So, who's in here?

[Sabre]

Sabre, you said yourself - this doesn't really concern you that much.  If it really seems to concern some people, and DZ is so distressed about it, I want to help him.  He's been so kind and helpful to me, and I look after my loyal users, even if I'm not his admin anymore.  I'd rather risk annoying some people by trying to educate in civility, than to reward ignorance on the issue.  Annoyance may be a bit uncomfortable at times (not to mention difficult to predict), but ultimately it's not my largest concern if there's important work to be done.  Besides, I didn't go around thinking, "How can I annoy people today?", let alone you.  No, I thought, "How can I make the world a better place today?"  Because that's my priority - to make the world a better place.

That's bollocks. You are forcing your opinions onto other people, and tearing the community apart in the process. Your using the 'growing controvisy' and newspaper campaign tactic of forcing the issue into people faces, and then claiming it's a big issue that everyone is talking about and that more people should be aware of to justify forcing it onto them more and more. There's no reason for it, no excuse. I have my views on the issue. You are doing nothing to change them and are making the issue worse by being a knob about it, thus it reflects badly on the cause you are trying to promote.

[Kursed]

That's bollocks. You are forcing your opinions onto other people, and tearing the community apart in the process. Your using the 'growing controvisy' and newspaper campaign tactic of forcing the issue into people faces, and then claiming it's a big issue that everyone is talking about and that more people should be aware of to justify forcing it onto them more and more. There's no reason for it, no excuse. I have my views on the issue. You are doing nothing to change them and are making the issue worse by being a knob about it, thus it reflects badly on the cause you are trying to promote.

Calm down arguing will get us no where.

Or as Krystal perfectly puts it

:That's enough, Boys.

[Star Fox Runner]

That's bollocks. You are forcing your opinions onto other people, and tearing the community apart in the process. Your using the 'growing controvisy' and newspaper campaign tactic of forcing the issue into people faces, and then claiming it's a big issue that everyone is talking about and that more people should be aware of to justify forcing it onto them more and more. There's no reason for it, no excuse. I have my views on the issue. You are doing nothing to change them and are making the issue worse by being a knob about it, thus it reflects badly on the cause you are trying to promote.

I've got no problem with what Dermot is talking about, and I have no problem with him. So his presence brought out an underlying issue, SO WHAT, that doesn't make him a troublemaker, in my opinion, he is more of a victim in this.

Sabre, you're calling him out because he keeps bringing up the subject of homosexuality, and I see you find that annoying, but it can be just as annoying when you constantly call people out on subjects you don't agree with. You saying he's forcing his opinions on us? You're forcing your opinions on us by constantly saying how you hate a subject.

I admit that Dermot brings up the subject up a lot, (and though I don't have a problem with it because I don't like prejudice thrown at homosexuals either.), I can see how people could get annoyed by it, but you calling people out when you don't like something can be just as annoying.

And I know your probably going to get mad at me for this and tell me off for it, and I probably shouldn't be bringing this up because I could be could get flagged with instigating an argument, but this is something I've wanted to say for a while now, and I take responsibility for my actions..

[Sabre]

This will require point by point deconstruction.

"I've got no problem with what Dermot is talking about, and I have no problem with him. So his presence brought out an underlying issue, SO WHAT"

My point exactly.

"that doesn't make him a troublemaker, in my opinion, he is more of a victim in this."

Incorrect. While he WASN'T a troublemaker, his hyjacking of threads and constant preaching made him one. He is a victim of himself.

"Sabre, you're calling him out because he keeps bringing up the subject of homosexuality, and I see you find that annoying, but it can be just as annoying when you constantly call people out on subjects you don't agree with."

Strawman. I call people out on hypocrasy, flawed logic and thread hyjack. Deconstruting their arguments and dispelling lies are my tools.

"You saying he's forcing his opinions on us? You're forcing your opinions on us by constantly saying how you hate a subject."

3 posts in 1 thread. The subject is fine, but his methods are bad and against the rules. When this happened before, bans were handed out and the board got shut down. Here he gets his own forum and his arse kissed because he's friends with DZ. That's what I hate.

Also

"I admit that Dermot brings up the subject up a lot, (and though I don't have a problem with it because I don't like prejudice thrown at homosexuals either.), I can see how people could get annoyed by it, but you calling people out when you don't like something can be just as annoying."

