So, who's in here?

[Sabre]

With the smell of fresh paint and new carpet in the air, and the posability of glitches (thanks to steve for letting me in. Just don't trust him during vampire season), who's in here?

["User"]

Present heh

[Guest Starguy24]

Starguy24, reporting in.

[Steve]

With the smell of fresh paint and new carpet in the air, and the posability of glitches (thanks to steve for letting me in. Just don't trust him during vampire season), who's in here?

Oh yes, I'll be hunting you all when the time comes  , but for now, enjoy this subforum. We might make some divisions later, depending on the topic needs.

[Kursed]

I'm here but don't expect me to be here a lot especailly if I have a problem with discussions here.

[Sideways]

I'm here, I'll be browsing like I do the rest of the forums.

[Star Fox Runner]

I've been let in, I'll post here depending on the subject matter.

[Dermot]

I'm here...  I want to believe that I'm not the reason this board now exists.

I'm a tad unnerved that most of the threads moved here from elsewhere are threads that I originally started, and in most cases never intended them to be mature. :lol:

[Sideways]

No, I think it was in the works before you resurfaced.  :cool:

[Dermot]

No, I think it was in the works before you resurfaced. 

Okay, just...this isn't my playground, okay?  Everyone is welcome. :3

And thanks for saying "resurfaced" instead of "came around" or something like that. :3 Recently I've occasionally felt like some people feel like I'm an undesirable invader into "their" fandom, when I've actually just been gone a long time and wanted to try to pick up where I left off if I could.  Nearly everyone I knew has long since moved on, and I only remembered Double Zero as a newbie on my board forever ago.  And Krystal...in all honesty I could never care less about Krystal. XD A lot of the old fans were never fond of her, but she brought in a herd-like new demographic of horny teenaged boys who might have never given Star Fox a look before.  I was never pleased. XD So imagine my further indignation at being given occasional crap about even G-rated gay stuff that's been around since forever, when all the while there are fans constantly parading Krystal's above-average cup size as if she's a reproductive fertility goddess.  Irony has rarely been richer. Well, I suppose I had some growing up to do too - at least I tolerate Krystal now, and the Krystal fans too.  We are, after all, one big family.

I even wrote Krystal as the most level-headed voice of Star Wolf in My Trunk. Which no one has commented on.

Uh oh.  Dermot's-being-emo alert. Treatment: Chocolate ice cream. :P

[Star Fox Runner]

Okay, just...this isn't my playground, okay?  Everyone is welcome. :3

And thanks for saying "resurfaced" instead of "came around" or something like that. :3 Recently I've occasionally felt like some people feel like I'm an undesirable invader into "their" fandom, when I've actually just been gone a long time and wanted to try to pick up where I left off if I could.  Nearly everyone I knew has long since moved on, and I only remembered Double Zero as a newbie on my board forever ago.  And Krystal...in all honesty I could never care less about Krystal. XD A lot of the old fans were never fond of her, but she brought in a herd-like new demographic of horny teenaged boys who might have never given Star Fox a look before.  I was never pleased. XD So imagine my further indignation at being given occasional crap about even G-rated gay stuff that's been around since forever, when all the while there are fans constantly parading Krystal's above-average cup size as if she's a reproductive fertility goddess.  Irony has rarely been richer. Well, I suppose I had some growing up to do too - at least I tolerate Krystal now, and the Krystal fans too.  We are, after all, one big family.

I even wrote Krystal as the most level-headed voice of Star Wolf in My Trunk. Which no one has commented on.

Uh oh.  Dermot's-being-emo alert. Treatment: Chocolate ice cream.

Ah don't worry about it, even though I like Krystal as a character, (not in a perverted way of course) she isn't the reason I like Star Fox, I've been a fan since Star Fox 64 came out.

Ideas for this kind of board have been floating around long before you decided to come back, so I don't think it's about your reappearance.

[Kursed]

Not to offend you dermont but  i think it's because the word "Gay" requires a  mature disccusion without young kids to go all hating about it.

[Dermot]

Not to offend you dermont but  i think it's because the word "Gay" requires a  mature disccusion without young kids to go all hating about it.

