Gaydar/Lesdar (intuitive sense)

[Vy'drach]

I will agree the sig thing is a bit annoying. After all, the only issue I had with Dermot was posting relationship images in places and ways they can't be avoided, and every now and again I have the misfortune to catch those images in his sig.

Everything else is fine with me, however. We have a large amount of Krystal topics, and not everyone likes Krystal (Dermot included). You don't like this kind of topic, avoid it, unless it's breaking rules. If he were to be hiding topics and posts however, so people that aren't interested can't just avoid them, that'd be another matter.

[Dermot]

So suddenly it's about me, is it?

Sabre, please do get over it.  I'm trying to have casual discussion here in a positive social environment.  And if I recall, you never like my topics anyway.

Milkyway64, you seem to think I'm rather obsessed over my own sexuality.  To be honest, this doesn't reflect that as much as my environment.  I have plenty of friends, and we talk about all sorts of stuff, and this is one of the things we talk about frequently.  It's interesting.  So I discuss it as it interests me.  Casually, and within the rules as I understand them.  If someone wants to join in, they'll join in.  If they're not interested, they'll move on.  Also, Star Fox SNES is my Star Fox - it's what makes me a Star Fox fan.

TSA~User, believe it or not I've been trying to heed your advice. XD After awhile of trying to come up with many non-gay topics, I inevitably come back to this.  it's just a normal part of my regular daily interest topic pool. :3 And yes I've heard your laser tag metaphors. :3

Vydrach is rather right that some things can be superficially annoying to some people.  For instance, virtually every official artwork of Krystal. But no one's going to hide anything like that.

I have my own interests, and I like to share them.  Though in all honesty, I don't see why the occasional gay fanart should be so unpleasant to everyone.  Imagine what it's like for me to frequently see men kiss women on TV, in film, in public, etc.  It does nothing for me, and has always been weird.  But guess what - I tolerate it.  What's good for the goose...  Don't take it for granted without granting others the same privilege. XD Don't you realize that straight people talk about their sexuality all the time too?  Any time they mention how pretty a girl is, or having a girlfriend, or a wife, or having photos on their desk, and all that.  It's ubiquitous, yet invisible if it's ordinary to you.  Let me be my ordinary, normal, mundane self. :3 Besides, I'm never normally subtle enough to pass for straight or straight-acting. If someone asks me to straight-act (not be so conspicuously gay) for their comfort, I can't do it.  I'm just me, the person who I am.

Now, in all honesty, I thought we were past this.  I still toy with the idea of inviting more of my female and gay friends to register here, to help mix things up. :3 (I know fans who are hesitant to come to fan forums like these because you can't turn your head without spotting Krystal, and it angers them or makes them uncomfortable.)  But before I consider doing that, the communal discomfort factor would have to become more muted, if it won't go away entirely.  That's a gradual process, and it takes good will and acclimation.

[Sabre]

So suddenly it's about me, is it?

Sabre, please do get over it.  I'm trying to have casual discussion here in a positive social environment.  And if I recall, you never like my topics anyway.

Milkyway64, you seem to think I'm rather obsessed over my own sexuality.  To be honest, this doesn't reflect that as much as my environment.  I have plenty of friends, and we talk about all sorts of stuff, and this is one of the things we talk about frequently.  It's interesting.  So I discuss it as it interests me.  Casually, and within the rules as I understand them.  If someone wants to join in, they'll join in.  If they're not interested, they'll move on.  Also, Star Fox SNES is my Star Fox - it's what makes me a Star Fox fan.

TSA~User, believe it or not I've been trying to heed your advice. XD After awhile of trying to come up with many non-gay topics, I inevitably come back to this.  it's just a normal part of my regular daily interest topic pool. :3 And yes I've heard your laser tag metaphors. :3

Vydrach is rather right that some things can be superficially annoying to some people.  For instance, virtually every official artwork of Krystal. But no one's going to hide anything like that.

