Gamers in a hell they wanted?

[Sabre]

E3 has truley finished, and the last of the articles are trickling out with only magazines to go. However, most hardcore gamers (myself included) are worried about all the wii-like waggle stuff.

Paul Barnett had something interesting to say on the topic. He says if you asked a gamer 10 years ago if you wanted everyone from your naighbours, grand kids to grand parents to be gamers, and for gamers to be on every electoric device you carry most would say yes. Now we have it we are upset at the lost of identity that defined us.

He used the example of gamers being like indie rock fans trying to get everyone to listen to music, but when they become mainstream we complain that they sold out and should always be an indie band just for us.

It's definatly an interesting point to discuss, and I think it plays some part. But for me, it's more a case of chef making the worlds tastiest burgers, who then makes horrid salads for the vegan crowd, the problem I have is that he doesn't make burgers any more because the vegans have more money. I just want my tasty burgers.

What's you thoughts?

[Vy'drach]

As long as good games are made, I'm happy. I don't want complete rehashes of other games to be made as the new "innovative" game, especially when they require no skill and are rather bad, but considered to be "great," thus setting the standard for games to come.

[Scott7]

E3 has truley finished, and the last of the articles are trickling out with only magazines to go. However, most hardcore gamers (myself included) are worried about all the wii-like waggle stuff.

Paul Barnett had something interesting to say on the topic. He says if you asked a gamer 10 years ago if you wanted everyone from your naighbours, grand kids to grand parents to be gamers, and for gamers to be on every electoric device you carry most would say yes. Now we have it we are upset at the lost of identity that defined us.

He used the example of gamers being like indie rock fans trying to get everyone to listen to music, but when they become mainstream we complain that they sold out and should always be an indie band just for us.

It's definatly an interesting point to discuss, and I think it plays some part. But for me, it's more a case of chef making the worlds tastiest burgers, who then makes horrid salads for the vegan crowd, the problem I have is that he doesn't make burgers any more because the vegans have more money. I just want my tasty burgers.

What's you thoughts?

quite true, otherwise we'd probably have some better games by now...

[DZComposer]

I'm sick of this gamer stigma and "holier-than-thou" attitude surrounding the so-called hardcore gamers.

I enjoy a good FPS as much as the average "hardcore gamer," but there are other types of games out there. I enjoyed New Super Mario Bros, for instance. And when you've got a group of friends around, Wii Sports Resort can actually be quite enjoyable as well.

"Hardcore Gamers" are closed minded, and are becoming increasingly harder to please. It is no surprise that the industry is moving on from this whiny bunch of damn crybabies when there are now new market segments that are more open to different types of games.

In my opinion a true gamer can enjoy anything, from Mii games to FPSes.

[Kursed]

I'm sick of this gamer stigma and "holier-than-thou" attitude surrounding the so-called hardcore gamers.

I enjoy a good FPS as much as the average "hardcore gamer," but there are other types of games out there. I enjoyed New Super Mario Bros, for instance. And when you've got a group of friends around, Wii Sports Resort can actually be quite enjoyable as well.

"Hardcore Gamers" are closed minded, and are becoming increasingly harder to please. It is no surprise that the industry is moving on from this whiny bunch of damn crybabies when there are now new market segments that are more open to different types of games.

In my opinion a true gamer can enjoy anything, from Mii games to FPSes.

I think the good Fps hard core games are slowly dissapearing good thing i've taken up other genre's like Racing and RTS Starcraft2 looks to be a good game still following the classic Rts style set by (age of empries being the oldest game in that genre i know of) some of the wii games I agree are enjoyable ,but I just like the hardcore games better somtimes. (Makes me thankfull i have a 460 and a wii)

[Sabre]

I'm sick of this gamer stigma and "holier-than-thou" attitude surrounding the so-called hardcore gamers.

I enjoy a good FPS as much as the average "hardcore gamer," but there are other types of games out there. I enjoyed New Super Mario Bros, for instance. And when you've got a group of friends around, Wii Sports Resort can actually be quite enjoyable as well.

"Hardcore Gamers" are closed minded, and are becoming increasingly harder to please. It is no surprise that the industry is moving on from this whiny bunch of damn crybabies when there are now new market segments that are more open to different types of games.

In my opinion a true gamer can enjoy anything, from Mii games to FPSes.

While there are certainly so called hardcores that are whiny teenagers that only care about graphics and what's popular at the moment. I think hardcore gamers in the sense I mean like games that are deeper, with challenging thoughtful gameplay. I don't like wii sports, rockband and the like because there's nothing to them. You simply flail/press coloured button when it hits the bottom of the screen. As such I don't find them even the slightest bit entertaining. To say that a true gamer likes everything is a bit no true scotsman.

[Guest DRL]

'Hardcore gamers' are dumb to me.

You are only limited to what you play,

hence why a so-called hardcore gamer

is so limited... He/she/it allways plays

the same stuff, or similar stuff to it.

