Mosques protests

[Guest Julius Quasar]

Key word: implies. Your choice of words leaves an impression that according to you is otherwise false to your intent. That's not putting words in your mouth.

Oh, I see

...well, being *need a term for "always putting foot in mouth"* , I can't always convey my words too well.

[Milkyway64]

Stupid, you say?

Do I smell a pity party in here or is it just me?

[Guest Julius Quasar]

Stupid, you say?

Do I smell a pity party in here or is it just me?

Naw, it's just you.  I honestly meant to say...what's a good term for " puts foot in mouth"?

[Milkyway64]

It still smells like one to me.  :|

[Guest Julius Quasar]

It still smells like one to me. 

Dude, just back off, shut up, and leave me alone, all right?  I made a mistake with that post, and didn't choose the right term.

Back OT, regarding the Mosque Protests, I hope some compromise can come soon.

["User"]

Mickey knock it off, or I'm not taking you to Anthrocon in June.

[Guest Para Astaroth]

My personal view on this is basically stay on the basis of equality -- treating EVERYONE equally and not singling anyone out as having a negative default to them.  I have made my own word and definition, which most believe is already a definition of another word, but I created it for my own rules with others.

The word is Neutralitätsfreundschaft -- German for "Neutrality friendship."  To make it simpler to understand for some of you that don't understand, I basically am friends with boths sides and will NEVER choose one if given the option to believe in one or the other.  It's similar to an old saying:  "An enemy of my enemy" by some; "Friend of my enemy, enemy to none" in my terms. 

But, the building of Mosques near the World Trade Center does seem like a bad idea since there would be A LOT of Americans constantly protesting that they be not built, or if they are to be demolished.  I can also see that if they are built that there would be a band or group of immature gruniords (Grun-yords) that would draw graphitti, throw rotten vegetables -- or fresh ones --, etc. etc. at the building just to discourage the people inside or apart of the Mosque/Muslim religion.  For me, I do not see a problem with it since these people want to express their compassion and sympathy to us Americans for their own people destroying one of our nation's memorable buildings.  Although I view the war on terrorism a war of drama and immaturity, I still just believe that we should have helped the Iranians a long time before 9/11 so that this event would have NEVER happened.  If it didn't, then our state of recession and what not wouldn't have happened, but it was unavoidable since our government is too held up in our own affairs to help other nations such as Islam, Iran, and/or Iraq.

I just believe that we should have just left the Iranians alone in the first place and aid them in bringing their nation back on their feet even though they were already in a state of poverty, and probably still are. 

["User"]

Although I view the war on terrorism a war of drama and immaturity, I still just believe that we should have helped the Iranians a long time before 9/11 so that this event would have NEVER happened. 

Why Iran?  The majority of the hijackers were from Saudi Arabia and the U.A.E.  Not one of them had an Iranian nationality.  Even if they were from Iran why would helping the government necessarily prevent something like this from happening?  Extremists have a mindset that is extremely difficult to change and helping their government wouldn't have necessarily deterred it.

If it didn't, then our state of recession and what not wouldn't have happened, but it was unavoidable since our government is too held up in our own affairs to help other nations such as Islam, Iran, and/or Iraq.

The initial spark of the recession in the U.S. were due to sub-prime mortgages which then led to the collapse of the housing industry.  9/11 occurred roughly 7-8 years before the "official start" of the recession, it had nothing to do with it.

I just believe that we should have just left the Iranians alone in the first place and aid them in bringing their nation back on their feet even though they were already in a state of poverty, and probably still are.

Iran right now is a totalitarian government led by an evil president by the name of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. The country has been extremely anti-western for some time now and, much like Iraq and Afghanistan, if you want to improve the living conditions of the people there you'd probably have to invade and force the regime out which wouldn't surprise me if America was to do that because of the nuclear program that Iran currently has.  Tensions are already at their peak between the two countries (and Israel) in quite some time. >_>

[Robert Monroe]

Naw, it's just you.  I honestly meant to say...what's a good term for " puts foot in mouth"?

"I put my foot in my mouth" is a good term. Not sarcastic.

[Guest Julius Quasar]

Back on topic, there have been other protests against other mosques in other parts of the country.  Wisconsin, Tennessee, even out where I live.   

[Robert Monroe]

Back on topic, there have been other protests against other mosques in other parts of the country.  Wisconsin, Tennessee, even out where I live. 

I heard of those on the Daily Show. Wisconsin especially surprises me, because its one of the most progressive states.

[Xortberg]

Julius, I don't know you very well, but the impression you're giving in this topic - to be quite honest - makes me not want to know you at all. There's been far too much said for me to quote it all, so I'll just begin by addressing my issues with your very way of thinking, and this whole thing can get off the ground from there, m'kay?

