the lylat hotel RP Discussion

[Samantha Weltzin]

To all the people who keep saying, "If you don't like it, just ignore it," I urge you to apply the same principle to what Milky and Robert are saying. They have just as much right to their opinions as you do, and there's nothing stopping them from bringing up what they feel to be legitimate points about an issue that may need attention.

This "Happy huggy, everybody agrees with each other" vibe that people are trying to preserve is obnoxious. Conflict is not a bad thing, especially when it helps accomplish something. I'm not going to comment directly on the topic at-hand because I'm not well-enough-versed in the rules to make an intelligent proposal, but if you disagree, state your reasons why, not some bull about "ruining the fun for everyone else." Using your own logic, you can just ignore what doesn't please you. However, nothing gets done.

Ris probably had the best counterargument so far. The rest of those who disagree with Milky could take a few pointers from him.

[Milkyway64]

Milky, Robert, the point of the roleplay is to be a casual one, much like the two bar roleplays.  That's why it's sticky'd.  That's why it can go on forever until the next part is set up.

That's why it's not breaking the rules.  The sticky roleplays are allowed to do that.  The hotel is just receiving much more activity than the bar roleplays.  That's all.

May I have some sort of confirmation of this? The fact that you're the only one to come forth with this, including waffles who CAME for the thing and is on my side even, suggests a bluff, albeit a believable one.

I don't care whether or not you join the roleplay or whether or not you dislike it.  All I know is that we all enjoy it, and seeing as it's not breaking the rules I see no reason for you to be complaining as you are.

It's fun, sure, but that means very little in fairness. However, if what you say is true, I'll drop that, even though the RP limitation is all sorts of stupid especially since it should be the other way around if anything (ergo, we can have as many creative story RPs as we have creative members, with only one thread for hurfdurfrandomness.

It doesn't have the plot structure you like?  Then go to a roleplay that does.  Stop bogging down our fun so you can get your own satisfaction out of putting us down.

And I very well would. If they A; existed and B; actually had people paying attention to them. (And yes, I know they do, but the difference between those and THIS is alarming.)

As for this little tidbit.

Maybe some of the other roleplays are slower because they follow a different style.  Yes, those ones are more accustomed to longer, more detailed posts.

A different style, and both are perfectly acceptable.  You don't have to like it if you don't want to, but everyone else here is just fine with the posts in the hotel roleplay.

Also, keep in mind that the people in the hotel roleplay are online a lot.  Seeing as a lot of people have grouped up anyway, a lot of posts can be made, whereas in other roleplays it can be difficult to get everyone on at once, thus keeping posting to a minimum.

The existence of this roleplay, nor the way in which it is being carried out, is not killing the life of the others.  Each has its own reason for how fast it's going, unrelated to one another.

No. This whole bit just reeks of wrong. In a controlled, story based RP, everyone is ENCOURAGED even to add their pieces when they get on, not all at once like an IM conversation. You log in, post, log off, the others do simalrly, and you repeat. What you get is a steady flow that only chokes up as it's user's do, and I wonder what could be choking our user's up? Certainly it's not posting the 10 times a day quota in a certain hotel, if even partially?

Bottom line is saying that the LLH doesn't interfere with anything is foolish, as it demands (A LOT of) time and time is finite for all our players.

If you're just jealous, then I'm sorry you feel that way.  Grow up.

If you're not, then I ask that you back off and let us enjoy doing what we enjoy doing.  Again, I'll stress here that it's perfectly acceptable, so there's no reason to complain.

Please don't start talking like this after such a good post so far. If it was "perfectly acceptable" then I wouldn't have a problem, in the same way that if it wasn't than the mods would have done something. I have made clear the reasons behind my opinion. At least 2 other people see merit in it. Don't treat it as if it doesn't count and I'm a bad guy.

[Fluxy]

To all the people who keep saying, "If you don't like it, just ignore it," I urge you to apply the same principle to what Milky and Robert are saying. They have just as much right to their opinions as you do, and there's nothing stopping them from bringing up what they feel to be legitimate points about an issue that may need attention.

This "Happy huggy, everybody agrees with each other" vibe that people are trying to preserve is obnoxious. Conflict is not a bad thing, especially when it helps accomplish something. I'm not going to comment directly on the topic at-hand because I'm not well-enough-versed in the rules to make an intelligent proposal, but if you disagree, state your reasons why, not some bull about "ruining the fun for everyone else." Using your own logic, you can just ignore what doesn't please you. However, nothing gets done.