See above. Also I like the way you imply I'm a homophobe. Very subtle, but wrong.

"And I know your probably going to get mad at me for this and tell me off for it, and I probably shouldn't be bringing this up because I could be could get flagged with instigating an argument, but this is something I've wanted to say for a while now, and I take responsibility for my actions.."

Oh please, your not aking a heroic sacrefice. You're shooting yourself in the foot. Also trying to make it so I can't challenge you without looking like an angry idiot doesn't work. As I will prove.

Just drop the subject and admit I've won, only an idiot would continue.

See, there's no way out of that.

["User"]

I've talked to Dermont a bit about this on msn and got my take on it.

I've got no problem with what Dermot is talking about, and I have no problem with him. So his presence brought out an underlying issue, SO WHAT,

Agreed.  So what?  I don't in the end really care for all this drama and constant bitching.  Sometimes I wish everyone would shut up about it and we can move on.

that doesn't make him a troublemaker, in my opinion, he is more of a victim in this.

Not really, while he does have good intentions (to him at least) on what he posts and while he does want to make a positive impact when a good % of his posts are about the same "issue" that people take exception with it does get annoying.

Sabre, you're calling him out because he keeps bringing up the subject of homosexuality, and I see you find that annoying, but it can be just as annoying when you constantly call people out on subjects you don't agree with. You saying he's forcing his opinions on us? You're forcing your opinions on us by constantly saying how you hate a subject.

Keyword:  "Subjects".    It's one thing to be known for delivering an opposing viewpoint on a variety of subjects (plural) compared with having a view point of the same subject (singular).  On a forum that I administrator (KLA) I have a certain individual that could be considered a troublemaker with a lot of his views on certain things, the thing is he isn't because he doesn't continually seem to "obsess" on the same topic....

I admit that Dermot brings up the subject up a lot, (and though I don't have a problem with it because I don't like prejudice thrown at homosexuals either.), I can see how people could get annoyed by it, but you calling people out when you don't like something can be just as annoying.

Again, depends on how many times he posts about it.  I can argue on 20 different subjects with one post on each subject that's 3 pages long each...does that make me annoying?  That may make me like to argue/debate about many different things and express my view point in a post or two.  But to me, and I'm sure to many other members of this forum, when one topic/subject/point of view gets constantly pushed in a high number of posts THAT makes me go "yes, I get the point for the 100th time, please just shut up about it"

And I know your probably going to get mad at me for this and tell me off for it, and I probably shouldn't be bringing this up because I could be could get flagged with instigating an argument, but this is something I've wanted to say for a while now, and I take responsibility for my actions..

I see nothing "bad" with what you're saying per se because it's your point of view and everyone is entitled to one.  Now if you said something like that a dozen or so times to the same person.....then yeah maybe I'd take exception to it :)

[Star Fox Runner]

See above. Also I like the way you imply I'm a homophobe. Very subtle, but wrong.

I never implied that you were homophobic, you're taking my words out of context. What I was saying was that when you called him out on constantly bringing up the subject matter, not the subject itself.

Just drop the subject and admit I've won, only an idiot would continue.

See, there's no way out of that.

Well, then I guess I must be an idiot, but there is no fight that needs to be won here. Saying that only an idiot would continue is your attempt to make me the fool here, and there is no need for that. Trying to appoint yourself the victor of a pointless argument is very egotistical.

Here is a bit of advice, how about we both shut up, and let this go before it leads to something nasty. I don't care what you say to counterpoint this, I am not responding, because why do I need to be the victor of an argument with some faceless person from the internet, I don't know you, we live thousands of miles apart, I'm never going to meet you, and the people you debate with you'll never meet either. And I'm not going to gain or lose any sleep over a won or lost argument with someone who lives an ocean away on some distant continent. Because it doesn't matter, there is no reason to continue.

You don't speak to me, I don't speak to you. Everyone gets along.

[Kursed]

Can we all please calm down?

[Sabre]

I never implied that you were homophobic, you're taking my words out of context. What I was saying was that when you called him out on constantly bringing up the subject matter, not the subject itself.

Well, then I guess I must be an idiot, but there is no fight that needs to be won here. Saying that only an idiot would continue is your attempt to make me the fool here, and there is no need for that. Trying to appoint yourself the victor of a pointless argument is very egotistical.

