The orginazation of the Lylat System...

[CR4CK3RW0LF]

@DZ, its kind, of stupid, but your right, rules are rules...

it only persuades to confuse even more XD

dang, im being patient, but i cant help but wonder where that D&D thing is now... waiting patiently for Fira...

[Fira-Astrali]

dang, im being patient, but i cant help but wonder where that D&D thing is now... waiting patiently for Fira...

im looking for it. i found it three-ish years ago, and ive had a multitude of comps since then.

[Guest Julius Quasar]

I agree with Fira. That the system is called Lylat doesn't mean that's the name of the central star. Lylat could be the name of the deity most of the systems population believe in. (I've wanted to make a topic dicussing Lylat's religion(s) for a time now. But it crosses to much with the forum rule that says no discussion of religion.)

I'm looking foreward to seeing what she can come up with after looking around a little.

Thomas Dracos hypothesis is also quite good.

^ this.  I always wondered myself why exactly they called it the Lylat system. 

Also, I think the Lylat System itself is in the Milky Way Galaxy (That's what the original SNES Game Manual said). :wink:

[Zicka]

There, the order of the planets according to various sources.

Order from Closest to Solar and onward: Venom, Titania, Macbeth, Corneria, fortuna, Katina, Aquas, and Zoness.

And Solar is a Star, despite what some mistranslated Japanese might say, It has shown all the properties of a sun including freaking miniature solar flares you have to dodge in Starfox 64. That is a classic case of what is shown taking priority over what is said.

[Guest FoXXX]

I'm pretty sure it's a planet :P

[Guest Matt macdowel]

this is video games anything can happen it doesn't matter if corniera is thriving with life if its the farthest away

this is video game and your in control if your the develper

[Thomas Draco]

And Solar is a Star, despite what some mistranslated Japanese might say, It has shown all the properties of a sun including freaking miniature solar flares you have to dodge in Starfox 64. That is a classic case of what is shown taking priority over what is said.

Except that stars also don't have rocks blasting out of nowhere, and that's on Solar on SF64 and Command.

Solar =/= Star

[CR4CK3RW0LF]

@Draco and Zicka, i still say its in the air, its kind of a coinflip away for me, both proving evidence to the contrary makes it very tough to decide...

@Matt, that will be my excuse when i stop flipping my coin XD

@fira, aright, at least a status report is nice, i could end up just googling it though...

do you guys think it might be cool if there is some kind of solar/thermal plant on the surface of solar, despite wether or not its a star, it would make for some interesting battle scenes in my mind, kind of like that battle between obi wan and anakin on that one magma planet, only 100000 times hotter!!! freakin sweet in my opinion XD

of course, reality kinda has to crash on my parade, for if you step one foot outside, your ash... maybe even deader than ash... like ashes on fire with lava sauce... 

it would be within the realms of possibility if it were a planet, but thats still under speculation, we still got other planets to speculate on guys! what about the new venom?  or Neo Venom, as i like to call it, which might be a little too cliche.. but again thats debateable.. thats why were here right?

[Zicka]

Except that stars also don't have rocks blasting out of nowhere, and that's on Solar on SF64 and Command.

Solar =/= Star

As explained in the guide, since these "rocks" bear energy rings when shot at, It's likely that they are melted chunks of ships that got pulled into the gravity well. =/

[Thomas Draco]

what about the new venom?  or Neo Venom, as i like to call it, which might be a little too cliche.. but again thats debateable.. thats why were here right?

As in the Venom after Command when it is purified? Or a completely different planet? If it's the 1st one, it'll be a Corneria Mk. 2, since people flock there in the Dashdross ending.

And your idea about the energy thing on Solar could work, as if I'm not mistaken, during Command, there was that boss of the level that was heat-proof and could dive into the lava. What if, that craft could harvest the thermal energy of the planet's magma? That's something to think about.

Also, to Zicka, if they were melted, why are they rocks? And the only reason they puut energy rings there is to provide players with a source of health during the drain on Solar.

[Kalikimaka]

There are no orbits. Everything just kinda floats around nebulously. Anything goes. What sun?

[Thomas Draco]

There are no orbits. Everything just kinda floats around nebulously. Anything goes. What sun?

You obviously haven't researched astrophysics, right?

[Zicka]

Also, to Zicka, if they were melted, why are they rocks? And the only reason they puut energy rings there is to provide players with a source of health during the drain on Solar.

