"De-Railing the Self-Esteem-Engine"

[Guest Julius Quasar]

"I can't stop iiiit!"

Seriously though, I'm talking about my disgust over American school's promotion of self esteem.

"The world does not care about your self esteem.  The world will expect you to accomplish something before you feel good about yourself." -Bill Gates

Totally agree!

I hear so many complaints in the job market from employers citing that some of these fresh out of [public] high school kids, and some college kids are so damn demanding, whiny, temperamental, and just plain arrogant.  They have an "entitlement mentality", no work ethic, crap social/personnel skills, and they can barely read, write, or do basic math with or without a calculator.  The college educated kids think the hard part's over, and that they automatically deserve a corner office, company car with a built in phone, and a 6 figure salary upon hiring, and they think that "flipping burgers is beneath their dignity".  Where did this come from?

Idiot school officials (not so much the teachers, I'm talking about administrations, district personnel, and board members), who want to promote undeserved "self esteem training".  Feel Good Legislation.  In the old days, teachers and school officials did the opposite.  They told a fraction of Gen Y, all of Gen X and older that "You are useless, you are scum, you will NEVER amount to anything, you are the lowest form of life in the universe!  What is your major malfunction, numb-nuts!?  Didn't your mommy ever show you enough attention as a child!?" etc.  When/if you graduated, they simply said "Good job!  You're no longer a turd!  You're a maggot!" or something like that.  Hell, they said things like that to me when I went to school, and they were right.

But today, it's the extreme opposite, and it makes me sick.

Self esteem is earned, not given.  Nothing will be handed to you on a silver platter in life, though for some people it will be, ultimately turning them into douche-bags.  Accomplishing hard work, difficult tasks, arduous projects, THAT is earning self esteem.  Earning a certificate, diploma, degree, card, etc.  Again, earned self esteem.

The thing is, the schools fail to see that when kids are release from the "feel good harbors" of [Public] High School, and set sail into the rough open sea of the Real World, they'll get wrecked in the first storm, squall, or large wave(s).  The schools do away with failing grades, and "abolish winners and losers".  Real life does not do this.  Life is a brutal competition, survival of the fittest.  It doesn't give do-overs, or even play fair/nice.  You have to go to work.  You have to be responsible, be on time, finish things you started.  Get your sh!t together.  Take care of yourself.  The RA won't do it for you, you won't have a meal plan, and instructions won't be spoon fed to you.

With more and more "Feel Good" Factories replacing our schools, it's no wonder our [American] education system is failing.  Fortunately, this isn't true for ALL schools in America nowadays, so there's still hope.

["User"]

It's hilarious when I hear from professors that the average intellect of the university/college student is getting lower year after year.  I blame the overly feminized education system for this tbh.  Back decades ago only the strong survived.  Nowadays the system is catered more towards women, hence the whole "Why do women do better than men in school?" debate which has several interesting points, one of which being that a higher % of women take easier degrees like art for example while men seem to go for the "big things" like being a doctor or having a masters in engineering.

I agree though that the education system isn't what it used to be, and in a bad way. :/

[DZComposer]

Well, the problem with this stance is that low self-esteem can have serious psychological effects on people.

Are we desensitizing people a bit, yes, but telling people they are worthless and expecting that to be motivation doesn't work with everyone. Studies have shown that optimism is healthier.

I'm not saying we need to abolish failing or eliminate competitive activities, but to say it's okay to berate people like you described I think goes too far.

Also, Bill Gates isn't an authority on anything. People say he's a "self-made man," when in reality he built himself up on the backs of others. He made his fortune by buying other people's ideas, and ruthlessly destroying those who wouldn't sell, sometimes outright stealing (see what happened with Java). Gates is a weasel, nothing more.

Now let's look at that quote: "The world does not care about your self esteem.  The world will expect you to accomplish something before you feel good about yourself."

It's a load of horse crap. Life isn't worth living if you can't feel good about yourself. And to say you have to "accomplish something" first is outright crazy. Life is about learning to be happy with yourself. You don't have to found a behemoth of a corporation to do that, and anyone who tells you that you have to follow that kind of reasoning is trying to pin you down in submission to a system designed to milk the worker of everything, including their happiness. Screw that.

[Guest Julius Quasar]

Hey, I don't follow everything Bill Gates says 100%, I agree with you that he's an asshole, but there's a grain of truth to that one thing he said. 

Hell, I was torn down and berated regularly, my parents still beat me down emotionally on a regular basis, and I'm still alive.  I failed in life, but that's my own fault, no one elses. 