I have no problem with their opinions. It is just silly why they have to complain to us, when the mods are simply one PM away. Sure there is no stopping them bringing their points up, but I think it could have been done in a better way, and feel that Milkey, just as I could have for mine, could have thought a bit more on how he said it, and thought about all the other sticky ones, and taking in their rules, as they are different. -WE- did not make it sticky, the mods did. If he is trying to change our opinions, he is not going to be able to with the way he is going about it.

Ris probably had the best counterargument so far. The rest of those who disagree with Milky could take a few pointers from him.

Yes, of course we could. But then again, we are not the only ones needing to take pointers from sating our points.

[Milkyway64]

I'd like to make clear that I'm not after anyone in this topic. I'm going against the RP, or rather the effects of said RP themselves. I'm not trying to change opinions, I am making mine known, and hey, our ever thorough RP mods will stumble across this eventually and get both sides to consider in doing so.

[Arashikage]

but take this into consideration.  You have more people wanting to keep this RP up than not.  You're outnumbered

[Ris Grestar]

No. This whole bit just reeks of wrong. In a controlled, story based RP, everyone is ENCOURAGED even to add their pieces when they get on, not all at once like an IM conversation. You log in, post, log off, the others do simalrly, and you repeat. What you get is a steady flow that only chokes up as it's user's do, and I wonder what could be choking our user's up? Certainly it's not posting the 10 times a day quota in a certain hotel, if even partially?

Bottom line is saying that the LLH doesn't interfere with anything is foolish, as it demands (A LOT of) time and time is finite for all our players.

Everyone -is- encouraged to add their pieces, though the majority of the roleplayers in the hotel roleplay get on and stay on for a long time.  Why should they be limited to only posting a few times a day when interaction can be made?

Please don't start talking like this after such a good post so far. If it was "perfectly acceptable" then I wouldn't have a problem, in the same way that if it wasn't than the mods would have done something. I have made clear the reasons behind my opinion. At least 2 other people see merit in it. Don't treat it as if it doesn't count and I'm a bad guy.

Hey, I'm human, and I won't deny that this situation irks me rather greatly.

When I said it was perfectly acceptable, I was again referring to the rules.  Please, if you can find the rule that limits sticky'd roleplays, show me.  I'll drop this argument.

[Fluxy]

I'd like to make clear that I'm not after anyone in this topic. I'm going against the RP, or rather the effects of said RP themselves. I'm not trying to change opinions, I am making mine known, and hey, our ever thorough RP mods will stumble across this eventually and get both sides to consider in doing so.

Alright. Both sides have made their ideas, and opinions known. I say now we just let it rest, and allow what happens, to happen.

[Milkyway64]

Everyone -is- encouraged to add their pieces, though the majority of the roleplayers in the hotel roleplay get on and stay on for a long time.  Why should they be limited to only posting a few times a day when interaction can be made?

I never said we should have a limit. In fact I'm pushing to REMOVE limits. That's part of why the LLH is so successful, IT HAS VERY FEW RULES. What I said is that it's bothersome how the hotel leeches activity from everywhere else, in turn limiting US from OUR interaction. For example, I know you, Mr. Nintendo, and Nick are in The Mimic, where's all the interaction there? Nothing is keeping it from happening, and in fact it's something new. Our characters can interact in a situation of panic and paranoia, this could lead to a greater understanding of the characters as a whole than the lazy, casual nature of the hotel. At the end of the day, my feelings mount up to SPREADING OUT, stop limiting the RPs available, SPREADING OUT, and actually sticking to a clear set of rules. Leading to;

Hey, I'm human, and I won't deny that this situation irks me rather greatly.

When I said it was perfectly acceptable, I was again referring to the rules.  Please, if you can find the rule that limits sticky'd roleplays, show me.  I'll drop this argument.

Inversely, in the rule thread I never saw anything suggesting this. If I overlooked something, show me now, because as is this is a "house rule" imprinted by the community and not from any credible source.

[Robert Monroe]

Milky, Robert, the point of the roleplay is to be a casual one, much like the two bar roleplays.  That's why it's sticky'd.  That's why it can go on forever until the next part is set up.

I have no problems with casual RPs. I have a problem when the casual RP becomes an amorphous blob of posts with no structure, flow, or consistancy. Its just spam. Thats it. It is, for all intents and purposes, an IN-CHARACTER CHAT ROOM. This is -not- good RPing form. This is my complaint against the Hotel: its not even a real RP, its just balmy chitter chatter. And not only that, but its intimidating to even get involved due to its size. That makes it -worse- for newcomers.