I have my own interests, and I like to share them.  Though in all honesty, I don't see why the occasional gay fanart should be so unpleasant to everyone.  Imagine what it's like for me to frequently see men kiss women on TV, in film, in public, etc.  It does nothing for me, and has always been weird.  But guess what - I tolerate it.  What's good for the goose...  Don't take it for granted without granting others the same privilege. XD Don't you realize that straight people talk about their sexuality all the time too?  Any time they mention how pretty a girl is, or having a girlfriend, or a wife, or having photos on their desk, and all that.  It's ubiquitous, yet invisible if it's ordinary to you.  Let me be my ordinary, normal, mundane self. :3 Besides, I'm never normally subtle enough to pass for straight or straight-acting. If someone asks me to straight-act (not be so conspicuously gay) for their comfort, I can't do it.  I'm just me, the person who I am.

Now, in all honesty, I thought we were past this.  I still toy with the idea of inviting more of my female and gay friends to register here, to help mix things up. :3 (I know fans who are hesitant to come to fan forums like these because you can't turn your head without spotting Krystal, and it angers them or makes them uncomfortable.)  But before I consider doing that, the communal discomfort factor would have to become more muted, if it won't go away entirely.  That's a gradual process, and it takes good will and acclimation.

We reason we seem obsessed is that it's completly unavoidable as you won't stop talking about it.

As for a Krystal images, fair enough, but again, I don't recall anyone who has a barrage of Krystal X Fox pics for their sig.

And of course, claiming that we disagree with you 'because your gay' and not because you point is invalid, hyporcirical or whatever is just stupid. It reminds me of Ali G

I made a thread about it so I won't say more here.

http://forums.starfox-online.net/index.php?topic=7150.0

[Vy'drach]

So suddenly it's about me, is it?

Sabre, please do get over it.  I'm trying to have casual discussion here in a positive social environment.  And if I recall, you never like my topics anyway.

Milkyway64, you seem to think I'm rather obsessed over my own sexuality.  To be honest, this doesn't reflect that as much as my environment.  A have plenty of friends, and we talk about all sorts of stuff, and this is one of the things we talk about frequently.  It's interesting.  So I discuss it as it interests me.  Casually, and within the rules as I understand them.  If someone wants to join in, they'll join in.  If they're not interested, they'll move on.  Also, Star Fox SNES is my Star Fox - it's what makes me a Star Fox fan.

TSA~User, believe it or not I've been trying to heed your advice. XD After awhile of trying to come up with many non-gay topics, I inevitably come back to this.  it's just a normal part of my regular daily interest topic pool. :3

Vydrach is rather right that some things can be superficially annoying to people.  For instance, virtually every official artwork of Krystal. But no one's going to hide anything like that.

I have my own interests, and I like to share them.  Though in all honesty, I don't see why the occasional gay fanart should be so unpleasant to everyone.  Imagine what it's like for me to frequently see men kiss women on TV, in film, in public, etc.  It does nothing for me, and has always been weird.  But guess what - I tolerate it.  What's good for the goose...  Don't take it for granted without granting others the same privilege. XD Don't you realize that straight people talk about their sexuality all the time too?  Any time they mention how pretty a girl is, or having a girlfriend, or a wife, or having photos on their desk, and all that.  It's ubiquitous, yet invisible if it's ordinary to you.  Let me be my ordinary, normal, mundane self. :3 Besides, I'm never normally subtle enough to pass for straight or straight-acting. If someone asks me to straight-act (not be so conspicuously gay) for their comfort, I can't do it.  I'm just me, the person who I am.

Now, in all honesty, I thought we were past this.  I still toy with the idea of inviting more of my female and gay friends to register here, to help mix things up. :3 (I know fans who are hesitant to come to fan forums like these because you can't turn your head without spotting Krystal, and it angers them or makes them uncomfortable.)  But before I consider doing that, the communal discomfort factor would have to become more muted, if it won't go away entirely.  That's a gradual process, and it takes good will and acclimation.

