Love Life Talk

[Guest Julius Quasar]

Phil Collins.

Nuh-uh!  I think it was Diana Ross.

The dating scene sucks today, but, I guess that's no excuse to give up. =/

[Dermot]

Nuh-uh!  I think it was Diana Ross.

The dating scene sucks today, but, I guess that's no excuse to give up. =/

I was intentionally eu-trolling.

Strange, I've always had girls liking me. Reminds me of a poem:

the perfect man loves children and will raise them by your side

he will be a good father and good husband to his bride

the perfect man loves cooking, cleaning and vacuuming too

he'll do anything to convey his feelings of love for you

the perfect man is sweet, writing poetry from your name

he's a best friend to your mother and kisses away the pain

he has never made you cry or hurt you in any way

oh screw this stupid poem, the perfect man is gay

[Sabre]

So are you going to give up and complain that you can't find a special person or are you going to simply live normally? which is, give yourself time to focus on other things rather than finding a needle in a haystack?

I didn't realise it was an either or choice. Personally, I check the haystack whenever it is convienient to do so.

EDIT: A friend of mine said something great. We search for a needle where there isn't one, so we settle for a piece of hay. Also, he had a great way of phrasing what I was trying to say. Would you just sit back allow money, or work, or stuff to magicly find you?

I was intentionally eu-trolling.

Strange, I've always had girls liking me. Reminds me of a poem:

the perfect man loves children and will raise them by your side

he will be a good father and good husband to his bride

the perfect man loves cooking, cleaning and vacuuming too

he'll do anything to convey his feelings of love for you

the perfect man is sweet, writing poetry from your name

he's a best friend to your mother and kisses away the pain

he has never made you cry or hurt you in any way

oh screw this stupid poem, the perfect man is gay

The problem there is that women find gay guys sexy the same way straight guys like lesbians for some stupid reason. Let women assume I'm gay and they are all over me, when I say "I'm straight." they freak out as if a giant spider appeared on my face.

[Dermot]

The problem there is that women find gay guys sexy the same way straight guys like lesbians for some stupid reason. Let women assume I'm gay and they are all over me, when I say "I'm straight." they freak out as if a giant spider appeared on my face.

Well, not the same way.  Women often see gay men as non-threatening, and can be more comfortable around them.  But it's also that they can see gay men as more sensitive and having the qualities of a man that they wish more straight men had.

But in my case, it's not even that.  You see, women have been interested in me even when they didn't know I was gay.  Or maybe they figured it out anyway and just never said anything - as we all know, I'm not the most subtle flower in the bouquet - I'm a bit of a Paulie with shades of Taye, though with a body more like Arthur. :P

[Sabre]

I disagree with that. Let's say that was the case. Then after a bit of a chat they would have learned I was sensitive (HA! ...seriously though...), nice, caring, have a good beard ect. Why then, on the discovery of being straight, would they leap out of their seat and keep at arms legth as if I would eat them. Surely the opposate would be true? "This is a nice guy AND he's straight. Score!"

Also I don't read the circle. I did read Assosiate Student Bodies though. That's alright.

[rainfyre66]

I disagree with that. Let's say that was the case. Then after a bit of a chat they would have learned I was sensitive (HA! ...seriously though...), nice, caring, have a good beard ect. Why then, on the discovery of being straight, would they leap out of their seat and keep at arms legth as if I would eat them. Surely the opposate would be true? "This is a nice guy AND he's straight. Score!"

It must be the beard. Chicks don't dig mighty beards. 

But more likely, it's because like Dermot said, if you're gay, you're non-threatening. Plus, people always want what they can't have.

[Dermot]

Also I don't read the circle. I did read Assosiate Student Bodies though. That's alright.

ASB was too much of a blatant porno comic for my tastes.  It tries to have some good useful life messages, but it was still nearly wall-to-wall gay porno.  I prefer more depth, subtlety and organicity.  I mean, I have friends who are free-spirited casanovas (and I respect them in that especially if they have big hearts full of love), but ASB had every character sleeping with nearly everybody at least once, often with highly-detailed scenes.  That's not a story, that's a porn studio's production schedule.