That's why it's not breaking the rules.  The sticky roleplays are allowed to do that.

I don't recall there being a rule saying stickied RPs can become aimless, formless blobs of spam. Milky has pointed out a few rules its broken already, care to share where it says stickies are exempt? Again, I have no problem with casual RPs, I have a problem with how the Hotel is managed.

Stop bogging down our fun so you can get your own satisfaction out of putting us down.

I like the part where you seem to paint us as jackasses who want our jollies.

If I wanted -that-, I'd just go troll-spam the RP myself. There are much easier ways to be a dick, you know.

If you're just jealous, then I'm sorry you feel that way.  Grow up.

If you're not, then I ask that you back off and let us enjoy doing what we enjoy doing.  Again, I'll stress here that it's perfectly acceptable, so there's no reason to complain.

Again you do that thing were you talk down to us as if we're just bitching and moaning that we aren't getting our way. We're not, we are expressing legitimate dislike for a RP that is poorly structured and poorly maintained, bloated with spam and unproductive posting. Again, CASUAL RP IS FINE, but the Hotel is NOT the way to do it.

And no, I will kindly not back off just because I'm supposedly making you uncomfortable with my complaing filing.

[Ris Grestar]

I never said we should have a limit. In fact I'm pushing to REMOVE limits. That's part of why the LLH is so successful, IT HAS VERY FEW RULES. What I said is that it's bothersome how the hotel leeches activity from everywhere else, in turn limiting US from OUR interaction. For example, I know you, Mr. Nintendo, and Nick are in The Mimic, where's all the interaction there? Nothing is keeping it from happening, and in fact it's something new. Our characters can interact in a situation of panic and paranoia, this could lead to a greater understanding of the characters as a whole than the lazy, casual nature of the hotel. At the end of the day, my feelings mount up to SPREADING OUT, stop limiting the RPs available, SPREADING OUT, and actually sticking to a clear set of rules. Leading to;

In that case, I agree.  I dislike the limits the roleplays have.

As for 'The Mimic', my posts aren't limited because my focus is on this roleplay, but rather because I'm not sure how to get involved.  My character isn't a very social person--I mean, being who and what profession he is, he prefers hanging back in the shadows and away from the mingling crowds.  Trying to play him out accurately, I don't have him running up and introducing himself to the others.  With as little interaction as I can get from that until action picks up and he -has- to interact with someone, or until someone speaks with him, I can't post much as it is.  It's not because of the Hotel roleplay, but because of who I'm playing in 'The Mimic'.

Inversely, in the rule thread I never saw anything suggesting this. If I overlooked something, show me now, because as is this is a "house rule" imprinted by the community and not from any credible source.

From what I understand, I just asked you to show me the rule limiting the roleplay while you told me to show you the rule not limiting the roleplay...

If I misunderstood, please tell me, because otherwise I'm not sure how to respond.

As for your post, Robert, I'll just direct you back to the post of mine which you quoted.  I'd hate to repeat myself--You know the feeling.

And yeah, I painted you two that way because that's how you two came across to me.  I come online to see two pages of debate, plus, being perfectly honest, I've a nasty bias towards you.  Sorry.

[Arashikage]

Whatever, I'm done arguing my points.  This argument is becoming more and more aggravating and I don't want any more part in it.  Let's just let the mods see this and do with it what they will, what happens happens, we can't change it, so let's just get on with our lives

[ballisticwaffles]

Whatever, I'm done arguing my points.  This argument is becoming more and more aggravating and I don't want any more part in it.  Let's just let the mods see this and do with it what they will, what happens happens, we can't change it, so let's just get on with our lives

And this is why nothing ever gets done. At the first sign of change or agreement, people back off or call to a higher athoraty to solve it for them.

[Milkyway64]

In that case, I agree.  I dislike the limits the roleplays have.

As for 'The Mimic', my posts aren't limited because my focus is on this roleplay, but rather because I'm not sure how to get involved.  My character isn't a very social person--I mean, being who and what profession he is, he prefers hanging back in the shadows and away from the mingling crowds.  Trying to play him out accurately, I don't have him running up and introducing himself to the others.  With as little interaction as I can get from that until action picks up and he -has- to interact with someone, or until someone speaks with him, I can't post much as it is.  It's not because of the Hotel roleplay, but because of who I'm playing in 'The Mimic'.

