He's angry when his parents put him into an escape pod with Peppy instead. 

He watches while they launch their fighters.  What APPEARS to be Andross, making a final last stand, launches a gravity bomb that swallows the carrier section and the entire recently-regrouped StarFox team.  Falco, Slippy and Amanda, Lucy Hare, Fox and Krystal... they all disappear.  He then watches through the other porthole as the cruiser section of GreatFox turns into a fireball over nearby Sauria and disappears. 

Six years later, he and the son of Wolf O'Donnell become best friends. Peppy has since died of old age so Marcus is living with Bill Grey, who he'd met at Peppy's funeral.  Marcus has a thing where he clings to things that remind him of his parents.  He and Wolf's son take a job on Sauria, hunting an alleged serial killer.  It turns out to be Andrew Oikonny.  They find the GreatFox cruiser sitting on the jelly-like ground of Moon Mountain Pass because ROB64 apparently piloted it into a safe landing on its belly.  He's long-since powered down, unable to recharge without the ship's energy core.  Auxillary Fusion power is offline.  They find all the old Star Fox gear (blasters, etc) and his mother's staff locked in his parent's room.  About 20 chapters in, the original Star Fox team finds their way back to their original universe and jumps into the story.  About 10 chapters later, O'Donnell's kid enlists in the academy and the two friends part for a while.  Marcus begins flying with the daughter of Lucy and the son of Slippy.  Falco joins them.  Thus the team we see of Marcus in SF:C. 

BUT! Just as easily as the team was sent to another universe from the gravity bomb, that same technology was used by Corneria against an evil version of Krystal from an alternative dimension.  Before Marcus learns his family is alive and well, and while he's still angry and emotional because he still thinks they're dead... he comes up against the most evil version of Kursed possible.  Because he's telepathic, he's the only one that can fight her, as she would anticipate the moves of any other opponent.  He manages to kill her on accident.  Panther finds out about it and thinks he's killed the real Krystal and decides he wants to assassinate Marcus.  Marcus is so emotionally distraught that he killed his mother's doppelganger, Panther refuses to go through with the assassination because Marcus wouldn't make a good enough target, since he's not fighting back. 

Enter old Star Fox.  They help Marcus fight off Dash who, at first, was thought to be an ally for a few chapters.  In the sequel, Dash uses his grandfather's research on genetic engineering from the ole bioweapon days... and he restores Kursed by rebuilding most of her brain using plastic... think ... evil Data from Star Trek, if you like. But it's still her body and her original frontal lobe.  She's a pretty twisted chick, now.  She was bad before... now she's... yikes. 

But then a subplot device is introduced.  Krystal and Kursed both lose a great deal of their memories.  Kursed loses less because she's further away in Lylat... Kursed forgets everything that happens after she'd left Lylat and became a bounty hunter.  Everything that made her EXTRA twisted... that's all gone.  But she's been semi-programmed by Dash so she is still a bit more evil than the average Kursed character.  Slowly but surely, througout the story, she regains fragments of her memories and ultimately decides to terra-form Corneria to create a new colony for the future of New Cerinia using the DNA of Marcus McCloud and her own DNA in order to make male and female Cerinians.  She wants to restart the race at the expense of every innocent bystander on Corneria.  EEEEvil. 

Meanwhile, Krystal had lost all her memories back to before Cerinia was destroyed.  Her last memory was being a teenager and she awakens to find out that she's 48, married with a kid and lost a great deal of her abilities.  She has to re-learn them.  She has to rediscover herself and, slowly but surely, regains only her most POSITIVE memories.  Her marriage, becoming a mother, saving Corneria twice, her romantic nights as Fox's wife... only the MOST POSITIVE of memories...

So... now she's as pure of heart as she was the day she took the first Krazoa Test.  This means she's the only person properly pitted to go up against the Evil Kursed character.  Ying and Yang.  Of course, it'll take Krystal AND her son to combat Kursed, who is rediculously advanced with her telepathy.  She can force pain into a target's mind, make the victim think they're seeing their entrails ripped out and feel pain in their gut... she has light control over natural telekinesis abilities so she could disarm someone of their blaster or deflect an energy round from across the room if given enough time to see it coming at her.  stuff like that. 