You say you hate Muslims as a rule, because the Muslims you've met are assholes and because the 9/11 terrorists were Muslim. Well, I hate Christians because most of the Christians I know are assholes and because Timothy McVeigh bombed Oklahoma City. See how retarded that is? See how close-minded and bigoted that thinking is?

You say that you have several ex-Muslim friends who tell you that Islam is a horrible religion, and that they're happy to be converts. I know many Muslims, and none of them are terrorists and follow the extremist teachings.

You've admitted that the other people who have pretty much said the same things I said have valid points, and you still cling to your hatred. That's stupid, and will do nothing but cause more conflict. Ever hear of a concept called 'self-fulfilling prophecy'? It means that, if you think that all Muslims are terrorist assholes, and convey that through your words and actions, some Muslims will eventually get fed up and go suicide-bomber on your ass.

On to the actual discussion, though. The protesters are retards. It isn't a "mosque", as has already been stated, it isn't even ON Ground Zero, and the Muslims who participated in the attack are about as representative of Islam as Timmy McVeigh is of Christianity.

In response to Robert and his spiels about how telling Americans to get over the attacks, yeah, you're kind of right. It was a horrible thing, and everyone in the country was affected by it in some way. Still, when 8-9 years pass and we've still got Alan Jackson singing about when the world stopped turning and Americans still giving Islam a bunch of shit for a crime the religion didn't commit, I'm pretty tempted to tell them just to shut up and move on myself. I mean, never forget what happened, and never attempt to trivialize the lives lost, but Americans get so caught up in memorializing anything that happens to us that it makes me sick. Personal opinion and all, so it really doesn't make much of a difference, but that's how I feel.

As for the Muslims in particular being stubborn and shit, of course! They've been getting flak for the attacks since they happened. Most everyone at my school (Hicksville, Kentucky, so no surprises there, really) hates Muslims for a crime they didn't commit a decade ago. I'd be pretty fed up with everything too. I think that they are more than justified to stand firm against the protests.

Back on topic, there have been other protests against other mosques in other parts of the country.  Wisconsin, Tennessee, even out where I live.

Mayfield, Kentucky is just a short drive from me. There's been a bunch of crap going down about the proposed mosque there.

I suppose I'll leave it at that for now.

[fox1235]

Anyone seen this ad yet.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot/20100901/pl_yblog_upshot/muslim-americans-launch-pr-initiaive-promote-911-as-day-of-national-service

[Sabre]

I agree with some of your points, but since you are 'new' here, I will explain breifly the difference between bigotted thought and learning.

Bigots are powered by a sence of superiority. eg. "White are superior to blacks."

However, leaning is gained through experience. eg. If you touch a hot pan, and burn your hand, and you touch it again and burn your hand again, would you touch the hot pan again? If so you're an idiot, if not, by your logic, your pan-ist.

Example. I don't like people in wheelchairs. I have been around cripples alot. Every one of them was an arse hole who used the sympathy to get their own way. Logically speaking there is no reason to believe all wheelchair people are like this, but having met plenty, it's better to assume they will be arse holes. In other words, it's better to assume the hot pan will burn your hand until proven otherwise.

[Xortberg]

I agree with some of your points, but since you are 'new' here, I will explain breifly the difference between bigotted thought and learning.

Bigots are powered by a sence of superiority. eg. "White are superior to blacks."

Alright, here's the deal. Being 'new' here has absolutely no bearing on my knowledge regarding bigotry and learning. In fact, I dare you to even fantasize that you have a greater grasp over the English language than I do. For example.

Bigot, as defined by Dictionary.com: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

Nothing was once mentioned about a feeling of superiority. That's called Social Darwinism. Instead, bigotry is obstinately devoted oneself to prejudice and hatred, which is exactly what Julius was doing. Strike one.

However, leaning is gained through experience. eg. If you touch a hot pan, and burn your hand, and you touch it again and burn your hand again, would you touch the hot pan again? If so you're an idiot, if not, by your logic, your pan-ist.

As I believe Robert already said, the hot pan analogy does not apply to PEOPLE. People are different than a hot pan. A hot pan will always be hot. A person will sometimes be an ass. People are complex. A heated pan is scientifically proven to not be complex, in that it always follows the same behavior. There's not certain pieces of iron that just decide 'Oh, I don't think I want to heat up. Laws of physics state that a heated object will always heat up. Humans have no true laws regarding what determines aspects of our personality. Strike two.

Example. I don't like people in wheelchairs. I have been around cripples alot. Every one of them was an arse hole who used the sympathy to get their own way. Logically speaking there is no reason to believe all wheelchair people are like this, but having met plenty, it's better to assume they will be arse holes. In other words, it's better to assume the hot pan will burn your hand until proven otherwise.