Circles is about gay men's life experiences too (and had a shoutout to ASB in its issue #0), but everything in it is handled with exceptional organicity and realism (the characters being furry aside ).  And while I don't necessarily consider NC-17 an inherent drawback (some things are just too mature to show to kiddies while still having great worth), Circles has the advantage of every story being PG-13 or (at the very most) R.  It doesn't shy away from the things that happen in real life, but it manages to go into these things without either becoming a porno or indulging in excessive sanctimony.

It must be the beard. Chicks don't dig mighty beards. 

But more likely, it's because like Dermot said, if you're gay, you're non-threatening. Plus, people always want what they can't have.

I've grown a beard since 2005, but mostly for practical reasons (it's not really possible for me to shave anymore, since the hair follicles on my face grow in coarse in swirly patterns at a very oblique angle).  I try to keep it neat and clean, and have it trimmed whenever I go to the barber to get the rest of my hair trimmed.

[Sabre]

I'd agree on ASB somewhat. There is even a gay scene with a straight guy iirc. I wouldn't say it was porn as there was plot and character development there. It also has a great filler scene with the burping contest. "They may be gay, but they are still men." I do think that for 'essential furry reading' it falls far short of expectation. I think because it was one of the first by furry, for furry serious books out there it got it's reputation, much like RvB for machinima.

Maybe ASB tinted my expections, but any furry book or story I've read or heard about since is basicly "ASB but-". The circle is ASB but without the sex. Given that I have lots of other stuff to read and I've already read ASB, I don't see any point.

Finally, I find many of the issues these books deal with alienating. There's a scene in ...something I read (might have been ASB) where the main character is QQing over what it means to be a gay christian. As a straight atheist/agnostic, I really couldn't care about this apparently really big issue he was dealing with.

[Dermot]

Well, in fairness, I read Circles first.  I don't really compare everything to ASB. :lol:

[Steve]

I didn't realise it was an either or choice. Personally, I check the haystack whenever it is convienient to do so.

I didn't mean to make it a choice related post, I guess that just went into a whole different context.

So, on your own, non debatable terms, what's love? I keep stepping on what you would consider "Disney" crap while trying to pull what the majority of the world would consider "normal" without walking on biased opinions. I mean, while I do agree that the big screen pulls so many corny and crappy love stories that are 99.999% impossible to pull I really don't get why the "boy meets girl, they like each other, they get married, they spend their life together, get through a lot of crap without killing themselfs and die after having a fairly normal life" can't fit in your book, unless I'm wrong, for which, I apologize.  I mean, my only disagreement is that not everything related to "happy endings" should necessary fall into the "Disney" crap definition.

[Sabre]

I didn't mean to make it a choice related post, I guess that just went into a whole different context.

So, on your own, non debatable terms, what's love? I keep stepping on what you would consider "Disney" crap while trying to pull what the majority of the world would consider "normal" without walking on biased opinions. I mean, while I do agree that the big screen pulls so many corny and crappy love stories that are 99.999% impossible to pull I really don't get why the "boy meets girl, they like each other, they get married, they spend their life together, get through a lot of crap without killing themselfs and die after having a fairly normal life" can't fit in your book, unless I'm wrong, for which, I apologize.  I mean, my only disagreement is that not everything related to "happy endings" should necessary fall into the "Disney" crap definition.

What is love? Shouldn't someone have posted that 3 guys in a car meme I never got?

Right, you want to know what a non-debatable definition of love is? Love is an emotion that makes you feel good.

That's it. It's an emotion. The reason it exists is up for debate. The problem with 'love' is the bagage that comes with it in context.

Let's take peace for example. Peace is simply not killing each other. However, when talking about peace it comes with the contextual baggage of love ins, nature, hugs and all that crap.

Now we've got that out of the way, now we will talk love in the context of the thread.

I really don't get why the "boy meets girl, they like each other, they get married, they spend their life together, get through a lot of crap without killing themselfs and die after having a fairly normal life" can't fit in your book,

Perfect. That's exactly what goes in my book. When it comes to love. That there is the book without getting bogged down in political correct details.

I keep stepping on what you would consider "Disney" crap while trying to pull what the majority of the world would consider "normal" without walking on biased opinions

Ding! You win the grand prize for nailing the problem!