Growing up, I was always told "The world does not care about your self esteem.  The world will expect you to accomplish something before you feel good about yourself." by teachers, my parents, all adults.  Hell, real life and the weight of the world crush nearly everyone, when it rains, it pours on everyone.  But, I've accomplished a few things in life, and feel great about those.  Overall I'm a colossal failure, and it tends to haunt my nightmares, and every waking moment of my life, but it really doesn't have any serious repercussions on me, AFAIK.  *eye twitches*

[Sabre]

Well, the problem with this stance is that low self-esteem can have serious psychological effects on people.

Are we desensitizing people a bit, yes, but telling people they are worthless and expecting that to be motivation doesn't work with everyone. Studies have shown that optimism is healthier.

I'm not saying we need to abolish failing or eliminate competitive activities, but to say it's okay to berate people like you described I think goes too far.

Also, Bill Gates isn't an authority on anything. People say he's a "self-made man," when in reality he built himself up on the backs of others. He made his fortune by buying other people's ideas, and ruthlessly destroying those who wouldn't sell, sometimes outright stealing (see what happened with Java). Gates is a weasel, nothing more.

Now let's look at that quote: "The world does not care about your self esteem.  The world will expect you to accomplish something before you feel good about yourself."

It's a load of horse crap. Life isn't worth living if you can't feel good about yourself. And to say you have to "accomplish something" first is outright crazy. Life is about learning to be happy with yourself. You don't have to found a behemoth of a corporation to do that, and anyone who tells you that you have to follow that kind of reasoning is trying to pin you down in submission to a system designed to milk the worker of everything, including their happiness. Screw that.

Your a bit harsh on gates there. Depending on what you read, he's either a perfect innocent flower child, or he ripped the heads of babies for fun. The truth is likely somewhere in the middle. People love an underdog story, but hate people who are successful. Gates is the ultimate of both which is why there are the extreme opinions on him I think.

Back on topic. I couldn't care about how the self esteem issue. You can think your the best man or the worst man, your still an average man. I draw the line at crap like "Everyone gets first place cos everyone is a winner". Although I have my own issues with sports days and the like.

About the burger flipping though. While I dont think those are beneith anyone. Indeed, any job I wouldn't want I respect in the sence that they mean I dont have to do it. That said, simple tasks like flipping burgers or washing dishes should be done by machines. How hard is it to have a robot that flips burger after x amount of time?

[Guest Julius Quasar]

Perhaps over  tearing kids down is bad, yes, but overly praising them where praise is not due is just as bad, probably worse if anything.  It's all a matter of...middle ground, I guess. =/

[Robert Monroe]

There is a difference between self-esteem and inflating egos. Self-esteem is merely the concept of self confidence so people don't you know, get fvkcing depressed and dropout, becoming useless slime under society's boot. I agree with Sabre, we don't need the "everyone is a winner" shit (mostly because it doesn't work), but there is no need to derail self-esteem :

Perhaps over  tearing kids down is bad, yes, but overly praising them where praise is not due is just as bad, probably worse if anything.  It's all a matter of...middle ground, I guess. =/

Moderation is key to most everything.

[Guest Julius Quasar]

There is a difference between self-esteem and inflating egos. Self-esteem is merely the concept of self confidence so people don't you know, get fvkcing depressed and dropout, becoming useless slime under society's boot. I agree with Sabre, we don't need the "everyone is a winner" shit (mostly because it doesn't work), but there is no need to derail self-esteem :

Moderation is key to most everything.

That's true....

[Robert Monroe]

On the note of public shools, American children aren't being useless when they come out of them because of "egos being shattered", they're being useless becase they aren't fvkcing learning anything, because the federal government seems to think that appealing to the lowest common denominator is the way to go. Take for example, math. Math homework often involved 20+ problems that can take an hour long each to do (higher algebras is what I'm getting at here). This leads to burnout, and it does NOT improve learning because 1: the children that DO "get it" will be wasting their time and often skip half the problems, getting low grades, or they will sacrifice study time for other things to get the grade, and 2: the children that DON'T get it are just wasting their time doing 20 hours of problems that are all wrong anyway. Repitition does NOT work in this situtation, and does not work in many education situations, but that is how the federal system thinks its the way to go. The other problem is most schoolwork is mean for scholars. Shit is boring, especialyl history, which is America's weakest subject next to math. Textbooks written by historians for historians get nowhere fast. Schools need to order better ciriculum, and textmakers need to realize the faults in thier publications. You look at America's strongest subject, and what is it? Science. Why? Because it deals with solid facts, is relevant to modern living, doesn't dick around, and is engaging. Other subjects need to follw its example... and maybe get the school more localized power, away from the federal system. Its far too vast to be under the control of the federal government to be utilized efficiently.

[Guest Julius Quasar]

That's a very good point.