Official SF-O TF2 Server (DEPRECATED)

[DZComposer]

Scouts are now class limited at two. It wasn't just that game that led to the decision. There has been a lot of scout play lately, and it is getting to the point where the fun of the game is being threatened. Especially when everyone who plays scout on this server spawn camps.

I'm sorry, but this isn't a pro 6v6 server. No team on this server is ever coordinated enough to deal with three or more decent scouts.

["User"]

Ah, alright.

[DZComposer]

Ugh I really need to show up on a Friday or Saturday more...I think I have been getting some decent training in with the Pyro too so maybe I wont be so awful.

Also...this is probably a dumb question, but are other pyros resistant to fire? Because it seems whenever I attack one with the flame thrower they seem to not have the burning "damage over time" effect on them which hurts me almost as much as picking a fight with a scout at long range.

Rule #1 of Pyro: Don't run directly at the enemy, spraying flames from midrage. This strategy will lead to your death. A LOT. Yet, it is so common among newer players it has a name: W+M1. W is the W key: Walk forward. M1 is Mouse 1, primary fire. Pyro is an ambush class. Get close before they see you and then burn them.

Rule #2: DO NOT rely on afterburn to do your damage. Direct flames do quite a bit of damage, and when you get an axetinguisher, you can puff and sting and quickly kill just about anything, provided you get close. The pyro's secondary weapon is not so secondary. Much like the Demo with his sticky launcher, you will be using your secondary as a second primary. Learn that shotgun, or if you want, the flare gun. Flare Gun crits burning enemies, but by picking it, you are pretty much forfeiting any Pyro Vs Pyro situations you encounter where the other guy has the shotgun.

Pyros are immune to afterburn. Also, medics, scouts, snipers, other pyros, and dispensers can put out burning people. Spies also have the Dead Ringer and the Spycicle, which can put out afterburn. Because of these things, afterburn is not reliable.

Rule #3: Use Airblast. Mouse 2 (alt fire) is your airblast. Not only is it useful for blowing away rockets and stickies, it puts teammates who are on fire out. It can also blow the enemy back. Great to keep them off the point, or away from the intel. You can even blow back ubers.

If you don't yet have them, get yourself a degreaser and an axetinguisher ASAP. The degreaser's weapon switch time makes managing your multiple weapon strategy work better.

Drats, means i'll have to learn to aim better with the pyro in that case XD ...either that or learn to use the shotgun better. Never can seem to get much damage out with it though as it seems just about everything is more effective than the shotgun

The Shotgun is muy importante to the pyro. Learn to use it. Not only will it make you a better pyro, it will make you a better scout, a better soldier, and a better engie.

[Firebug]

If I were able to play I might take him under my wing and show him a few Pyro pointers. As it is I can't play a single round without rubberbanding every few seconds, forcing me back a step for every two I take forward.

If I get my connection problem taken care of I'll drop in and check out how the server has been with the auto-assign in place. That is, if you guys'll have me. :|

[The Shaper]

If I get my connection problem taken care of I'll drop in and check out how the server has been with the auto-assign in place. That is, if you guys'll have me.

SF-O is a community for everyone, unless you have a porn spray that is.

[Gene Inari]

SF-O is a community for everyone, unless you have a furry spray that is.

Fix'd

[The Shaper]

Fix'd

We should've banned you, User, and LoneWolf long ago then :U

[Robert Monroe]

If I were able to play I might take him under my wing and show him a few Pyro pointers. As it is I can't play a single round without rubberbanding every few seconds, forcing me back a step for every two I take forward.

If I get my connection problem taken care of I'll drop in and check out how the server has been with the auto-assign in place. That is, if you guys'll have me.

FIREBUG

I STILL <3 U

COME BACK <3

["User"]

FIREBUG

I STILL <3 U

COME BACK <3

I miss him AND playing you with (when you don't have 5 FPS) on a regular basis. <3

[Vy'drach]

Also, sroberson, don't let anyone tell you otherwise, the Backburner is not a shitty pyro weapon, it is a situationally awesome weapon. It does things no other flamethrower can do, namely killing three heavies and two medics before they can even say "Fire! Fire!"

The airblast cost isn't that big of a deal if you're good at reflecting rockets/grenades, as you hit the enemy with the rocket/grenade, and finish them with fire or the shotgun, and pick up their weapon to replenish your fuel. It encourages proper Pyro gameplay in the hands of someone who thinks (IE, not the people who saw the extra 10% damage and decided to W+M1 at a Heavy).

Get to an ambush location, wait for a good opening, and listen to the lovely sound of "Didididididididididing." Puff-n-Sting is almost guaranteed death against one enemy, Backburner is almost guaranteed death against a lot, if you can out map them.