'Hardcore gamer' is something you should

avoid becoming, because it means you only

enjoy a tiny fraction of the games out there.

Take me, for example. I am not exactly the most

'up-to-date-gamer' (I have yet to get TF2 )

but that does not means I do not enjoy both new and

old things.

[Star Fox Runner]

In my opinion, every group is going to have it's 'whiny' bunch that you can't please no matter how hard you try. Just ignore em and keep on moving, I like games of all types, but I tend to stay mostly with shooters and platformers. It's just my preference, doesn't mean I don't consider other games to be 'true games', just games I don't really have an interest in.

[Guest DRL]

In my opinion, every group is going to have it's 'whiny' bunch that you can't please no matter how hard you try. Just ignore em and keep on moving, I like games of all types, but I tend to stay mostly with shooters and platformers. It's just my preference, doesn't mean I don't consider other games to be 'true games', just games I don't really have an interest in.

Agreed completely, exept I am

more into RTS. :lol:

[Scott7]

I'm pretty much go for everything that is said to be good, or series that i have always liked So I'm technically in all categories.

Btw, since when did Hardcore get the impression of being Fps games only? I thought it meant diffcult challenges and sh!t like that...

[Robert Monroe]

I wouldn't mind more mainstream and casual gamers...

... if the games aimed at them were more than just shitty throw-away party games on the Wii.

Increasing the demographic = good

Releasing subpar games to appease them = bad

[Guest Julius Quasar]

I'm sick of this gamer stigma and "holier-than-thou" attitude surrounding the so-called hardcore gamers.

I enjoy a good FPS as much as the average "hardcore gamer," but there are other types of games out there. I enjoyed New Super Mario Bros, for instance. And when you've got a group of friends around, Wii Sports Resort can actually be quite enjoyable as well.

"Hardcore Gamers" are closed minded, and are becoming increasingly harder to please. It is no surprise that the industry is moving on from this whiny bunch of damn crybabies when there are now new market segments that are more open to different types of games.

In my opinion a true gamer can enjoy anything, from Mii games to FPSes.

tell me about it...

In my opinion, every group is going to have it's 'whiny' bunch that you can't please no matter how hard you try. Just ignore em and keep on moving, I like games of all types, but I tend to stay mostly with shooters and platformers. It's just my preference, doesn't mean I don't consider other games to be 'true games', just games I don't really have an interest in.

right on...they just piss and moan for the sake of pissing and moaning.

[Sabre]

I wouldn't mind more mainstream and casual gamers...

... if the games aimed at them were more than just shitty throw-away party games on the Wii.

Increasing the demographic = good

Releasing subpar games to appease them = bad

My point exactly.

[Guest Julius Quasar]

I simply don't like games that are baby-ish.

[DZComposer]

While there are certainly so called hardcores that are whiny teenagers that only care about graphics and what's popular at the moment. I think hardcore gamers in the sense I mean like games that are deeper, with challenging thoughtful gameplay. I don't like wii sports, rockband and the like because there's nothing to them. You simply flail/press coloured button when it hits the bottom of the screen. As such I don't find them even the slightest bit entertaining.

Actually Wii Sports Resort is a little more than that. Some of the things are actually a bit challenging. It isn't a game I would want to play for 3 hrs straight, but then it is not meant to be.

To say that a true gamer likes everything is a bit no true scotsman.

I didn't mean a true gamer likes every single thing. There are bad games out there. But to point at a game and declare it crap based on it's graphical style of genre is missing the point. Try it before you say it is crap.

And plus, taste is not a judge of crap either.

I dislike "hardcore" RPGs, for instance. I played through Dragon Quest 4 about a year ago, and it took extra will to finish it because of the grinding you have to do to get ready for a boss battle. When you have to get 50000XP and each battle only give you 50XP, but if you go into the boss with less that 50000XP you get PWND, that feels like work to me.

But do I call it crap? No. In fact, those games are good games in their own right. They just aren't to my taste. I also didn't dismiss it without playing it either.

[DarthDelgado]

^ This is good stuff.

[Sapphire]

I was very dissappointed with E3, besides the face that SF643DS was announced, but I'm not satisified with how it happened. Here I go all year getting pumped for E3 2010 and NO new Star Fox was announced (Besides SF643D).

[DarthDelgado]

I was very dissappointed with E3, besides the face that SF643DS was announced, but I'm not satisified with how it happened. Here I go all year getting pumped for E3 2010 and NO new Star Fox was announced (Besides SF643D).

You can't go to E3 expecting a specific new game. You go to see all the stuff that's being released. You were dissapointed also at E3 09? E3 08 perhaps?

[Steve]

Oh man, not again. Sheesh, aside my laptop, I own a wii, does that instantly make me a casual? Because last time I checked, the only "waggle" game I own is wii sports, and I guess I had no choice on the matter for that.

