Religious Affiliation

[Guest DRL]

But perspective is extremely important! Perspective is the filter through which you see the world! If you can effect your perspective and make it more positive, than your world is more positive.

The only example i have of this is that last year, i was diagnosed with low-grade depression. That affected my perspective and made everything in my world look pointless and bleak. Now I have defeated it, and my perspective has become more positive, and hence, so has my world and my life.

But mine's is the opposite case, where

my logical mind has mercilessly crushed

any 'hope' or 'dream' I could ever think

about.

Urm, i thought when you converted, you converted, and that's what you are. I don't think most religions are passed down and held. I mean, i know Judaism is passed down, but i dont think its the same for all?

Actually to be a 'true' Judaism 'follower',

or like that, you have to have a Jew

mother. (I mean, your mother has to be Jew).

Otherwise, if only your father was, or you

became later, you are reffered to as 'converted',

which I am not sure how it does affect.

The worry your not doing things right is a real bother too, but i just figured that if it felt right, I must be on the right track. I seriously doubt if your praying or meditating, or doing a spell, if you do some little thing wrong, its not going to work just because of that slip-up. Your taught that intent is always the most important thing, so if your intent is pure, you have a good chance even if your 'technique' blows

Herein is what I pointed out before.

I NEED to see some sort of 'result'.

I get tired of doing some repeatedly,

only to find out it did not affect me at all,

or did not even caused some minimal

effect. Think about trying to light up a fire;

you know you are doing the right thing when

you AT LEAST see some sparks...

And yeah, I am talking about the famous

'meditation'.

[Fira-Astrali]

But mine's is the opposite case, where

my logical mind has mercilessly crushed

any 'hope' or 'dream' I could ever think

about.

Herein is what I pointed out before.

I NEED to see some sort of 'result'.

I get tired of doing some repeatedly,

only to find out it did not affect me at all,

or did not even caused some minimal

effect. Think about trying to light up a fire;

you know you are doing the right thing when

you AT LEAST see some sparks...

And yeah, I am talking about the famous

'meditation'.

so you're telling me that your mood and such has absolutely NO effect on how you process your world?

Hmn, I guess I see what you're saying. I know that I get very profound results from meditation, so the fact that you get very little is too bad.

[Guest Julius Quasar]

Christianity is hittin' some tough times, man...

[Robert Monroe]

Christianity is hittin' some tough times, man...

Elaborate.

Unless you mean the current Pope being really shitty, which he is. I don't care if John Paul II is a hard act to follow, Benedict is about as good a Pope as any random street shmuck. Only really thing I even somewhat like about him is he's an intellectual, but even that hurts him because he has so little spiritual experience as an actual minister.

[Guest Julius Quasar]

Elaborate.

Unless you mean the current Pope being really shitty, which he is. I don't care if John Paul II is a hard act to follow, Benedict is about as good a Pope as any random street shmuck. Only really thing I even somewhat like about him is he's an intellectual, but even that hurts him because he has so little spiritual experience as an actual minister.

Well, that's one of many.

There's also stuff like this:

Happened to a church I went too as a teenager, and I will never get over it. My first minister there was probably the best minister I ever had. He was just so full of LOVE, and probably the most earnest Christ follower I ever knew. He just made me want to damn hug EVERYONE.

And then one revival we had we got what seemed to be a good preacher. Too good, it seems, because my church officials asked David (the current minister) to step down and offer the position to the new guy, and said new guy only accepted the position if he was literally paid like 5000 dollars in advance or something. And he was.

Except he was a conman. He took the five grand and never came back, and I lost a good friend and a good preacher in the crossfire. Later on, the church fell apart, and I left it, and I don't even know whose running what now.

and this:

I had a bit of a falling out with my old church because after the reverend/pastor there retired, then he got replaced by a "Robot-Drone-O-Mat 5,000" reverend/pastor, who isn't very good.  Also, the trustees of the church got replaced by a bunch of snotty, asshole elitist bible thumping holy roller scum who treated the church like a country club.

