Do you believe Fox has legit reasons to be in love with Krystal?

[Asper Sarnoff]

the only moron in the starfox series are the Darn writers WHO NEVEr get Krystal right or give her a definate personality for that matter.

Well, can't really blame the writers for not making her as you think she should be like.

Amen, good sir. You've got it. Every romance encounters a few bumps in the road every now and then. It all smooths out with time.

All the millions of people who've experienced a divorce would be willing to disagree with you there.

[SlyJedi]

All the millions of people who've experienced a divorce would be willing to disagree with you there.

All right Asper, let me clarify what I said. What I meant was every romantic relation experiences certain issues. Nothing is without flaw. What I meant to say was it can or could improve over a certain time period. Yes, it is not the case for everyone and some relations just fail (A.K.A. don't work out), I understand that entirely.

In relation to the topic at hand, I was also just agreeing with Mr. Fox13's statement. Romantic relations that are still going through development ( and  in this case), will experience issues (awkward moments, and the like), but the two can work on that.

I hope that helps to clarify it.

B.T.W. I've fixed my previous post to be clearer on the matter.

[Samantha Weltzin]

Amen, good sir. You've got it. Every developing romance encounters a few bumps in the road every now and then. It can smooth out with time.

You make excuses for Fox and yet you won't give Panther a chance? What's with the double-standard? :P

[Mr. Fox13]

You make excuses for Fox and yet you won't give Panther a chance? What's with the double-standard?

Fox can have all the excuses he wants. Panther doesn't get any though. The only thing he gets is a hard time. :trollface:

[Samantha Weltzin]

Fox can have all the excuses he wants. Panther doesn't get any though. The only thing he gets is a hard time.

Seems that way!

[Robert Monroe]

Actually, yeah, Fox is a moron about romance. He stares blankly at Krystal in Adventures like he's never seen a girl before, can't seperate his mind from his dick when she "thanks" him on the Great Fox, and throughout all of Assault stumbles, fumbles, and trips over every flirtatious advance Krystal puts on him. In Command, his inability to understand how a relationship works comes to an obvious peak when he dumps Krystal (off camera) from their (also off camera) short lived get together, and this continues to persist in several of Command's endings. Now, of course, there's also 2 or so Command endings that end in Fox's favor, but when stacked against everything else he's done wrong, it doesn't amount to much.

[Fluxy]

Actually, yeah, Fox is a moron about romance. He stares blankly at Krystal in Adventures like he's never seen a girl before, can't seperate his mind from his dick when she "thanks" him on the Great Fox, and throughout all of Assault stumbles, fumbles, and trips over every flirtatious advance Krystal puts on him. In Command, his inability to understand how a relationship works comes to an obvious peak when he dumps Krystal (off camera) from their (also off camera) short lived get together, and this continues to persist in several of Command's endings. Now, of course, there's also 2 or so Command endings that end in Fox's favor, but when stacked against everything else he's done wrong, it doesn't amount to much.

In the sense he can't say the right thing at the right time, mostly, I agree. But, Fox has grown on it, as we have seen. In adventures, yes, his attraction to Krystal is more lustful. As we then approach Assault, We see his romance mature. Whenever he was within touching distance with Krystal in adventures, he was blushing and trying not to get hard. And in the sauria scene in assault, he only got embarrassed for a tiny bit because Tricky was immature and he accidentally blurted something. And even though he did put Krystal aside in Command, he did it because he wanted her to be safe, and made a mistake, everyone has a mistake, at least one, in a relationship, but he showed that he was pretty damn mature about the romance between them.

And, I do believe that by assault that he had reason to be in love with Krystal. There was a good year or more between Adventures and Assault. Lots of building could have been done by that time. :)

[Samantha Weltzin]

In the sense he can't say the right thing at the right time, mostly, I agree. But, Fox has grown on it, as we have seen. In adventures, yes, his attraction to Krystal is more lustful. As we then approach Assault, We see his romance mature. Whenever he was within touching distance with Krystal in adventures, he was blushing and trying not to get hard. And in the sauria scene in assault, he only got embarrassed for a tiny bit because Tricky was immature and he accidentally blurted something. And even though he did put Krystal aside in Command, he did it because he wanted her to be safe, and made a mistake, everyone has a mistake, at least one, in a relationship, but he showed that he was pretty damn mature about the romance between them.

And, I do believe that by assault that he had reason to be in love with Krystal. There was a good year or more between Adventures and Assault. Lots of building could have been done by that time.

You speak as if kicking her off the team was a small mistake. To turn this common wisdom of "They've been together for years" on its head, I pose this to you: If Fox hadn't learned that such a thing would devastate Krystal, and didn't even ask her about it before he made the decision, during those years together, how well does he really know her? He clearly lacks empathy, which is key in a successful relationship. If you can't tell, after so much time together, what your potential "partner" feels or would feel, then you clearly aren't made for her.

So yeah. Kicking her off the team without her consent was an awful, terrible mistake, and more could come.

[Fluxy]

Well, you also have to realize, he THOUGHT it was the best decision. He was wrong. A simple mistake, that caused something bad. And, not every person is in perfect empathy attunment with the person they love. If they were 100% attuned, that would have high chances for failure in it's self. So, I do believe he has empathy, just not everyone has/goes by their empathy all the time for certain reasons.