No offense taken, but "gay" is not inherently more mature than "straight".  Otherwise, there wouldn't be so many gay youth groups, or gay-straight alliances in public schools, or The Trevor Project advertised all the time on TeenNick, etc.  It's only mature to people who disapprove of LGBT people.  I mean, during the time of racial segregation in the United States, people of color could not be legally shown on television or in film in many states (especially in the South) - it either was not shown or those scenes were edited out.  So these things are not really inherently mature - it's just that their public visibility is seen as threatening to socially-established prejudice and discrimination.  Some people fear what is different.

To be honest, I didn't really think I'd have to be explaining this so verbatim. X3 Really, I'm a liberated fellow sentient being.  You'll just have to get over the notion that gay is somehow necessarily more mature-themed or more sexualized or is less normal than anyone else's life.  Remember, even heteronormativity and heterosexism are forms of homophobia.  These need to be abandoned.

[Steve]

Not to offend you dermont but  i think it's because the word "Gay" requires a  mature disccusion without young kids to go all hating about it.

In part, yes, you are right (mostly because we don't want parents coming here to kill us), however, we left some of the topics on the main board as well, so don't freak out. It's not that we don't want them there, it's because we feel that not everyone is mature enough to understand that homosexuality is something accepted in today's world and something that should be considered normal.

  While this might not be the best solution (like Dermot pointed, what about the gay teenager audience?), it's at least a start to make this forum as balanced as we can. I'm pretty sure we can work things out and make more subforums depending on our needs, it's just a matter of time  :P

[Dermot]

In part, yes, you are right (mostly because we don't want parents coming here to kill us), however, we left some of the topics on the main board as well, so don't freak out. It's not that we don't want them there, it's because we feel that not everyone is mature enough to understand that homosexuality is something accepted in today's world and something that should be considered normal.

  While this might not be the best solution (like Dermot pointed, what about the gay teenager audience?), it's at least a start to make this forum as balanced as we can. I'm pretty sure we can work things out and make more subforums depending on our needs, it's just a matter of time 

I continue to be impressed by your recognition of very subtle things. :3

I hope for the day where what I do or say here is very much a non-issue and does not upset any significant number of people.  Because, really, I'm not this much of an attention whore, and it gets really undesirable after a while.

Sometimes I really miss MouthOff...

Oh by the way, this discussion reminds me of GetBackInTheCloset on tvtropes, which describes this exact issue - how gay issues are treated as less acceptable than equivalent straight issues.

[Steve]

I hope for the day where what I do or say here is very much a non-issue and does not upset any significant number of people.  Because, really, I'm not this much of an attention whore, and it gets really undesirable after a while.

I must admit I was seriously shocked at first, and it's going to take me some time to get used to it. However, we are all equal in rights, so even if I'm not fully comfortable with the subject, I cannot state preference between members nor can I take actions from my own personal beliefs. It's just a matter of embracing the new horizon, instead of hiding from it.

[Dermot]

I must admit I was seriously shocked at first, and it's going to take me some time to get used to it. However, we are all equal in rights, so even if I'm not fully comfortable with the subject, I cannot state preference between members nor can I take actions from my own personal beliefs. It's just a matter of embracing the new horizon, instead of hiding from it.

That's very enlightened of you.  Sorry if you were shocked.  If only I could say this were a new horizon, but it actually happens to be a rather old one, that became forgotten.  I suppose that means that vigilance is always necessary to ensure that rights remain protected over time.

[Steve]

Indeed, we need to keep an eye on this. Like I said, it's going to take some time, and I'm sure the community will grow stronger if we treat this forum as an open world. We have taken the first steps towards a whole new commitment, and neither I or DZ have the power to make this work, it has to be something coming from the own community itself. Which is why we are starting here, on the mature forum, though still unfair, it's the best we can do to provide you the most, comfortable experience. I'm sure we will have to arrange another kind of  commitment once we get young teenagers with other sexual orientation, or the "old community" like you stated.

