The eyes are windows...

[Fira-Astrali]

I got into a debate with someone today, about what love was. he tried to give me a dictionary definition of it, and i said it was something in your soul. He told me he was sceptical that existed, too.

And I realized, never in my whole life have I questioned the existence of a soul. I mean, it seemed so easy to see, when you looked into a person's eyes, or in the way they speak or act. But then, I'm the type of person that believes that every living thing has a soul.

So I ask you. Do you believe there is such thing as a soul?

[Vy'drach]

I tend to lean towards the idea that things have souls. After all, what is a body after all? Just tissue. If it was just tissue that made a person it doesn't seem it would be that hard to bring someone back from the dead. And why some wounds can be quickly fatal for one person, but another person can live for a long time (or even survive) the same wounds.

Also why I believe some people have traits or beliefs that have nothing to do with anything in their upbringing. It is just something about them, not their environment.

[Sabre]

No. It's all magic make believe "Humans are special" crap. I have eye contact issues, and on the rare occation  overcome them it freaks people out. By that logic, I am evil because my soul is evil, because eye contact isn't normal or important to me.

After all, what is a body after all? Just tissue. If it was just tissue that made a person it doesn't seem it would be that hard to bring someone back from the dead.

Imagine taking the most intricate grandfather clock or computer, smashing it, handing a person some nails and saying "Fix that". Due in part to religion and hippies, we are so far behind on the science of the human body. We have the technolagy to grow organs, but it's seen as immoral. We can improve people with abilities beyond what they have now, but it's 'sacred ground' ect ect ect.

[Vy'drach]

Imagine taking the most intricate grandfather clock or computer, smashing it, handing a person some nails and saying "Fix that". Due in part to religion and hippies, we are so far behind on the science of the human body. We have the technolagy to grow organs, but it's seen as immoral. We can improve people with abilities beyond what they have now, but it's 'sacred ground' ect ect ect.

You can take the clock once it wears down, however, replace the parts that are worn, and it will run beautifully again. Replacing parts isn't the same as bringing em back.

[Sabre]

You can take the clock once it wears down, however, replace the parts that are worn, and it will run beautifully again. Replacing parts isn't the same as bringing em back.

Yes it is. The main difference is that the clock doesn't rot the moment it stops.

[Fira-Astrali]

No. It's all magic make believe "Humans are special" crap. I have eye contact issues, and on the rare occation  overcome them it freaks people out. By that logic, I am evil because my soul is evil, because eye contact isn't normal or important to me.

actually, equating the lack of ability to make eye contact with having an evil soul makes no sense whatsover :|

[Guest Julius Quasar]

So I ask you. Do you believe there is such thing as a soul?

Yes.  As a conscious living being, you are a soul...your body and soul are one, but after the body dies, the soul continues to exist.

actually, equating the lack of ability to make eye contact with having an evil soul makes no sense whatsover

exactly...*eyes glow bright red* 

Pablo Neruda says "Laughter is the language of the soul!".

[Redeemer]

I believe there is a soul. Hell, I believe animals, plants and even the planet have a soul. It's what makes us, us.

Call me over-spiritual or whatever you like, but it's what I believe. :3

[Fira-Astrali]

Yes.  As a conscious living being, you are a soul...your body and soul are one, but after the body dies, the soul continues to exist.

exactly...*eyes glow bright red* 

Pablo Neruda says "Laughter is the language of the soul!".

hmn, that is an interesting theory, that your physical self is a part of the soul? That's very profound!

... And if you think about it, it makes alot of sense! Exercise has been known to help combat depression, so maybe taking care of your physical self helps in taking care of the soul? Most interesting!

I believe there is a soul. Hell, I believe animals, plants and even the planet have a soul. It's what makes us, us.

Call me over-spiritual or whatever you like, but it's what I believe. :3

That's what I believe too, every living thing has a soul, and all those souls are connected.

[Sabre]

Urg. This makes no sence at all. What method is their for the soul to exsist? What purpose does it serve? Where do they go when you die? Can your soul be injured? How would you even detect it? Where is it kept? Why, What, How, Where?

Exercise has been known to help combat depression

That's a bold claim. As someone here knows, I get all sad and angry after a period of keeping fit. Beyond the innitial rush I don't think theres any lasting mental effect, esp for depression.

Also if souls are connected, what are they doing?

actually, equating the lack of ability to make eye contact with having an evil soul makes no sense whatsover

"I mean, it seemed so easy to see, when you looked into a person's eyes, or in the way they speak or act. "

Eye contact scared people, and my actions intimidate. My speach is blunt and to the point which people don't like. By that messure, something about my soul is uplessant and scary to normal people. Therefore, if most people are 'good' then I must be 'evil'. It's logic based on your rules.

["User"]

Not to toot my own horn here but I found it funny how I was able to pretty much predict how people would give their opinion before I read their post - especially with Sabre and Julius, given how they usually are on SFO.