[Robert Monroe]

Well, you also have to realize, he THOUGHT it was the best decision. He was wrong. A simple mistake, that caused something bad. And, not every person is in perfect empathy attunment with the person they love. If they were 100% attuned, that would have high chances for failure in it's self. So, I do believe he has empathy, just not everyone has/goes by their empathy all the time for certain reasons.

It was more than a simple mistake.

It was telling Krystal that all their time together, friendship, and short lived romance, was all for squat. If Fox truly loved Krystal, he wouldn't have made such a selfish move on his part.

[Fluxy]

Okay, Simple, not the best word. I get it. But still, the point still applies. And again, Really, all of these are opinions. Nothing truly is set in stone, especially when dealing with Command.

[Samantha Weltzin]

Well, you also have to realize, he THOUGHT it was the best decision. He was wrong. A simple mistake, that caused something bad. And, not every person is in perfect empathy attunment with the person they love. If they were 100% attuned, that would have high chances for failure in it's self. So, I do believe he has empathy, just not everyone has/goes by their empathy all the time for certain reasons.

A decision like that is a big deal. You don't just do it without asking the person first. Otherwise you come off as Fox did: A heartless S.O.B., regardless of the intent.

Think of it this way:

"I am your leader. As your leader, I...I order you off the ship....For your own safety...I..."

See that? Heartfelt, and clearly he's struggling. It's giving him the benefit of the doubt, of course, as he may have put on a "tough guy" mask and just told her to leave without explanation, but either way he comes off as a real jerk.

I'm not saying he -meant- to, but he should have known that if you make a massive decision like this without consulting the person it affects, they're going to hold you in at least a little contempt.

[Fluxy]

A decision like that is a big deal. You don't just do it without asking the person first. Otherwise you come off as Fox did: A heartless S.O.B., regardless of the intent.

Think of it this way:

"I am your leader. As your leader, I...I order you off the ship....For your own safety...I..."

See that? Heartfelt, and clearly he's struggling. It's giving him the benefit of the doubt, of course, as he may have put on a "tough guy" mask and just told her to leave without explanation, but either way he comes off as a real jerk.

I'm not saying he -meant- to, but he should have known that if you make a massive decision like this without consulting the person it affects, they're going to hold you in at least a little contempt.

Of course. I get that, and expected that he would put up the guard, and try to act tough. I am just stating how I view it, cause I see tons of people (Not only on this site, but on other places) That they do only view Fox as a jerk because of that situation. I do see that, it is heartfelt, I would have to be friggin five to not see that. I am just stating my views because I hate how people just right out call him a jerk, when really, he didn't mean for it to have that affect. Sure, the decision was partially selfish, but he in all ways was still was trying to protect Krystal, just at that time he didn't now the exact right thing to do. Not everyone, including the great Fox McCloud, knows what to do in every situation. Sorry for causing anyone to try and get this into an argument, rather than a discussion.

[Samantha Weltzin]

I don't see this as an argument. I'm not sure why that always seems to come up on this site. Two conflicting opinions does not equal an argument unless people get angry about it. What we're doing here -is- a discussion, with points and counterpoints. I mean, unless you're getting upset (If you are, I'm sorry, as I don't mean for that to happen), there's nothing argumentative about this. What's funny, though, is that the topic actually spawned off an argument, so even if what we were doing was arguing, it'd be perfectly fitting.

At any rate, I'm not sure why you're really defending Fox. So far as I've seen, more people are -for- his relationship with Krystal than anything. Or at the very least, they're the most vocal.

But yeah. The whole point of pointing out Fox's Command faux-pas was to show how incompetent he is at this "male-female relationship" thing. He just doesn't get it. Some might find that cute or endearing; I find it frustrating and, since the fate of the galaxy often rides on his shoulders, somewhat frightening.

[Fluxy]

Okay, I was just putting it out there because on other sites people liked to start arguments from what I said, so I was just putting that barrier out there. My bad for giving the wrong impression Samantha. But to be honest, I haven't read much of this, so I miss presumed it to be like other sites I have been to in the past. Even on others, they say they are for  +  But they really think Fox is a jerk on the inside (well, most that I saw). It was mainly my bad and a misunderstanding. I just need to read the previous posts more often. 

But I do agree. I do find it kinda cute how he isn't as "Cool" as others when it comes to relationship, it shows that even a great leader can have women issues (I has no idea why I find that cute.) But I do as well find it rather frustrating as well. Let me Clarify. In Adventures and Assault, I found it adorable and cute. In Command, I find that they did take it a bit far than really should have gone.

[Samantha Weltzin]

Fox -is- a mercenary, so there might be something to the "jerk inside" idea.

That said, he's also a very typical "hero" type, and if that archetype is any indicator, that means that Fox is rough on the outside with a soft spot in the middle. The only variation here is that he's bad with the women from the get-go. But malicious? Not likely.

[Fluxy]

But malicious? Not likely.