Wshew... that was long winded. >_> 

Anyhow, in the current updates of Reflections of Marcus McCloud, I needed to consult with people so I wrote this thread.  Kursed finds a machine that the Krazoans used to terra-form planets around Lylat a million years ago.  Andross did some research on this 'theoretical device' and was able to make the legacy device in SF:C that gets used to transform and repair Venom without wiping out the current population... but Kursed finds out the device is real... and that it was designed to work the way one would reformat their hard drive... it wipes out everything, makes it fresh and ready to support new files (or in this case, new life). 

And she wants to find it and use it to wipe out Corneria and Katina in order to start a new colony for Cerinia, using bio-engineering research left by the late Andross... so that she can restart her race... and become the mother of New Cerinia.  Well... Katina and Corneria are fairly populated worlds... Marcus isn't about to let her wipe out twenty billion bystanders.  Even though he's torn about wanting his race restarted so he could get to know that half of himself a bit better...

Right now, though, Kursed is fooling him into helping her because he doesn't YET know about the terra-forming project... she's managed to telepathically block certain things so that he doesn't know her plan... Okay I'll hush now.

[GammaRay256]

True but Pigma and Wolf both SEEM to know what happened to James too, when they claim he's dead (You'll be seeing your dad soon, Fox;  Daddy screamed REAL GOOD before he DIED.)  Needless to say, everyone loves the James Theory.

Oh, yeah, I forgot about those quotes.  Thanks for the reminder.

There's also that interesting connection with the Aparoids.  They had to have come in contact with James as some point in order for the queen to imitate him.  Perhaps James was at the historical attack by Aparoids that they referenced in Assault.  Or maybe they had another connection to him at another time?

The Aparoids were a really cool enemy.

I read the synopsis, it's pretty interesting.  I'll have to read it some time.  Could you give me a link to the first one in the series?  (I noticed you have several, with "Reflections of Marcus McCloud" being the most recent - which one is the first?).

[Guest Julius Quasar]

Oh, yeah, I forgot about those quotes.  Thanks for the reminder.

There's also that interesting connection with the Aparoids.  They had to have come in contact with James as some point in order for the queen to imitate him.  Perhaps James was at the historical attack by Aparoids that they referenced in Assault.  Or maybe they had another connection to him at another time?

The Aparoids were a really cool enemy.

The Aparoid Queen Assimilated Pigma, so she knew all that Pigma knew, including what James sounded/looked like.

[GammaRay256]

The Aparoid Queen Assimilated Pigma, so she knew all that Pigma knew, including what James sounded/looked like.

Hmm... that's true.  Thanks for pointing that out.

[Kit-Karamak]

I read the synopsis, it's pretty interesting.  I'll have to read it some time.  Could you give me a link to the first one in the series?  (I noticed you have several, with "Reflections of Marcus McCloud" being the most recent - which one is the first?).

http://forums.starfox-online.net/index.php?topic=5440.msg154556#msg154556  There they are in chronological order.  DO NOT read Reflections of Krystal.  The first few chapters I didn't take seriously because i was bored... it just... turned INTO a 'thing' that people apparently liked later.  I suggest you start with Reflections of Peppy for the history, including chapter 4, where the first aparoid attack is written.  Urf... then, uh... everyone seems to like Reflections of the Future the most... it starts the day after "Assault" ends. 

I'm in the middle of exploring the idea of touching up Ref of Krystal.  Meh, lol. 

Peppy is only 4 chapters long, Future is very short.  Only 80 or 90 thousand words.

I suggest reading Peppy, followed by Fox, because I took those stories far more seriously, even though to date, Reflections of the Future still gets an odd amount of hit views.  It's surpassed 35k views, now.  The next most popular is Reflections of a New Generation with 28k hits.  But yeah, You'll want to start with short-arsed peppy and follow it with Reflections of Fox.

Just FYI, a "reflection" is what Krystal's race (in my story) refers to as a telepathic link up.  I don't mention it until MUCH later in the series, though.  So, in order to make some measure of "reflection" for Peppy, I made him reflect on "the Past" in each chapter, which is a different format from the rest of the series, which is a straight up action novel that is linear in chapter progression.

Word.

[Zicka]

There's so much fan-based conjecture and phony science in here that it's made the air thick.

[Kit-Karamak]

Go on - I love to hear a good opinion.  I won't hate on whatever you have to say!

