How do you feel that artist continue to make Krystal yiff?

[Vrance Movado]

I really hate how some artist start to twist a innocent creature into to such a horrible thing. If they really are fans why would they do that? That's a discrace or disgrace (sorry I really can't spell) to her and her innocent character. How do you respond to this dear fellow friend?

[Samantha Weltzin]

Heh. I guess I already told you how I feel in the topic where this came up. I'll discuss it here from now on, though.

[Vrance Movado]

Yes I know how you feel and I understand. This is were people can express their feelings towards this subject.

[Guest DRL]

Like I said before, I just do not like it. I do not feel like she is out-of-character, but rather as out-of-her-personality. So far in every Krystal yiff I have seen she does not seem to have the same look in the eyes that non-yiff Krystal has. I would even say she has a 'dark-tabern' atmostphere around her.

[Mr. Krystal]

All activity portrayed by fans, good and bad, that is not a repeat of something in-game is simply not true. It doesn't really exist, and it is perfectly acceptable to say that "that's not Krystal." That's the way I feel about it. I don't think it's Krystal when I see someone drawing her doing something she wouldn't do.

Krystal was designed to be attractive. People who are attractive are not destined to be sluts or whatever, despite what so many like to believe. Sure, it's often a temptation, but by no means a requirement.

[Kursed]

100% agreed with you there  Mr.K it's simply just not Krystal.

[Sarita]

Innocent? It has been established in canon that she's vengeful and (heaven forbid) human, whether you like it or not. You shouldn't put her on a pedestal of unrealistic expectations. Sex is natural. If you expect her to have babies, she must have sex, and be sexy. Sorry, that's how sex works. Sex also changes people, it releases the animal instinct.

I also agree with Mr. K, but I don't agree with people saying "that's not Krystal" when she's as underdeveloped as she is. We don't know that she isn't a sexy woman. We didn't know she was a vengeful girl until Command. I think that until they stop development of Star Fox we should assume nothing.

[Guest DRL]

Innocent? It has been established in canon that she's vengeful and (heaven forbid) human, whether you like it or not. You shouldn't put her on a pedestal of unrealistic expectations. Sex is natural. If you expect her to have babies, she must have sex, and be sexy. Sorry, that's how sex works. Sex also changes people, it releases the animal instinct.

What I said, was that I did not like people drawing her as naked and some random guy, say myself, being seeing that. Did I ever mention sex? NO! I did not. Sex is something natural, and there is nothing wrong with it unless you are a pervert who thinks of girls as sexual items, as the people who draw her naked seem to do.

And Sissy, as far as I know, the only situations were she is manipulative, is in Command.

Command is non-canon, so there is simply no proof of her being vengeful/manipulative/human in Adventures/Assault or anywhere else.

And Mr. K is right, and if she does something OCC, either for good or ill, it is simply not her, and therefore it is perfectly possible for me to say : "That is only furry girl who looks like Krystal, but is not her". And like he said, just because she looks good she does not have to be simply there for sex.

[Samantha Weltzin]

Innocent? It has been established in canon that she's vengeful and (heaven forbid) human, whether you like it or not. You shouldn't put her on a pedestal of unrealistic expectations. Sex is natural. If you expect her to have babies, she must have sex, and be sexy. Sorry, that's how sex works. Sex also changes people, it releases the animal instinct.

I also agree with Mr. K, but I don't agree with people saying "that's not Krystal" when she's as underdeveloped as she is. We don't know that she isn't a sexy woman. We didn't know she was a vengeful girl until Command. I think that until they stop development of Star Fox we should assume nothing.

Holy cow. Your post makes me wonder if my subconscious took over, started an alternate account, and posted this just so I wouldn't be the only one saying it.

All activity portrayed by fans, good and bad, that is not a repeat of something in-game is simply not true. It doesn't really exist, and it is perfectly acceptable to say that "that's not Krystal." That's the way I feel about it. I don't think it's Krystal when I see someone drawing her doing something she wouldn't do.

