Corneria vs. Earth

[Guest DRL]

What, an alien civilization wouldn't have a time where religious powers were also the acting government?

We should not be talking about this here, because technically it is politics/religion... but:

1) Most of Europe had a greek-roman based religion, becase basically 93% of Europe was under Roman control.

2) At some point in history (I do not remember the exact time) the Roman Empire was divided between the "Western" and "Eastern" Roman Empires.

3) Constantine, the first Roman emperor to embrace christianism, aided another emperor in the "Eastern" empire´s civil war. Constantine helped to end it.

4) An assasination attempt is made. But it fails; the "traitor" is executed.

5) Constantine bans all religions which are not christian.

6) Christians (of this time) begin to supress everything that contradicts their religious beliefs. Science, other religions, ect.

7) Much of the knowledge is lost, because the people who had it were killed.

8) Years later, the society degenerates. The Dark Age has begun...

Hope that helps answer your question.

Go back to history, kick Constantine out of it, and come back. Earth will be a diferent palce. Phearps stranger, but indeed more technologically advanced.

[Vy'drach]

Not really, considering simply stating how one instance of it happening here doesn't say that it can or can't happen to another, extra-terrestrial civilization, we know nothing of Corneria's past history, but I say that its likely that there was a point in its timeline where faith and religion were held in higher esteem than scientific exploration, thus, there would be a dark ages on Corneria as well, but lets not turn this into a precise religious discussion, I merely asked about a general state.

[Guest DRL]

I aplogize then. I just wanted you to know the specific reason of Earth´s dark age.

I do not know if Corneria had or had not a dark age, but I do not believe that to be important in a military aspect...

[Vy'drach]

I was just saying there is a theory that alien civilizations would progress through the same, or comparable, transitional periods as Earth, starting with stone, then to bronze, or comparable, and so forth.

[Guest DRL]

I think it would depend in their anatomy, and the materials at that are available to them.

If you played Star Control II, you know what I mean.

[Vy'drach]

That's what I mean by "comparable," I'm not saying that Corneria has the copper and tin to make bronze, but I'm sure they have a metal with the same basic properties, high corrosion resistance and extremely durable and able to be made into a wicked cutting edge, if one desired, thus their version of the bronze age.

[Braux]

Human pride? Yeah... its my species, but really... Pride? I'm taking this from, yes, a standpoint of millitary techonology, ect. I was just intrested in what would happen in a war against the two forces, I've always thought about it. And I'm wondering what most other's views are.

---------

Okay... So I was gonna make a statement about hoody-wadda and all that n' stuff, but it appears that it went to something about furry chicks and that game, witch if anyone has a place other than steam to buy it, please tell me.

All I can say is that some attributes of the Cornerian forces would be unlikely. For example, why does the blaster have unlimited ammo, but the machine gun dosn't? They both act the same, but the only diffrence I see is that the machine "gun" fires a continuous spray, that is until you run out of ammo, I'm guessing its a balance issue. Starfox is a game, after all.

AS for the EMP, it would be effective against all Cornerian forces, infantry, tanks, aircraft, antiaircraft, communications, the like. As for the human, or "terrain" forces, the weapons used by modern soliders today. Wars have been fough without advanced techonology before, and I'm sure that some armies from strong nations do drills where they're prepared for any kind of EMP strike. Not to mention that such weapons can be fired and detonated into space, making orbital bombardment from Cornerian forces uneffective. (If they don't get shot down.) An EMP can be worked through, metals (like alunimum foil, lol) can protect communication gear, like radios, granted that afterwards they don't touch the metal thats conducting the charge... I could go on forever about this, so I'll stop.

EDIT: EMPs use a nuclear explosion to go off, so I guess thats a last resort option, or to take out orbital bombardment.

WAIT, There are NNEMP bombs, or charges, which are smaller than most EMPs, but still shut stuff down. One of those loaded into a cruise missle can disable a Cornerian drop point, camp, drop ship, or anything else that is important. I'm guessing EMPs could be a good way to wage the war.

Wow, I hope I said everything correctly, thats probably the most intelligent thing I've ever said... XD

I could go into homefield advantage, but nevermind.

Reverse engenerring is probably a seriously great idea, you covered that, so yeah...

[Vy'drach]

That counter-point is putting a lot of faith in an EMP being effective, we know nothing of their technology, and its a rather bold statement to say we know enough about how science and such works to assume that their technology would be affected by one, that was the point I was making about they likely went through the same phases as Earth, including the nuclear phase, and would thus know about EMPs, and very well could of either designed a different source of energy that would be unaffected, or a way to shield their equipment from ours. While several phases of their timeline would likely differ slightly from ours due to the unlikeliness of all the same compounds on Earth being there, nuclear fusion and fission were derived from stars, and I doubt their system's star (Solar), works different than other stars.

[Braux]

Huh, I guess so, then in that case, reversing technology is the best answer, just keep alive long enough to find a better solution to fight.

1) Unknown agression or hostility starts a war between the humans and cornerians.

2) Initial technological advantage, added to terran factionalism allows the cornerians some victories.

3) United Nations realizes that current forces are not capable of winnign the war, and creates a new defence force, one that would defend entire Earth and the Sol system. Every terran nation has to provide support for it, even if they can give very limited support, they must support it.

4) Earth scores some tactical victories, in which cornerian wreckages are succesfully recovered and researched, maily reverse-engineered.

5) Earth produces it´s own version of fighters. As the desings prove succesfull, Earth beggins the construction of it´s own carriers.

6) Earth secures Sol system and (if no diplomatic solution was found) prepares to invade the enemy system.

7) Earth scores victories all over Lylat. Planet after planet falls.

8) Corneria is forced to sing a peace treatry, in which it recognizes Earth´s idependence and territorial supremacy over Sol (and maybe farther).