Definitely. I blame Nintendo for not telling us a brief summary at the least of how people developed over the parts of time. I mean, the only thing like that is the "Farewell, Beloved Falco" comic for the transition of Starfox 64-Adventures. It doesn't need to be a comic per-say, but some sort of way to give us some info would be nice, and help round out the characters a little, even though I have big doubts that will happen.

[SlyJedi]

You make excuses for Fox and yet you won't give Panther a chance? What's with the double-standard?

It is because I absolutely love  ! It is my absolute favorite VG pairing of all time. That, and I also enjoy pairing Panther with Miyu. That way, everything is fine and fair to me. It is just how StarFox is to me whenever I play the games.

It seems that we will never agree on this matter, so I feel it will be best for us to just agree to disagree here, Samantha.

[Samantha Weltzin]

It is because I absolutely love  ! It is my absolute favorite VG pairing of all time. That, and I also enjoy pairing Panther with Miyu. That way, everything is fine and fair to me. It is just how StarFox is to me whenever I play the games.

It seems that we will never agree on this matter, so I feel it will be best for us to just agree to disagree here, Samantha.

Well at least you admit it's a double-standard. I don't begrudge you your preferences, so long as you don't state them as "law."

And..."Agree to disagree" is such a cop-out phrase. When it comes to opinions? Yeah, it can work even though opinions can be changed. But (I'm not accusing you of this in this case, mind you) when it comes to arguing logic and facts, it just sounds to me like, "You've beaten me, but I refuse to budge from my position nonetheless." For that reason, even when it's used right, it gets my blood boiling just a bit.

[SlyJedi]

Well at least you admit it's a double-standard. I don't begrudge you your preferences, so long as you don't state them as "law."

And..."Agree to disagree" is such a cop-out phrase. When it comes to opinions? Yeah, it can work even though opinions can be changed. But (I'm not accusing you of this in this case, mind you) when it comes to arguing logic and facts, it just sounds to me like, "You've beaten me, but I refuse to budge from my position nonetheless." For that reason, even when it's used right, it gets my blood boiling just a bit.

I did not say it is a double standard. It is not one (in my view). I just absolutely love  and I have already offered my take on why they should be together earlier in this thread. Also, I really like PantherXMiyu. I just really enjoy these pairings. That's all. I do not expect anything I say to become "law" at all. As I said it is my take on the StarFox universe.

When I say agree to disagree, I am referring to opinions and points of view, which just differ. Like yours and mine. This thread is all about opinion. It's all good.

[Robert Monroe]

It is because I absolutely love  ! It is my absolute favorite VG pairing of all time. That, and I also enjoy pairing Panther with Miyu. That way, everything is fine and fair to me. It is just how StarFox is to me whenever I play the games.

It seems that we will never agree on this matter, so I feel it will be best for us to just agree to disagree here, Samantha.

That does not excuse your double standard. You have to put aside your personal likes and dislikes and see the situation in a clear, nonbiased way. And from the objective point of view, giving Fox a thousand second chances but not giving Panther any on the basis of "I like this pairing more" is balmy.

This isn't about preferences, its about what makes sense.

[Guest DRL]

That does not excuse your double standard. You have to put aside your personal likes and dislikes and see the situation in a clear, nonbiased way. And from the objective point of view, giving Fox a thousand second chances but not giving Panther any on the basis of "I like this pairing more" is balmy.

This isn't about preferences, its about what makes sense.

Technically if we by Command, Panther

DOES have some kind 'of chance'.

Unless you count the fact that

she is using him...

I did not say it is a double standard. It is not one (in my view). I just absolutely love  . And I really like PantherXMiyu. I just really enjoy these pairings.

Me too, althrough I would accpet other

pairing that may happen in newer games.

(Panther + Fay, for example.)

[Fluxy]

That does not excuse your double standard. You have to put aside your personal likes and dislikes and see the situation in a clear, nonbiased way. And from the objective point of view, giving Fox a thousand second chances but not giving Panther any on the basis of "I like this pairing more" is balmy.

This isn't about preferences, its about what makes sense.

All of these are opinions. You don't need an excuse to have one. He doesn't have to do anything.

[Robert Monroe]

All of these are opinions. You don't need an excuse to have one. He doesn't have to do anything.

Let's break it down.

Topic: Does Fox have legitimate reasons to be in love with Krystal?

Person A: Yes I do *lists reasons as to support his claim*

Person B: *provides counterpoints against this claim*

Person A: I can give Fox second chances

Person B: Fox can get them but Panther can not? Why?

Person A: Because I like Fox+Krystal.

See, this is not an arguement. Yes, the entire topic is based on opinion, but that doesn't mean you can just go "lalalalala because I said so".

[Fluxy]

Let's break it down.

Topic: Does Fox have legitimate reasons to be in love with Krystal?

Person A: Yes I do *lists reasons as to support his claim*

Person B: *provides counterpoints against this claim*

Person A: I can give Fox second chances

Person B: Fox can get them but Panther can not? Why?

Person A: Because I like Fox+Krystal.

See, this is not an arguement. Yes, the entire topic is based on opinion, but that doesn't mean you can just go "lalalalala because I said so".

Understandable. My bad, Robert.