[Zicka]

All these lengthy paragraphs on relations, ties, technology, hints; all of it relies on absolutely nothing. Adventures completely ignores every starfox foundation, from the unexplainable magic, to the fact that Fox and friends -who are mercenary PILOTS- would even be hired for this job.

It's like taking the broken pieces of glass from two bottles and trying to glue them back as a single whole.

[Falcory]

All these lengthy paragraphs on relations, ties, technology, hints; all of it relies on absolutely nothing. Adventures completely ignores every starfox foundation, from the unexplainable magic, to the fact that Fox and friends -who are mercenary PILOTS- would even be hired for this job.

Actually this paragraph is seemingly releying on nothing. First off, the magic was unexplainable because Magic IS unexplainable. And second where did it ever say the Starfox team was strictly mercenary PILOTS?

Mercenaries in general can be hired for a lot of jobs, including Bomb work, Freedom Fighting, Dogfighting,  Espionage, Marine Combat, generally anything that the the Merc accepts and gets paid for.

[Guest FoXXX]

Actually this paragraph is seemingly releying on nothing. First off, the magic was unexplainable because Magic IS unexplainable. And second where did it ever say the Starfox team was strictly mercenary PILOTS?

Mercenaries in general can be hired for a lot of jobs, including Bomb work, Freedom Fighting, Dogfighting,  Espionage, Marine Combat, generally anything that the the Merc accepts and gets paid for.

100% this^ :)

[Zicka]

Actually this paragraph is seemingly releying on nothing. First off, the magic was unexplainable because Magic IS unexplainable.

Magic is the bullspit superglue that holds together only WEAK PLOTS and has NO BUISNESS in the starfox universe. Notice how that magic was never ever utilized again in the following starfox games?

And second where did it ever say the Starfox team was strictly mercenary PILOTS?

In every Starfox game before Adventures. By air or land or sea they were in vehicles, roaming about and blasting crud up. They were described for their excellent piloting skills, not their proficiency in grueilla warfare. The starfox crew of the 64 era would have never left one pilot on the ground unsupported.

[Kit-Karamak]

Well, uh... In SF64, they use a submarine and a tank.  If you unlock the things in the game, you can run around on foot with a rocket launcher in SF64 (in multiplayer mode).  If you were a fan of the Nintendo Power comic, the series begins with Fox, Peppy, Slippy and Falco using rocket launchers to attack cargo transports moving through the desert.

As Mercenaries, Pepper may have thought it was an easy gig to send Fox in since the team desperately needed money.  You can't send in scientists to try and fix the problem (which Corneria probably wanted to do in the first place) if there are distress beacons being sent out.  Pepper didn't realize just how IN DISTRESS the planet was, other than it was coming apart but being held together by (presumably) some sort of ancient alien technology (Just because they're 'spell stones' doesn't mean they're magic.  For hundreds of years, "MAGIC" was a term used to identify something that is otherwise explainable.  Just ask ANY magician... every trick is based on speed, stealth, perception and TECHNOLOGY).  So Fox goes in... is upset he can't use his blaster and starts looking around.

Spirits?  That's somewhere between religious query and the unknown realm.  Scientists spend way too much money each year on trying to see if there is a recordable way to document an energy source in an area deemed 'haunted'.  Not necessarily a PKE meter of Ghostbuster fame, but they want to see what causes the hair to stand up on the back of your neck.  THAT energy comes from your mind.  Whether or not it's perception of a person susceptible to ghostly contact  OR... if it's just inner paranoia... no one knows and no one cares.  After all, just because a place is spooky doesn't mean EVERY human being will feel or sense this weirdness.  Some people will walk into a haunted area and shrug.  They'll go, "We should tear this down and build a mini mall."  Who knows, maybe they're just not perceptive to the ghostly realm.  Or they're just not paranoid and don't believe in ghosts, right? 

BUT! 

EVERYTHING in SF:Adventures can be explained if you put time an effort into using your imagination.  Krystal's staff is the easiest.  It shoots fire!  It shoots ice!  It launches you up to higher areas and it shields you from bad guys!  It shakes people to the ground by causing an enormous tremor.  It works in tandom with Fox's computerized wrist gauntlet thing, providing the 'battery power' to utilize Slippy's shape changing thing (Presumably holographic technology).  HECK, it even flips switches, pries rocks from the ground and turns bad guys into kibble from bashing them to death.  Sounds to me like this staff isn't magic at all.  It's an energy weapon if you ask me.  Shield generation? You see the way it charges before it launches you up to a ledge.  The tip opens from ovular to a trident-like tip when you shoot things from it.  It even runs low on batteries.  But hey!  It's officially GREEN because it runs off of plants. 

