History of Starfox fandom

[Asper Sarnoff]

I do not think that acronym was necessary.  and personnly judging by all I've read here Your are overeacting to morons among other things instead of complaining about the stupid yiff DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!!!! all i've seen from you Dz is complaining about the idoits that do the Yiff well instead of complaing in front of us here. Complain to them ,please?

I'd advice not to get mad about this Kursed. If we had to lock every tread that became a discussion, even a somewhat heated one like this, then we wouldn't really have a reason for a forum to excist.

Both Falcory, DZ and Zicka brings up good, valid points, even if they disagree with eachother, and as long as someone doesn't explode over it, I see nothing wrong in this discussion.

[DZComposer]

I do not think that acronym was necessary.  and personnly judging by all I've read here Your are overeacting to morons among other things instead of complaining about the stupid yiff. DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!!!! All I've seen from you Dz is complaining about the idoits that do the Yiff here  in front of people who hate it too. well instead of complaing in front of us here. Complain to them ,please?

That's all you're bothering to read. I have said lots of other things.

I don't mean to be a headache here ,but did you even play the game Fox specificakly ask pepper "BUT WHY  COULDN'T"T I BRING MY BLASTER?" oh and another thing so you don't think Fox is proficient with a  staff you think he's always going to have his blaster avalible to him I mean  for one:Fox needs to fix the arwings  and stuff perhaps some blasters are damaged too? and two: one word Contract he's a mercenary and Mercenaries sign a contracts to work so this contract may have included no weapons other than the ones mouted on your ship... therefore if he had violated this agreement No pay and he'd be one heck of a loser. (Besides saving a good looking girl who can fight is a good bonus for a  guy surrounded by guys most of the time (Hence the poster on the wall.)

Trying to justify this in-universe does nothing to my point, being that Nintendo made a nonsensical decision by putting Star Fox into Dinosaur Planet.

The reason wasn't because Pepper said "It's about saving the planet, not blowing it up" it's because rare needed an excuse for Fox not to have a blaster so that they didn't have start over from scratch on the gameplay mechanics, which would have further delayed the game.

___________________

And I'VE stated, that that was the only point I was talking about in the first place. Any other points regarding that I agree with you on. So basically I wasn't debating you on the argument wholehand, I was debating that particular point in general.

But you use that one point, which wasn't even the central point of my argument, to absolve SFAd from any blame in what happened to the fanbase, while ignoring the other points I made repeatedly.

Actually it was.

Dude you and Mister K know Starfox history better than anyone I know, so you should know that Nintendo was on time. They went to Rare and butted in on their project because they hadn't even started on a Starfox game yet. Doing this allowed them to have a Starfox title out on time, and not lose any money. If they delayed the game, they would have lost money, therefore there being a possibility of the Starfox series getting dropped. 

That doesn't disprove what I said. Nintendo should not have done that to Rare. It was one of the factors that led to Rare and Nintendo separating.

Also, you don't know that they would have lost money. Yes, costs would have gone up, but the additional development time could have led to a game that would have doubled the sales. In business, it is hard to make a call like that unless you have the actual numbers in front of you.

Basically though where I was ORIGNALLY going with this is how the Adventures and the Adventures fans where shunned for this. Sure it's sick and perverted and I'm against to be honest, but people have an opinion. And even though Krystal isn't dressed to be a "Yiff slut" we have to take things we hear with a little grain of salt, because if we flame and yell and hate, what happens? Well the Flame war answered that one.

Not only that but not all Adventures fans liked Adventures just because (Or even for) Krystal. A lot of people liked the game in general. But because of the shunning and the people getting more upset than they should have been, people are labeled that way. it's just like furries. A lot of furries don't like yiff. But they're labeled that way because of the sick yiff comunity.

Who's to say if they had done some OTHER Starfox game, that we wouldn't have some sick yiff fans coming in drooling over some other character? Or perhaps Katt Munroe, if she was given some sort of lead roll?