Here is a bit of advice, how about we both shut up, and let this go before it leads to something nasty. I don't care what you say to counterpoint this, I am not responding, because why do I need to be the victor of an argument with some faceless person from the internet, I don't know you, we live thousands of miles apart, I'm never going to meet you, and the people you debate with you'll never meet either. And I'm not going to gain or lose any sleep over a won or lost argument with someone who lives an ocean away on some distant continent. Because it doesn't matter, there is no reason to continue.

You don't speak to me, I don't speak to you. Everyone gets along.

The subject isn't the issue here. You seem not to understand that.

See, I gave an example of what you did, and why you shouldn't do it, but you do the exact same thing again? Why? You claim to not care, but you force yourself to make it look like you're taking the moral high ground. You're like the pope without the funky hat, or perhaps a kid who covers his ears and screams so he doesn't have to hear the truth and come to the realisation that he's wrong.

Either way, you won't respond, it gives you the faulse feeling of superiority, but you will be reading this in order to confirm it to yourself. Not that is matters. Dermot claims he wants to drop the issue. His actions (or more specifically his lack of) will say if he's sinseer.

[Steve]

Alright, that's as much hate as we can tolerate here (one and a half page), just let it die. No actions will be taken, just forget it

Remember the first rule of this place :

1. Don't be a douchebag. We're all adults here. No need for hateful or mean things. Don't start shit, either.

[DZComposer]

Remember: If you can't act civil in here, we will kick you out.

BTW, Dermot, please do not take anything I have said to you in private out of context. When I said there was plenty of blame to go around, I didn't mean to 100% absolve you from any. I meant by "it wasn't your fault" is that your actions alone were not what caused the trouble, the reactions to it, while admittedly expected, were equally to blame.

Also, I was kind of hoping you were going to keep the fact that this was bubbling up in the staff private.

I will stand up for fairness as much as I can while keeping things civil, but please don't take advantage me over that. If you burn me, I will find it difficult to help you with anything afterwards.

Sabre, despite his less than nice way of putting it, has a valid point. I have noticed that you get really defensive. I don't blame you, but might I suggest reporting homophobic comments to the staff rather than making a big scene out of it.

[Zicka]

lol what's going on.

Good to see a forum where mature subjects can be placed where they belong.

I like this.

[Sabre]

Remember: If you can't act civil in here, we will kick you out.

BTW, Dermot, please do not take anything I have said to you in private out of context. When I said there was plenty of blame to go around, I didn't mean to 100% absolve you from any. I meant by "it wasn't your fault" is that your actions alone were not what caused the trouble, the reactions to it, while admittedly expected, were equally to blame.

Also, I was kind of hoping you were going to keep the fact that this was bubbling up in the staff private.

I will stand up for fairness as much as I can while keeping things civil, but please don't take advantage me over that. If you burn me, I will find it difficult to help you with anything afterwards.

Sabre, despite his less than nice way of putting it, has a valid point. I have noticed that you get really defensive. I don't blame you, but might I suggest reporting homophobic comments to the staff rather than making a big scene out of it.

Good thing you haven't heard it through the grapevine. I don't listen to rumours, but it sounds much worse then he's letting on.

As for me being defencive, then yes. I am defending my possition because it has yet to be properly challenged. Instead the issue is dodged, wrongness was done and they failed to address my point.

Not only that, but I don't think you (DZ) should have a say in this. Let's be honest, you're biased. You are pals that go way back and you have let things slide things that any other member would have got warnings or temp bans for. All this chaos and for what? 1 guy abusing his connections?

[Dermot]

My goodness...

I'm sorry, DZ, I didn't realize you wanted to keep it so private.  Just, what you said, really, really affected me.  You know how I've been trying not to make it my problem, right?  Well...I suppose I'm ultimately not made out of stone, if it keeps accumulating.  So, it became my problem.  Yes, of course I report abuse if it's made on the spot - I've done that repeatedly.  But I've also encountered occasional near-abuse that actually reflected as much good will as it did faux pas and ignorance, and so I decided to take a bit of initiative.  I know I'm at least somewhat to blame for a situation especially if I don't handle it well.  So...I've been trying to handle it well.  No incivility.  Just diplomacy.

