Open thread on staff improvements

[Avaika]

If you don't wanna be involved, then don't post here. Just saying.

well, it was the only one I was going to make stating my opinion, nothing else done, nothing else will be done. That is my final answer. My final decision.

[Sapphire]

That is my final answer.

Hmmm.......YOU JUST WON A MILLION DOLLARS!!!! :lol:

[Avaika]

Hmmm.......YOU JUST WON A MILLION DOLLARS!!!!

heck awesome! XD (my last post)

[Ris Grestar]

Are you implying that you somehow feel one or more of the staff-members have acted in ways that means they shouldn't be worthy of your respect? If so, I'd really like to hear it said openly to my face, instead of having to hear it secondhand that someone have been backtalking me or the other members of the staff, which have and still do put a lot of their time and effort into protecting and serving the members of SF-O.

Here, let me put it all this way...

Do I hold respect for the staff members?  Yes.  They're running a site that I really do enjoy visiting.  It has its bad eggs, but a lot of good ones, too.

Do I think the staff is doing an okay job running the site?  Yes.  Do I think they could be doing a better job or do I think they should have handled some things much differently?  Yes.

Have I already voiced these opinions (in actual detail) to those the situations concerned?  Yes.

Have I received responses that seemed more of a "shut up, I"m staff"?  Yes.  Did I at first ignore them and keep trying to make my point?  Yes.

Have I tried to be respectful in my private messages when I address a concern to the staff?  Yes.  Have I always been respectful?  No.  Like I said, I've tried, but I won't lie.

Have I, myself, received rather sarcastic responses from members of the staff that seem to say they honestly don't care about my opinions?  Yes.

Do I hate the staff?  No.  I don't know most of them, for one, though I do dislike a few of them.  It's only natural to have people you like and people you dislike on a forum.

Again, have I already privately addressed the members of the staff whom I'm referring to?  Yes.

Was I one of the members who was on another site who made some  posts in the thread about SF-O?  I think that's obvious by this point.  Do I regret that decision?  Not at all.  I was already a member of that board and I was open to discussion.

Do I plan on leaving this site or being a troll from now on?  Heck no.  I still like this site, whether or not I like everyone here or agree with everyone's actions.  May I be a little less active than I was?  Yes, but not for these reasons.  Other things have just come up in life--It's purely coincidental.

Now then, let's backtrack just a bit.

Do I completely understand that the members of the moderation team have lives and problems of their own?  Yes.  Yes, I do, I honestly do.  I've been a moderator before and I know how hectic it can be.  Especially with you guys being older with different responsibilities, I know it's difficult to keep up with things here and I know you do what you think is best for the site and its members.  Do I always agree with your decisions?  No.

Alright, I've answered enough of my own questions for now.

[Guest Julius Quasar]

Here, let me put it all this way...

Do I hold respect for the staff members?  Yes.  They're running a site that I really do enjoy visiting.  It has its bad eggs, but a lot of good ones, too.

Do I think the staff is doing an okay job running the site?  Yes.  Do I think they could be doing a better job or do I think they should have handled some things much differently?  Yes.

Have I already voiced these opinions (in actual detail) to those the situations concerned?  Yes.

Have I received responses that seemed more of a "shut up, I"m staff"?  Yes.  Did I at first ignore them and keep trying to make my point?  Yes.

Have I tried to be respectful in my private messages when I address a concern to the staff?  Yes.  Have I always been respectful?  No.  Like I said, I've tried, but I won't lie.

Have I, myself, received rather sarcastic responses from members of the staff that seem to say they honestly don't care about my opinions?  Yes.

Do I hate the staff?  No.  I don't know most of them, for one, though I do dislike a few of them.  It's only natural to have people you like and people you dislike on a forum.

Again, have I already privately addressed the members of the staff whom I'm referring to?  Yes.

Was I one of the members who was on another site who made some  posts in the thread about SF-O?  I think that's obvious by this point.  Do I regret that decision?  Not at all.  I was already a member of that board and I was open to discussion.

Do I plan on leaving this site or being a troll from now on?  Heck no.  I still like this site, whether or not I like everyone here or agree with everyone's actions.  May I be a little less active than I was?  Yes, but not for these reasons.  Other things have just come up in life--It's purely coincidental.

Now then, let's backtrack just a bit.

Do I completely understand that the members of the moderation team have lives and problems of their own?  Yes.  Yes, I do, I honestly do.  I've been a moderator before and I know how hectic it can be.  Especially with you guys being older with different responsibilities, I know it's difficult to keep up with things here and I know you do what you think is best for the site and its members.  Do I always agree with your decisions?  No.

Alright, I've answered enough of my own questions for now.

Well said, Ris.

[Avaika]

Well said, Ris.

Highly agreed! XD

[Steve]

I love when sides change when it's all convenient  , oh well, that's life.