[Dermot]

Well, I appreciate the good will.  I'm very sorry I've been such an artifact. X3 Maybe it was naive to me to jump right back in as if nothing had changed.  I can't wait for this buzz to go away and to retreat back into being unremarkable. :3

Well, that's kinda true.  I loved running boards in the past, if only because I made so many friends and built up something very good for other people.  I don't mind that being remembered.  I just don't want to be remembered for being someone divisive.  If it comes down to it, I defend my dignity and let unrepentant prejudiced people wallow in their own inability to evolve.  But I want my legacy to be associated with something good and constructive.

So far, my presence has triggered a staff mutiny.  DZComposer swears up and down that this development is not my fault, but it does make me feel remarkable in a rather unnerving way.  Being the artifact, as I said.  I'm not a museum piece! :lol:

[Sabre]

Well, I appreciate the good will.  I'm very sorry I've been such an artifact. X3 Maybe it was naive to me to jump right back in as if nothing had changed.  I can't wait for this buzz to go away and to retreat back into being unremarkable. :3

Well, that's kinda true.  I loved running boards in the past, if only because I made so many friends and built up something very good for other people.  I don't mind that being remembered.  I just don't want to be remembered for being someone divisive.  If it comes down to it, I defend my dignity and let unrepentant prejudiced people wallow in their own inability to evolve.  But I want my legacy to be associated with something good and constructive.

So far, my presence has triggered a staff mutiny.  DZComposer swears up and down that this development is not my fault, but it does make me feel remarkable in a rather unnerving way.  Being the artifact, as I said.  I'm not a museum piece!

Allow me to but in here and say that you are unremarkable now. Let's be honest, you are mostly identifing yourself by your sexuallity at this point, bringing up the issue whenever you mention it. I'm autistic, but I don't advertize that fact. Tbh, you're walking the line between normal and bloody nusence.

For example. I have a bias towards wheelchair people. The reason being is that they keep being gits about it, but get a free pass because they have sympathy.

Even this thread, which was a mear headcount thread, is turned into a gay rights debate, and for what reason? You are like the furries I disowned the fandom for. Constantly thrusting their kinks in my face despite my stated lack of interest, they keept doing it, and when I called them out on it, they cry.

If you haven't guessed, this is me calling it. You keep bringing up your sexuallity where it's not relivent, and then start your gay rights rant.

Before you QQ to the mods about discrimination. Back before the RP board became a mine field of harsh policing, I called out Kursed on the constant hyjacking of RPs to turn them into Krystal romance RPs, the arguments caused by those ended with the RP board being shut down.

TL:DR? Stop bringing up gay rights in every thread. It's getting annoiying.

["User"]

Allow me to but in here and say that you are unremarkable now. Let's be honest, you are mostly identifing yourself by your sexuallity at this point, bringing up the issue whenever you mention it. I'm autistic, but I don't advertize that fact. Tbh, you're walking the line between normal and bloody nusence.

For example. I have a bias towards wheelchair people. The reason being is that they keep being gits about it, but get a free pass because they have sympathy.

Even this thread, which was a mear headcount thread, is turned into a gay rights debate, and for what reason? You are like the furries I disowned the fandom for. Constantly thrusting their kinks in my face despite my stated lack of interest, they keept doing it, and when I called them out on it, they cry.

If you haven't guessed, this is me calling it. You keep bringing up your sexuallity where it's not relivent, and then start your gay rights rant.

Before you QQ to the mods about discrimination. Back before the RP board became a mine field of harsh policing, I called out Kursed on the constant hyjacking of RPs to turn them into Krystal romance RPs, the arguments caused by those ended with the RP board being shut down.

TL:DR? Stop bringing up gay rights in every thread. It's getting annoiying.

I'm surprised a post like this wasn't made earlier, you're right on the money.  I can speak from partial experience when it comes to myself and another laser tag forum which I frequent.  I don't flaunt the fact that I'm a furry and turn some of the topics there into a recognition of my interests - that would label me as an annoying individual.  Regardless of whether it's something that can't be helped (sexuality) or your favorite game or what the heck ever it's still cumbersome and annoying when that seems to be one of the only things that is brought up in posts/topics.