Blackened chunks of melted hull all mangled together can look pretty 'rock-like'. Makes the arbitrary source of health less arbitrary when it explains why the 'rocks' contain something useable to a ship's systems.

[Thomas Draco]

Blackened chunks of melted hull all mangled together can look pretty 'rock-like'. Makes the arbitrary source of health less arbitrary when it explains why the 'rocks' contain something useable to a ship's systems.

Keyword: melted. If it was melted, it wouldn't become a rock, it would become part of the magma. Once again, the rings were put there for gameplay purposes only, not because of anything else. Plus, your arguement could work for both star Solar and planet Solar, so what's the point of arguing?

[Kalikimaka]

You obviously haven't researched astrophysics, right?

Every genius was heckled in his own time.

Lylat chooses not to follow the laws of the universe. They seceded.

[CR4CK3RW0LF]

@Kalikimaka, as Draco has stated, Astrophysics has advanced pretty far beyond the 90's, most modern systems have to obtain some kind of revolution or orbit around a central mass thats greater than the masses surrounding it. usually some form of star. planets also exhibit this phenomenon with their moons, it also explains the changes in the tide depending on the position of the moon related to earth, the moon is creates an influence on the oceans of the earth... im not entirely sure if im correct on this, i think i watched some kind of documentary on the discovery channel XD

@everyone, while the topic of solar is still for debate, i wish to kind of branch/fork this topic in another direction, we still have to pick up the pieces of namco's game design team... starfox command is kind of to blame as well.. do you guys consider Eludard to be a planet in the lylat system? or do you agree with the wiki in saying it evolved into zonnes or katina or something.... where does sauria fit into the mix? how does sauria's gravitational/electromagnetic force work? is it science or magic? does Sauria coming into contact with a more advanced species break a code of conduct? (IE culture shock...)

what about the Sargasso Hideout? should it stay located somewhere in the asteroid field (meteo)? how bout the arrangements of Dash's Venomian Forces? how should the innocent bystanders residing on venom react to this new threat? surely some must oppose the thought of another Lylat war. perhaps a rouge counterforce? what about the apparoids? are they really gone?

i wish to revive the apparoid homeworld despite the fact that it was completely destroyed, should i do this? (dont want to spoil any plots im devealoping so trust me when i say it will be for the greater good )

i want to kind of spread the topic a bit farther, that should be the fuel for the fire  :wink:

[Kalikimaka]

Astrophysics has advanced pretty far beyond the 90's, most modern systems have to obtain some kind of revolution or orbit around a central mass thats greater than the masses surrounding it. usually some form of star. planets also exhibit this phenomenon with their moons, it also explains the changes in the tide depending on the position of the moon related to earth, the moon is creates an influence on the oceans of the earth

Planets don't move. They remain equidistant and constantly in a straight line, like on grade school posters of the 9 8 9 planets. Only Earth has a moon, and the oceans move because of all the whales splashing around inside it.

[DZComposer]

There shouldn't be debate. What's canon is canon.

Name another source that calls Solar a star. I mentioned several, including an in-game source (which should trump any document), as calling it a planet.

I used to think it was a star myself, until I read everything else.

[Thomas Draco]

@ CR4CK3RWOLF: Elucard tehcnically isn't canon (SF2 and all), and if you're citing the Starfox Wiki, that place sometimes is more fanon than canon.

As for the Sagrasso Hideout, it's stationed in the Asteroid Belt, and it's probably constantly moving, due to it being a criminal hideout and all.

As for the Aparoid Homeworld, Apopia I call it, is probably located orbiting the sister star of the Lylat System (as seen in SF 2's title graphic), or another close-but-unrelated star. I have my own plots for stories as well, and by that I mean that my OC's homeworld (Draconis) is also from there and I placed Cernia in that system too. Now I bet you're thinking, "If they orbited a sister (or close) star, why didn't they know about Apopia?" My response to this is that even in binary systems, stars are far apart, light-years even. The only way to possibly traverse that distance is to use the Orbital Gate systems that helped in Assault.

@Kalikimaka: Ellipses =/= Straight lines...

@DZComposer: That's my thought, exactly.

BTW: If I ever get my main computer running again, I'll work in Celestia (an open-source 3D planetarium software) to make a model of the Lylat System.

[CR4CK3RW0LF]

@Draco, im gonna google that once i get home XD, now im too interested to pass that up!

also i know that Eludard isnt technically cannon, but im including starfox 2 basically since the rom community has revived it into a playable game in english and everything!

