Firearms.

[Guest DRL]

I see

(but I'm right, you still mentioned it..)

...

(From a factual point, yeah,

I DID MENTION IT, dang!! )

[EazyIN]

[glow=red,2,300]RIFLE OWNS YOU ALL[/glow]

[Braux]

Looking towards Modern Warfare 2 for accurate gun capabilities is like looking at the Teletubbies to explain the meaning of life, not going to happen.

I lol'd

I don't own many guns, just two. A .22 bolt action to shoot praire dogs, and a 12 gauge shotgun used for phesant hunting. A friend of mine though... dang I can't count how many rifles he has... 

One gun I would like to get just for fun is the H&K MP5, I like the look.

[Zicka]

That's funny. I seem to spot some guy trying his best to troll the other members around without crossing any rules. The one he seems to have overlooked however is the one about posting in a friendly manner and not to throw insults around.

That's all you can ever say now, whenever someone posts anything you don't like you use the blanket statement of 'lol ur just a troll' as a piss-poor attempt to attack someone by throwing labels at them. I have been topical and I haven't thrown a single personal insult, so you have just revealed how ready you are to use the troll label on *anything*

The M16 is a POS, and it's variants are also a POS. Granted it's fine for range and varmint shooting, in actual battle that gun will get dirt in it and it will break. It has no reliability, and actually has poor accuracy since the XM8 is more accurate with an 18 inch barrel (in standard AR form), while the M16 has a 20 inch barrel. The M16 fails in all aspects except stopping power and ease of use.

And it's also affordable, you can list all the superior firearms you want, but for the average citizen, they are going to choose the cheaper AR that can still perform over the two and a half grand bushmaster ACR.

The AK is a junk weapon, slow velocity, inaccurate as hell, yet it's still one of the most popular firearms worldwide because you can do anything to it and it can still chuck it's bullets.

[Sideways]

Time for this thread to cool down.

[DZComposer]

This really wasn't lock-ready yet. But the warning stands.

[Zicka]

Granted it's fine for range and varmint shooting, in actual battle that gun will get dirt in it and it will break. It has no reliability, and actually has poor accuracy since the XM8 is more accurate with an 18 inch barrel (in standard AR form), while the M16 has a 20 inch barrel.

I had to go back to this one because I didn't catch the nuances of this statement before.

The line about the gun breaking from dirt is the same 50 year old spiel you got during the Vietnam war. Sure, the thing might break if you ignore the proper care it needs for a couple of *weeks*. But if you clean it regularly the AR is quite reliable.

And this thing about accuracy, what is the criteria for this accuracy you speak of. I have seen groupings of an inch and a half at one hundred yards from an AR, which is just perfect for any combat situation you might face.

[Eagle Kammback]

My first, and only time to date, firing a gun was at my buddy's farm, I hit a keg twice at 50 yards, then one shot left they let me take at 350 yards, and by what had to be a complete fluke, I hit it

[Guest Julius Quasar]

The M16 is definitely light, comfortable, and ergonomic (I've held and practiced at my friend's place in Nevada, with his semi-auto civilian version of it, the AR-15).  Not my cup of tea, though....I like the M-14, or the M-1 Garand.

[Vy'drach]

I had to go back to this one because I didn't catch the nuances of this statement before.

The line about the gun breaking from dirt is the same 50 year old spiel you got during the Vietnam war. Sure, the thing might break if you ignore the proper care it needs for a couple of *weeks*. But if you clean it regularly the AR is quite reliable.

And this thing about accuracy, what is the criteria for this accuracy you speak of. I have seen groupings of an inch and a half at one hundred yards from an AR, which is just perfect for any combat situation you might face.

All it takes is a little bit of grime to get into the internal workings of the M16 and it's variants, and it will jam. Excessive fouling from sustained fire will do the same thing. You can be using a spotless, highly maintained gun, get into a hairy situation or have to fire it a frequent number of times, and chances are it's going to jam on you.