All that aside, yes I believe there's such a concept as a soul and no, I'm not going to go into an elaborate debate/argument about it in this topic.  :wink:

[Fira-Astrali]

That's a bold claim. As someone here knows, I get all sad and angry after a period of keeping fit. Beyond the innitial rush I don't think theres any lasting mental effect, esp for depression.

Well, as someone who has dealt with depression, I do believe it has helped me. I'm sure you'll call in the placebo effect for that tho.

"I mean, it seemed so easy to see, when you looked into a person's eyes, or in the way they speak or act. "

Eye contact scared people, and my actions intimidate. My speach is blunt and to the point which people don't like. By that messure, something about my soul is uplessant and scary to normal people. Therefore, if most people are 'good' then I must be 'evil'. It's logic based on your rules.

I don't really make eye contact with people either, not because I don't want too, but because its hard for me to stay focused when I have to look at someone's face. I am also blunt and sarcastic, and to some ppl I'm a total shit. That doesn't mean I have a shitty soul, it means that some parts of my personality not everybody likes. Other parts of me people like alot. As in you, there are some parts of your personality people like, and some that they don't.  You're trying to equate the way people view you as good and evil in your soul, when people's views really have no bearing on it. It's not logic, because you are drawing a line in the sand and saying "If I'm not their definition of good, than I must be evil" which is utter bullshit. Surely you of all people would see that things are not that clear? I suppose it depends on your definition of good and evil tho.

[Guest Julius Quasar]

hmn, that is an interesting theory, that your physical self is a part of the soul? That's very profound!

... And if you think about it, it makes alot of sense! Exercise has been known to help combat depression, so maybe taking care of your physical self helps in taking care of the soul? Most interesting!

Thanks!

[Vy'drach]

Urg. This makes no sence at all. What method is their for the soul to exsist? What purpose does it serve? Where do they go when you die? Can your soul be injured? How would you even detect it? Where is it kept? Why, What, How, Where?

For the first one, we have no idea considering we know next to nothing about how the universe works and how things fall into place with each other, but if I hazard a guess, I'd say as a form of energy.

For its purpose, animating your body and defining who you are, and perhaps things we can't even begin to imagine, would be my guess.

As for where they go, also an unknown. I personally believe in reincarnation since Heaven and Hell just seems like a waste of souls. Why would there be a need for more souls to be created or so if there is such a supply of them already. You get one pass at the material world, then get tossed into what is essentially a "used" bin? Good or bad, it is still a used bin. That just doesn't make sense to me.

As for being injured, who knows? If it is energy, not likely, as energy can not be destroyed. We have no idea what a soul is, so we can only wildly guess that type of thing.

How could you detect it? Also unknown, since we have no idea what they are, what they're made of, and such like that. Problem is with trying to rationalize them in today's standards. We don't understand it, and it may be a long time before we do, if we ever do at all. Doesn't make it, "silly nonsense" or anything. After all, things we have today would be considered magick or devilwork in the eyes of people from several centuries ago. Why can't a soul or something be figured out in the future, becoming science then as opposed to magical or spiritual matters now?

As for where its kept, I imagine the entire body, as they have had people who recently lost a limb put the stub under a thermal camera of sorts, and the image still shows them with a hand, or arm, or leg, or whatever they lost. The energy is still there for a time, just not the physical portion.

[Fira-Astrali]

As for being injured, who knows? If it is energy, not likely, as energy can not be destroyed. We have no idea what a soul is, so we can only wildly guess that type of thing.

Do you think maybe mental illnesses like depression could be injuries to the soul, and that's why they effect a person so deeply, or that is centred completely in the brain?

[Vy'drach]

Do you think maybe mental illnesses like depression could be injuries to the soul, and that's why they effect a person so deeply, or that is centred completely in the brain?

Dunno. Again, it's something we can't really understand. Taking a wild guess, I imagine that is more something to do with the physical brain than the soul.

[Sabre]

Well, as someone who has dealt with depression, I do believe it has helped me. I'm sure you'll call in the placebo effect for that tho.

I don't really make eye contact with people either, not because I don't want too, but because its hard for me to stay focused when I have to look at someone's face. I am also blunt and sarcastic, and to some ppl I'm a total shit. That doesn't mean I have a shitty soul, it means that some parts of my personality not everybody likes. Other parts of me people like alot. As in you, there are some parts of your personality people like, and some that they don't.  You're trying to equate the way people view you as good and evil in your soul, when people's views really have no bearing on it. It's not logic, because you are drawing a line in the sand and saying "If I'm not their definition of good, than I must be evil" which is utter bullshit. Surely you of all people would see that things are not that clear? I suppose it depends on your definition of good and evil tho.

Fair enough. The best we could say is less appealing then normal. But that post also raises another question, what elements does the soul control, and why?