@DZ, i would agree with you, but again, this is all fantasy... im not going to truly set it in stone.. but of course i will try to make as much of it as i can before i start throwing in some silly putty to fill the gaps XD

but i digress... i like the fact that this topic is still going on, it stimulates interest, and who knows, maybe at some point we will have a lylat system that may or may not look anything like the official, but it WILL be functional and hopefully offer some form of gameplay variety for future fangame devealopers. i truly want this to be a union between fanmade and canon ideas, hell with both the ideas could stretch beyond the limits of canon! of course i might be asking a little too much, but still, a guy can dream cant he?

Kalikimaka@*in epic voice* GET OUT OF MY TOPIC TROLL!!!! *raises master sword and pierces the crown of trolls head* may you never live within my topic again!   

@draco again... Sagrasso might have its own orbit then? that would be an interesting idea... i kinda dont want to get into my own ideas about the apparoid homeworld because i want it to be a suprise.. but please converse some more on the topic... again i ask, did some apparoids devealop a last minute immunity? what about Fox's home planet, papetoon? where does that fit in? since it was from the comics, do you consider it canon?

and about the distance between systems, i kinda like the ideas in spore... has anyone ever played spore? of course its a little watered down being EA and all.. but at least it gives us some idea, hell ive seen systems in that game with 2 stars! but of course if you want to dismiss it since its probably not really scientific and is more based on entertainment.. go right ahead and ignore i even brought it up XD

oh and what do you think of the counterforce idea? i kind of like it XD i really want it to be about starfox as being what they are titled as, mercinaries.. of course Starfox has high standards and goes for the cleaner jobs (military engagement, community relations, helping the elderly XD), while starwolf is a take all jobs no matter how gruesome kind of team (IE assasinations, hit-men, and thieves) of course this is a watered down version of my ideas, but please, input is all i ask for  :D

[Wolf OConner]

I just assume Miyamoto was a lazy bastard and didnt have time to draw a sun and orbit paths and blah blah blah

[Guest Matt macdowel]

I just assume Miyamoto was a lazy bastard and didnt have time to draw a sun and orbit paths and blah blah blah

you do realize miyoto only help make it there was another guy who really started it and no it was not dylan

[Kalikimaka]

Name another source that calls Solar a star. I mentioned several, including an in-game source (which should trump any document), as calling it a planet.

I don't think there's really a "canon" as such. That's a gimick of scifi I've never been too keen on, because when you have a strict set of rules, there's no real innovation, and there's no more fun. Like if the map of the SuperNES game dictated the rest of the games, we'd be out a few good levels.

GET OUT OF MY TOPIC TROLL!!!!

Hey, I was GONNA try and give my real opinion! But then Draco started taking me seriously and gave me no choice but to keep milking the joke. What would YOU have done in that situation? That's what I thought!

[DZComposer]

A canon isn't necessarily a set of rules. Basically, it is just the established story and descriptions of things. Nintendo can change it if they want though what's called a retcon, for example "Dinosaur Planet" is now "Sauria" since SFAs.

I'm not saying if you do a fanwork that you should stick to the canon either. By definition your work isn't canon. Plus, look at Fred's series. He doesn't follow the canon much at all, but there is an understanding that the work is NOT canon.

It's when people start pushing things that either they made up or have been retconned out as official fact that I have an issue.

[Kalikimaka]

A canon isn't necessarily a set of rules. Basically, it is just the established story and descriptions of things. Nintendo can change it if they want though what's called a retcon, for example "Dinosaur Planet" is now "Sauria" since SFAs.

Yeah, but I don't even think the creators put much more thought into Starfox than any Mario or Zelda game. Just imagine someone trying to set up a canon for those. In these games, "canon" is the main villain being angry enough about the last game to look for vengeance in the sequel.

Plus, with my background in Star Wars, I've seen how the '90s invention of canon has really strangled all the comics and junk. These guys feel like everything has to be a reference to what someone else wrote, and the writers become hellbent on making a consistent "believable" universe instead of coming up with new ideas, fun stories and characters. It's actually a surprisingly popular trend in scifi now (except Dr Who, they seem pretty loose about following 50 years worth of stories, aside from bringing back old monsters a few times a season).

With Solar, if they say it's a planet, I'll buy it, but it's not such a stretch for me to call it a cartoon version of a sun, like the 64 player's guide says.