And remember, you CAN extinguish teammates. It's not a bad weapon, it's not a scrub weapon, when used in the situations it's designed for, it is the most devastating thing the Pyro has to offer. Learn it, love it, enrage the enemy team.

I wanted to get that out there before some folks started filling your head with "Never equip the Backburner" nonsense. Just because 90% of Pyros use it wrong, does not mean it's the weapon's fault.

[Firebug]

Ooh, a chance for debate.

Backburner has more offensive power than the stock flamer, that much is true. But guaranteed crits within a 90-degree angle doesn't seem worth the tradeoff. Pyro is classified as an offensive class, but it's the least offensive of the three. Demo and Heavy fill an offensive role better than Pyro does, and they're defensive classes.

Pyro is such a complex class that there is no general rule for what the class should do. Ask three people what a Pyro should be doing at any given time and you're likely to be given three different answers. Personally, I (as well as a number of competitive Pyros and knowledgeable individuals on discussion boards) see the Pyro more as a disruptive-support class. I'll take your Backburner advice into consideration. You claim that the Backburner is for ambushing, and that the user should lie in ambush for an opportune moment. You call that good strategy, but I see it more as the Pyro analog to the typical Camp-and-Dagger Spy. In the time you take waiting to ambush a small group (and I say small because you won't take out a group larger than three or so unless they're severely bottlenecked with their backs at the perfect angle to you), a more supportive Pyro could have Spy-checked, defended the Engy's nest, helped the Heavy-Medic with their push (while Spy-checking them or keeping spam away), kept enemies off the point, etc.

TF2 is a close range game and the Pyro is a close range class, but the problem here is that the other classes can deal much more damage in the same amount of time, with weapons that are much easier to use. Scattergun is point-and-click. Rocket Launcher is lead and click. Flamethrower requires you to hold the mouse down at the proper angle to ensure that particles hit, because the particles are slow, invisible, and don't match the visible fire being emitted from the weapon. Of those three, only the Pyro is severely impeded from having to dodge and strafe in midcombat. Scout and Soldier have more mobility and damage potential, and that's something the Pyro just doesn't have.

I won't try to mislead any newbies who read this. I WILL tell you to leave the Backburner behind, because it's not nonsense. Backburner was a weapon introduced to aid a playstyle that the Pyro just isn't capable of performing adequately. I'm not saying that the Pyro is MEANT to be a combo-using attack-reflecting burst damage reactionary class. It's just that the Pyro has weapons that aid in that playstyle. The Backburner isn't meant for direct combat. It is meant for ambushing and flanking, but doing so is rarely helpful to the team. You'll get key targets and smart players once or twice before they wisen up, but then you'll be near-useless against them. And any players who fall for your ambushes repeatedly aren't worth the time to ambush, because I doubt they're a serious threat to your team.

["User"]

Yeah...Degreaser and axtinguisher + Flaregun or shotgun seems to be the two main builds that good Pyros use.

[Vy'drach]

Backburner is a much better defensive weapon than offensive.

I'm not saying to just sit there and camp, and camp, and camp, but plan ahead, stratergize. I can see enemies moving in, see their probable entrance route, and set myself up for them to have a nasty surprise. One of the best places for this is the payload map that has the tunnel right outside BLU spawn, to the left. The amount of times I've killed 6 or so people off the cart by jumping down behind them on the upper ledge while they were distracted by teammates is amazing. On 2fort I roast enemies left, right, and center, and when there's no enemies about, I patrol the hallways spychecking, especially on Engie nests. When you find a Spy, they tend to run, and die immediately due to crits.

Backburner requires map awareness, and fancy footwork.

Another great place for it, is 2fort. Jump off the battlements behind that Heavy/Medic, and roast their asses. Or get people from the grate, or off the courtyard. You find good ambush places, and utilize them when you know enemies are incoming. Otherwise, you Pyro on as normal. As long as you don't need to SPAM airblasts, you're generally fine. Backburner does things Puff-n-Sting can't even dream of doing at times. If a Degreaser/Axtinguisher Pyro comes behind six or so enemies, he can kill one, maybe two, three if he's incredibly lucky and they have the reaction time and awareness of roadkill, but the Backburner has a decent chance of killing most if not all, and what isn't dead is seriously wounded, and has to fall back. You play to the Backburner strengths. CTF and Payload are great Backburner modes, KOTH can be depending on the map, and CP isn't usually, except on a few maps. You plan accordingly. It's a situationally amazing weapon that will beat any other Pyro loadout by itself in that situation, but it requires a bit of a brain, and good map awareness, and the sense to not use it in places/situations where that situation will not present itself.