Also, the persecution of Christians is on the rise (Damn [California] Liberals), and these atheists are always suing to remove the pledge of allegiance because of its "One Nation Under God" content, and suing to remove cross images from state parks, state/city emblems/seals....

It's considered okay to make fun of Christians in school, calling them "Jesus Freaks", but if you pick on a gay, you're suddenly declared "worse than Hitler".

[Robert Monroe]

The conman minister is nothing new. They've been around since the middle ages, when you remember the corruption of the Catholic church at the time.

The "political correcting" of things like the Pledge does annoy me, but moreso by its motivation. The founding fathers were deists, like many of the 18th and 19th century populace, and the terms "Under God" are more of a formality of the times than anything else. They're just symbols, they're only religious if you make it so, and changing them to avoid offending people is just silly.

As for schools, well, American schools (pubs anyway) suck hard to begin with, and need total revamping. But it is unfair that religious folk are fair game while gays and such aren't. They try to justify it with fallacies, namely "religion has done bad thing so its ok", which is ironic considering atheists are supposed to be logical and intellectual.

But really, these problems aren't paticularly recent or limtied to Christianity.

[Guest Julius Quasar]

The conman minister is nothing new. They've been around since the middle ages, when you remember the corruption of the Catholic church at the time.

The "political correcting" of things like the Pledge does annoy me, but moreso by its motivation. The founding fathers were deists, like many of the 18th and 19th century populace, and the terms "Under God" are more of a formality of the times than anything else. They're just symbols, they're only religious if you make it so, and changing them to avoid offending people is just silly.

As for schools, well, American schools (pubs anyway) suck hard to begin with, and need total revamping. But it is unfair that religious folk are fair game while gays and such aren't. They try to justify it with fallacies, namely "religion has done bad thing so its ok", which is ironic considering atheists are supposed to be logical and intellectual.

But really, these problems aren't paticularly recent or limtied to Christianity.

Oh yeah, huh? 

Those problems just seem to be greater in quantity, but then again, Christians have faced hard times before, the Crusades, The Roman Empire (Pre-Constantine)...heck, even the Dark Ages were a bad time for Christianity...

but regarding this:

The "political correcting" of things like the Pledge does annoy me, but moreso by its motivation. The founding fathers were deists, like many of the 18th and 19th century populace, and the terms "Under God" are more of a formality of the times than anything else. They're just symbols, they're only religious if you make it so, and changing them to avoid offending people is just silly.

^ I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this....

[Robert Monroe]

Oh yeah, huh? 

Those problems just seem to be greater in quantity, but then again, Christians have faced hard times before, the Crusades, The Roman Empire (Pre-Constantine)...heck, even the Dark Ages were a bad time for Christianity...

Remember, this is the information age. The further you go back in time, the less information there is to find on what happened. Its not so much a higher quantity of problems, they're just better covered. 10, 15 years ago, I would have never suspected so many problems surrounding religions, simply because things like the internet wasn't as reliable as it is now as a means of covering them.

[Guest Julius Quasar]

Remember, this is the information age. The further you go back in time, the less information there is to find on what happened. Its not so much a higher quantity of problems, they're just better covered. 10, 15 years ago, I would have never suspected so many problems surrounding religions, simply because things like the internet wasn't as reliable as it is now as a means of covering them.

Ah, now I see...thanks.

[Fira-Astrali]

Also, the persecution of Christians is on the rise (Damn [California] Liberals), and these atheists are always suing to remove the pledge of allegiance because of its "One Nation Under God" content, and suing to remove cross images from state parks, state/city emblems/seals....

This annoys me. It's great that people are trying to take other values into account, but if a picture of a cross on some building offends you, you need to chill out a little.

A similar thing is happening in Canada right now. They want to change the national anthem because it says "in all thy son's command" so its not a religious connotation by a sexist one. Now, I'm the first to accuse myself of being a crazy tree-hugging feminist hippie, but really? Really?