Krystal was designed to be attractive. People who are attractive are not destined to be sluts or whatever, despite what so many like to believe. Sure, it's often a temptation, but by no means a requirement.

That's a reasonable way of looking at it. I do something similar, saying "Krystal isn't real, and therefore is malleable," but I will of course admit that some portrayals are closer to what we have seen of her so far than others. It's when people take an idealized look at her and then say that others are wrong for holding an opinion contrary to their "perfect" concept of the character that I start to get a little ruffled under the feathers.

And since I'm -pretty- sure Mr. Krystal's second part was in response to what I wrote, I'll clarify something: I don't personally think Krystal is a "slut." She shows a few tendencies toward that, such as what I described at the end of Adventures, but she also shows modesty and is standoffish to overt passes at her. The problem is that her personality changes from game to game and, in the case of Adventures, even within the same game, so we really can't tell what's going on in her mind at all, or which tendencies she "typically" exhibits, so to say anything about her sexual habits one way or the other, especially in a game that barely addresses sex at all, would be making a leap of faith without much evidence to back it.

[Sarita]

What I said, was that I did not like people drawing her as naked and some random guy, say myself, being seeing that. Did I ever mention sex? NO! I did not. Sex is something natural, and there is nothing wrong with it unless you are a pervert who thinks of girls as sexual items, as the people who draw her naked seem to do.

And Sissy, as far as I know, the only situations were she is manipulative, is in Command.

Command is non-canon, so there is simply no proof of her being vengeful/manipulative/human in Adventures/Assault or anywhere else.

And Mr. K is right, and if she does something OCC, either for good or ill, it is simply not her, and therefore it is perfectly possible for me to say : "That is only furry girl who looks like Krystal, but is not her". And like he said, just because she looks good she does not have to be simply there for sex.

Besides the fact that I wasn't addressing you directly, and was in fact addressing the argument as a whole,

where are you getting that Command is non-canon from? I'm not finding that anywhere.

Like I said, I wasn't talking to you specifically when I mentioned sex.

[Matrilwood]

In my opinion, any character in existent as popular and attractive as Krystal is bound to have some unsavory artwork drawn about her.

I believe that fanart or anything created by fans captures the real heart and soul of a character. Because in reality, they exist in the minds of the audience. A creator can shape her, and bring her into existence in the first place. But once a character is released into the media she becomes a living breathing organism.

[Steve]

I told to myself not to post here...but I just couldn't resist, and I'll probably go global on this.

People, she's a game character, sure, you might be a super fan of her and all, that's ok, but she, without any doubts,can't  become shielded from rule 34 of the internet. She was designed to look attractive, whether this was to attract anthro fans or not, it really doesn't matter. There're a lot of people out there that "appreciate" artistic nudes of characters, there're also the people that like yiff and all that stuff, and there're people out there that just like the art because it's art, that's how the world and humans roll. I really don't get  the "NO YOU ARE KILLING HER, NO YIFF, ARRRG " campaigns. Artists will keep drawing her in that way if they feel like, whether you like it or not. Like Mr Krystal said, just act like if that character is not her at all, and deal with it.

Krystal is just a character that nintendo made, she is not all that innocent and stuff, she came from the mind of a random person and she will change if the development team feel like changing her. Ignorance is a bliss, but seriously  , love the game for what it is, not for what others make it seem.

[Guest FoXXX]

I told to myself not to post here...but I just couldn't resist, and I'll probably go global on this.

People, she's a game character, sure, you might be a super fan of her and all, that's ok, but she, without any doubts,can't  become shielded from rule 34 of the internet. She was designed to look attractive, whether this was to attract anthro fans or not, it really doesn't matter. There're a lot of people out there that "appreciate" artistic nudes of characters, there're also the people that like yiff and all that stuff, and there're people out there that just like the art because it's art, that's how the world and humans roll. I really don't get why the "NO YOU ARE KILLING HER, NO YIFF, ARRRG " campaigns. Artists will keep drawing her in that way if they feel like, whether you like it or not. Like Mr Krystal said, just act like if that character is not her at all, and deal with it.