To be honest, if I'm speaking my truth, and pleading for group understanding and harmony, it can be a little hard not to sound preachy.  There all sorts of things I tolerate.  But ignorance has never really been one of them.  Do I get mad?  Well, not easily.  With my anxiety disease, it's very counterproductive.  To quote the Hulk, "You wouldn't like me when I'm angry."  I try never to bring it out, because then I lose control, and things can get ugly real fast.  So I don't get angry.  If I got angry, everyone would know it.  No, I take regular breathers, I relax, I meditate if necessary, and then try to use whatever wisdom and intellect I have to bridge gaps with words.

Do I pontificate?  Oh yes.  Am I arrogant?  Somewhat.  Do I make a mountain out of a molehill?  I certainly try not to, but I also need to control my anxiety levels at any given time.  Am I more my likely to make a mountain out of a molehill if someone I trust does so?  Probably.  Is it all worth it?  Well, if I can do something constructive while keeping my anxiety levels in check, it probably is.  Sometimes the best thing I can do is detach myself from the swings of emotion, and speak only with hard logic.  Does it make me seem cold and unfeeling?  Sometimes.  It's far better than the alternative.  To balance, I would much rather be a coldly-logical, pontificating, arrogant pacifist, than risk succumbing to anger or panic.  Pacifists can do good work and make the world a better place with their words.  Raving maniacs, not so much.  I mean, I do care about people (and I can care about people a lot), and I even care about Sabre, as his concerns are valid and I want him to be happy.  I only really stop caring about people if they're wielding prejudice.  (People trying to overcome prejudice get my sympathy.  If they won't even try, then I try not to let it be my problem.)

If there's one thing I've learned over years of dealing with anxiety disease, it's that there are things worth sweating, but annoyance is not one of them.  If something's annoying, detach.  Annoyance is never worth losing one's composure over, no matter what.  Which is just as well, because I have an oblivious tendency to be annoying as hell even on a good day, at least to someone.  It's not personal.  Pick your battles, and balance your angers.  Ask yourself regularly and often, if it's really worth it.  Very often the answer is no.

[Dermot]

Okay, I had a chance to cool down.  I never actually quite lost my cool, but I have to remain adequately cool at all times, even if sometimes it means I come across as chilly.  I must never lose my temper.

So...I'm sorry for things that caused some people annoyance, I'm sorry for any miscalculations of judgment, I'm sorry for the multi-thread topic osmosis, and I'm sorry for getting defensive so often.  This entire situation has been very surreal and more than just a bit alarming, thrusting me into some unfamiliar territory.  I've been improvising.  I've felt under pressure for some days now.  So many twists and new developments when I least expect them...

Is that...reasonable?

[Kursed]

Okay, I had a chance to cool down.  I never actually quite lost my cool, but I have to remain adequately cool at all times, even if sometimes it means I come across as chilly.  I must never lose my temper.

So...I'm sorry for things that caused some people annoyance, I'm sorry for any miscalculations of judgment, I'm sorry for the multi-thread topic osmosis, and I'm sorry for getting defensive so often.  This entire situation has been very surreal and more than just a bit alarming, thrusting me into some unfamiliar territory.  I've been improvising.  I've felt under pressure for some days now.  So many twists and new developments when I least expect them...

Is that...reasonable?

with all due respect Dermont Do you have to ask if it's resonable to anyone but the admins? we're all suppose to respect each other here.

[Sabre]

My goodness...

I'm sorry, DZ, I didn't realize you wanted to keep it so private.  Just, what you said, really, really affected me.  You know how I've been trying not to make it my problem, right?  Well...I suppose I'm ultimately not made out of stone, if it keeps accumulating.  So, it became my problem.  Yes, of course I report abuse if it's made on the spot - I've done that repeatedly.  But I've also encountered occasional near-abuse that actually reflected as much good will as it did faux pas and ignorance, and so I decided to take a bit of initiative.  I know I'm at least somewhat to blame for a situation especially if I don't handle it well.  So...I've been trying to handle it well.  No incivility.  Just diplomacy.

To be honest, if I'm speaking my truth, and pleading for group understanding and harmony, it can be a little hard not to sound preachy.  There all sorts of things I tolerate.  But ignorance has never really been one of them.  Do I get mad?  Well, not easily.  With my anxiety disease, it's very counterproductive.  To quote the Hulk, "You wouldn't like me when I'm angry."  I try never to bring it out, because then I lose control, and things can get ugly real fast.  So I don't get angry.  If I got angry, everyone would know it.  No, I take regular breathers, I relax, I meditate if necessary, and then try to use whatever wisdom and intellect I have to bridge gaps with words.

