The LGBT Wedge

[Sabre]

I was reading up on a couple of penn and teller episodes I can't be bothered watching. One is pyramid scemes which I avoided because it's blood obvious, and teen sex, because I have no interest on the matter and I already plan to educate any kids I have from an early age.

Anyway. While reading, the summery mentioned that it suports LGBTA and Straight Allys. Confused, a wikipediaed them and found something weird. Before I say what, I will acknowlage this is likely cultural, as the USA tends to be very backwards on these things.

Apparently Gays, Lesbian, Transexuals, Bisexuals and everything else (I will simply refer to as gays from now on) strat their own clubs and groups where they hang out and be gay. Anyone who doesn't hate them is considered a straight ally.

...Am I the only person that thinks this is counter productive? Surly by forming gay only groups, you are creating a wedge between yourself and everyone else? Here there are gay bars and night clubs, but

A- what is happening in a school at these gay clubs if they are below age of consent?

B- If you believe gays are born gay, isn't excluding straights from these clubs a bit like having a whites only chess club? The only other option that I can see is

C- That you believe gays are somehow inferior/superior and thus can't compete in whatever it is your doing.

Am I the only person who finds that ...dodgy?

[fox1235]

I was reading up on a couple of penn and teller episodes I can't be bothered watching. One is pyramid scemes which I avoided because it's blood obvious, and teen sex, because I have no interest on the matter and I already plan to educate any kids I have from an early age.

Anyway. While reading, the summery mentioned that it suports LGBTA and Straight Allys. Confused, a wikipediaed them and found something weird. Before I say what, I will acknowlage this is likely cultural, as the USA tends to be very backwards on these things.

Apparently Gays, Lesbian, Transexuals, Bisexuals and everything else (I will simply refer to as gays from now on) strat their own clubs and groups where they hang out and be gay. Anyone who doesn't hate them is considered a straight ally.

...Am I the only person that thinks this is counter productive? Surly by forming gay only groups, you are creating a wedge between yourself and everyone else? Here there are gay bars and night clubs, but

A- what is happening in a school at these gay clubs if they are below age of consent?

B- If you believe gays are born gay, isn't excluding straights from these clubs a bit like having a whites only chess club? The only other option that I can see is

C- That you believe gays are somehow inferior/superior and thus can't compete in whatever it is your doing.

Am I the only person who finds that ...dodgy?

I heard that we have this club at our high school, I'm fine with it. Gays have straight friends, but sometimes they might to talk to someone they in common with them.

Like we all like starfox, but we don't think people who don't like starfox are inferior.

[Guest DRL]

To be honest, I find agree on you

at some point. However, as I dislike

LGBT only groups, I dislike straight-only

groups, or white/black/asian-only groups, too.

Also, reffering to all of them as gays is kind

of short-sighted. I am asexual, and thus I can

not fall by 'homosexual' - since it will be

false.

[Robert Monroe]

I was reading up on a couple of penn and teller episodes I can't be bothered watching. One is pyramid scemes which I avoided because it's blood obvious, and teen sex, because I have no interest on the matter and I already plan to educate any kids I have from an early age.

Anyway. While reading, the summery mentioned that it suports LGBTA and Straight Allys. Confused, a wikipediaed them and found something weird. Before I say what, I will acknowlage this is likely cultural, as the USA tends to be very backwards on these things.

Apparently Gays, Lesbian, Transexuals, Bisexuals and everything else (I will simply refer to as gays from now on) strat their own clubs and groups where they hang out and be gay. Anyone who doesn't hate them is considered a straight ally.

...Am I the only person that thinks this is counter productive? Surly by forming gay only groups, you are creating a wedge between yourself and everyone else? Here there are gay bars and night clubs, but

A- what is happening in a school at these gay clubs if they are below age of consent?

B- If you believe gays are born gay, isn't excluding straights from these clubs a bit like having a whites only chess club? The only other option that I can see is

C- That you believe gays are somehow inferior/superior and thus can't compete in whatever it is your doing.

Am I the only person who finds that ...dodgy?

Its iffy. On the one hand you have a good point that is to a degree true. On the other hand, why the heck would gays want straights at their clubs? Beyond that, people can choose to have exclusive clubs, but that said it is rather bigoted, and if say there was a "White Chess Club", it -would- get shot down instantly because of that.

[Sabre]

Its iffy. On the one hand you have a good point that is to a degree true. On the other hand, why the heck would gays want straights at their clubs? Beyond that, people can choose to have exclusive clubs, but that said it is rather bigoted, and if say there was a "White Chess Club", it -would- get shot down instantly because of that.

Why wouldn't they want straights at their club?