9) Peace. And the beggining of a new era in space travel for Earth and it´s inhabitants.

DRL, You mapped it all out there...  :P

[Sabre]

Huh, I guess so, then in that case, reversing technology is the best answer, just keep alive long enough to find a better solution to fight.

DRL, You mapped it all out there... 

Indeed, but imo it falls apart at 7. Again. The logics are bad enough over a sea, imagine trying to mount a long term seige operation in space. Space travel is all about time and effeciantcy. Assume we aren't the most advanced creatures in the universe, the reason we haven't seen anything yet is because space in so mind bogglingly massive. You'd have to carry Men, Weapons, Air, Food, Beds, Fuel, Water and that's not counting people going space training or spending all their time being sick. (zero g makes the brain think your poisened in alot of people) Some people simply can't wrap their head around the conect of no 'up'.

Assumiong you can manage all that, re-enforcments and resupply won't be quick to arrive, and moral will be an issue because of the lack of comfort. Then there's the extreme cost. Again, all this stuff is expencive on earth, add in space tech that is even more expencive and you have problems.

[Braux]

True, true, but I guess what I should've said is that I was mainly looking at the part of defence, what the UN or whatever goverment does next is not im my control. But I'd say stay and keep playing defence until they are tired of fighting a war across the galaxy (or however far they are from us...). While doing so, build up on the technology left behind and begin researching long-term space transport,  cyrostasis or faster engines, ect.

[Vy'drach]

Another thing though, how completely can we reverse-engineer their tech, it may require compounds and materials not found on earth, but are so common in the Lylat system they could be used for simple things such as chairs or a toaster oven as well as powering or reinforcing their crafts or weapons.

[Guest FoXXX]

Another thing though, how completely can we reverse-engineer their tech, it may require compounds and materials not found on earth, but are so common in the Lylat system they could be used for simple things such as chairs or a toaster oven as well as powering or reinforcing their crafts or weapons.

Another reason we're screwed :)

[Asper Sarnoff]

Why would we have to re-engineer their tech to win? Believe it or not, there was wars before guns came as well. Some hundred years ago, swords, bows and arrows were more than enough to cover the earth in blood. Why should a AA-missile be any less deadly to a CDF fighter than to an F-22? It's not like they have everlasting shield techonology, like in "War of the worlds".

Weapons of mass destruction are a no-go. The Cornerians are a peacefull people, if not, then they wouldn't have been steamrolled so completely by an armada later defeated by four guys. It would be like the cold war. With as many nukes buried around the globe as it is, a WMD attack would have triggered a catastrophe for both sides.

To sum it all up from a militaristic viewpoint, the Cornerians are wastly outnumbered, have little to no experience of waging war, have slightly better technology, but nothing that would stop them from being shot down, are fighting on our home-turf against one of the most warlike and ferocious races one can imagine.

[Guest FoXXX]

Why would we have to re-engineer their tech to win? Believe it or not, there was wars before guns came as well. Some hundred years ago, swords, bows and arrows were more than enough to cover the earth in blood. Why should a AA-missile be any less deadly to a CDF fighter than to an F-22? It's not like they have everlasting shield techonology, like in "War of the worlds".

Weapons of mass destruction are a no-go. The Cornerians are a peacefull people, if not, then they wouldn't have been steamrolled so completely by an armada later defeated by four guys. It would be like the cold war. With as many nukes buried around the globe as it is, a WMD attack would have triggered a catastrophe for both sides.

To sum it all up from a militaristic viewpoint, the Cornerians are wastly outnumbered, have little to no experience of waging war, have slightly better technology, but nothing that would stop them from being shot down, are fighting on our home-turf against one of the most warlike and ferocious races one can imagine.

They bring in Star Fox, we're finished.

[Asper Sarnoff]

They bring in Star Fox, we're finished.

Four guys? Please. They may be good, but in prolonged conflicts, man-power wins.

[Guest FoXXX]

Four guys? Please. They may be good, but in prolonged conflicts, man-power wins.

4 guys, 1 girl, and a computer Also when Krystal shows up, everyone surrenders...

[Mr. Foxer]

Why are we comparing a fictional planet and even a fictional universe to a real one? Anything can happen in Star Fox/Lylat System because it's not real, of course our technology would seem less advanced because their technology is all just science fiction. The Lylat System could be the perfect peaceful universe if the developers wanted. No one can control what happens on Earth each day. There is no argument.

[Vy'drach]

Granted, but its still fun to debate, the thrust and parry of the verbal joust. You are right, there is no argument, there is a debate, there is a difference.

[Sableye]

Earth had been in countless wars.

I could name all of them.

We had been in more wars in the past century than Corneria.

[Sabre]

Earth had been in countless wars.

I could name all of them.

We had been in more wars in the past century than Corneria.

You could name all of them? Bloody hell, I can't even name all the british ones, let alone all the stuff in africa and middle east.

[Guest DRL]

Costs would not be something to worry about, assuming research has been completed succesfully.

Basically what I mean with "adapting" is creating terran-based vessels with resources that can be found in Earth. The cost, remember that I pointed out the need for a multi-national force. It could produce additional fighters and/or adapted tech and sell it. It would provide enought funding.

As for Zero g? I do not think inside conerians ships there is zero-g. Assuming that we adapt their desings, we would also adapt their gravity-generators and such.

And as for point 7) falling apart, remember that I never said *how much time* it would take to win. I said we would be winning by now.

[Sabre]

Doesn't matter. A space war is still a massive undertaking.

[Sableye]

Doesn't matter. A space war is still a massive undertaking.

I don't even think we can build advanced technology just for a space war.

[Guest FoXXX]

I don't even think we can build advanced technology just for a space war.

Even if we could we would still lose...