who's side are you on?

[KokoaMinto]

Bowser, it surely is Bowser.

I'm getting tired of the whole "Save the Princess!!" plot, but I must say Miyamoto makes a good job on making it still hilarious. Sometimes I feel sorry for Bowser when his plans get foiled because of the plumber again. Still I don't believe that Peach is the mother of his children, and she never will... xD

[Falconman]

Bowser, it surely is Bowser.

I'm getting tired of the whole "Save the Princess!!" plot, but I must say Miyamoto makes a good job on making it still hilarious. Sometimes I feel sorry for Bowser when his plans get foiled because of the plumber again. Still I don't believe that Peach is the mother of his children, and she never will... xD

i agree with u on most of what u said

[Xortberg]

Mario. Let's look at the facts here.

Bowser is:

A giant, immensely strong firebreathing turtle with spikes on his shell and an army of minions, including but not limited to: Goombas, Koopas, wizards, Chain Chomps, Bullet Bill cannons out the ass, and several personal fleets of airships.

Mario is:

A fat Italian plumber who runs around eating shrooms, flowers, and leaves and he manages to single handedly slaughter Bowser's entire army, make it past his fleet, get through a castle filled to the brim with booby-traps, and recently, even chase this overgrown turtle through fucking space, all so he can rescue the princess. That's one guy I wouldn't want to go up against.

[Falconman]

and he manages to single handedly slaughter Bowser's entire army, make it past his fleet, get through a castle filled to the brim with booby-traps, and recently, even chase this overgrown turtle through fucking space, all so he can rescue the princess. That's one guy I wouldn't want to go up against.

that is the biggest lie EVER!!!!! he always has help ALWAYS!!!!!!!!

[Xortberg]

No, until recently the only help he's gotten was from Toads telling him his princess is in another castle, thus giving him a new object to direct his plumber rage at. And even if he had help, that doesn't change the fact that in whatever war he fights with Bowser, he is THE shock trooper for it. Any help he has is just management or what have you.

[Falconman]

well lets see, mario galaxy 1 & 2: dat wierd luna thing

mario & luigi rpg: luigi

any other mario game: more than likely (90% of the time) u use a fireflower

sm64:bombs (y da hell r they there anyway?)

am i wrong?

[Xortberg]

Not taking the RPG's into account (since more often than not, he ends up teaming up with Bowser himself in them,) the Luna thing does very little unless player two is controlling him, so Mario does the vast majority of the combat there. Fireflowers don't count as 'help' so much as Mario eating a flower and, by some strange happenstance, getting the ability to throw fire balls, so they count as a weapon. The Bombs never did any actual fighting, serving instead to give Mario intel and activate some cannons so that he can fire himself out of them to reach more enemies to slaughter.

So yeah, as far as kicking the ass goes, Mario easily trumps all other characters in the series. I've seen professional Halo players with a lower bodycount than Mario has.

[Falconman]

fireflowers count as help mario cant beat bowser with is bear hands! wat a wuss

[Xortberg]

And Bowser can't beat Mario at all, even with genetic superiority and an overwhelming army of soldiers. Also...

mario cant beat bowser with is bear hands!

Super Mario 64 would like a word with you, as would both of the Galaxy games, where Mario has no special powers during the fights.

[Falconman]

r u insane?? da luna helps him & yes da luna HELPS mario hit bowser

[DoctorAllosaurus]

As much as I like Bowser, I'm gonna have to agree with Xort. Mario can whoop Bowser's ass any day.

[Falconman]

yeah right ive been in an argument with mah friend about this (& i beat him) so come on bring it on!!!

yah mario can beat bowser cuz he has help as i was sayin

[Xortberg]

r u insane?? da luna helps him & yes da luna HELPS mario hit bowser

Helps? Maybe. I don't remember much about those fights, actually, aside from the fact that Fire Flowers in those games have a time limit.

Still, you haven't addressed SM64, where Mario grabs Bowser by the tail, swings him in circles repeatedly, and then throws a giant, muscular turtle through the air. That's beast.

yeah right ive been in an argument with mah friend about this (& i beat him) so come on bring it on!!!

yah mario can beat bowser cuz he has help as i was sayin

And I'm not your friend. I've already admitted to Mario having help, but his help is in the management field rather than out on the front lines like he is, kicking ass. Bowser has help too, you know, and he relies on them for combat. He uses his help to try to kill Mario, whereas our plumbing friend needs no battlefield companion. He just single-handedly rips his way through the ranks.

[DoctorAllosaurus]

He didn't need help fighting Bowser in the original SMB and  Lost Levels. Didn't need help in SMB3, in fact he didn't even need to lay a finger on Bowser in that game. Didn't need help in Super Mario World, Mario just once again used Bowser's own stupidity against him.

[Falconman]

o rly? wat help does he have? & koopas dont rly count as help....they dont even count as enimies (srry bowser)

He didn't need help fighting Bowser in the original SMB and  Lost Levels. Didn't need help in SMB3, in fact he didn't even need to lay a finger on Bowser in that game. Didn't need help in Super Mario World, Mario just once again used Bowser's own stupidity against him.

yeah we all make stupid mistakes (mine shows up in ssbb) & of course bowser,mario,peach & evryone else has there share of stupidaty

like mario: youd think if he were smart he would teach peach to defend herself

[Xortberg]

o rly? wat help does he have? & koopas dont rly count as help....they dont even count as enimies (srry bowser)

How dangerous they are is not a factor. Goombas, Koopas, and what have you are included expressly so that they can try to kill Mario before he reaches Bowser. In addition, there are Chain Chomps, Bullet Bills, Bob-Ombs, and the wizard guys in the blue robes. plus all the Koopa kids you have to fight on the SNES.