First you say you're not blaming the game, and then I turn around and you are. You just don't get it do you? We live in a world filled with SICK PERVERTED PEOPLE. It didn't matter if Adventures was made or any other game, people will ALWAYS find a way.

But since you say that's not the root cause, I'm going to be a good sport and put it aside. But you shouldn't blame me for debating you on that point in the first place, since it's the one that doesn't make sense.

Fristly, the community had it's ways of dealing with people like that. They weren't a new phenomenon. Need I mention Seppel again?

Secondly, it was a contributing factor. The reason I was debating it with you is that you ran with it as if it were my primary point.

So to be honest, you're not talking about the Genre shift. You're talking about settings. That Fox didn't have his Blaster, Landmaster ect. Not only I agree with this but it's actually one of the flaws I see in Adventures, especially since Fox was shown to have a blaster in one of the older SF DP trailers.

No, you miss the point again.

SFAd WAS a genre shift! How much shooting is in this game? Very little.

Right, Because we see so much of Bafomdads and Spellstones in other Magical Dungeon Adventure games. *Rolls eyes*

Even though Starfox Ad had those items in the game, it also had Sci-fi elements. There was Fox's wrist watch. The dino-translator device. Zoom goggles, The Sharpclaw disguise Fuel Cells, The Arwing. These were elements not seen in most "MAGICAL" dungeon adventure. Not to mention in most MDA's the hero can cast spells, and use other things of an obvious magical nature. Starfox Ad had none of these elements previously mentioned and since it comes from a Sci-fi theme in the first place, doesn't make sense why someone would try to label it as a "Magical Dungeon Adventure". 

This is unimportant. My point was that they took SF into a crazy, nonsensical direction. If you want to label the direction something else, go ahead. It is still nonsensical.

Agreed. Although all missions do not require weapons. Pepper obviously didn't want the planet turning into a warszone, so understandably you can see why Fox was asked to leave his blaster.

Stay out of universe, please.

The reason for no blaster was technical, not story. Rare didn't want to redo the mechanics to allow for it. You mention the earlier trailer. They likely tried to include it and the realized they'd have to redo the mechanics from the ground-up.

Um excuse me....WHAT technology did he abandon? He flies down in a freakin space air plane just to get on the planet!

Which he promptly abandons in favor of a magic stick and an annoying tag-along dinosaur.

True that is the definition of how the game is played. But in mostly all platformers, you MUST reach the end of the goal to complete  the level. Mario really doesn't do this anymore, and even if he didn't I don't see much platform action. No more than what Link and Samus go through and just because they jump a few holes doesn't qualify their games as platformers.

The goal is the Power Star/Shine Sprite. When you get it, the level ends. Mario is still a platformer. Everyone+dog still classifies it that way. Even those who classify games for a living. Moby Games, for instance: http://www.mobygames.com/game/wii/super-mario-galaxy calls SMG a platformer (All platformers are in the Action genre on Moby), and here's their definition: Platform: Describes any action game where the playfield is set up as a series of floors, levels, or platforms for the player to navigate. Platform games usually require a small bit of strategy and/or puzzle solving. Examples: Prince of Persia, Dark Castle, etc. Part of the Perspectives and Viewpoints category.

I explained this above. I wasn't talking about the fall in general, I was talking about how you blamed Adventures for the other aspect. Don't blame people for walking out...hey they do what they gotta do.

I'm sick of arguing about idiots, OK? I was placing the blame on SFAd for the entire situation, not just the idiots.

Last time I'm saying this because I know everyone should know this by now:

IT COULDN'T BE DONE FOR ADVENTURES.

Do we wish they did it? Hell yeah! But no, we know it was beyond their doing and because of the time constraints THEY COULDN'T START A STAFOX GAME FROM SCRATCH.

You missed my point AGAIN. I am not talking about the same situation.  Reread, please:

"I meant a Star Fox adventure game planned from the start to be a Star Fox game and given a reasonable development cycle."