[Guest Julius Quasar]

This annoys me. It's great that people are trying to take other values into account, but if a picture of a cross on some building offends you, you need to chill out a little.

A similar thing is happening in Canada right now. They want to change the national anthem because it says "in all thy son's command" so its not a religious connotation by a sexist one. Now, I'm the first to accuse myself of being a crazy tree-hugging feminist hippie, but really? Really?

That's why I don't pay taxes (that, and I'm unemployed   )

["User"]

A similar thing is happening in Canada right now. They want to change the national anthem because it says "in all thy son's command" so its not a religious connotation by a sexist one. Now, I'm the first to accuse myself of being a crazy tree-hugging feminist hippie, but really? Really?

Old news.  The conservative government backed off that months ago when it caused a public outcry.  And they suggested tinkering with the anthem but they didn't say outright they were going to guarantee that particular change - it was but one "potential idea" along with a bunch of others.

[Fira-Astrali]

Old news.  The conservative government backed off that months ago when it caused a public outcry.  And they suggested tinkering with the anthem but they didn't say outright they were going to guarantee that particular change - it was but one "potential idea" along with a bunch of others.

well sorry for being so behind the times >.>

["User"]

well sorry for being so behind the times >.>

I apologize if I sounded a little rude there, I guess I'm just used to being on top of things as they happen.

I agree with your assessment of it though, it's really silly and it's our national anthem for crying out loud!  On a more religious note, I remember years ago when one NDP member put forth a bill that tried to take "God" out of our constitution - the guy got kicked out of his own leftist party for proposing such a thing.

[Kursed]

I apologize if I sounded a little rude there, I guess I'm just used to being on top of things as they happen.

I agree with your assessment of it though, it's really silly and it's our national anthem for crying out loud!  On a more religious note, I remember years ago when one NDP member put forth a bill that tried to take "God" out of our constitution - the guy got kicked out of his own leftist party for proposing such a thing.

wow seriously? and here in the Usa a teacher can get fired for teaching  that stuff.

[Fira-Astrali]

I apologize if I sounded a little rude there, I guess I'm just used to being on top of things as they happen.

I agree with your assessment of it though, it's really silly and it's our national anthem for crying out loud!  On a more religious note, I remember years ago when one NDP member put forth a bill that tried to take "God" out of our constitution - the guy got kicked out of his own leftist party for proposing such a thing.

It's alright, I shouldn't have snapped back.

where is that in our constitution? We looked into it in my law course but we spent way more time in the Charter.

wow seriously? and here in the Usa a teacher can get fired for teaching  that stuff.

Teaching what? Creationism?

[CrypticQuery]

Teaching what? Creationism?

Yes

[Robert Monroe]

The thing with creationism is people have it in their heads that its a science :|

["User"]

It's alright, I shouldn't have snapped back.

where is that in our constitution? We looked into it in my law course but we spent way more time in the Charter.

I honestly have no idea, it's been a while since I looked into it.  MIGHT be in the Charter but I remember specifically hearing about it in the Constitution.  :?

[Kursed]

It's alright, I shouldn't have snapped back.

where is that in our constitution? We looked into it in my law course but we spent way more time in the Charter.

Teaching what? Creationism?

yes 

[Guest DRL]

so you're telling me that your mood and such has absolutely NO effect on how you process your world?

To be honest, YES.

Hmn, I guess I see what you're saying. I know that I get very profound results from meditation, so the fact that you get very little is too bad.

Which results? I get none

at all. I beggan, in fact, to

question 'if it does nothing,

why people say it is great?'

I can not help but think/feel

like that.

Again, I apologize, but I can only

think/feel that it is all... Bummer.

O-T: Religion has no place regarding the State.

        They are two different things, completely.

        Religious teaching in public schools should

        not be allowed. Simbols and stuff in churches

        is okay, but not in public buildings (unless it's

        purpose is artistic, which rarely is the case).