Also, the original M4's barrel overheated rapidly, leading to cookoff, and melting the plastic foregrip (it only took about 100 rounds through the barrel to do so), and the military had to use a heavier barrel for the M4 to fix this. And the M16 and its variants are also known to spontaneously explode in your face for no reason.

The M16 and it's variants have been proven time and time again to have a higher failure rate than other assault rifles.

In the Fall of 2007 the XM8 was compared to other firearms in a 'dust test.' The competition was based on two previous tests that were conducted in Summer 2006 and Summer 2007 before the latest test in the Fall of 2007. In the Summer 2007 test, M16 rifles and M4 carbines recorded a total of 307 stoppages. In the Fall 2007 test, the XM8 recorded only 127 stoppages in 60,000 total rounds while the M4 carbine had 882. The FN SCAR had 226 stoppages and the HK416 had 733. The difference between the XM8, HK416, and FN SCAR was not statistically significant when correcting for the less reliable STANAG magazine. However, the discrepancy of 575 stoppages between the Summer and Fall 2007 tests of the M4 had Army officials looking into possible causes for the change such as different officials, seasons, and inadequate sample pool size but have stated that the conditions of the test were ostensibly the same. The Army countered the controversy surrounding the M4 by stating, in essence, that troops are generally satisfied with the M4. However respondents indicated in independent interviews quoted in Congress that they would much prefer the M4-derivative HK416 or the XM8 which it builds on.

[Guest Julius Quasar]

A friend of mine once made a "zip-gun" (that's a working home-made firearm).

[ThePointingMan]

The bullet hose, such a great gun... not a real one, airsoft, but still.

It's a SMG airsoft gun that (I have 2 for duel weilding) it shoots so many bullets, but you can literally watch them come at you and slow down, and then just step to the side.

[Zicka]

All it takes is a little bit of grime to get into the internal workings of the M16 and it's variants, and it will jam. Excessive fouling from sustained fire will do the same thing. You can be using a spotless, highly maintained gun, get into a hairy situation or have to fire it a frequent number of times, and chances are it's going to jam on you.

Also, the original M4's barrel overheated rapidly, leading to cookoff, and melting the plastic foregrip (it only took about 100 rounds through the barrel to do so), and the military had to use a heavier barrel for the M4 to fix this. And the M16 and its variants are also known to spontaneously explode in your face for no reason.

The M16 and it's variants have been proven time and time again to have a higher failure rate than other assault rifles.

Being an owner of an AR I can tell you that the chances of it jamming are no worse than any other firearm if you aren't a newb and take care of it properly.

The overheating barrel is ages old, been fixed, so I don't even know why you brought it up.

And now I know you are merely quoting obscure myths surrounding the AR or just simple outdated information. Spontaneously explode? That's completely unheard of, and you make it sound as if AR's are exploding left and right. If the AR had a chance of exploding because of a *design flaw* then it would have been recalled already. Now I'm starting to wonder if you've even handled or fired one.

[Vy'drach]

Yes, I have, a friend of mine builds them, and I fired one of his last time I went to the range. And as I said, the M16 and M4 is fine for range and varmint shooting, in that situation the jamming doesn't really come in to play. I highly doubt you have taken your AR into a battlefield situation, where mud and dirt and Lord knows what else is flying through the air and getting into your gun's workings. It is a proven fact that it is highly prone to jamming in battle, more so than most other guns.

And I said the overheating barrel was a problem that was fixed, but it was a problem still, for a long time, and was a serious one at that.

And the M16 is known to explode randomly, more so than most weapons. My father was a drill sergeant in the Army, and he saw the M16 blow up in a man's face, and kill him, and that isn't an isolated incident, it happens quite frequently. There was no reason for it to do so, it was clean and maintained, it just spontaneously exploded.

Granted I have only ever fired one once (and wasn't too impressed), I can pretty much guarantee my father has dealt with the M16 more than you ever will, and he hates the thing. It had two positives to it, in his eyes: It is easy to field strip, and it had a high fire rate. Now, however, it doesn't even have that (Unless you get an original M16 or an M16A4). Other than those two things, however, he hated it. Why? Because it's a piece of shit gun, has always been a piece of shit gun, and always will be as long as it uses that operating system.

