National 'Burn a Quran Day'

[Xortberg]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100907/ap_on_re_us/quran_burning

What do you think? Personally, I believe he has the right to, but like the article says, going through with this would possibly bring about a new wave of hate from radical Muslims. Not to mention, it's pretty much retarded and goes against everything the Bible teaches - tolerance, love, free will, all that jazz.

Also, it's pretty refreshing, I think, to actually see some of our politicians taking a stand against the anti-Muslim belief that's been pretty prevalent for a while in our country instead of just catering to the popular belief in the hopes of getting reelected.

[Guest FoXXX]

I agree with you, Xort. And I heard something about this on the radio today :O

["User"]

The leader of that church has stated he will proceed with the burning regardless of death threats and all that.  It's obviously not a smart move on his part but it's ridiculous in the muslim world how they all react to their book being burned or Mohammad being put into cartoons. I mean....seriously?  I know the Koran is important to them but it's just retarded how they have to go around killing people left right and center because a Danish cartoonish draws their prophet. 

Overreacting much?!  I have never understand these super extreme reactions, and it's not just by a tiny tiny minority..you had dozens of Islamic countries with dozens of riots in each - killing people who weren't even involved....all over Mohammad in cartoons. >_>

The funny thing is about this is that Mohammad has been depicted in paintings, art, etc over most of the last 1400 years or so by MUSLIMS, it's only in the last few hundred or so years where such depictions are considered "illegal".  I know the reasons why they are illegal, but the Koran says nothing about this per se.

[Xortberg]

The leader of that church has stated he will proceed with the burning regardless of death threats and all that.  It's obviously not a smart move on his part but it's ridiculous in the muslim world how they all react to their book being burned or Mohammad being put into cartoons. I mean....seriously?  I know the Koran is important to them but it's just retarded how they have to go around killing people left right and center because a Danish cartoonish draws their prophet. 

Overreacting much?!  I have never understand these super extreme reactions, and it's not just by a tiny tiny minority..you had dozens of Islamic countries with dozens of riots in each - killing people who weren't even involved....all over the burning of a book.  >_>

Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying the Muslims aren't at fault. If they freak out and overreact, they're really just as much at fault as he is. He's pretty much just trollin'. Still, you've also got to consider the fact that not only is it a stupid move on his part, it doesn't even coincide with the teachings of the Bible. For example:

If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.

1st John, 4:20

This verse is pretty much saying to love everyone, no matter what. It's what Jesus supposedly taught, and this guy says he's a 'warrior of God' or some shit like that. He's giving Christians a bad rep by doing this in some peoples' eyes.

["User"]

Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying the Muslims aren't at fault. If they freak out and overreact, they're really just as much at fault as he is. He's pretty much just trollin'. Still, you've also got to consider the fact that not only is it a stupid move on his part, it doesn't even coincide with the teachings of the Bible. For example:

This verse is pretty much saying to love everyone, no matter what. It's what Jesus supposedly taught, and this guy says he's a 'warrior of God' or some shit like that. He's giving Christians a bad rep by doing this in some peoples' eyes.

That goes without saying.  People like him give Christianity a bad rap and what he's doing is wrong.  However the reason why the U.S. government gets all up in arms about this is because they have seen in the past what Muslims in other countries will do when stuff like this happens and are scared shitless as a result.  The last thing Americans need is their troops suffering or getting death threats because of the actions of one lone rebel.

[Vy'drach]

The leader of that church has stated he will proceed with the burning regardless of death threats and all that.  It's obviously not a smart move on his part but it's ridiculous in the muslim world how they all react to their book being burned or Mohammad being put into cartoons. I mean....seriously?  I know the Koran is important to them but it's just retarded how they have to go around killing people left right and center because a Danish cartoonish draws their prophet. 

Overreacting much?!  I have never understand these super extreme reactions, and it's not just by a tiny tiny minority..you had dozens of Islamic countries with dozens of riots in each - killing people who weren't even involved....all over Mohammad in cartoons. >_>

The funny thing is about this is that Mohammad has been depicted in paintings, art, etc over most of the last 1400 years or so by MUSLIMS, it's only in the last few hundred or so years where such depictions are considered "illegal".  I know the reasons why the are illegal, but the Koran says nothing about this per se.

Yes, because things like the L.A. Riots over here and such are vastly different. Difference is though that it is vilified when they do it, but when several black men pull a white guy out of a truck and beat him to death simply for being white, it isn't considered a hate crime and they get a mere slap on the wrist. Or the people who riot over soccer games.