[Firebug]

One of the best places for this is the payload map that has the tunnel right outside BLU spawn, to the left.

That would be Goldrush. It and 2fort aren't the most balanced of maps to begin with.

You claim that the weapon requires map awareness and fancy footwork, both of which factor into gamesense. That's not something that the typical newbie has an abundance of, no offense intended to sroberson.

We seem to be a bit off-topic here. Instead of arguing whether or not the Backburner is a bad weapon, we should have been discussing what weapon a newbie Pyro would benefit most from using. That's why I'll concede for now. Use the Backburner for now, you'll do better with it. Just try not to fall into bad habits. Vy said to play to the Backburner's strengths. With Pyromania's buff to stock damage the only strength the Backburner has is the back crits, so unless you're constantly getting behind people you would do better with another primary.

And if you are getting behind people on a regular basis, you might as well play Spy.

If you are adamant on playing Pyro though, I would recommend avoiding the Backburner. You can only do so well with it without relying on enemy stupidity, and more advanced Pyro play can only be seen with either the stock flamethrower, or the Degreaser. There's a reason why the "pros" use those weapons nearly exclusively.

[Vy'drach]

Spy can't kill 6+ people at once, son. Backburner is in its own category of flanking death dealer. Don't use the Backburner as a newbie, as it's not that good in the hands of someone who doesn't know the maps or know how to read enemy's advances. As you build familiarity and start finding yourself properly flanking enemies, then it starts to shine. But for starters, Puff-n-Sting is probably the best bet. ANYONE can get kills with Puff-n-Sting, and you can just spam airblast until one clicks (though don't do that, as it's important to learn consistent airblasts than to hope for the best).

Also, the increased Backburner's airblast cost is such an overexaggerated downside, that a good airblaster hardly needs to worry about it. Like I said, unless you need to SPAM airblast, it's not a big deal.

[Firebug]

Vy, I'll let you know that Puff and Sting is NOT for starters. It leaves you entirely defenseless and renders you incapable of dealing with more than one person at a time. If it's your solve-all for when you encounter someone then you're playing with bad players. Same goes for "spamming" airblast. Airblast delay is around the same as the Rocket Launcher's, and is slower than grenades. You can't spam and be effective at all, you'll just screw yourself over. Badburner is terrible for reflecting or any of the airblast's support/utility functions.

Increased cost IS a downside. With the lack of increased quickswitch, you can be heckled so easily by a projectile class. This means that Backburner reflects are only viable at mid-to-long range, and good luck grabbing any weapon pickups then. I'd like to call myself a good airblaster, and I'm sure a number of others here would agree. I can tell you from experience that the Backburner is a bad choice in general, for both newbies and veterans. It's good to learn the basics, but if you don't trade up to a more capable weapon then you'll just be gimping yourself.

[LoneWolf]

We should've banned you, User, and LoneWolf long ago then :U

[Thu'um]

Spy can't kill 6+ people at once, son.

name to me when a pyro has done such, besides as a spy i think i'm every bit as leathal from behind as any pyro if not more.

We should've banned you, User, and LoneWolf long ago then :U

http://raptorsrepubl...012/04/clap.gif

i advocate this!

[Vy'drach]

At what point did I say it was my "solve-all?" I haven't done Puff-n-Sting in so long because I found it to be so incredibly easy to do to kill people. It was so incredibly boring that I hated it, even while topping the boards, and I play Pyro to burn things, not melee them. That being said, back when I seriously played TF2 and played Pyro a lot, I didn't have any issue redirecting at close range, with the Backburner.

And perhaps I should elaborate. By spamming I mean needing to use airblast more than twice in a single encounter. I don't mean mashing M2.

Increased cost is only a downside when you need to do it more than twice in a short period of time. I usually need to use it 0-1 time in an encounter. Otherwise, I've run headfirst into the enemy team, and I'm not going to do anything there but redirect as I back out, at which case there's plenty of dispeners and ammo boxes.

I can tell you from my experience, playing with some god-tier players, that it is not a bad choice, and is in fact the king weapon in the right situation, and these are not "once-in-a-blue-moon" situations, but can occur rather frequently. And I mean the king weapon, not the king Pyro weapon. There is nothing with the capability to instill that much death to that many people in such a short perioud of time. In those situations, the Degreaser, Phlogistinator, and Stock Flamethrower get completely, totally, unequivocally, shit on. All it takes is map awareness and a bit of brain power. Is it a starter weapon? No. Is it a very versatile weapon, not so much, though it's not as gimped as people make it out to be. Is it a go-to weapon? Not really, it requires planning and foresight. Is it a bad weapon? Not a fucking chance, it's just been tarnished by W+M1 idiots who saw the 10% extra damage and decide to run in, spewing flames everywhere.