See, the disney crap I keep refering to IS the "normal" standard, but that standard is an unrealistic one. When that standard isn't met, stories change, small things first, until you end up in a pile of lies. There's a Dara oBrian joke that symbolises it perfectly

"When lovers tell you how they first met, it's always 'our eye met, and it was love at first sight' and never 'we were trashed, and I had just been dumped by someone I truely loved, I got her pregnant and it all went down hill from there' which is a bit closer to the true events"

My issue is NOT with people being in love, it's the idealic lies that make it sound as if life will be perfect. Alot, if not most people live and die alone, and I'm sure love just comes to some, but for most of us it will not happen. As I said, me and most likely others here, are not in an enviroment where women and love are common.

Once in a relationship, people fight, people have their own lives, people cheat, that's not to say it will happen, but it's very likely. By painting peoples hopes with a brush of dreams that will never happen is all well enough for you. You were lucky, but don't EVER think it was more then that. You don't know what it's like for us. We try and try and try and constantly fail. Inaction doesn't work. Being nice, being tough, being sympathetic, being yourself DOES NOT WORK.

[Guest DRL]

Being nice, [...],being sympathetic, being yourself DOES NOT WORK.

Wrong, it does. That is how my father and my

mother got married. Were not for that, I would

not be here now.

[Guest Scorpion03]

Wrong, it does. That is how my father and my

mother got married. Were not for that, I would

not be here now.

It is kinda rare, though, like sabre says, lots of crap about falling in love and how great it is, kinda sucks when reality hits home and it doesnt happen like that at all

[Redeemer]

I just want to say, my boyfriend has shared everything with me. He is just himself around me, and I've seen him at his worst and his best. And he's seen the same with me. But we still love each other. Being yourself does work, you just need to find the right person to appreciate it.

Sure, things between Paul and I aren't always perfect, but we never go to bed on bad terms. We always make up and talk before we go to sleep if we've had a fight. Right now we're struggling financially and it's difficult to not be irritable in this condition, but we give each other strength. He just said to me today, it could be worse, we could be apart. But we're not, and that's what's making my situation bearable right now.

I believe in love, forget the Disney look. Love is what you make it to be.

[Steve]

My issue is NOT with people being in love, it's the idealic lies that make it sound as if life will be perfect. Alot, if not most people live and die alone, and I'm sure love just comes to some, but for most of us it will not happen. As I said, me and most likely others here, are not in an enviroment where women and love are common.

Once in a relationship, people fight, people have their own lives, people cheat, that's not to say it will happen, but it's very likely. By painting peoples hopes with a brush of dreams that will never happen is all well enough for you. You were lucky, but don't EVER think it was more then that. You don't know what it's like for us. We try and try and try and constantly fail. Inaction doesn't work. Being nice, being tough, being sympathetic, being yourself DOES NOT WORK.

I'm glad to see we are both on a certain, even ground of understanding.

However, luck is not the main factor and most people will agree with me, sure it helps, but it's not everything. Painting people's hopes with a brush? you are basically doing the same just backwards, saying that nothing works is truly false. You really need to get to know a person before thinking about the next step, in order to skip some nasty situations and uncomfortable moments . If it just doesn't work, people usually move on.

Just going up and saying it's just a matter of luck doesn't really fit here, seriously, you don't know what people have to get through to be in relationships sometimes, you don't know my story, I don't know yours, I'd rather go into general interests. Some people REALLY work for this, on both sides.

[Thu'um]

there is no deftion off love

[Redeemer]

Once in a relationship, people fight, people have their own lives, people cheat, that's not to say it will happen, but it's very likely. By painting peoples hopes with a brush of dreams that will never happen is all well enough for you. You were lucky, but don't EVER think it was more then that. You don't know what it's like for us. We try and try and try and constantly fail. Inaction doesn't work. Being nice, being tough, being sympathetic, being yourself DOES NOT WORK.

Hmm, I seem to have missed this. And I disagree. Luck may play a part in it, but I believe there is someone out there for everyone. Don't play that "you don't know what it's like" card. How can you ask us not to imagine what it's like yet tell us we were just lucky? I'm sorry but I think that's downright nonsense. You're sounding more and more bitter with your arguments Sabre, all your trying and trying - yes it's unfair you've been knocked back again and again but that doesn't mean it's never going to change.