See? this is not too bad, one of the people that I wanted to have talking here was Ris, and he made some good points.

The only thing I really have to say, that would be a little bit out of context is, do you really think you were 100% right all those times you wrote those pms to the staff and me?

On my defense, that time you argued with me over pm because of a topic I locked was mostly because we were short on mods on the forum, I had no one else complaining, but on the other hand, someone else telling me "thanks for locking the topic". Do I think I was 100% right on locking said topic? no, not at all, but I'm sure I said something among the lines of "I know I might have locked this without a good reason, but as we are now , we don't need more drama" Did I regret doing that? sure I did , I hate when people here hold grudges against me. Did I have more important things to do at that moment? Yep. And finally, would I have done something if I had had more than one complain in my inbox? yes, I would have.

About the "shut up, I'm staff" well, I have a few words on that, if I give you that impression, then I'm sorry, I don't mean to. However, sometimes we do have reasons to do what we are doing, and they come out from experience. In this case, it was to avoid unnecessary drama. Maybe, those topics might have not ended up being flame wars/drama, who knows.

Even tho the staff has made some bad calls on the past few months, and we have all made mistakes, I still have to say, the community itself has an equal amount of fault. And because I do believe on this statement, I would rather just simply forget about our problems, because this is not going to end until one side desists.

We are better forgetting those things we can't change and look for a new beginning, don't you agree?

[Ris Grestar]

See? this is not too bad, one of the people that I wanted to have talking here was Ris, and he made some good points.

Why thank you.

The only thing I really have to say, that would be a little bit out of context is, do you really think you were 100% right all those times you wrote those pms to the staff and me?

No.  I hardly ever think I'm 100% right on anything.  After all, what are the odds of that?  Well, all you need is just one percent doubt and it's gone.  However, the staff presses that all opinions are valued, so I thought hey, might as well, right?

On my defense, that time you argued with me over pm because of a topic I locked was mostly because we were short on mods on the forum, I had no one else complaining, but on the other hand, someone else telling me "thanks for locking the topic". Do I think I was 100% right on locking said topic? no, not at all, but I'm sure I said something among the lines of "I know I might have locked this without a good reason, but as we are now , we don't need more drama" Did I regret doing that? sure I did , I hate when people here hold grudges against me. Did I have more important things to do at that moment? Yep. And finally, would I have done something if I had had more than one complain in my inbox? yes, I would have.

Well, I'm glad you remember that little discussion we had.

About the "shut up, I'm staff" well, I have a few words on that, if I give you that impression, then I'm sorry, I don't mean to. However, sometimes we do have reasons to do what we are doing, and they come out from experience. In this case, it was to avoid unnecessary drama. Maybe, those topics might have not ended up being flame wars/drama, who knows.

Thank you for the apology.  To address the second part, I'm sure there were plenty of reasons for locking topics or banning members, etc., but wouldn't it also help avoid unnecessary drama by not offending those who send you private messages concerning such situations?

Which, of course, brings me back to thanking you for the apology.

Even tho the staff has made some bad calls on the past few months, and we have all made mistakes, I still have to say, the community itself has an equal amount of fault. And because I do believe on this statement, I would rather just simply forget about our problems, because this is not going to end until one side desists.

Of course.  We're all human.  Even the best of us are bound to make mistakes.

We are better forgetting those things we can't change and look for a new beginning, don't you agree?

I'm assuming you're asking me to forgive and forget, yes?

Well, as long as the moderation team promises to do the same -and- actually sticks to it, then I will.

[DZComposer]

I've noticed something, and I think we as a community need to have a discussion about it because I think it is contributing to a lot of the crap going on.

This issue is senseless argument vs. debate.

Whenever threads start to grow a length of point/counter-point posts, people start screaming about flames and drama. People see this:

point

counter-point

And automatically assume it is a senseless argument or someone being rude. Even us staff have done this. Debate and discussion are a healthy thing, but senseless arguments are not.

It takes a little reading to distinguish senseless arguments from debates. If a couple of people are going at it, and are making reasoned, thought-out, posts, then that's debate and should be fine. If they're spouting insults at eachother, then it gets senseless.

[Steve]

I'm assuming you're asking me to forgive and forget, yes?

Well, as long as the moderation team promises to do the same -and- actually sticks to it, then I will.

Something among the lines, yes. After all, this topic is called "open thread on staff improvements"

If you ever have a problem with a mod, report  to me, and I'll talk to him/her.

And finally, as long as the community behaves, then we don't have any reason to do anything drastic  :P

[Ris Grestar]

Something among the lines, yes. After all, this topic is called "open thread on staff improvements"

If you ever have a problem with a mod, report  to me, and I'll talk to him/her.

Then I trust your open-door policy will genuinely be an open-door policy^^

[DZComposer]

Well, as long as the moderation team promises to do the same -and- actually sticks to it, then I will.