I didn't say Rare had to make it. I didn't say it had to replace DP. I merely said that if this hypothetical game existed, then it likely would have been better received. You took off with this "it was impossible to make" thing that is unrelated to the point.

Btw never told anyone to to STFU, now you're putting words in MY MOUTH.

Calling people "too complainy" is a fancy way of saying STFU.

This is seemingly because you want to explain the whole situation as a whole. You just don't understand: I'm not DEBATING the situation as a WHOLE, I was debating the particular point that was talked about far above.

And here is the problem. I AM talking about the situation as a whole. I have been since the beginning, and have been trying to frame this debate in that context. It was you who latched on this idiots meme, despite my prodding and protests. I can only assume you're doing so because it is the easiest angle for you to attack, despite it being largely irrelevant.

If you don't want to debate the larger issue, then you may as well stop now.

Dude...in your EXACT sentence, YOU said: I would have this discussion with you even if I WEREN'T an Admin. Now this implies that because you're an ADMIN you MUST talk to me about this, because you said EVEN IF YOU WEREN'T.

Now what really made me note this is because I never even MENTIONED about your being an admin, and somehow you singly brought this up with the other fact "I'm not trying to control anyone."

I dunno if you where thinking of something else at the time or what but this really had nothing to do with anything. I MYSELF had stated  that I was not trying to control anyone, but your statement just came outta nowhere.

Since you don't understand my word choice, I will rephrase that:

1. The fact that I am an admin is irrelevant to this debate.

2. I would debate this with you anywhere, even on a board where I am not an admin. IE: I am debating this because of my opinions on the subject, NOT because I am an admin.

3. I am NOT trying to exert control over you. I am merely defending us older fans from your "too complainy" attack.

[Kursed]

I'd advice not to get mad about this Kursed. If we had to lock every tread that became a discussion, even a somewhat heated one like this, then we wouldn't really have a reason for a forum to excist.

Both Falcory, DZ and Zicka brings up good, valid points, even if they disagree with eachother, and as long as someone doesn't explode over it, I see nothing wrong in this discussion.

I'm just trying to make that part stick out  I'm not mad.

[Guest Julius Quasar]

I heard that  was created as a lampoon/parody of the "perverted" Krystal fan base.

[Guest FoXXX]

I heard that  was created as a lampoon/parody of the "perverted" Krystal fan base.

But I'm a lot like him, you know what I mean? ;)

[Guest Julius Quasar]

But I'm a lot like him, you know what I mean?

Of course...many [male] fans of Krystal are like  , to a certain degree...

[Guest FoXXX]

Of course...many [male] fans of Krystal are like  , to a certain degree...

to a certain degree...

;)

[Kursed]

BURN THE LADIES MEN AT  A STAKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SPEAKERnight.]

I heard that  was created as a lampoon/parody of the "perverted" Krystal fan base.

That does kinda make sense now that I think about it.

[Kursed]

That does kinda make sense now that I think about it.

wow and i thought my ideas about him were crazy and now i see that my idea's about him might be true...

[Falcory]

I moved my post to DZ, to this thread http://forums.starfox-online.net/index.php?topic=5222.new#new, since the topic  fits more that this one does.

[Dermot]

I found this thread on Google.  it's been a very long time since I was registered or involved in a Star Fox online community.

I'm Dermot.  I...actually ran the first MouthOff and then Papetoon in the 1990s.  I don't know if anyone I know is still around.

[Layeyes]

History of the US SF fandom in a nutshell (as I remember it):

Once upon a time, there was Papetoon. If memory serves, Papetoon was the first major English-language SF community (if it wasn't the first, it was close to it).

Papetoon was named after the planet Fox lived on according to the Itoh comic.

I want to say it pre-dated SF64, but I could be wrong. I wasn't around for Papetoon.

"Mouth Off" was the name of the forum.

It eventually descended into flame war.