And how dare you tell us, tell me, that we were just lucky. I've been through my share of bad boyfriends, one of which threw me down some stairs because I told him to stop messing around in the silent section of the library. Yeah, I fell for his "pretending to be someone else" and look what happened.

But I still believe that being yourself gets you what you deserve. Maybe the ladies you've tried for weren't meant for you. You don't know what they were really like, your not meaning to be may well have been a blessing in disguise. Finding someone who loves you for you is very, very hard to find. And most people don't find it until much later, simply because they're disheartened by rejection.

I have earned my current situation, and yeah I'm fully aware it may change, but you know what? What happens, happens. I'm happy where I am right now, Paul and I live together, and you know what? We have loads of cheesy moments and competitions over who loves each other more. You know why? Because we're making fun of the idea of love, but embracing it at the same time.

I'm prepared to accept the possibility of a break up, but you know what I'll do? I'll mope, get over it and try again. As the old saying goes, there are plenty fish in the sea, all you have to do is catch one. I'll be devastated when/if Paul and I break up, but at the same time, it's an experience I'll never regret.

["User"]

there is no deftion off love

Completely wrong.

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

And to Sabre, not to sound rude or anything but you're pretty pessimistic with your explanations on love in general...didn't you say at one point that, being autistic, you have trouble understanding love?  Yet you are trying to make yourself out to be an expert on the subject here without having experienced in depth romantic love?  If I'm wrong in my analysis then please point it out to me.

I agree with pretty much everything Steve and Redeemer have said.

[Thu'um]

love too you is different then me as we see different qualities as beauty

[rainfyre66]

Sorry to drift back a bit, but for the record, I was just teasing Sabre about the beards! (hence the  ) (You gotta take a lot of what I say with a grain of salt...)

My thoughts on love and relationships have become far too complicated over the years, I wouldn't even know where to begin. The best advice I guess I could give anyone, romantic or cynic, is just to go with the flow.

["User"]

love too you is different then me as we see different qualities as beauty

That may be so, but I was simply correcting you because there IS a definition of love and to say otherwise is foolhardy.  :wink:

[Sabre]

Second, thinking that you will never get a girlfriend will only make things worse. Looking for one like crazy is another bad idea. Sometimes you just need to be patient or a little bit more friendly with people around you.

Just going up and saying it's just a matter of luck doesn't really fit here, seriously, you don't know what people have to get through to be in relationships sometimes, you don't know my story, I don't know yours, I'd rather go into general interests. Some people REALLY work for this, on both sides.

No comment.

And to Sabre, not to sound rude or anything but you're pretty pessimistic with your explanations on love in general...didn't you say at one point that, being autistic, you have trouble understanding love?  Yet you are trying to make yourself out to be an expert on the subject here without having experienced in depth romantic love?  If I'm wrong in my analysis then please point it out to me.

I agree with pretty much everything Steve and Redeemer have said.

No. If I did, then I wasn't clear. I can't get a girlfriend because I lack body language. Since dating is all social cues, it's not going to happen unless I meet another autistic or someone who doesn't mind logic over cues.

[Dermot]

No comment.

Careful.  Last time I said "No comment" to someone, it was taken the wrong way.

No. If I did, then I wasn't clear. I can't get a girlfriend because I lack body language. Since dating is all social cues, it's not going to happen unless I meet another autistic or someone who doesn't mind logic over cues.

A few years ago my mom went so far as to ask my autism therapist if autistic people tend not to like other autistic people.  People who are both intelligent and highly egocentric can tend to clash often.  Kinda like two housecats that don't know each other.

[Sabre]

Careful.  Last time I said "No comment" to someone, it was taken the wrong way.

That was because people assumed you were using it in the context I'm currently using it. A smug "I don't need to say anything because you have just proved my point" type of way. In this case a hyporcritical idealism.

A few years ago my mom went so far as to ask my autism therapist if autistic people tend not to like other autistic people.  People who are both intelligent and highly egocentric can tend to clash often.  Kinda like two housecats that don't know each other.

I've known other autistics. They don't always clash. Autistics tend to clash over crap. Take us for example. We get on fine now right?

[Dermot]

Umm...yeah, thus far.  I don't like clashes to begin with.