[Dermot]

I'm sorry, I got this impression because DZComposer told me that the staff insurrection is about me being gay, and is a source of a lot of the complaints he's heard.  Combined with occasional insensitive (and even unexpected mean-spirited) comments I've received, this has made me feel rather put on the spot (maybe even rather paranoid and overly self-conscious), so I've been trying to turn to dialogue and education.

And, I actually spend a great chunk of my time on FurAffinity, and the vast majority of my friends are furry and either gay or female.  I actually don't know many straight or non-furry people these days.  But the Star Fox fandom I left years ago was also mostly furry with a lot of gay people and fangirls, and there was no homophobia I could remember.  I was trying to pick up where I left off, and never expected the kind of incidents I encountered.

And I'm autistic too.  Anxiety disorder as well.  But it's very bad to panic, so I respond to anxiety with attempts at diplomacy and additional research.  When DZComposer told me about the anti-gay business and his impression that there is a lot of discomfort present on the board, I thought of what I could do to address this, so I set up the Gay-straight fan alliance poll to glean how people felt about gay fans in their midst.  DZComposer tells me that the mature board is in part to avoid more anti-gay drama, and how he specifically moved most of my scattered threads with any gay content in them to this board, then the discussion here is almost certainly going to be about the gay issue.  DZComposer told me this isn't my fault, but I am the trigger.  So therefore, it makes me feel unpleasantly remarkable.

So if gay rights topics keep coming up, it's because of the drama going on in the background.  I didn't want drama, and tried to avoid it.  But I still have to work around it as gracefully as I can.  And if it means having an engaging discussion of how this affects the community, then that's just how it has to be.

And besides, I like the gay fandom - its gay fans and fangirls and female artists are like many of the friends I already typically have - people I know from places like LiveJournal, FurAffinity, deviantART, Yaoi Gallery, pixiv and countless Japanese art sites.  It's an interest.  I wanted to share its tame side (my interests are mostly tame anyway).  I'd do it again.  What I don't want it to be, is a lead balloon in the community.  I mean...I can assure anyone who's annoyed by the gay fandom that I have always found Krystal just as annoying and as much of a nuisance.  But I had to evolve, and accept it.  Even if Krystal is permanently written out tomorrow (which it actually seems she might be, being unpopular in Japan as she is), her fans aren't likely to go away.

So if the other subfandoms are jarring to some people, I'd rather approach it with education rather than just making myself scarce, because I've given 17 years of my life to this fandom.  And I've been a highly-visible furry even since the days when it wasn't as controversial as it is now.  So we're all in this together.

[Dermot]

Look, the point is, the only reason I've been bringing this up so much lately is because DZComposer said the underlying drama has been pretty big.  He was scared.  He was afraid the community might split, over my presence, and he doesn't think the community could survive it.  So if it's already this bad, I turn to diplomacy on a serious scale.  Some of the developments have been pretty alarming, and I'm trying to scale back that alarm and bring people together.

[Sabre]

Look, the point is, the only reason I've been bringing this up so much lately is because DZComposer said the underlying drama has been pretty big.  He was afraid the community might split, over me, and he doesn't think the community could survive it.  So if it's already this bad, I turn to diplomacy on a serious scale.  Some of the developments have been pretty alarming, and I'm trying to scale back that alarm and bring people together.

There's a difference between education, and not shutting up. You've gone from informing, to fueling. By banging on about it, you are widening the split, and living down to expectations. The mature board should have been the end of it, but you keep going. I've fallen foul of the mods before for posting adult concent, which would be rated PG here. Time was the post/thread was deleted, now we have a nice cosy area to put this stuff.

[Dermot]

Sabre, you said yourself - this doesn't really concern you that much.  If it really seems to concern some people, and DZ is so distressed about it, I want to help him.  He's been so kind and helpful to me, and I look after my loyal users, even if I'm not his admin anymore.  I'd rather risk annoying some people by trying to educate in civility, than to reward ignorance on the issue.  Annoyance may be a bit uncomfortable at times (not to mention difficult to predict), but ultimately it's not my largest concern if there's important work to be done.  Besides, I didn't go around thinking, "How can I annoy people today?", let alone you.  No, I thought, "How can I make the world a better place today?"  Because that's my priority - to make the world a better place.