[Robert Monroe]

Why wouldn't they want straights at their club?

Why WOULD they want them? *shrugs* It'd be pretty awkward I'd imagine, depending on the club.

[Sarita]

They also have gay-straight alliances.

The way I see it though, is a "special interests" club. I'm pretty sure straight people aren't really interested in being gay. :)

[DZComposer]

The main reason for this is that there is a lot of persecution of LGBT people, especially in the southern part of the country. There are still many places, not the least of which being the military, where coming out can lead to massive negative impact on a person's life. LGBT groups and clubs exist because gays won't discriminate against eachother for being gay in those situations.

The same thing also happens with race, though not to the degree it used to.

[Sabre]

They also have gay-straight alliances.

The way I see it though, is a "special interests" club. I'm pretty sure straight people aren't really interested in being gay.

Right, but these are kids we're talking about. So what gay specific things could they be doing that the straight equivelents are allowed to.

The main reason for this is that there is a lot of persecution of LGBT people, especially in the southern part of the country. There are still many places, not the least of which being the military, where coming out can lead to massive negative impact on a person's life. LGBT groups and clubs exist because gays won't discriminate against eachother for being gay in those situations.

The same thing also happens with race, though not to the degree it used to.

Right, but my point was, if they want to treated fairly. Sealing off their own little corner with a big sign saying "No straights allowed" is going to make them more rediculed, along with any straights they happen to be friends with. Also, these clubs only exsist because of possitive discrimination, as I pointed out, an all white club or a straights only club would be unacceptable.

[Fira-Astrali]

Its iffy. On the one hand you have a good point that is to a degree true. On the other hand, why the heck would gays want straights at their clubs? Beyond that, people can choose to have exclusive clubs, but that said it is rather bigoted, and if say there was a "White Chess Club", it -would- get shot down instantly because of that.

You're comment about why the heck would gay ppl want straights in their club alarms me as much as someone saying why would straights want gays in their clubs. I think having sexuality-exclusive clubs are ridiculous, unless they somehow involve the sexuality. I dont think who you choose to have as a mate affects your ability to play chess, or pretty much anything else in normal life. I mean, if these are regular clubs in a school setting, than I think this is counter-productive. I thought the game-plan was to treat people equally?

Why WOULD they want them? *shrugs* It'd be pretty awkward I'd imagine, depending on the club.

I'm quite active in my GSA, and its not awkward at all. Its only awkward if you make it so.

Right, but my point was, if they want to treated fairly. Sealing off their own little corner with a big sign saying "No straights allowed" is going to make them more rediculed, along with any straights they happen to be friends with. Also, these clubs only exsist because of possitive discrimination, as I pointed out, an all white club or a straights only club would be unacceptable.

Hmn, i suppose you could look at these clubs are affirmitave action. they've been cast out of groups for so long, maybe its time that they had a group of their own?

[Robert Monroe]

You're comment about why the heck would gay ppl want straights in their club alarms me as much as someone saying why would straights want gays in their clubs. I think having sexuality-exclusive clubs are ridiculous, unless they somehow involve the sexuality. I dont think who you choose to have as a mate affects your ability to play chess, or pretty much anything else in normal life. I mean, if these are regular clubs in a school setting, than I think this is counter-productive. I thought the game-plan was to treat people equally?

I'm quite active in my GSA, and its not awkward at all. Its only awkward if you make it so.

Hmn, i suppose you could look at these clubs are affirmitave action. they've been cast out of groups for so long, maybe its time that they had a group of their own?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but most gay clubs involve actual homosexual practices right? They aren't just an exclusive club for gays, but also a center of gay activity as well. The two types of clubs are very, very different.

Then again, I could be wrong, I've never seen a gay bar in my life. But I'm fairly certain most heterosexual men don't want to go to a bar where homosexual men are getting active. (and before you go durrhurr stereotyping that all gays are sexual deviants, straight bars are just as bad. There's plenty of lewd behavior in them as well.)

[Fira-Astrali]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but most gay clubs involve actual homosexual practices right? They aren't just an exclusive club for gays, but also a center of gay activity as well. The two types of clubs are very, very different.

Oh, well then thats completely different. I was under the impression that when Sabre said "clubs" he meant in-school clubs, like chess club, sports teams, crap like that. Having segregated clubs is counter-productive. But if we are talking gay NIGHT clubs, well that is something very different all together, and that makes total sense. Birds of a feather, would rather party together.