Also, the civilian AR's tend to be higher quality than the Military, since the Civilian ones aren't produced as cheaply as possible because they are needed in bulk. The CIA put out their annual findings of the world's economy, and America was dead last. Ethiopia has more money than America, and because of that you can't expect the highest quality and most state-of-the-art equipment.

[Tiberius]

Guns are a weapon that only responsible people should hold. If one think it's responsible to use to only kill someone, they are irresponsible. If they use it to defend and for target practice, they are responsible.

Which reminds me: Balloted squirrel = Target practice.

[DZComposer]

The CIA put out their annual findings of the world's economy, and America was dead last. Ethiopia has more money than America, and because of that you can't expect the highest quality and most state-of-the-art equipment.

I find that difficult to believe. While the US may not be the most financially sound country in the developed world, to say it is the worst in the entire world sounds off to me. Got a link to that study?

[Vy'drach]

I find that difficult to believe. While the US may not be the most financially sound country in the developed world, to say it is the worst in the entire world sounds off to me. Got a link to that study?

It's been a while, so it may take some time to find it again (assuming it's still out there), and what I said may be misleading. America has people with a lot of money, but as far as the government itself, America is in so much debt that it is dead last in money.

Unless I dreamed the entire thing, which, believe it or not, has happened before (though I am pretty certain I didn't)

[Asper Sarnoff]

Going off topic a little here, but is it just me or is absolutely every single country in the world deep in debt on the governemental level? 

So far, the only one I know for sure has a solid reserve is Norway, because of all the oil, and if we started to take from that fund, we would spiral into a huge inflation crisis where our money wouldn't be worth anything.

[Robert Monroe]

It's been a while, so it may take some time to find it again (assuming it's still out there), and what I said may be misleading. America has people with a lot of money, but as far as the government itself, America is in so much debt that it is dead last in money.

Unless I dreamed the entire thing, which, believe it or not, has happened before (though I am pretty certain I didn't)

Greece says hi.

[Guest Julius Quasar]

Automatic rifles are great weapons, but if a guy with an automatic rifle is up against a sniper with a good sniper rifle, the sniper would win, provided the sniper is in a proper targeting position.

[Robert Monroe]

Automatic rifles are great weapons, but if a guy with an automatic rifle is up against a sniper with a good sniper rifle, the sniper would win, provided the sniper is in a proper targeting position.

[Matt Macdowel]

The M16 is definitely light, comfortable, and ergonomic (I've held and practiced at my friend's place in Nevada, with his semi-auto civilian version of it, the AR-15).  Not my cup of tea, though....I like the M-14, or the M-1 Garand.

true but the m-16 overheats to quick or something like that and personal i perfure sniper rifles.

But hasn't there beena sniper pistal made yet???

[Mr. Foxer]

true but the m-16 overheats to quick or something like that and personal i perfure sniper rifles.

But hasn't there beena sniper pistal made yet???

The M-16 does not overheat .

[Vy'drach]

true but the m-16 overheats to quick or something like that and personal i perfure sniper rifles.

But hasn't there beena sniper pistal made yet???

It wasn't the M16 itself that overheated, but the M4, and they had to supply them with heavier barrels to fix the problem (And the official main reason they didn't take the XM8 was that it was a bit heavier than it was supposed to be *but it was still lighter than the M4*so now it is even heavier).

People have put scopes on pistols, but they are not "sniper" pistols as what makes a sniper is a powerful round with decent range, and a long barrel for increased accuracy. Pistols very rarely get up to 12 inch barrels (4-6 is the average), and they still fire the standard pistol rounds, which don't have that great of a range.

Greece says hi.

I am part Greek, by the way, and when the CIA announcement came out, America was dead last, as in every country on the planet was ahead.

[Kursed]

Personnly I prefure laser guns like the star war s E-11 or Dc-15 series.

but if you going to go into  real weapons nothing beats a Gatling gun