Do you think maybe mental illnesses like depression could be injuries to the soul, and that's why they effect a person so deeply, or that is centred completely in the brain?

But mental states can be influenced with drugs or bangs to the head. By that logic, soul is interchangable with brain.

For the first one, we have no idea considering we know next to nothing about how the universe works and how things fall into place with each other, but if I hazard a guess, I'd say as a form of energy.

For its purpose, animating your body and defining who you are, and perhaps things we can't even begin to imagine, would be my guess.

As for where they go, also an unknown. I personally believe in reincarnation since Heaven and Hell just seems like a waste of souls. Why would there be a need for more souls to be created or so if there is such a supply of them already. You get one pass at the material world, then get tossed into what is essentially a "used" bin? Good or bad, it is still a used bin. That just doesn't make sense to me.

As for being injured, who knows? If it is energy, not likely, as energy can not be destroyed. We have no idea what a soul is, so we can only wildly guess that type of thing.

How could you detect it? Also unknown, since we have no idea what they are, what they're made of, and such like that. Problem is with trying to rationalize them in today's standards. We don't understand it, and it may be a long time before we do, if we ever do at all. Doesn't make it, "silly nonsense" or anything. After all, things we have today would be considered magick or devilwork in the eyes of people from several centuries ago. Why can't a soul or something be figured out in the future, becoming science then as opposed to magical or spiritual matters now?

As for where its kept, I imagine the entire body, as they have had people who recently lost a limb put the stub under a thermal camera of sorts, and the image still shows them with a hand, or arm, or leg, or whatever they lost. The energy is still there for a time, just not the physical portion.

That make not a bit of sence. Energy is the stored ability to do work. You expend energy doing things. Replace soul and energy with "stored abilty to do work" and it doesn't make any sence at all.

The rest of your argument is a huge, massive god of the gaps argument. Maybe not even that as you are making the gap yourself then filling that gap with your own spirituality.

[Robert Monroe]

lol Sabre u mad because people beleive in something you can't wrap your mind around. It's called supernatural for a reason.

Anyway, yeah, I beleive in souls. Course, I also beleive that more than just humans have them too.

[Vy'drach]

That make not a bit of sence. Energy is the stored ability to do work. You expend energy doing things. Replace soul and energy with "stored abilty to do work" and it doesn't make any sence at all.

The rest of your argument is a huge, massive god of the gaps argument. Maybe not even that as you are making the gap yourself then filling that gap with your own spirituality.

Energy is not just the stored ability to do work. That is one scientific definition of it maybe, but it is just a means to generally explain energy. That isn't something that should really be generalized, however, as there are many different forms and functions of energy.

And of course there are gaps. Science is at best in its infancy. We don't know everything about everything. What is spiritual or supernatural today can be a common scientific occurrence in the future, assuming that humans ever come to really understand them.

I tend to think it takes more than organs to make a living creature, considering we have living things with no brains, but they're still alive. There are living things with no real organs to speak of, such as plantlife, but they're still alive.

[Sabre]

lol Sabre u mad because people beleive in something you can't wrap your mind around. It's called supernatural for a reason.

Anyway, yeah, I beleive in souls. Course, I also beleive that more than just humans have them too.

It's also called bollocks for a reason. The supernatural belief is a symptom of a bigger issue. Ignorance and elitism. They are ignorant of how science works. They also want to believe they won't die and that they are somehow special rather then just stuff trying to stay around long enough to make more stuff. They are rejecting reality for some dream land that doesn't exsist.

They believe in a soul. They find that normal. If I were to say "I believe all humans are just 1 time traveling alien who's doing this to pass to pass the time" or "The human body is actually a machine controlled by imps" I'd be locked up. You say Soul or Spirit instead, suddenly it's all fine and dandy and encouraged. They are wrong, it's that simple.

[Fira-Astrali]

It's also called bollocks for a reason. The supernatural belief is a symptom of a bigger issue. Ignorance and elitism. They are ignorant of how science works. They also want to believe they won't die and that they are somehow special rather then just stuff trying to stay around long enough to make more stuff. They are rejecting reality for some dream land that doesn't exsist.

How can you accuse the ppl who have said yes on here of being elitists who are trying to make humans more special than other creatures, when almost everyone who has come here and said yes has said that they believe all living things have a soul? That doesn't sound to elite to me.

[Redeemer]

That's a bold claim. As someone here knows, I get all sad and angry after a period of keeping fit. Beyond the innitial rush I don't think theres any lasting mental effect, esp for depression.

I think, as the studies show, that you're supposed to feel good during the exercise, and during the buzz that lasts after it. I don't know about there, but here, doctors can prescribe free gym membership to depression patients. It's to try and get them to go and do something, because it's a well known fact that physical activity releases hormones that have a positive effect on the brain. I always feel refreshed after a long, brisk walk, and it's because of those hormones. If you feel depressed afterwards, then it's not exactly to do with the exercise. And if you do feel depressed during exercise or the "after-buzz", then it's not actually because of the exercise. It's due to something else, maybe something that's bothering you, or a worry, or something else.