Well remember that my beef was the relationship side of the artwork placed in areas where you didn't know not to look, and by time you realized what it was, it was too late to avoid it. If I remember, wasn't relationship type art meant to be put in links according to a new rule? Anyway, it wasn't the gayness of the artwork, though that did make it a bit more uncomfortable since it added something I couldn't fully understand, same way I imagine you don't and likely wont understand completely a woman being attractive. Anyway, it was just the relationship art that got me.

And granted Krystal does turn up a lot, but that tends to happen in Krystal specific threads. Granted several people have Krystal avatars, but you have your own avatar as well, which is baraa, if I'm not mistaken?

Essentially though, I don't want/need to see Fox and Falco hugging each other while naked. And I know of images of Krystal that have been removed from the site for things similar to this, such as one Sabre posted before, I believe, of Renamon and Krystal swapping clothes (Renamon wears only gloves, mind you). Nothing "naughty" was shown, but the.... suggestion was enough to warrant a removal. And if that was enough, how could Fox and Falco hugging each other in the nude not be enough?

[Dermot]

My personal avatar is not bara.  It's just me.  Bara (Japanese for "rose flower") means strong, masculine, attractive men that appeal to gay people.  The picture of Falco's muscled-out back in my collage is a general-rated example.  Actually, come to think of it, you're right - my avatar is very tame bara.  Shoulder muscles and all.

And Fox and Falco aren't naked when they're hugging.  If you pay attention, they both have all their pants on.  They're just not wearing their shirts.  If they were a man and a woman or two women, this would be racy.  But for men, it's perfectly fine for any otherwise ordinary combination of men to not be wearing shirts.  It's sweet, not adult.  Even I never wear a shirt unless I absolutely have to, both IRL and in character.

Also, I thought the suggestion to link-only all relationship art was just a temporary idea that isn't really necessary anymore (there were reasons for this I won't reveal without a certain someone else's permission).  Besides, I switched over to thumbnailing most of the art I link to, and the corner picture in my sig is thumbnail-sized.  It is a perfectly appropriate representation of some of my greatest interests - and I screened every thumbnail in advance before compiling the collage.

And Sabre, please just leave me alone.  You seem to have a serious issue with me.  But at this point, what you have to add isn't even theoretically helpful anymore - it's just griping.  I'm certain you're not going to be happy with me no matter what I do, because you don't like my personality.  If SFO had an individual user ignore feature, I'd be using it now, and I'd recommend it be mutual.  Until then, don't talk to me.  I never address you anymore anyway unless it's to try to reassure you, but you won't be reassured no matter what I say, so I'm done doing that.

Now, can we all get back to our normal everyday activities?

["User"]

TSA~User, believe it or not I've been trying to heed your advice. XD After awhile of trying to come up with many non-gay topics, I inevitably come back to this.  it's just a normal part of my regular daily interest topic pool. :3 And yes I've heard your laser tag metaphors. :3

Thanks   And yeah, we've discussed this at length on msn :)

[Dermot]

Thanks   And yeah, we've discussed this at length on msn

Don't you think I've been diversifying my topics more? :3

[ThePointingMan]

Blech, It's horrible, theres these 2 people, I now ones a girl, the other one... I have no idea, so theres one strike, dunno if the person is gay or not... Then theres this one guy, who apparently was "super gay" I didn't know and one time someone said it, an I said "he is?" and everyone started laughing at meh. Also more incedences, but the point is, mine is horrible.

[Dermot]

Read about it. :3 I always knew it was real...and now we know why. :3

So when my gaydar detects something special in Falco, Leon or Wolf, don't ridicule it. :friends:

[Ris Grestar]

Just want you to know that I was testing out my gaydar yesterday in the airport...I...didn't ever find out whether the people actually were gay or not, but still, I was thinking about this topic XD

[Dermot]

Just want you to know that I was testing out my gaydar yesterday in the airport...I...didn't ever find out whether the people actually were gay or not, but still, I was thinking about this topic XD

Apparently, gay and lesbian people are neurologically more detail-oriented than straight people. :3

[Milkyway64]

Something about this all just screams bullshit to me. Like otherwise innocent character details about yourself are being used to tell others who you'd like to bone.