But Ris! You can do SO MUCH. You're in exactly the sort of spot to be foreboding and plan ahead. You more than any of us are free to do whatever you want, as you're not stuck with a friend or on duty. You can do better than that. D=

But I digress. Another topic exists for this.

From what I understand, I just asked you to show me the rule limiting the roleplay while you told me to show you the rule not limiting the roleplay...

If I misunderstood, please tell me, because otherwise I'm not sure how to respond.

Point was is you can't just make up rules, this breaks rules. The burden of proof is on you, as for this to work there has to be a written exception, not a specific denial.

And this is why nothing ever gets done. At the first sign of change or agreement, people back off or call to a higher athoraty to solve it for them.

To be fair, this sort of behavior is encouraged most of the time. I personally believe that a situation like this needs discussion, but in a troublemaker/troll scenario it often is better to not feed the troll and let the mods do their job.

However, this is serious discussion, so...

[Fluxy]

And this is why nothing ever gets done. At the first sign of change or agreement, people back off or call to a higher athoraty to solve it for them.

Nothing will get done with our simple bickering.

Both sides have clearly stated their points, and both are now dragging it out. -We- can't do much more. None of us have power at all in whether it stays or not.

Milkey said that he just wanted his opinions known. They are known, and yet this all still goes on.

[Ris Grestar]

But Ris! You can do SO MUCH. You're in exactly the sort of spot to be foreboding and plan ahead. You more than any of us are free to do whatever you want, as you're not stuck with a friend or on duty. You can do better than that. D=

...You have a point.  For that, curse my lack of pure creativity...I'd never thought of it that way.

But yes, back to the topic at hand.

Point was is you can't just make up rules, this breaks rules. The burden of proof is on you, as for this to work there has to be a written exception, not a specific denial.

By the definition I was taught of what a casual roleplay was, the hotel roleplay isn't breaking any rules.  That was my argument.  I know the normal roleplays have page/post limits and such, and that was where the sticky'd factor came in.

[Milkyway64]

Nothing will get done with our simple bickering.

Both sides have clearly stated their points, and both are now dragging it out. -We- can't do much more. None of us have power at all in whether it stays or not.

Milkey said that he just wanted his opinions known. They are known, and yet this all still goes on.

Simple bickering would be more along the lines if I was just jealous that this RP was more popular than, say, one of mine. This is discussion, if heated discussion.

Also, if ALL I wanted was my opinion known, I probably wouldn't have put so much effort into this topic.

[Robert Monroe]

As for your post, Robert, I'll just direct you back to the post of mine which you quoted.  I'd hate to repeat myself--You know the feeling.

And yeah, I painted you two that way because that's how you two came across to me.  I come online to see two pages of debate, plus, being perfectly honest, I've a nasty bias towards you.  Sorry.

Get over it. Just because you don't like us is no reason to act like a jerkass towards us. I dislike plenty of people, but I don't let that dictate my actions.

And I am reviewing the (current) RP rules now, and....

9. Each RP should have a specific final objective/scenario. This is to ensure that other people's RPs get a chance to be active.

Hotel breaks this one. It potentially dances with others, but since they're notexplicit I won't post them (lest I don't feel they are, anyway), and there is to my sight no official sanctioned rule that says Stickied RPs can break the rules and do whatever the hell they want.

[Ris Grestar]

Get over it. Just because you don't like us is no reason to act like a jerkass towards us. I dislike plenty of people, but I don't let that dictate my actions.

And I am reviewing the (current) RP rules now, and....

9. Each RP should have a specific final objective/scenario. This is to ensure that other people's RPs get a chance to be active.

Hotel breaks this one. It potentially dances with others, but since they're notexplicit I won't post them (lest I don't feel they are, anyway), and there is to my sight no official sanctioned rule that says Stickied RPs can break the rules and do whatever the hell they want.

Alright then, why don't you go and tell the mods that all three of the sticky'd roleplays are breaking the rules?

-None of them- have a specific goal or endpoint.  That's why they were made stickies in the first place.

[Fluxy]

Simple bickering would be more along the lines if I was just jealous that this RP was more popular than, say, one of mine. This is discussion, if heated discussion.

Also, if ALL I wanted was my opinion known, I probably wouldn't have put so much effort into this topic.

Alright, first part I could have chose a better word. Fair enough.

Second part, you shouldn't say that all you wanted to do was make your opinion known then. It's not like I haven't realized that yet.

But seriously. ALL sides have made their point! There is no more reason to continue this before it starts becoming an argument over the stupidest, and simplest things in the book. The major points have all been made. -None- of us can do anything more about it, as it is out of our hands practically. There really is no more need for this little dispute.