[Fira-Astrali]

Which results? I get none

at all. I beggan, in fact, to

question 'if it does nothing,

why people say it is great?'

I can not help but think/feel

like that.

Well, its not fair of you to dismiss something just because it doesnt work for you.

Which results? The results that it aligns energy and helps banish negative energy. Like i said, i have anxiety, and its easier to control through meditation. You also get the added bonus of become more focussed, and therefore your witchcraft is better because you are more focussed on intent.

Again, I apologize, but I can only

think/feel that it is all... Bummer.

No need to apologize, this is a thorougly illuminating discussion. I think the issue is that you are quite the scientific fellow. Proof is nessessary to justify results? Something like meditiation and things like that, require a person to be open to the supernatural, and the flows of the spirit. So maybe it would require a leap of faith that you don't feel it deserves?

[Guest DRL]

Like i said, i have anxiety, and its easier to control through meditation.

It never worked that way for me,

but well. I guess not everybody

can keep itself quiet for long.

No need to apologize, this is a thorougly illuminating discussion. I think the issue is that you are quite the scientific fellow. Proof is nessessary to justify results? Something like meditiation and things like that, require a person to be open to the supernatural, and the flows of the spirit. So maybe it would require a leap of faith that you don't feel it deserves?

Okay. Again, one of my biggest

issues with such religion/cult was

that it required me to do stuff without

having no idea of how they should work.

I mean, if you are supposed to build something,

but you are only given vague indications, then

chances are you will end up building something else.

[Fira-Astrali]

It never worked that way for me,

but well. I guess not everybody

can keep itself quiet for long.

Oh, my mind doesnt stay quiet either. I find that candle medetitation works best, bc it gives your mind something to quietly focuss on.

Okay. Again, one of my biggest

issues with such religion/cult was

that it required me to do stuff without

having no idea of how they should work.

I mean, if you are supposed to build something,

but you are only given vague indications, then

chances are you will end up building something else.

Yea, but thats the beauty of it. It's all about your intentions. If you are suppose to build something for a purpose, but are given vauge instructions and therefore make something else, whats the problem as long as it does the same job, but to your specifications? Hell, it might be even better, because It does its job just as well as if you were given a precise set of instructions, and has the virtue of your own inspiration.

For example, I know for a fact that if any real coven witch came and saw the hack-job that i call wicca, they might just have a heart attack and die on the spot. But it works for me, and since its all about your intent, it still works. The only thing the metaphysical is concerned with is what your intent is, and how much energy you put into something. If your intent is pure, and you are putting all of your energy into something, you're doing it right. Maybe that seems like a cop-out, but to me it seems a hell of alot more natural than some precise set of instructions to follow.

[Guest DRL]

Oh, my mind doesnt stay quiet either. I find that candle medetitation works best, bc it gives your mind something to quietly focuss on.

Yea, but thats the beauty of it.

That is what I wanted all of the

time with a 'religion' - simple quiet

of mind.

Yea, but thats the beauty of it. It's all about your intentions. If you are suppose to build something for a purpose, but are given vauge instructions and therefore make something else, whats the problem as long as it does the same job, but to your specifications? Hell, it might be even better, because It does its job just as well as if you were given a precise set of instructions, and has the virtue of your own inspiration.

While your point is valid, mine is,

that if you end up building something

else, there are chances that it ends

doing up something else, too.

For example, I know for a fact that if any real coven witch came and saw the hack-job that i call wicca, they might just have a heart attack and die on the spot. But it works for me, and since its all about your intent, it still works. The only thing the metaphysical is concerned with is what your intent is, and how much energy you put into something. If your intent is pure, and you are putting all of your energy into something, you're doing it right. Maybe that seems like a cop-out, but to me it seems a hell of alot more natural than some precise set of instructions to follow.

My thing with a religion was allways

the same, as I stated before, to finally

feel a peace of mind. I consider that,

personally, to be of a 'neutral' 'alignment' -

if we can call it that - because I never intented

to use a religion or belief to harm others, just

to help myself.