Krystal is just a character that nintendo made, she is not all that innocent and stuff, she came from the mind of a random person and she will change if the development team feel like changing her. Ignorance is a bliss, but seriously  , love the game for what it is, not for what others make it seem.

Well said.

[Guest DRL]

Okay, I have to agree with you not directly targeting me, but...

where are you getting that Command is non-canon from? I'm not finding that anywhere.

There was a thread right here in SFO.

Who the crap said Command wasn't cannon?

Where DZ came to the rescue and comfirmed that, at least, *MOST* of SFC was not cannon.

I told to myself not to post here...but I just couldn't resist, and I'll probably go global on this.

People, she's a game character, sure, you might be a super fan of her and all, that's ok, but she, without any doubts,can't  become shielded from rule 34 of the internet. She was designed to look attractive, whether this was to attract anthro fans or not, it really doesn't matter. There're a lot of people out there that "appreciate" artistic nudes of characters, there're also the people that like yiff and all that stuff, and there're people out there that just like the art because it's art, that's how the world and humans roll. I really don't get  the "NO YOU ARE KILLING HER, NO YIFF, ARRRG " campaigns. Artists will keep drawing her in that way if they feel like, whether you like it or not. Like Mr Krystal said, just act like if that character is not her at all, and deal with it.

Krystal is just a character that nintendo made, she is not all that innocent and stuff, she came from the mind of a random person and she will change if the development team feel like changing her. Ignorance is a bliss, but seriously  , love the game for what it is, not for what others make it seem.

You are right. I will get myself something to drink and cool down.

[Sabre]

I told to myself not to post here...but I just couldn't resist, and I'll probably go global on this.

People, she's a game character, sure, you might be a super fan of her and all, that's ok, but she, without any doubts,can't  become shielded from rule 34 of the internet. She was designed to look attractive, whether this was to attract anthro fans or not, it really doesn't matter. There're a lot of people out there that "appreciate" artistic nudes of characters, there're also the people that like yiff and all that stuff, and there're people out there that just like the art because it's art, that's how the world and humans roll. I really don't get  the "NO YOU ARE KILLING HER, NO YIFF, ARRRG " campaigns. Artists will keep drawing her in that way if they feel like, whether you like it or not. Like Mr Krystal said, just act like if that character is not her at all, and deal with it.

Krystal is just a character that nintendo made, she is not all that innocent and stuff, she came from the mind of a random person and she will change if the development team feel like changing her. Ignorance is a bliss, but seriously  , love the game for what it is, not for what others make it seem.

Pretty much the same as the Krystal rights thread. Same deal.

Personally, I don't give a toss. That said, I would like to see how you feel about more abstract fetishes. A couple of times here midriff fans hae turned up, and in the world of crappy poser art, her feet have turned up before as well. Let's be honest, these are both clearly visable for Adventures so that argument could be made she treating people who are into that.

[Steve]

And anyways, what's the deal with her being Innocent?, if command wasn't cannon, then that means Krystal is still one of the most underdeveloped characters on Star Fox. On adventures she seriously acts without thinking and looks like a random naive girl  (before final fight scene, anyone?). On Assault, at least she thinks before acting, but she's still in the fancy fog of war when it comes to personality, so why assume she's something she really isn't when the only game that proves to put her some personality is "non-cannon?"

[Matrilwood]

@Steve

It just goes to show that the fans of Krystal don't love her just for looks, so they get upset when someone portrays her in a vulgar and abusive manner.

In contrast many of Ivy's fans (Soul Caliber) only see the physical side and really don't care about the character herself.

[Steve]

@Steve

It just goes to show that the fans of Krystal don't love her just for looks, so they get upset when someone portrays her in a vulgar and abusive manner.

In contrast many of Ivy's fans (Soul Caliber) only see the physical side and really don't care about the character herself.

I pretty much meant it overall, love for the looks or for the small amount of personality, it's the same, people also write fanfics, and as art, it has its dark side, so at the end, everyone has a different perspective of the character since she can be whatever you want her to be, make it "true" to the fandom or just fantasy.