9. Each RP should have a specific final objective/scenario. This is to ensure that other people's RPs get a chance to be active.

Hotel breaks this one. It potentially dances with others, but since they're notexplicit I won't post them (lest I don't feel they are, anyway), and there is to my sight no official sanctioned rule that says Stickied RPs can break the rules and do whatever the hell they want.

I will admit this is true.

Alright then, why don't you go and tell the mods that all three of the sticky'd roleplays are breaking the rules?

-None of them- have a specific goal or endpoint.  That's why they were made stickies in the first place.

And also admit that this too is true.

[Robert Monroe]

Alright then, why don't you go and tell the mods that all three of the sticky'd roleplays are breaking the rules?

-None of them- have a specific goal or endpoint.  That's why they were made stickies in the first place.

So why is this not mentioned in the rules? Who sanctions these RPs? Why are they allowed to be created? What is the official statement on this? Is there even one? Do we all just accept these things as status quo? I'm calling malarky on this.

But seriously. ALL sides have made their point! There is no more reason to continue this before it starts becoming an argument over the stupidest, and simplest things in the book. The major points have all been made. -None- of us can do anything more about it, as it is out of our hands practically. There really is no more need for this little dispute.

If you feel you have said your mind with nothing more to add then feel free to stop reading/posting. The rest of us who feel obligated to keep going will do so.

[Ris Grestar]

So why is this not mentioned in the rules? Who sanctions these RPs? Why are they allowed to be created? What is the official statement on this? Is there even one? Do we all just accept these things as status quo? I'm calling malarky on this.

Again, if you so wish to, bring this up with the moderating team.  They were the ones who sticky'd them in the first place, and I'm sure they all know very well that none of them have specific goals/endpoints.

[Samantha Weltzin]

But seriously. ALL sides have made their point! There is no more reason to continue this before it starts becoming an argument over the stupidest, and simplest things in the book. The major points have all been made. -None- of us can do anything more about it, as it is out of our hands practically. There really is no more need for this little dispute.

New information keeps coming up. The discussion is over when there is a complete lack of new information or points. Just because you declare a discussion over doesn't make it over. That's why it's still going on.

[Fluxy]

If you feel you have said your mind with nothing more to add then feel free to stop reading/posting. The rest of us who feel obligated to keep going will do so.

Tis not that easy. Sure, I might have made my point, but that would be very stupid of me to just allow this to go past my eyes as well.

And we, the players in the hotel, have a small obligation to protect it, as we have much fun with it. How can something you are not even apart of cause so much feelings in you to make it feel you are obligated to try and put it out of commission? I know Milkey RP's, even if not in many of them really, but you, Robert, doesn't [At least not recently at all. Idk if you ever RP'd here]. Why is it you keep defending a side you don't even have much reason to claim anyways.?

New information keeps coming up. The discussion is over when there is a complete lack of new information or points. Just because you declare a discussion over doesn't make it over. That's why it's still going on.

Ah, but I was stating my own opinion. I never declared it over if you read it correctly.

[Arashikage]

Tis not that easy. Sure, I might have made my point, but that would be very stupid of me to just allow this to go past my eyes as well.

To add to this point, I completely agree.  I have been reading even though I said I was done, a subject like this just can't be ignored

[Robert Monroe]

Again, if you so wish to, bring this up with the moderating team.  They were the ones who sticky'd them in the first place, and I'm sure they all know very well that none of them have specific goals/endpoints.

Then I will.

Tis not that easy. Sure, I might have made my point, but that would be very stupid of me to just allow this to go past my eyes as well.

And we, the players in the hotel, have a small obligation to protect it, as we have much fun with it.

You are only as obligated as you let yourself to be. If you have nothing more to say, then theres nothing more for you to say. No shame in that. No need to just flail your arms around telling everyone to stop.

How can something you are not even apart of cause so much feelings in you to make it feel you are obligated to try and put it out of commission?

There are a lot of things I am not a part of, but they still stir feelings. You don't have to be actively involved. And I don't want it out of commission per se, I want it -fixed-.

I know Milkey RP's, even if not in many of them really, but you, Robert, doesn't [At least not recently at all. Idk if you ever RP'd here]. Why is it you keep defending a side you don't even have much reason to claim anyways.?

I don't RP on SFO because I hate its RP system. GMs have minimalist power, RP limitations are a drag, and in general nothing looks good to me. I have about 10 years of RPs under my belt, though.

As for why.... why not?