It's no secret that you can power a light bulb on some lemons.  Maybe the bulbs from those plants on Sauria are simply highly concentrated lemons? LOL

Moving on... The Force Point temple?  Obviously the Krazoa were technically awesome dudes.  Their planet got jacked up and they fixed it by holding it together. 

The Sharpclaw?  Mutated from something that hit Sauria, creating Moon Mountain Pass.  That's explained in game. 

Tricky breathing FIRE?  Yeah, dragons are one of the few mythical creatures that were said to breathe fire.  Tricky is a dinosaur.  So... now you've got to assume he's got an anatomical / biological liquid sack in his throat.  The contents are highly flammable and maybe he has naturally occurring metal deposits on his molars that, when clicked together, create a spark.  It can all be explained away with a little imagination. 

The most magical thing about that game is Krystal's telepathy and that isn't even MENTIONED until Assault, because Namco was looking at Star Trek the Next Gen and thought, "Hey!  She can fit the role of Diana Troy while the Aparoids can fill the role of the Borg! YAY!" 

That leaves only one thing... what was keeping the chunks of the planet from floating away?  It wasn't a tractor beam... or was it?  There was gravity on every stage, even the remains of the citadel used by the Cloud Runners.  Well... whatever held the planet together (Force Point Temples) must have been running on backup / auxiliary power to keep the chunks from drifting into orbit.  The "SPELL STONES" Were merely advanced batteries comprised of elements that, when combined, created its own power with the ability to last eons.  Why, of COURSE Andross would use them to make bioweapons.  He stuck it in the forehead of the big ole T-Rex. 

In fact, I don't recall the word "Magic" actually being used IN THE GAME to describe anything seen within.  Magical maybe.  But that's a broad adjective.  I think it's referred to as a "power up" or "ability" but I forget and can't be sure. 

OH!  Wait, there *IS* one magical part of the game!  The leap of faith. 

Fox completes and puzzle and is awarded with the horn that he can use prior to the blizzard scene.  He comes to a chasm and has to make a leap of faith, jumping into the void only to land on an invisible bridge.  The temple has no signs of technology or something that could power a cloaking array so... WE CAN ONLY ASSUME IT'S A NATURALLY OCCURRING PHENOMENON INVOLVING THE AMBIANT LIGHTING WITHIN THE ROOM... or something.  I'd say the bottomless pit beneath that invisible bridge was a little more magical, since if you fall into it... you never touch the bottom, you just start over with less health points.

How deep does that thing go anyhow? Seriously! lol

Don't mind me, I'm in a goofy mood tonight. 

I suppose the reason I came up with this post in the first place is to ask for opinions in regards to EXPLAINING everything on Sauria AS TECHNOLOGY... then asking people if it sounds too farfetched.  That way I can use those explanations for my fan fiction because I like giving things a hint of reality in the world about which I write. 

And all magic is explainable.  Like I said... ask any magician.  Provided he'll share with you, the one thing you'll find out for sure is... there's a science to it. 

Then again, we ARE talking about a franchise involving walking, talking, sentient animals!  That's unexplainable too, unless you use your imagination...right?

[Falcory]

Magic is the bullspit superglue that holds together only WEAK PLOTS and has NO BUISNESS in the starfox universe. Notice how that magic was never ever utilized again in the following starfox games?

I agree that Magic really has no business in the SF universe...but um , okay your saying that JUST because magic is in the game that's ignoring Starfox foundation? Dude, you would have given a better argument if you said "On Foot Exploration" was ignoring the foundation.

Now to be honest I'm going to make this clear. I HATE magic. Literally. Look it up, check the history behind it and you'll see why. But to say the Starfox AD was a broken up mess behind...well I don't even agree with that one. You'll notice that some sci-fi media DO include magic, so it's not out of the ordinary. And basically the only "Magic" in SF Ad wasn't any glue to hold a plot together, it really only had to do with some specific aspects of the game. 