Do I pontificate?  Oh yes.  Am I arrogant?  Somewhat.  Do I make a mountain out of a molehill?  I certainly try not to, but I also need to control my anxiety levels at any given time.  Am I more my likely to make a mountain out of a molehill if someone I trust does so?  Probably.  Is it all worth it?  Well, if I can do something constructive while keeping my anxiety levels in check, it probably is.  Sometimes the best thing I can do is detach myself from the swings of emotion, and speak only with hard logic.  Does it make me seem cold and unfeeling?  Sometimes.  It's far better than the alternative.  To balance, I would much rather be a coldly-logical, pontificating, arrogant pacifist, than risk succumbing to anger or panic.  Pacifists can do good work and make the world a better place with their words.  Raving maniacs, not so much.  I mean, I do care about people (and I can care about people a lot), and I even care about Sabre, as his concerns are valid and I want him to be happy.  I only really stop caring about people if they're wielding prejudice.  (People trying to overcome prejudice get my sympathy.  If they won't even try, then I try not to let it be my problem.)

If there's one thing I've learned over years of dealing with anxiety disease, it's that there are things worth sweating, but annoyance is not one of them.  If something's annoying, detach.  Annoyance is never worth losing one's composure over, no matter what.  Which is just as well, because I have an oblivious tendency to be annoying as hell even on a good day, at least to someone.  It's not personal.  Pick your battles, and balance your angers.  Ask yourself regularly and often, if it's really worth it.  Very often the answer is no.

Heh. My views on pasifism are known in another thread, as for anger. I can control myself without the new age nonsence. The hulk 'would not like me when I'm angry' thing, are you refering to the autistic power of superhuman stregth and resistence?

[DZComposer]

My goodness...

I'm sorry, DZ, I didn't realize you wanted to keep it so private.  Just, what you said, really, really affected me.  You know how I've been trying not to make it my problem, right?  Well...I suppose I'm ultimately not made out of stone, if it keeps accumulating.  So, it became my problem.  Yes, of course I report abuse if it's made on the spot - I've done that repeatedly.  But I've also encountered occasional near-abuse that actually reflected as much good will as it did faux pas and ignorance, and so I decided to take a bit of initiative.  I know I'm at least somewhat to blame for a situation especially if I don't handle it well.  So...I've been trying to handle it well.  No incivility.  Just diplomacy.

To be honest, if I'm speaking my truth, and pleading for group understanding and harmony, it can be a little hard not to sound preachy.  There all sorts of things I tolerate.  But ignorance has never really been one of them.  Do I get mad?  Well, not easily.  With my anxiety disease, it's very counterproductive.  To quote the Hulk, "You wouldn't like me when I'm angry."  I try never to bring it out, because then I lose control, and things can get ugly real fast.  So I don't get angry.  If I got angry, everyone would know it.  No, I take regular breathers, I relax, I meditate if necessary, and then try to use whatever wisdom and intellect I have to bridge gaps with words.

Do I pontificate?  Oh yes.  Am I arrogant?  Somewhat.  Do I make a mountain out of a molehill?  I certainly try not to, but I also need to control my anxiety levels at any given time.  Am I more my likely to make a mountain out of a molehill if someone I trust does so?  Probably.  Is it all worth it?  Well, if I can do something constructive while keeping my anxiety levels in check, it probably is.  Sometimes the best thing I can do is detach myself from the swings of emotion, and speak only with hard logic.  Does it make me seem cold and unfeeling?  Sometimes.  It's far better than the alternative.  To balance, I would much rather be a coldly-logical, pontificating, arrogant pacifist, than risk succumbing to anger or panic.  Pacifists can do good work and make the world a better place with their words.  Raving maniacs, not so much.  I mean, I do care about people (and I can care about people a lot), and I even care about Sabre, as his concerns are valid and I want him to be happy.  I only really stop caring about people if they're wielding prejudice.  (People trying to overcome prejudice get my sympathy.  If they won't even try, then I try not to let it be my problem.)