Starfox.org was formed by former members, and with it came the Mouth Off refugee camp: http://web.archive.org/web/19991006025410/disc.server.com/Indices/39145.html (Old school web forum! Most of the posts are not in the archive)

The refugee camp died when SF.org's admins lost interest. 1999, I think.

Starfox.org came back in 2000, but dropped the "mouth off" title from it's forum, and began using modern forum software.

Around this time, a rift had developed in the fandom. The followers of Puffy Wulf, creator of the Star Fox Database, followed him to sfx64.com, and it's board, "Outside the Great Fox" or OTG. I joined OTG as my first SF community a couple of months after it's founding. A few months later, I joined starfox.org.

Sf.org eventually either merged into or all the members went to lylat.net under NeoPhoenixTE.

This was the beginning of the end of the golden-era of the fandom.

When SFAd came out, there was a mass exodus at both sites, mainly caused by a new type of SF fan: the Krystal fanboy.

lylat.net became elitist quick. They shunned SFAd fans, and, well, anyone who wasn't around from the mouth-off days. Eventually one of their admins went nuts and deleted all of the posts and boards. No one had a backup, and no one was willing to rebuild. The original SF community was now dead.

There was an attempt to revive starfox.org, but it didn't take off.

OTG survives to this day, but shortly after SFAd came out, it descended into flames. OTG had only a single admin, who lost interest, yet still to this day pays for hosting and domain.... The flames got bad, and mods were appointed, but some people got butthurt that they weren't chosen, and instead of saying "sorry, not everyone can be mod," the admin appointed no one. OTG is for all intents and purposes dead. Another mass exodus occurred. Even I left, joining a couple of startups known as Arwing Landing and StarFox-Online. A handful of people hang around OTG, but they are pretty hostile to anyone not in their circle.

But around this time, BondFan and StealthFox were creating sites of their own. I don't remember either of them from OTG or lylat.net. If anyone knows if either of them were at Mouth-Off or the refugee camp, please speak up. Smaller sites also popped-up since these events.

StealthFox founded ArwingLanding.net. AL has had some slow and rough periods, but has remained relatively stable compared to the other fansites, and survives to this day.

BondFan founded StarFox-Online.com. SFO lasted for a while, but eventually the domain was allowed to expire.

There were talks of an AL-SFO merger at one point before the domain expired, but it fell through.

Mr. Krystal and Myself stepped in just in time to save the community from failure. Unable to obtain the starfox-online.com domain until 2009, starfox-online.net was created and survives to this day (as you know ). In 2009, the starfox-online.com domain was released from the parker, and I purchased it, redirecting it to the .net site.

There were talks of an AL-SFO merger at one point, but it fell through.

AL has more older fans, while we here have a lot of newer fans.

There are other sites, starwingHQ, comes to mind, but from what I can tell, SFO and AL are the current largest and most active dedicated SF communities.

The fates of the domains starfox.org and lylat.net are abandonment, IE parked. ( http://www.starfox.org http://www.lylat.net )

 

Oh wow Idk why but reading stuff like this just fascinates me man... good ol History. UuU

 

Sort of glad things are still running a bit for the fandom. 

[Robert Monroe]

Man, reading that brought me back.

 

I can offer some insight on the more sideline Starfox Communities. Rare Extreme's Starfox Adventures subforum (which was so massive and out of contrl it should've been a forum all onto itself), the McCloud Space Station and Krystal Lovers Association (splinters from RE forums, and both which I saw the creation of), side forums like Lylat Alliance and Cornerian Intelligence Agency, as well as a few others.

[InfinitySquared]

Wow, that's...one heck of a thread bump! 0_o

[CrypticQuery]

I've gone ahead and pinned this topic; the information housed within it is quite valuable and is a good read for sure.

[Gestalt]

Oh wow, that read. I feel like walking around with my chest pumped out like I finished Super Hexagon.

[LazerMaster5]

And to think this forum survives to this day and is still head strong. Here, we are like family. Never stop being awesome, SF-O.