[Falconman]

How dangerous they are is not a factor.

mabey but still, it seems like mario has no trouble getting around them & if they kill mario then u kan count them as an army

[Xortberg]

mabey but still, it seems like mario has no trouble getting around them & if they kill mario then u kan count them as an army

He has no trouble getting around them because he's a killing machine. I do count them as an army, because their purpose is to kill Mario. That is why they stand in Mario's way. They are Bowser's minions. Also, way to ignore the rest of my post there. Protip: you don't win arguments by ignoring points the other side makes.

[Falconman]

(i dont mean to)

mario is a JOKE! all mario kan RLY do is jump on bowser & minions & hit them with a hammer. & u kall that "kill"?

lets delete some things: delete mushrooms,fireflowers,iceflowers,hammers,armies,1-ups,bombs,fireballs,& anything that is threatening

mario & bowser fight, hand to hand combat, mario is an all around type so he has no SPECIAL skill

bowser is a power type,so hes all POW and no speed

now we kan argue on who would win

[DoctorAllosaurus]

Mario can and will still win, I've beaten a few of the games without touching a single power-up so I would know.

[Xortberg]

(i dont mean to)

mario is a JOKE! all mario kan RLY do is jump on bowser & minions & hit them with a hammer. & u kall that "kill"?

lets delete some things: delete mushrooms,fireflowers,iceflowers,hammers,armies,1-ups,bombs,fireballs,& anything that is threatening

mario & bowser fight, hand to hand combat, mario is an all around type so he has no SPECIAL skill

bowser is a power type,so hes all POW and no speed

now we kan argue on who would win

I shall humor you, but only for a moment: Super Mario 64.

Now, back to srs. I shall take your post one piece at a time.

mario is a JOKE! all mario kan RLY do is jump on bowser & minions & hit them with a hammer. & u kall that "kill"?

When Mario jumps on an enemy, they either A) cease to exist or B) retreat into their shell, which Mario then uses to slaughter even more enemies. And hitting someone with a hammer? How is that not lethal? It's usually as big as Mario is! Let's see you survive a direct hit from a hammer as big as you are.

lets delete some things: delete mushrooms,fireflowers,iceflowers,hammers,armies,1-ups,bombs,fireballs,& anything that is threatening

No, because under no circumstances would these conditions arise. Mushrooms and Fire Flowers will always exist. You're taking away any advantages Mario has and trying to call this a fair debate? Doesn't work that way, bro.

mario & bowser fight, hand to hand combat, mario is an all around type so he has no SPECIAL skill

bowser is a power type,so hes all POW and no speed

now we kan argue on who would win

I would like to point out several things I find wrong with your logic here.

1. Mario and Bowser in hand-to-hand has already happened - see the aforementioned SM64, proving that Mario is, while not necessarily as strong as Bowser, very strong in his own regard

2. Mario's 'special skill' is adaptability and the ability to turn anything, including mushrooms, flowers, and leaves into weapons to use against his enemies. He represents the human mind at its peak, using brains to outmaneuver foes who easily outpower him otherwise.

3. Yes, you're right about Bowser having no speed. That's why Mario can outperform him in CQC in SM64

Anything else?

EDIT:

Mario can and will still win, I've beaten a few of the games without touching a single power-up so I would know.

This too.

[Falconman]

yeah right bowser just doesnt realize how to beat mario & i would tell him.....

[Xortberg]

yeah right bowser just doesnt realize how to beat mario & i would tell him.....

However, you can't tell him. And the fact that Bowser doesn't realize how to beat Mario is debatable. He has, on occasion, shown some initiative in finding a way to foil the heroic plumber's plans. However, that's when Mario's true strengths come into play: he finds a way around whatever Bowser's doing. He is infinitely more adaptable than Bowser, and as such is very suited to combat in a changing environment. Bowser would never be able to out-think Mario, so he would always lose.

[Falconman]

However, you can't tell him. And the fact that Bowser doesn't realize how to beat Mario is debatable. He has, on occasion, shown some initiative in finding a way to foil the heroic plumber's plans. However, that's when Mario's true strengths come into play: he finds a way around whatever Bowser's doing. He is infinitely more adaptable than Bowser, and as such is very suited to combat in a changing environment. Bowser would never be able to out-think Mario, so he would always lose.

yeah marios smarter, thats it alright, i mean r u kidding? were talkin about fighting not the exam test! so wat if mario has more smarts than bowser, doesnt mean its obvious marios using them against bowser.

[Milkyway64]

Dr. Breen on Gordon Freeman:

Obviously I am not on the ground to closely command or second-guess the dedicated forces of the Overwatch, but this does not mean I can shirk responsibility for recent lapses and even outright failures on their part. I have been severely questioned about these shortcomings, and now must put the question to you: How could one man have slipped through your force's fingers time and time again? How is it possible? This is not some agent provocateur or highly trained assassin we are discussing. Gordon Freeman is a theoretical physicist who had hardly earned the distinction of his Ph.D. at the time of the Black Mesa Incident. I have good reason to believe that in the intervening years, he was in a state that precluded further development of covert skills. The man you have consistently failed to slow, let alone capture, is by all standards simply that - an ordinary man. How can you have failed to apprehend him?

Mario fits in the same sort of thing. Bowser's "army" is more competent than they appear in-game, it's just that an italian plumber originally from Boston seems to out do everyone in that army largely by himself -every time- they cause trouble is sure to frustrate the hell out of Bowser, and according to the RPGs, it does.