If there's one thing I've learned over years of dealing with anxiety disease, it's that there are things worth sweating, but annoyance is not one of them.  If something's annoying, detach.  Annoyance is never worth losing one's composure over, no matter what.  Which is just as well, because I have an oblivious tendency to be annoying as hell even on a good day, at least to someone.  It's not personal.  Pick your battles, and balance your angers.  Ask yourself regularly and often, if it's really worth it.  Very often the answer is no.

I understand why someone in your position can get defensive, and as I am sure you know, you have my sympathy.

I just don't want you to be pompous about it. That only leads to more drama which in turn leads to sour moods among everyone involved.

I've had to make some serious sacrifices to allow you to participate here. All I ask in return is that you be civil in the event of someone disagreeing with you.

Good thing you haven't heard it through the grapevine. I don't listen to rumours, but it sounds much worse then he's letting on.

As for me being defencive, then yes. I am defending my possition because it has yet to be properly challenged. Instead the issue is dodged, wrongness was done and they failed to address my point.

Not only that, but I don't think you (DZ) should have a say in this. Let's be honest, you're biased. You are pals that go way back and you have let things slide things that any other member would have got warnings or temp bans for. All this chaos and for what? 1 guy abusing his connections?

My sticking up for Dermot was more about trying to be fair to someone who is of a minority that is still not fully accepted in our society. I never meant it as favoritism, and if it came out looking that way, I apologize. To be honest, I hadn't spoken with Dermot much before he came here. Back in the day, he was just "the admin" to me. I just wanted him to get a fair deal.

I actually do have a serious moral issue with banning gay stuff just because it is gay, and that was the main driver of how I handled this. Even if it was someone I had no previous knowledge of, I would have felt the same way.

Could I have handled it better? Very likely so. This is Finals week for me, and I have lots of other shit to worry about.

I try. I want to be fair.

[DZComposer]

Woah, strange double post... O_o

[Dermot]

Of course DZ, you are right.  You seem to be the more capable admin than I likely would have been in a situation such as this.  You have done so much for me.

Sabre, you'll have to clarify what you mean by "new age nonsense".  I'm autistic (from one parent), but I also have a serious anxiety disease (from the other parent) that has become somewhat more difficult to manage as I have aged (harder than in the 1990s, for instance).  This "Hulk" I speak of is what can happen if I ever let myself to meltdown - either in anger or in panic.  It's not only terrific anger, but it's incredibly harmful to myself.  Not just in the mind, but it floods my body with hormones that are physically toxic to me.  It can take up to a week or two to recover.  For the past few days, I've felt dangerously on the brink of losing my cool.  As I've tried harder to control it, I've felt my sanity slip.  This has resulted in increasingly erratic and blunt behavior.

There has been...lots of stressful twists and turns lately.  Things that only added to my stress little by little.  Here's a brief little history that led to my behavior on this thread:

A certain issue came up during a conversation DZ and I had.  One specific part had a particularly punctuating effect to me.  I mentioned how I'd made a fan fiction post, but no one had commented.  He said that he gets the impression sometimes that people wish I would simply go away.  Ouch.  Ouch.  ...just ouch.  (Not that I fault DZComposer for his sincere and thoughtful observation of the atmosphere.)

Before that conversation had even ended, I added the "Gay-straight fan alliance" poll to glean some statistics.  My hope was that more people were accepting of or ambivalent towards the gay fandom rather than rejecting.  On the poll, there were a lot of supportive and interesting comments.  Then Simon left a supportive comment, but it was sprinkled with some really heavy...things.  I could tell the good will was genuine, but I told him that some of his words could be like an anvil, and asked him to use care.  After this, I realized that there may be a great deal of simple ignorance involved.

That's when I decided to start the "Gay fandom facts" thread, to provide history, facts and background information to help educate people who may not have been aware of it.  Got some supportive and interesting comments there, including...a certain user spewing hate, and requiring two staff warnings before he stopped.  That actually was easier to ignore than the other sources of stress - for some reason it's easier to ignore outright hate.

But anyway, the discussion continued on the poll thread, the facts thread, and developed naturally on the "Homosexuality and SFO" thread, and the new thread announcing the mature board.  And by the time I got to this thread, I had this feeling like all this was happening because of me, and that was getting to me too.  So I brought it up a little, and so we had a little discussion here.