Meh.

[Dermot]

That...is unbelievably inappropriate.  You managed to be insensitive, crude, offensive, trivializing, ridiculing, defamatory and sexually explicit all in one fell swoop.

[Guest FoXXX]

Wow, this thread went to Hell and back overnight

Anyway, my gaydar is sharp

[Sabre]

Something about this all just screams bullshit to me. Like otherwise innocent character details about yourself are being used to tell others who you'd like to bone.

Meh.

Indeed. There's also a hint of "Gays are superior" propergander in there to. The method also seems stupid. In short, I'm calling BS.

Jews payed less attention to detail than Israeli non-believers.

Dr Colzato said: 'This fits with the strong emphasis on social solidarity in both Catholicism and Orthodox Judaism.'

Ow.

[Ris Grestar]

Indeed. There's also a hint of "Gays are superior" propergander in there to. The method also seems stupid. In short, I'm calling BS.

I believe people can have a sense of sorts for noticing those kinds of traits.

[Sabre]

I believe people can have a sense of sorts for noticing those kinds of traits.

I disagree.

Most humans have 10 senses (iirc) and they all serve a vital purpose for functioning. Sences are always on and thus use energy. There is no reason for an always on detector for what a guy likes to do in the bedroom. The idea of noticing details is one of perception and attention. Deaf people have 'better' hearing, not because of an expanded range, but because they pay attention to it more.

Not only that, but the idea you can tell someones preference by the way they dress, move, talk or behave is much more offencive and sexual orantastion-ist(?) It's like saying "Blacks are savages" or "Cripples are dumb".

Additional. Instinct works, and works to a fault. When a person loses an instict due to injury for example, even if it would seem helpful, it's acctually very bad. With this we can assume most people who have a fully working 'gaydar', if that were true why have I been hit on by gay guys before, and why have people been shocked at the revelation I'm straight, but happen to hang around with a bunch of gays. I'm not exactly camp or fey. If gaydar existed, people wouldn't assume gay-ness by proximity.

[Ris Grestar]

I disagree.

Well then, let's hear what you have to say.

Most humans have 10 senses (iirc) and they all serve a vital purpose for functioning. Sences are always on and thus use energy. There is no reason for an always on detector for what a guy likes to do in the bedroom. The idea of noticing details is one of perception and attention. Deaf people have 'better' hearing, not because of an expanded range, but because they pay attention to it more.

I'll give you a point here.  You're right about the senses, so forgive me for referring to the gaydar as such.  It's not a sense, but rather more keen observation and possibly analytical skills allowing people to more accurately pick out homo- or bisexuals.

Not only that, but the idea you can tell someones preference by the way they dress, move, talk or behave is much more offencive and sexual orantastion-ist(?) It's like saying "Blacks are savages" or "Cripples are dumb".

It's called stereotyping.  While oftentimes stereotypes aren't true, why do you think they're there in the first place?  They're there because they exist--they're ways to make first judgments.  Obviously it's not always correct because everyone's different, but it's good for first-impressions and initial judgments.

[Sabre]

Seems you posted while I was editing. extra paragraph added, copy paste below.

Additional. Instinct works, and works to a fault. When a person loses an instict due to injury for example, even if it would seem helpful, it's acctually very bad. With this we can assume most people who have a fully working 'gaydar', if that were true why have I been hit on by gay guys before, and why have people been shocked at the revelation I'm straight, but happen to hang around with a bunch of gays. I'm not exactly camp or fey. If gaydar existed, people wouldn't assume gay-ness by proximity.

It's called stereotyping.  While oftentimes stereotypes aren't true, why do you think they're there in the first place?  They're there because they exist--they're ways to make first judgments.  Obviously it's not always correct because everyone's different, but it's good for first-impressions and initial judgments.