Just saying what I learned. :/

[Sabre]

How can you accuse the ppl who have said yes on here of being elitists who are trying to make humans more special than other creatures, when almost everyone who has come here and said yes has said that they believe all living things have a soul? That doesn't sound to elite to me.

It's elitism in the sence that you don't want to believe you are just stuff. You want to believe you are more then a rock, or a DVD case, ect. The idea that life is sacred. Your working backwards. You (rather, people like you) want life to be sacred, so you invent something to fill that role.

I think, as the studies show, that you're supposed to feel good during the exercise, and during the buzz that lasts after it. I don't know about there, but here, doctors can prescribe free gym membership to depression patients. It's to try and get them to go and do something, because it's a well known fact that physical activity releases hormones that have a positive effect on the brain. I always feel refreshed after a long, brisk walk, and it's because of those hormones. If you feel depressed afterwards, then it's not exactly to do with the exercise. And if you do feel depressed during exercise or the "after-buzz", then it's not actually because of the exercise. It's due to something else, maybe something that's bothering you, or a worry, or something else.

Just saying what I learned.

Right, but that's a short term high vs a lasting effect. I've not heard of Drs doing that, but I'll take your word for it. I'm not going to emo and QQ over the thread. However, it does kind of shoot down the idea that excersise treats depression.

[Redeemer]

Right, but that's a short term high vs a lasting effect. I've not heard of Drs doing that, but I'll take your word for it. I'm not going to emo and QQ over the thread. However, it does kind of shoot down the idea that excersise treats depression.

Yeah it's meant to be a short-term thing, just something to give you a little boost. It doesn't treat depression, in every text book I've read and from listening to lecturers, they say it helps "tackle the symptoms". So you're right, it is by no means a way of treating depression, but it helps you deal with it a little better. There was a scheme up here because depression rates got really bad, and doctors started prescribing gym activity to people and gave them free gym passes or discounts. I don't know if it worked, I just know it happened. The gyms and the NHS were working together on it, like a "Depression Awareness Week" thing or something.

[Robert Monroe]

It's also called bollocks for a reason. The supernatural belief is a symptom of a bigger issue. Ignorance and elitism. They are ignorant of how science works. They also want to believe they won't die and that they are somehow special rather then just stuff trying to stay around long enough to make more stuff. They are rejecting reality for some dream land that doesn't exsist.

They believe in a soul. They find that normal. If I were to say "I believe all humans are just 1 time traveling alien who's doing this to pass to pass the time" or "The human body is actually a machine controlled by imps" I'd be locked up. You say Soul or Spirit instead, suddenly it's all fine and dandy and encouraged. They are wrong, it's that simple.

Fun fact: I fvcking love science, am aiming for a medical degree, and find people who ignore science to be completely irritating. The beleif in the supernatural is NOT mutually exclusive of beleiving in the scientific. The scientific is there to explain how the world works, how things function, how what is became what is, and where it will go. The supernatural, the beleif and faith in what is supposedly beyond our scope of comprehension, isn't even in the same ball park. It is a form of philosophy. Your claims of time travel and imps are not. They are incredibly obvious low blows to people with metaphysical beleifs, and they are very much strawman. Its not elitism, although I can see how many with such beleifs can be elitist. They are, however, no more elitist that people like you who instead of sharing science with people in a peaceable and compatible way, just go "BOOOO YOU SO STUPID", beratting them over the head because they happen to have beleifs that YOU DON'T SHARE, that aren't even RELATED to science, thinking them to be some sort of backwards troglodyte simply on the basis of their beleifs.

People who are ignorant of how the world works (science) make me sick, but people that do what you do make me equally sick.

It's elitism in the sence that you don't want to believe you are just stuff. You want to believe you are more then a rock, or a DVD case, ect. The idea that life is sacred. Your working backwards. You (rather, people like you) want life to be sacred, so you invent something to fill that role.

Actually, elitism is this: Elitism is the belief or attitude that some individuals, who supposedly form an elite — a select group of people with, intellect, wealth, specialized training or experience, or other distinctive attributes — are those whose views on a matter are to be taken the most seriously or carry the most weight or those who view their own views as so; whose views and/or actions are most likely to be constructive to society as a whole; or whose extraordinary skills, abilities or wisdom render them especially fit to govern.

In other words, its thinking you are better than other people. It has NOTHING to do with what you want to beleive spiritually. It has NOTHING to do with the common held feelings on the sacrity of life. And while spritual people can be elitist (such as discriminitory religious groups), these beleifs in and of themself are not elitist in the slightest.