[Guest DRL]

You know what? I simply do not care about this anymore.

I will just forget that this thread (and several sections along Krysal´s rights thread) even existed.

I think it is the best thing I can do, seriously.

Thanks to this I declared myself to ignore one person, and it´s was about to be two.

That just gives me the "I do not belong here" feel.

Heck,

@Steve

It just goes to show that the fans of Krystal don't love her just for looks, so they get upset when someone portrays her in a vulgar and abusive manner.

In contrast many of Ivy's fans (Soul Caliber) only see the physical side and really don't care about the character herself.

That is what I think, but there will allways be people portraying her that way,

I pretty much meant it overall, love for the looks or for the small amount of personality, it's the same, people also write fanfics, and as art, it has its dark side, so at the end, everyone has a different perspective of the character since she can be whatever you want her to be, make it "true" to the fandom or just fantasy.

You said it. So...

The best think I can do is think about what Mr. Krystal said: It is not real because it does not happen in-game, and that is all. Has she got an inoccent look in her eyes to me? Not to you? Who knows? Maybe in some years I become a supporter of such things myself? (Which, I hope not to become...)... Fine wathever the case, I no longer care.

Now if you excuse me, I will do myself a favor and get that cool drink...

[Vy'drach]

I have refrained from posting in this topic until I could get at least a somewhat connected train of thought on this, and so I hope I can explain myself without sounding like an extremist in any direction on this matter. Now then, Samantha, you said in the topic of owning Krystal's rights that innocent minded people tend to become naked more due to the fact of viewing nothing wrong with it, this is true, but there is a difference between being naked and some of the situations portrayed in yiff, many of those situations haunt my mind to this day, and not in a good way, and Krystal was not the one in the picture. Artistic nudity to me is perfectly acceptable, due to the fact that, in my opinion, the point of it is not erotic please or to incite it, but to show the beauty in creation. I happen to find the human body beautiful and fascinating, even though I tend to dislike humanity as a whole, but the body itself is amazing, and I enjoy seeing it, and not just the "naughty" parts. I often look at my hands, which I have not been able to find any great potential in, and I see amazing works of art, I open and close them, seeing the muscles, tendons, and blood vessels. I move my fingers and see the dexterity that a hand possesses, even one such as mine, and can't help but wonder at the quality that must be in those of a concert pianist, or a surgeon. I seemed to have drifted a little here, so I will connect the two and continue with the original point. If it were something as simple as artistic nudity, I wouldn't have a problem with it, I can not say that I would necessarily enjoy it, but it would not bother me. Nudity itself is not the problem, after all, one must become naked to change their cloths, clean themselves, and at least partially to use the bathroom, which are natural things. And sex itself is not the problem either, it too is a natural and beautiful thing, and I am not talking of only the physical portion of it. The example of Krystal becoming a mom was brought up, that is a good point, I am fairly convinced that it won't be the story chosen for the next Star Fox game, but I could see it being something that is revealed throughout the game. Yes, that does mean that she would be knowledgeable and have participated in sex, but in a way that, to me, falls under the natural and beautiful definition of it. It is when such a thing becomes corrupted and used in other ways that it bothers me, such as the times I stated when one becomes naked, I am sure that there is art out there that portrays here in each situation, and if it has not been put to paper, someone has thought about it, as all three are a form of fetish, and I believe they are in fact under the same fetish of voyeurism, which promotes illegal activities such as being a "peeping Tom."

Essentially, I do not refuse that people have the right to view and create such images, unless otherwise stated by Nintendo, same as I can not refuse that a tomatoe is edible and nutritious. But, I do not like the taste of tomatoes, and as such, I do not partake of them, they make me gag and want to vomit. In the same sense, I do not like the stain on my mind that images such as that of Krystal creates, and I do not like the feeling of depression and nausea they instill upon me, and as such, I do not view them. And to be clear, the fact that it exists does not depress me, but that to me, it is an indicator and reminder of the degradation of society.