Christians have slaughtered countless of people over their religion, and have vilified many religions. Lucifer was actually the name of the sun for one religion, and the church made it synonymous with the devil, essentially saying these people, who are just sun worshipers, are actually Satanic devil worshipers. When some over-zealous Muslims have an adverse reaction to their religion being mocked, or in this case, slandered, accused, and vilified, people just think, "They're silly" or, "They're going too far."

To me, this "Burn a Koran" day is nothing but a gathering for stupid, ignorant people to be stupid and ignorant, and to scapegoat others.

[Sabre]

Yes, because things like the L.A. Riots over here and such are vastly different. Difference is though that it is vilified when they do it, but when several black men pull a white guy out of a truck and beat him to death simply for being white, it isn't considered a hate crime and they get a mere slap on the wrist. Or the people who riot over soccer games.

Christians have slaughtered countless of people over their religion, and have vilified many religions. Lucifer was actually the name of the sun for one religion, and the church made it synonymous with the devil, essentially saying these people, who are just sun worshipers, are actually Satanic devil worshipers. When some over-zealous Muslims have an adverse reaction to their religion being mocked, or in this case, slandered, accused, and vilified, people just think, "They're silly" or, "They're going too far."

To me, this "Burn a Koran" day is nothing but a gathering for stupid, ignorant people to be stupid and ignorant, and to scapegoat others.

Oh snap, beat me to it. Mine was-

Christianity can't really do much worse than it is already. This is basicly a fight between 2 idiots. No reason to get involved.

[King of the Shrooms]

I think a certain preacher is neglecting his daily bible reading. it is people like him that get the U.S. in trouble in the first place.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100907/ap_on_re_us/quran_burning

Also, it's pretty refreshing, I think, to actually see some of our politicians taking a stand against the anti-Muslim belief that's been pretty prevalent for a while in our country instead of just catering to the popular belief in the hopes of getting reelected.

damn strait!!

[Xortberg]

Oh snap, beat me to it. Mine was-

Christianity can't really do much worse than it is already. This is basicly a fight between 2 idiots. No reason to get involved.

2 idiots? More like two large groups of idiots, with one group trying to tell them to calm the hell down. And trust me: Christianity could do much worse.

Yes, because things like the L.A. Riots over here and such are vastly different. Difference is though that it is vilified when they do it, but when several black men pull a white guy out of a truck and beat him to death simply for being white, it isn't considered a hate crime and they get a mere slap on the wrist. Or the people who riot over soccer games.

Christians have slaughtered countless of people over their religion, and have vilified many religions. Lucifer was actually the name of the sun for one religion, and the church made it synonymous with the devil, essentially saying these people, who are just sun worshipers, are actually Satanic devil worshipers. When some over-zealous Muslims have an adverse reaction to their religion being mocked, or in this case, slandered, accused, and vilified, people just think, "They're silly" or, "They're going too far."

To me, this "Burn a Koran" day is nothing but a gathering for stupid, ignorant people to be stupid and ignorant, and to scapegoat others.

Of course it's a gathering for ignorance, but I'm a bit lost on the rest of your points. It might just be my brain being stupid right now, but I can't make heads or tails of what you're trying to say  :lol:

[Vy'drach]

Of course it's a gathering for ignorance, but I'm a bit lost on the rest of your points. It might just be my brain being stupid right now, but I can't make heads or tails of what you're trying to say 

Just that people riot for stupid reasons, but that when a Muslim does it for a reason that makes a wee bit more sense than the others, it is considered exponentially worse.

Also, that over-reacting about religion isn't a Muslim thing, just that if a Christian or a Jew does it, it is considered no where near as bad, if considered bad at all.

[Xortberg]

Gotcha. Thanks, it makes sense now that I'm reading with that in mind.

[Vy'drach]

Gotcha. Thanks, it makes sense now that I'm reading with that in mind.

No problem. I'm not usually good at explaining things, especially politics or religions. I think it's how my mind works, I associate and file things by mental images, not words.

[Xortberg]

Personally, I think it'd be freakin' hilarious if some people marched up when he was burning them and threw some Bibles onto the fire. I have no problem with the Bible itself, but it would be a beautiful counter-protest.

[Sabre]

Only all of them getting struck by lightning would be sweeter.

[Xortberg]

Only all of them getting struck by lightning would be sweeter.

XD

Nah, I don't want anyone getting hurt for professing their beliefs. That's exactly why I think this whole mess is stupid in the first place.

[Vy'drach]

Personally, I think it'd be freakin' hilarious if some people marched up when he was burning them and threw some Bibles onto the fire. I have no problem with the Bible itself, but it would be a beautiful counter-protest.