Innocent until proven guilty, dude. You're the only person I've ever met from England (I'm almost certain I read in the Love Life topic that you were from there, so if I'm wrong, apologies), and since you're a total asshat, all Brits must be asshats too. NO! YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG! You, an individual, make up less than a percent of the British population. Assuming all Englishmen are asses based off of you is stupid and bigoted. You have only met a small, small portion of handicapped people. They are not representatives of handicapped people as a whole, so you're simply making a douchey assumption based off of a few bad experiences. As I said to Julius, self-fulfilling prophecies. If you treat people like they're asses, they'll be an ass to you.

Strike three, you're out.

[Guest FoXXX]

I'm with DZComposer on this. These people have the right to build their mosque, be it near the WTC site or anyplace else. I don't agree with their beliefs, but religious freedom is one of the many things this country was built upon. If the people that attacked the WTC were Christians, would people be in an uproar because somebody wanted to build a Christian church building near Ground Zero? No, because people view "Christians" as people who are loving and peaceful, and view Muslims as evil people that blow themselves up and fly planes into buildings.

[Sabre]

I'm with DZComposer on this. These people have the right to build their mosque, be it near the WTC site or anyplace else. I don't agree with their beliefs, but religious freedom is one of the many things this country was built upon. If the people that attacked the WTC were Christians, would people be in an uproar because somebody wanted to build a Christian church building near Ground Zero? No, because people view "Christians" as people who are loving and peaceful, and view Muslims as evil people that blow themselves up and fly planes into buildings.

In the current news narative, yes.

[Xortberg]

I'm with DZComposer on this. These people have the right to build their mosque, be it near the WTC site or anyplace else. I don't agree with their beliefs, but religious freedom is one of the many things this country was built upon. If the people that attacked the WTC were Christians, would people be in an uproar because somebody wanted to build a Christian church building near Ground Zero? No, because people view "Christians" as people who are loving and peaceful, and view Muslims as evil people that blow themselves up and fly planes into buildings.

I've said the same think to countless people. It's just the fact that America's become so backwards-assed that we really can't think for ourselves anymore, for the most part. Even several people I know - otherwise intelligent people, I might add - get their news and such from heavily biased Christian T.V. or Fox News. Of course, it's not entirely America's fault. It's difficult to find even a remotely unbiased news source, and not everyone has the time or motivation to sift through all the bullshit to find the truth.

[Robert Monroe]

I've said the same think to countless people. It's just the fact that America's become so backwards-assed that we really can't think for ourselves anymore, for the most part. Even several people I know - otherwise intelligent people, I might add - get their news and such from heavily biased Christian T.V. or Fox News. Of course, it's not entirely America's fault. It's difficult to find even a remotely unbiased news source, and not everyone has the time or motivation to sift through all the bullshit to find the truth.

America isn't really as backwards assed as you'd think. Do remember we are a nation of 600 million people. That's a lot to account for.

[Guest FoXXX]

America isn't really as backwards assed as you'd think. Do remember we are a nation of 600 million people. That's a lot to account for.

You mean ALL of North America or just the US? I thought there was just a little more than 300M in the US :o

[Kursed]

That's still fallacy of association. To "hate" all muslims because the ones you know are assholes is incredibly petty.

Anyway, I'm confliced on the issue. The protestors are being rather bigoted (claiming things like Muslims declared war on us and all), but at the same time... why build a MOSQUE at Ground Zero? I think a national monument would be much better use of te ground.

I agree with this completely however i'm completely 'sheltered' from any info on this what is the mosqu for? Why build it here? Why why why?

If I had more info on this I could formulate a proper responce.

after seeing Obama elected (persoonLy I don't think he was prepared)  I really want to look into things before I say much about them.

[Robert Monroe]

You mean ALL of North America or just the US? I thought there was just a little more than 300M in the US

Oh, my bad, I did mean 300 million.

Still a damn lot.

I agree with this completely however i'm completely 'sheltered' from any info on this what is the mosqu for? Why build it here? Why why why?

If I had more info on this I could formulate a proper responce.

after seeing Obama elected (persoonLy I don't think he was prepared)  I really want to look into things before I say much about them.

Because the region has a large Muslim population and no community center for them to hang out at, and the building was vaccant and up for grabs.

[Kursed]

If that's the case why Ground zero it's making a lot of people mad. I've heard that muslims are truley peace loving people only the minority are terrorist. apparently they think as well as we do lol.

[Robert Monroe]

If that's the case why Ground zero it's making a lot of people mad. I've heard that muslims are truley peace loving people only the minority are terrorist. apparently they think as well as we do lol.

Its not at Ground Zero.

Its 2 blocks away from it.

There are a few other mosques in the area to (that aren't community centers), all less than 5 blocks away.

[Kursed]

okay fine I shall correct myself

1. Why so close

2. why complain? If for once we could talk this out it would goo smoothly.