I think the straw that broke the camel's back and gave me the worse headache...was Sabre calling me on this multi-thread topic osmosis and how annoying it became.  On top of all the stress and all the feelings of being an artifact (while constantly trying to think and figure out what to do about it all), I then felt like I was being resented for the way I tried to handle it.  This, more than what DZComposer said, more than what Simon said, more than what Zicka said, more than even hearing about this background drama down the grape vine...gave me a pounding headache and a brought me closest to actually experiencing real anger.

I mean, I had tried so hard to do something good - to do something constructive.  Nothing I did ever seemed like it was good enough, and I came dangerously close to losing my cool.  The only way I got over it, was by lying down for hours until the anxiety levels went down.  This is a real signature of having a bad last few days.  I find myself having absolutely no idea how to speak to DZ, or to Sabre, or to anyone at the moment who has pulled me aside and pointed out my faux pas.  I would love to say I know what to do, but instead I can only recognize that DZ is right, and Sabre's concerns are reasonable, and that I am completely out of ideas.  I want to close my eyes, and then reopen them, and find that I'm no longer anyone's awkward mutant, and that DZ, Sabre and everyone else are all smiles and that nothing's wrong anymore.

(Heh, there's irony in this post.  I said the recent history would be brief, and it was several paragraphs anyway.  Score one for Dermot never knowing how to cut to the chase. )

[Sabre]

Of course DZ, you are right.  You seem to be the more capable admin than I likely would have been in a situation such as this.  You have done so much for me.

Sabre, you'll have to clarify what you mean by "new age nonsense".  I'm autistic (from one parent), but I also have a serious anxiety disease (from the other parent) that has become somewhat more difficult to manage as I have aged (harder than in the 1990s, for instance).  This "Hulk" I speak of is what can happen if I ever let myself to meltdown - either in anger or in panic.  It's not only terrific anger, but it's incredibly harmful to myself.  Not just in the mind, but it floods my body with hormones that are physically toxic to me.  It can take up to a week or two to recover.  For the past few days, I've felt dangerously on the brink of losing my cool.  As I've tried harder to control it, I've felt my sanity slip.  This has resulted in increasingly erratic and blunt behavior.

There has been...lots of stressful twists and turns lately.  Things that only added to my stress little by little.  Here's a brief little history that led to my behavior on this thread:

A certain issue came up during a conversation DZ and I had.  One specific part had a particularly punctuating effect to me.  I mentioned how I'd made a fan fiction post, but no one had commented.  He said that he gets the impression sometimes that people wish I would simply go away.  Ouch.  Ouch.  ...just ouch.  (Not that I fault DZComposer for his sincere and thoughtful observation of the atmosphere.)

Before that conversation had even ended, I added the "Gay-straight fan alliance" poll to glean some statistics.  My hope was that more people were accepting of or ambivalent towards the gay fandom rather than rejecting.  On the poll, there were a lot of supportive and interesting comments.  Then Simon left a supportive comment, but it was sprinkled with some really heavy...things.  I could tell the good will was genuine, but I told him that some of his words could be like an anvil, and asked him to use care.  After this, I realized that there may be a great deal of simple ignorance involved.

That's when I decided to start the "Gay fandom facts" thread, to provide history, facts and background information to help educate people who may not have been aware of it.  Got some supportive and interesting comments there, including...a certain user spewing hate, and requiring two staff warnings before he stopped.  That actually was easier to ignore than the other sources of stress - for some reason it's easier to ignore outright hate.

But anyway, the discussion continued on the poll thread, the facts thread, and developed naturally on the "Homosexuality and SFO" thread, and the new thread announcing the mature board.  And by the time I got to this thread, I had this feeling like all this was happening because of me, and that was getting to me too.  So I brought it up a little, and so we had a little discussion here.

I think the straw that broke the camel's back and gave me the worse headache...was Sabre calling me on this multi-thread topic osmosis and how annoying it became.  On top of all the stress and all the feelings of being an artifact (while constantly trying to think and figure out what to do about it all), I then felt like I was being resented for the way I tried to handle it.  This, more than what DZComposer said, more than what Simon said, more than what Zicka said, more than even hearing about this background drama down the grape vine...gave me a pounding headache and a brought me closest to actually experiencing real anger.