Then again, I could be wrong, I've never seen a gay bar in my life. But I'm fairly certain most heterosexual men don't want to go to a bar where homosexual men are getting active. (and before you go durrhurr stereotyping that all gays are sexual deviants, straight bars are just as bad. There's plenty of lewd behavior in them as well.)

okay, well now that we are talking gay-bars, thats different. Yes, straight men would probably be VERY uncomfortable in a gay bar, and if your a female, its not a really good idea either. Straight women that accompany gay friends to gay bars are rewarded with the lovely nickname of Fag Hag, at least in my area. (and there will be no durrhurring from me, lewd behaviour seems to be the name of the club-scene game, no matter your orientation)

[Sabre]

Oh, well then thats completely different. I was under the impression that when Sabre said "clubs" he meant in-school clubs, like chess club, sports teams, crap like that. Having segregated clubs is counter-productive. But if we are talking gay NIGHT clubs, well that is something very different all together, and that makes total sense. Birds of a feather, would rather party together.

okay, well now that we are talking gay-bars, thats different. Yes, straight men would probably be VERY uncomfortable in a gay bar, and if your a female, its not a really good idea either. Straight women that accompany gay friends to gay bars are rewarded with the lovely nickname of Fag Hag, at least in my area. (and there will be no durrhurring from me, lewd behaviour seems to be the name of the club-scene game, no matter your orientation)

Correct. Gay night clubs are fine, but we are talking about school clubs and none gay related clubs here. Being below the age of consent, and dating ect being frowned upon even by straights.

Affirmitive action is a really bad justification for anything. It's like saying "I can be racist now because your dead grand dad was racist 50 years ago".

[Robert Monroe]

Correct. Gay night clubs are fine, but we are talking about school clubs and none gay related clubs here. Being below the age of consent, and dating ect being frowned upon even by straights.

Affirmitive action is a really bad justification for anything. It's like saying "I can be racist now because your dead grand dad was racist 50 years ago".

Well that's different then. I don't know any "gay exclusive" domestic clubs. In fact, its the first I've heard of them.

[Sarita]

okay, well now that we are talking gay-bars, thats different. Yes, straight men would probably be VERY uncomfortable in a gay bar, and if your a female, its not a really good idea either. Straight women that accompany gay friends to gay bars are rewarded with the lovely nickname of Fag Hag, at least in my area. (and there will be no durrhurring from me, lewd behaviour seems to be the name of the club-scene game, no matter your orientation)

My sister goes to gay bars and parties there because she doesn't get hit on. I guess our gays are nicer? As long as they know you're straight, they leave you alone.

[Fira-Astrali]

My sister goes to gay bars and parties there because she doesn't get hit on. I guess our gays are nicer? As long as they know you're straight, they leave you alone.

Lol, well, Torontonians can be pricks, so thats probably y :P

["User"]

Lol, well, Torontonians can be pricks, so thats probably y

I'm in agreement on this.  This goes for the Greater Toronto Area as a whole. :P

[Konchaski]

Most gay bars in my area aren't even exclusively gay, so literally when I read this the first time I raised my eyebrow and kind of thought "The fuck you talkin' bout?" I do know some bars that have gay people hang out in them downtown, but they don't seem all that different from straight bars. The only reason I knew they were gay bars was because I asked what that place was and why they didn't go there, and they commented that gay people hang there.

So I went there, it didn't seem any different. Just the people were gay and probably were curious why I was there. Kind of chilled, talked with people, then went on my way.

Really, from the sound of it, reminds me of back in the day with my story my grandpa told me when he hung out at a bar in Milwaukee with some friends. So he decided to bring more friends, who happened to be his own race, and then a lot of the white people got uncomfortable because of this and left. I really think this is probably a similar effect? They're not even banning straights as so much as many feel so uncomfortable to approach them and just chill.

[Kid_Cortet]

Its iffy. On the one hand you have a good point that is to a degree true. On the other hand, why the heck would gays want straights at their clubs? Beyond that, people can choose to have exclusive clubs, but that said it is rather bigoted, and if say there was a "White Chess Club", it -would- get shot down instantly because of that.

ok so you want openly gay people at your bar? I find it ok (not just saying this cause i am gay) but because to all you straight guys out there, would you want to hit on a chick only to find out she has absolutely no interest in you and to randomly get into a conversation with a good guy only to find out he was sooner or later putting the moves on you??

so to have bars and clubs were you have "straight" people to mainly go and "gay" orientated bars/clubs

[Robert Monroe]

ok so you want openly gay people at your bar? I find it ok (not just saying this cause i am gay) but because to all you straight guys out there, would you want to hit on a chick only to find out she has absolutely no interest in you and to randomly get into a conversation with a good guy only to find out he was sooner or later putting the moves on you??

so to have bars and clubs were you have "straight" people to mainly go and "gay" orientated bars/clubs

I liked the part where you completely missed the entire point of my post.