So, that's a steriotype, not any kind of intuitive sense. It's an assumption based on common social groups an culture. It's learned, not intuition.

[Ris Grestar]

Seems you posted while I was editing. extra paragraph added, copy paste below.

Ah, thank you.

Additional. Instinct works, and works to a fault. When a person loses an instict due to injury for example, even if it would seem helpful, it's acctually very bad. With this we can assume most people who have a fully working 'gaydar', if that were true why have I been hit on by gay guys before, and why have people been shocked at the revelation I'm straight, but happen to hang around with a bunch of gays. I'm not exactly camp or fey. If gaydar existed, people wouldn't assume gay-ness by proximity.

Why?  Because as you said, instinct works to a fault.  Seeing as you already know that, I don't feel I need to expand on it at this point.

So, that's a steriotype, not any kind of intuitive sense. It's an assumption based on common social groups an culture. It's learned, not intuition.

Ah, yes, but what can be learned one can already have a grasp on.

[Dermot]

I first read about this study in The Week Magazine, a mainstream news publication.

(I'm not speaking to anyone in particular here.)

When it comes to perception, gay people certainly can have a sense of identifying other gay people.  And there's nothing wrong with having this sense, even for strangers.  There's a difference between, on one hand, an intuitive sense of detail of gay people when the person with these senses is himself gay, and on the other hand, the ethnic and racial profiling of dissimilar peoples.

Treating gay people purely as a matter of sexual intercourse (rather than complex inalienable personal and cultural identities) is degrading, and underlies a belittling attitude that holds gay people in homophobic disdain, even while ostensibly claiming not to care.  If someone truly benignly did not care, they would at least practice basic human sensitivity rather than practice categorical hostility or passive aggression.  See, homophobia smells the same no matter what form it takes.  For everyone willing, education and mutual respect go a long way.

[Sabre]

Ah, thank you.

Why?  Because as you said, instinct works to a fault.  Seeing as you already know that, I don't feel I need to expand on it at this point.

Ah, yes, but what can be learned one can already have a grasp on.

Just giving an example of how it's not a sense or instict.

As for a learned behavior, you don't magically have a grasp on it no more then you magicly know how to drive a car, or how to fix a toilet ect. You can get better, more experienced at it, but that's it. If it was intuition, a guy with no prior knowlage of plumbing could walk up to that toilet and instantly fix it, or could see a car for the first time and know how to drive and maintain it.

[Ris Grestar]

Just giving an example of how it's not a sense or instict.

As for a learned behavior, you don't magically have a grasp on it no more then you magicly know how to drive a car, or how to fix a toilet ect. You can get better, more experienced at it, but that's it. If it was intuition, a guy with no prior knowlage of plumbing could walk up to that toilet and instantly fix it, or could see a car for the first time and know how to drive and maintain it.

In that sense, yes, it's impossible, but you're exaggerating the points that I'm trying to express.  Surely you've seen people before who just seem to have a knack for things, right?

[Sabre]

In that sense, yes, it's impossible, but you're exaggerating the points that I'm trying to express.  Surely you've seen people before who just seem to have a knack for things, right?

Yes, but they still have to learn the thing they are good at. They just pick it up quicker. Not that it matters, it's a case of symantics. Plus my original point was how the whole 'gays can spot details others can't to identify other gays' or some kind of gay 6th sence is rediculous, and I have already done that. If that was the case, see my earlier post.

[Ris Grestar]

Yes, but they still have to learn the thing they are good at. They just pick it up quicker. Not that it matters, it's a case of symantics. Plus my original point was how the whole 'gays can spot details others can't to identify other gays' or some kind of gay 6th sence is rediculous, and I have already done that. If that was the case, see my earlier post.

Wait, that really was the point you were trying to prove?  Why?  Dermot himself said that -everyone- can have a gaydar, not just other gays.