[Vixette]

Hello! DZ, thank you for the lovely summary (er, 4 years ago) and for your work in saving the fandom, it brought back a lot of memories! I remember your name although I don't think we talked a lot.

 

Anyway, I was in the fandom mostly during the Mouth Off/MORC days. The days of Fox's Crew (the premiere SF site at the time), ICQ, Area 6 Chat . . . I'm drowning in nostalgia here! I think I was on OTG awhile but after the original group got really fractured I got distracted with the whole "college" thing and left for the most part.

 

Other random things I am remembering:

-Mouth Off was totally hand-coded by the webmaster of Papetoon, Dermot I think? I think it took awhile to even get avatars!

-We had a Java-based chatroom (very high-tech at the time) called Area 6 Chat that was really popular. I don't think it was hosted on one of the "big" sites either. There was also a lot of chatting in ICQ which was a chat client like AIM or Yahoo Messenger. It's technically still around I guess but I have no idea who would bother these days.

-Some people lead by BlueYoshi tried to make a 3D-animated fan-made Star Fox movie. It got as far as those kinds of projects always get.

-Lots of great text-based RPing. I remember a story/game/campaign called Defiance started by NeoPhoenixTE that ended up flaming apart horribly though.

-The fan art and fan fiction scene were ON FIRE. Sadly it looks like the sites that held all of it are dead and thus all of it is likely gone too. Which is too bad because it was fantastic. Being able to share art, writing, etc. on THE INTERNET was a new thing and people were really excited to share with each other.

 

Including THIS:

 

 

That's "me," the vixen in blue with a yellow headset! Almost all of these furs ring a bell memory-wise although I can only name like half of them. And no I didn't draw this, this is Karma Leafbearer aka Katie Popp aka the yellow frog lady at the top.

 

I drew stuff too but it's not online anymore. I want to see if I can go through reeeeeal old CD-Rs and find the scans . . . I'm pretty sure I trashed the actual drawings long ago sadly.

 

DZ: To answer your question in your original post about whether StealthFox and BondFan were on MO, the names vaguely ring a bell for me so I think your hunch is right that they were around at that time although I don't remember them well.

 

So um I have no idea if anyone wanted to read that but I sure had fun writing it! See you around the board!

[DZComposer]

Nice to see another from the days of old! I do remember seeing you around back in the day, though I don't remember us talking much, either.

I had forgotten about Fox's Crew, though I think that was a little bit before my time.

I do have a small collection of older fanart, but I'm not sure if I will post it given that I have no idea how to contact most of the artists (and in some cases I don't even remember who the artists were).

Thanks for adding to what I posted. Also, if I remembered anything wrong, please feel free to correct me.

[Dr. Orange]

Damn. Time warp Friday back to yonder years. 

 

Looks like Graveshift bumps aren't always bad ... right?

[DZComposer]

It's a sticky thread. Sticky threads exist because the idea is the thread shouldn't fall out of view.

Regular threads, once their discussion has ended should fall out of view to make way for the new discussions.

[Dr. Orange]

I get that. I was just making a joke pointed at the many dead threads we've had revived this year and this thread only became sticky recently.

[Robin]

Oh my gosh..it's all of us. I remember that drawing. I think I can remember quite a few of those people, and I certainly remember Katie, AKA Karma Leafbarer. It's me..it's us...it's..still beautiful. Sorry...had a nostalgia trip there. In case you want to know, I am the fox up there with the blue headband two furs away from Karma. Thank you for sharing this, Vixette. I remember you. I still have the drawing I made for you back then.

[That Ain't Falco]

Let there be an update to this post: Arwing Landing is dead. The site's main page and gallery are archived, however the last gallery archive was from 2007. I may have been the last to create an account, as I registered as HoodieNinja, making me user 5400. This was the night before the domain expired. Currently, I believe, the domain is up for sale. Let's hope SF0 can bring back the fandom.