In every Starfox game before Adventures. By air or land or sea they were in vehicles, roaming about and blasting crud up. They were described for their excellent piloting skills, not their proficiency in grueilla warfare. The starfox crew of the 64 era would have never left one pilot on the ground unsupported.

God...and I used to wonder why my mom would tell me if I "Played video games" all I would want to do is blow stuff up.

Dude think about what you said. Would that REALLY have worked with the Adventures mission? To be honest aren't there a LOT of mission that require you to do other things besides "blow stuff up"?

Like I said Mercs can have a lot of jobs, and the Starfox universe has obviously shown that. The conclusion that "They were described for their excellent piloting skills" doesn't stand up to be honest. You act like because that what they're best at, that's all they KNOW.

And another thing, in Starfox's line of work, you're never trained for just one aspect no, you have to go through hell to train for a buttload of stuff. You think Air-force pilots don't know Martial arts? Or how to use a gun, and survive on a battlefield? No they train those suckers on how to survive, and even though that may not be their strong suit, you can bet your ass they could hold their own in a fight on ground.

Well, uh... In SF64, they use a submarine and a tank.  If you unlock the things in the game, you can run around on foot with a rocket launcher in SF64 (in multiplayer mode).  If you were a fan of the Nintendo Power comic, the series begins with Fox, Peppy, Slippy and Falco using rocket launchers to attack cargo transports moving through the desert.

As Mercenaries, Pepper may have thought it was an easy gig to send Fox in since the team desperately needed money.  You can't send in scientists to try and fix the problem (which Corneria probably wanted to do in the first place) if there are distress beacons being sent out.  Pepper didn't realize just how IN DISTRESS the planet was, other than it was coming apart but being held together by (presumably) some sort of ancient alien technology (Just because they're 'spell stones' doesn't mean they're magic.  For hundreds of years, "MAGIC" was a term used to identify something that is otherwise explainable.  Just ask ANY magician... every trick is based on speed, stealth, perception and TECHNOLOGY).  So Fox goes in... is upset he can't use his blaster and starts looking around.

Good Points as well.

In fact, I don't recall the word "Magic" actually being used IN THE GAME to describe anything seen within.  Magical maybe.  But that's a broad adjective.  I think it's referred to as a "power up" or "ability" but I forget and can't be sure. 

Actually...lol...had this debate with a friend once.

Krystal's Staff is called Magical in the instruction booklet. But like I've pointed out it could mean Magical in the sense as "Something that appears to be like magic" case in point: "I had a magical evening Sarah"

But that can be debated. And it was. XD

Other mentions is the Magical force that holds the planet together. Of course maybe the Dinos could have just called it "Magic force" because that's what they thought it was, but then again Peppy says "Magical Force". Although  he could have been just emulating what Queen earthwalker said but...lol...it can be debated once again.

[Guest FoXXX]

I agree that Magic really has no business in the SF universe...but um , okay your saying that JUST because magic is in the game that's ignoring Starfox foundation? Dude, you would have given a better argument if you said "On Foot Exploration" was ignoring the foundation.

Now to be honest I'm going to make this clear. I HATE magic. Literally. Look it up, check the history behind it and you'll see why. But to say the Starfox AD was a broken up mess behind...well I don't even agree with that one. You'll notice that some sci-fi media DO include magic, so it's not out of the ordinary. And basically the only "Magic" in SF Ad wasn't any glue to hold a plot together, it really only had to do with some specific aspects of the game. 

God...and I used to wonder why my mom would tell me if I "Played video games" all I would want to do is blow stuff up.

Dude think about what you said. Would that REALLY have worked with the Adventures mission? To be honest aren't there a LOT of mission that require you to do other things besides "blow stuff up"?

Like I said Mercs can have a lot of jobs, and the Starfox universe has obviously shown that. The conclusion that "They were described for their excellent piloting skills" doesn't stand up to be honest. You act like because that what they're best at, that's all they KNOW.

And another thing, in Starfox's line of work, you're never trained for just one aspect no, you have to go through hell to train for a buttload of stuff. You think Air-force pilots don't know Martial arts? Or how to use a gun, and survive on a battlefield? Know they train those suckers on how to survive, and even though that may not be their strong suit, you can bet your ass they could hold their own in a fight on ground.

Well said. You and I think a lot alike :)