Puff-n-Sting may require more button pushing and seem more intense because of it, but in the time it takes to kill a couple of people with it, Backburner can kill four (or five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, or more, if the server has that many slots set up) people, while you can cackle like a madman and shout your plans of burning all the infidels with your righteous fire. Most people die within the time it takes them to realize "Oh, I'm being set ablaze from behind and it's really hurting."

I wanted to say to sroberson that the Backburner is not a bad weapon, and is in fact a fantastic weapon in the right hands and place. If it's not to your liking of your playstyle, that's one thing, but don't dismiss it because other people tell you it's bad.

Also:

name to me when a pyro has done such, besides as a spy i think i'm every bit as leathal from behind as any pyro if not more.

Learn to read, boy, I've done it plenty of times with my Backburner. A spy has to kill multiple people in a row, the Backburner kills multiple people all at once.

[Icy]

I get where Vy is coming from, but seriously, your claims are ridiculous. The backburner CAN kill 6 people at once, but that only happens on noob teams pushing the cart, all lined up.

You can also go W+M1 with the backburner against okay teams and pwn everyone. I've done it very recently just to see if it still worked. But that ONLY works against noob teams. Backburner vs a good team? Haha... funny joke. :D

[Thu'um]

Learn to read, boy, I've done it plenty of times with my Backburner. A spy has to kill multiple people in a row, the Backburner kills multiple people all at once.

i don't know if you crediable. Especially if your managing to get that many kills in a row. Indicating that your playing on sissy servers,( with noobs as icy said) especially since you never seem to play with us.....

I recognize the back burner as the ability to do this, but in actual use, its not nearly as practicle. Duel Fire bug, or even better try to match his points in a round, while on the same team.

[Firebug]

Stuff

That's just... no. No. I'm done here.

I'll just let SF-O decide, and let sroberson determine for himself.

And I'll let you guys get back to Vy and me on this and hand down your verdict.

Until next time, guys.

[Vy'drach]

I get where Vy is coming from, but seriously, your claims are ridiculous. The backburner CAN kill 6 people at once, but that only happens on noob teams pushing the cart, all lined up.

You can also go W+M1 with the backburner against okay teams and pwn everyone. I've done it very recently just to see if it still worked. But that ONLY works against noob teams. Backburner vs a good team? Haha... funny joke.

You just wait till they're distracted. Like I said, by the time most people realize they're being flamethrowered after they've locked their focus onto one of your teammates, it's too late for them.I

You won't always catch 6 people like that, but when you do, you just obliterated half the enemy team by yourself with teammates as an assist at best, but just as a distraction. Usually you catch 2-3, and you clear them faster than Puff-n-Sting can. Puff-n-Sting has it's place, don't get me wrong, and it's the more versatile set-up, but Backburner isn't the "training" Flamethrower that you toss away as Firebug is claiming. It remains strong and often times the pinnacle.

And Ajc, it's the Legion of Ponies servers, which, no offense to SF-O here, but the regulars on LoP when I played on there were on a whole different tier of skill level than SF-O, from what I've seen of SF-O. It was a common joke on there that people would be on a Valve server and feel like a god amongst men, but they come to LoP and feel like they're playing the game for the first time. Three names I remember because other folks tended to change their name up or had weird ass names, were Nictendo, Storb, and Benny Burnsalot. Nictendo was so good he usually seemed to be aimbotting, but he wasn't. Storb was that Soldier that would literally pop people up with the Direct Hit and airshot them, every damned time, and Benny was a Proro god that you literally could not use projectiles against, unless you caught him off guard. There were many others, but like I said, I can't recall their names.

Meanwhile, last time I played on SF-O, it was "Don't be Heavy, Vy, Heavy too OP." Regardless of me being at less than half-health for several minutes, and at one point someone walked around the corner as a soldier, fired 4 rockets, and dealt 0 damage from fifteen feet.

Not to say my post is "I played with pro people so y'all suck." Just that I played with lots of incredibly good people so it's not just abusing noobs.

[Gene Inari]

I still refuse to believe NOT A SINGLE PERSON, OUT OF THIS MAGICALLY DUMB GROUP OF SIX, has the presence of mind to be aware enough to check their backs ala spy-checking. Anyone that falls for a Backburner trap more than once is dumb and deserves to be badburned.

Backburner is too situational to be better than Degreaser. Give me something OTHER than 6 people looking the wrong way.

[The Shaper]

I may come back ONLY for the Halloween event...

And then you will enjoy that and stick around for longer