It's really fun to go to stores like best buy and see the shelf that has the massive amount of waggle/stupid games, for under 20 dollars. Day after day, they just keep gathering dusk. And seriously, you don't need to be a super gamer to know the difference between real games and shoveware. While I'm neutral with Microsoft and  have never liked sony for having the "us first, then our costumers" kind of vision, I would hate to see more of this shoveware popping up. Some titles like Wii fit have their own meaning, I wouldn't consider them to be waggle or casual, they  just have another kind of purpose. Stuff like wii sports and resort are more for 4 player fun, which is nice, and it really is fun, like DZ pointed, it's a game meant to play for a little while.Crappy games will always exist, even without kinetic and move , the ps3 and 360 have their own little island of shoveware games (I'm looking at you, Hanna Montana), it's just a matter of ignoring them and moving forward.

  You can go around the internet and not even half of the population of 360 and ps3 players wanted motion involved. Microsoft and Sony just looked at Nintendo and went "I want some easy money too". Microsoft decided to take a different path, however, Sony is just basically making a new wii remote and claiming it to be innovative, that's what I would call BS. While I won't discuss which one is better (wii motion plus vs move) because I do believe the sony wand works relatively better (if I'm wrong, I will gladly accept the correction  ) the final battle will come up with games, not technology. I'm not exactly sure how this is going to work for Sony, because for what I have heard, most of the gamers that only own a ps3 are self-proclaimed "anti-waggle". 

[Vy'drach]

Pretty much what Steve said, except swap Sony and Microsoft, since I haven't seen that "us first" philosophy in Sony, I see it more in Microsoft. Since, while the Wii and PS3 have built in wireless, Microsoft requires you to buy a $100 accessory, PSN and Nintendo internet is free, while Xbox Live requires a subscription for all but the most basic of services, and Xbox will cause game companies to not finish their games, since if the game isn't ready by a deadline, they drop the deal, causing rushed games.

[Sabre]

Oh man, not again. Sheesh, aside my laptop, I own a wii, does that instantly make me a casual? Because last time I checked, the only "waggle" game I own is wii sports, and I guess I had no choice on the matter for that.

It's really fun to go to stores like best buy and see the shelf that has the massive amount of waggle/stupid games, for under 20 dollars. Day after day, they just keep gathering dusk. And seriously, you don't need to be a super gamer to know the difference between real games and shoveware. While I'm neutral with Microsoft and  have never liked sony for having the "us first, then our costumers" kind of vision, I would hate to see more of this shoveware popping up. Some titles like Wii fit have their own meaning, I wouldn't consider them to be waggle or casual, they  just have another kind of purpose. Stuff like wii sports and resort are more for 4 player fun, which is nice, and it really is fun, like DZ pointed, it's a game meant to play for a little while.Crappy games will always exist, even without kinetic and move , the ps3 and 360 have their own little island of shoveware games (I'm looking at you, Hanna Montana), it's just a matter of ignoring them and moving forward.

  You can go around the internet and not even half of the population of 360 and ps3 players wanted motion involved. Microsoft and Sony just looked at Nintendo and went "I want some easy money too". Microsoft decided to take a different path, however, Sony is just basically making a new wii remote and claiming it to be innovative, that's what I would call BS. While I won't discuss which one is better (wii motion plus vs move) because I do believe the sony wand works relatively better (if I'm wrong, I will gladly accept the correction  ) the final battle will come up with games, not technology. I'm not exactly sure how this is going to work for Sony, because for what I have heard, most of the gamers that only own a ps3 are self-proclaimed "anti-waggle".

There will always be crap. True. However, crap that tries is better then crap that doesn't. using the old example, it's better to make a horrid burger then make nothing but horrid salads all the time. The wii has very few good games, and those aren't any where near what the DS, 360 and PC put out. By the looks of things, the PS3 and Kinetic are doing the exact same crap.

[Kursed]

Pretty much what Steve said, except swap Sony and Microsoft, since I haven't seen that "us first" philosophy in Sony, I see it more in Microsoft. Since, while the Wii and PS3 have built in wireless, Microsoft requires you to buy a $100 accessory, PSN and Nintendo internet is free, while Xbox Live requires a subscription for all but the most basic of services, and Xbox will cause game companies to not finish their games, since if the game isn't ready by a deadline, they drop the deal, causing rushed games.

halo3 anyone?)

[DarthDelgado]

halo3 anyone?)

HAHAHA! Oh that's funny.

[Kursed]

HAHAHA! Oh that's funny.

halo3 mutiplayer was execclent but the campaign.... well the playing was good but the end cut scene rush WHERE THE FRICK IS THE CHEIF?!

[Vy'drach]

halo3 mutiplayer was execclent but the campaign.... well the playing was good but the end cut scene rush WHERE THE FRICK IS THE CHEIF?!

You have to beat it on Legendary for that answer.