And of course, this is my opinion only, you are each entitled to your own views.

And I know I did not touch every subject, I will have to view and create counter-points for those.

[Guest DRL]

Before I completely abandon this topic, I will like to say,  Vydrach, that I completely agree with you.

You are definetly better than me at explaining things, and you have earned completely my respects for that.

[Samantha Weltzin]

I'll omit your quote, Vydrarch, for brevity's sake, but I'm sure this reply'll be clear and easy enough to understand without it.

You know what's funny? We agree. I said in the post you were referring to that an "innocent" probably wouldn't participate in the "kinky stuff," due to lack of knowledge or reason for it. That's the kind of thing you implied you hated, and I tend to dislike that form of thing as well. I don't get sick over it, but I do try to avoid it. Of course, there's a lot worse stuff out there than just kinky sex. Refresh the Fur Affinity front page with the mature filter off for a quick reminder of just how weird and gross art can get (and no, I don't actually recommend doing so).

As for the degradation of society...well, I'll agree that the U.S. has degraded, especially sexually, but a lot of that is because people are finally rebelling against the Puritan prohibition of sexual expression and fun. Not to say it excuses the negative effects, but that's one of the major causes. Regardless, that's a topic for a different thread elsewhere.

[Vy'drach]

My thanks to you for that, DRL, and to Samantha, Indeed, but even kinky things are not really the problem, I believe that everyone has a fetish, I am personally a sucker for thigh high stockings, which I believe is a fetish. Nothing wrong with it, however, it's just an article of clothing that I find particularly attractive, so what? Anyway, to me, it's not the act, but the purpose that makes something wrong. I'm sure if Krystal were real, she'd have things that she's more partial to, everyone has things that they find attractive, and again, it's not the act, but the purpose. I have no mental image of Krystal being an unmarried virgin for the duration of her use as a character, I just do not like seeing or hearing about her as a raving, sex addicted maniac. In fact, it actually made me feel uncomfortable to type the words in such proximity to each other.

And my earlier post wasn't a counter-argument to yours entirely, but merely my attempt to make my thoughts viewed in a less broad-spectrumed way.

Also, a good example of me saying the difference between artistic nudity and other ways she has been portrayed is this. I wouldn't have a problem seeing a redo of the Birth of Aphrodite (Actually Venus, but I'm Greek so bear with me) paintings by Botticelli, Bouguereau, or Cabanel, with Krystal in place of Aphrodite. I'd find it an interesting take on classic art, and find it strangely appropriate considering how many hearts Krystal has apparently stolen.

[Matrilwood]

@Vydrach

I agree with you mostly. Although I think that this suppresses and prevents "Peeping toms" and stuff like that, even the stuff we're not even allowed to talk about, and to me the idea of "Artistic Nudity" is preposterous (Naked people are naked people, their is no gray area there).

Even though I appreciate nudity and the way it corrupts, some of the rubbish that comes out these days is just horrendous. The results for the most popular artist right now is VERY disturbing.

I think it just got worse when the Europeans discovered Japanese Vulgar. Most of the stuff that comes out of Japan would be illegal if it was not hand drawn. That and the internet. In the old days, if you wanted to be an artist, you had to pass it through censorship before you could distribute it. Now its free rain.

On the subject of fetishes, the Japanese Art form was actually a good thing. Not all Fetishes are legal, but if its hand drawn, nothing is illegal. (Unless your in Germany and you draw the Swastika, but that's on a tangent)

[Vy'drach]

Naked people are naked people, that is true, no way around it, but the intent and purpose of it is different. As I stated, in my opinion, artistic nudity is when it isn't used for erotic purposes, but to show the beauty in the human form, or to be symbolic. Such as the Thinker, and I am sure art critics would try and argue this with me from now until the end of time, but I see the purpose of him being naked as a way to say he is in his truest form.

And I'd continue the discussion about the peeping Toms and such, but let us not push the bounds of what can be discussed, I have a feeling we have been dancing on a razor's edge since this topic was posted.