We try our best. Staff should be making a post to any thread they locked explaining why. It's one of the staff rules. I know that hasn't always been happening lately, and I apologize for not checking further in to them.

In the future, if a thread is locked without explanation and you do not receive a response from the locking mod, feel free to PM me about it. I will find out for you. Also, if you feel a thread was locked for a reason that you don't think warrants a lock, PM me and I will review it and talk with the mod who locked it about it.

My door is always open to this kind of stuff, and has been since Mr. K and I re-opened SFO all those years ago. I've even reversed my own decisions in the past.

[Fluxy]

I've noticed something, and I think we as a community need to have a discussion about it because I think it is contributing to a lot of the crap going on.

This issue is senseless argument vs. debate.

Whenever threads start to grow a length of point/counter-point posts, people start screaming about flames and drama. People see this:

counter-point

And automatically assume it is a senseless argument or someone being rude. Even us staff have done this. Debate and discussion are a healthy thing, but senseless arguments are not.

It takes a little reading to distinguish senseless arguments from debates. If a couple of people are going at it, and are making reasoned, thought-out, posts, then that's debate and should be fine. If they're spouting insults at eachother, then it gets senseless.

I do agree in the sense that some people some people can't tell the difference, and it can start more crap. I do agree. But, it is on rare occasion that I miss up on seeing something as an argument, or a debate. So, and I am not saying you are, If you are thinking of me and my earlier suggestion as one of those people who can't tell, I would just like to clarify that is not the case.

[Guest Para Astaroth]

Here is what I think should be corrected:

Make sure every freaking new member reads the forum's rules before posting a topic that has either already been started, is a duplicate, or just will eventually will turn negative.

[Guest Mr. Mario]

Get some more RP mods. Not because some people (not like me) are picky about their Rp but...all I am seeing is just full mods. We should at least have 2 more RP mods...

[Steve]

We sadly have no more RP mods...but don't worry, that's being worked out  :)

[Guest DRL]

I think that seeing the current situation

I could be 'conscripted/drafted' to be

an RP mod. I pretty much know all of

the Role-Players around, so should an

issue arose, I [should] know how to

deal with them.

Never-the-less, I will accept the position

temporarily, until a 'more official' RP Mod

is appointed.

Furthermore, you might think I am not

the best one to fill in the gap, if so is the

case, it is perfectly fine.

[CrypticQuery]

I think that seeing the current situation

I could be 'conscripted/drafted' to be

an RP mod. I pretty much know all of

the Role-Players around, so should an

issue arose, I [should] know how to

deal with them.

Never-the-less, I will accept the position

temporarily, until a 'more official' RP Mod

is appointed.

Furthermore, you might think I am not

the best one to fill in the gap, if so is the

case, it is perfectly fine.

VOTE HYPER! *salutes* :lol:

[Guest DRL]

VOTE HYPER! *salutes*

But again, please keep in mind

I do this so that the RP section

can remain active without any

[major] issues/troubles.

[CrypticQuery]

But again, please keep in mind

I do this so that the RP section

can remain active without any

[major] issues/troubles.

Yeah, someone has to keep the board from de-railing while there is no permanent RP mod.

[Guest DRL]

Yeah, someone has to keep the board from de-railing while there is no permanent RP mod.

Exactly. Without an RP mod, there are

chances an RP gets hijacked or offtopic.

[Guest Mr. Mario]

I nominate DRL and Ris Grestar for RP mods

[Milkyway64]

I've noticed something, and I think we as a community need to have a discussion about it because I think it is contributing to a lot of the crap going on.

This issue is senseless argument vs. debate.

Whenever threads start to grow a length of point/counter-point posts, people start screaming about flames and drama. People see this:

counter-point

And automatically assume it is a senseless argument or someone being rude. Even us staff have done this. Debate and discussion are a healthy thing, but senseless arguments are not.

It takes a little reading to distinguish senseless arguments from debates. If a couple of people are going at it, and are making reasoned, thought-out, posts, then that's debate and should be fine. If they're spouting insults at eachother, then it gets senseless.

YES.

This is about the only problem I run into. I've run into quite a few debate "spar" partners, only to have someone or another come in and make a big deal of it, flailing their arms, yelling not to fight, and occasionally calling mods. This of course kicks my defense into gear and things generally get worse from there or, worst case scenario, the perfectly good debate is killed outright.  :(

[Guest DRL]

VOTE HYPER! *salutes*

I nominate DRL and Ris Grestar for RP mods

Thank you for the confidence.

Never-the-less, I doubt the staff

will take up on my offer, however

I am allways willing to do the best

I can.

[Geo Stelar]

I would also like DRL as an RP mod.

However, your only 'problem' to deal with is, well.... *points to your topic in the time clock*