I mean, I had tried so hard to do something good - to do something constructive.  Nothing I did ever seemed like it was good enough, and I came dangerously close to losing my cool.  The only way I got over it, was by lying down for hours until the anxiety levels went down.  This is a real signature of having a bad last few days.  I find myself having absolutely no idea how to speak to DZ, or to Sabre, or to anyone at the moment who has pulled me aside and pointed out my faux pas.  I would love to say I know what to do, but instead I can only recognize that DZ is right, and Sabre's concerns are reasonable, and that I am completely out of ideas.  I want to close my eyes, and then reopen them, and find that I'm no longer anyone's awkward mutant, and that DZ, Sabre and everyone else are all smiles and that nothing's wrong anymore.

(Heh, there's irony in this post.  I said the recent history would be brief, and it was several paragraphs anyway.  Score one for Dermot never knowing how to cut to the chase. )

All this was because someone didn't comment on your fanfic? Dude. That's the definition of overreaction. If not, that's how it sounds.

By new age crap, I mean breathing excersises, counting to 10, meditation and all that crap. As for the hulk-ness. I have the autistic super human anger power that makes me super strong and super resistent, when added to a big guy with no issues of killing someone, that's proper hulk. I can throw furniture across the room that most can't even lift. Imagine the tank from left 4 dead and your pretty much there.

Also, so much for not mentioning it again.

[Dermot]

Well, not for no one commenting on it...but what DZ said in response to me mentioning that - I didn't want to believe that everyone just thinks I'm weird and that my interests are undesirable in their holy shrine of Krystalland.  I'm not as petty as overreacting over a fan fiction.

And the exercises I do are critical for maintaining my cool.  The thing about anxiety disease, is that the anxiety is always "on", and never turns "off" - that part of my brain is hard-wired "on", just like with the parent I inherited it from.  The active anxiety levels can be kept low in the right circumstances and with the right practice, but it's always a hazard.  When anxiety rises, it has a very nasty habit of...feeding on itself, so that anxiety that's too high reaches a sort of critical mass, and can no longer be controlled or contained.  This leads to a chain reaction called an "anxiety attack" or a "panic attack", where anxiety has taken over and one loses control.  (Though they are technically synonyms, I use them differently - "anxiety attack" is when the attack is reached gradually through steady loss of control, while a "panic attack" strikes suddenly and violently all at once.)  It literally causes physical harm, as the body reacts by flooding itself with hormones - adrenaline and stress toxins.  These settle in place, causing illness and physical soreness, and can seriously damage one's health.  (In fact, one of the first warning signs of dangerously-high anxiety levels, is when my shoulders and neck suddenly become very sore and feel cold, even when bundled up.)  The aftermath leaves me a mental and physical basketcase, and it takes anywhere from a few days to two weeks to detox from a single attack.  This makes repeated anxiety attacks over a relatively short period particularly devastating.

Treatment of anxiety disorder includes things such as prescription medication (and I am medicated).  But this is no cure or sure fix - rather than stopping the anxiety, it only gives me better faculties to manage it.  To do that, I practice cognitive exercises designed to cut off what's feeding the anxiety at its source.  Then, the anxiety can die down to normal background levels.  Anxiety can also be "burned off" in a way through regular exercise, such as walking.  But remember the medication I mentioned at the beginning of this paragraph?  If I have too many anxiety spikes in a day, it has an effect of sort of "burning through" my medication, until it's like I haven't taken it at all.

I had just started anti-anxiety treatment in the 1990s, and it hadn't become as severe as it is now.  But over the years, my medication has gradually needed to be increased, and I've suffered occasional physical harm from bad anxiety attacks, including the permanent collapse of my circadian rhythm in 2005.  I'm not entirely sure how much damage has occurred over the years, but I know I've also lost several IQ points over the past decade, and I have a Brain Age of 80 (60 if I really try to concentrate).  But I'm determined not to let it all stop me from living my life, if I can help it.  Positive thinking can help.

So it's not new age, as you might think.  I'm not burning incense and chanting about my chakras. It's accredited therapy and good medical treatment.

[Sylum]

Whoa shit....what did i walk into?

[Dermot]

As long as we keep it all civil. :3

[Guest Julius Quasar]

*Fires a gun off into the air*

I applied to get in here days ago, by doing the "add me to this group" option in my profile/account but I didn't realize you gotta directly ask an admin to let you in.

But I'm in now! 

[Asper Sarnoff]

Okay, I'm in here as well. Didn't see the point in applying to be added since that would come with the mod position anyway.