Not going to lie, that would make my day.

Rather reminds me of this quote., which I love asking over-zealous Christians.

"Do you think when Jesus comes back he wants to see another fucking cross?"

[King of the Shrooms]

Personally, I think it'd be freakin' hilarious if some people marched up when he was burning them and threw some Bibles onto the fire. I have no problem with the Bible itself, but it would be a beautiful counter-protest.

I, too, think this would be completely awesome if it happened!! we can all hope it does  :)

[Sabre]

XD

Nah, I don't want anyone getting hurt for professing their beliefs. That's exactly why I think this whole mess is stupid in the first place.

It's religion, stupid is what they do. They aren't all bad it but, well, listen to this for a funny way of getting my opinion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tsgmuD6eDg

[Xortberg]

It's religion, stupid is what they do. They aren't all bad it but, well, listen to this for a funny way of getting my opinion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tsgmuD6eDg

Didn't watch the whole video, but yeah, seems like he's pretty spot on with plenty of his points. Still, religion itself isn't a bad concept, I don't think. It's just the people, like this preacher and the people who are overreacting and sending death threats, who make it bad.

[King of the Shrooms]

A classic case of when you should hate the player, not the game!

[Sabre]

Didn't watch the whole video, but yeah, seems like he's pretty spot on with plenty of his points. Still, religion itself isn't a bad concept, I don't think. It's just the people, like this preacher and the people who are overreacting and sending death threats, who make it bad.

At the end he basicly makes the point that most religous people are reasonable, but they are the ones who give power to the crazy people.

[Xortberg]

It also doesn't help that, as Robert and I discussed in the 'Mosques protest' thread, the crazy/stupid ones tend to be the loudest and get the most attention. People are far too eager to jump on an isolated case and try to make them out to be the majority. This guy, along with Westboro, have just been dragging Christianity through the mud lately, despite the fact that each one is a case involving a small group of people and pretty much the entire 'reasonable' portion of the country is giving them hell for it.

["User"]

Christians have slaughtered countless of people over their religion, and have vilified many religions. Lucifer was actually the name of the sun for one religion, and the church made it synonymous with the devil, essentially saying these people, who are just sun worshipers, are actually Satanic devil worshipers. When some over-zealous Muslims have an adverse reaction to their religion being mocked, or in this case, slandered, accused, and vilified, people just think, "They're silly" or, "They're going too far."

So, by your logic, 700 years ago if a country who CLAIMED to be mainly Christian did many evil things that the bible would clearly condemn (like killing others who weren't Christian) and clearly showed that they WEREN'T Christian at all by their actions then it's okay to stereotype the entire religion as a whole?  I'd rather call those individuals not true followers of Christ and not label all of Christianity as "evil" because it's one thing to say your Christian (anyone can do that) but actions speak louder then words. 

You know...the funny thing about this is that hundreds of years ago when this was happening the people who were actually true Christians were the ones being persecuted because they were labeled as heretics by people who called themselves Christian but their actions no where really indicated it.  It's similar to how many Islamic countries see America as "Christian" but the majority of what people are into over here (violence movies, porn, etc) is anything but.  Lots of misinterpreting here.

Christianity can't really do much worse than it is already. This is basicly a fight between 2 idiots. No reason to get involved.

Gotta love how Christianity and other religions as a whole called bad and evil due to the actions of individuals (even as majority) who clearly AREN'T following Christian or other religious principles.

Of course, this is an argument that could go on for eternity and it all depends on which way you look at it (either side can be considered bias of course)

And I'm going to have to agree with pretty much everything Xort has said in his last few posts.

[Xortberg]

So, by your logic, 700 years ago if a country who CLAIMED to be mainly Christian did many evil things that the bible would clearly condemn (like killing others who weren't Christian) and clearly showed that they WEREN'T Christian at all by their actions then it's okay to stereotype the entire religion as a whole?  I'd rather call those individuals not true followers of Christ and not label all of Christianity as "evil" because it's one thing to say your Christian (anyone can do that) but actions speak louder then words. 

You know...the funny thing about this is that hundreds of years ago when this was happening the people who were actually true Christians were the ones being persecuted because they were labeled as heretics by people who called themselves Christian but their actions no where really indicated it.  It's similar to how many Islamic countries see America as "Christian" but the majority of what people are into over here (violence movies, porn, etc) is anything but.  Lots of misinterpreting here.

That's basically what we're getting at here. Religions/groups of people get shit for things that people should have gotten over a long time ago because of a few radical groups. Jews still get shit for killing Jesus. Muslims still get shit for 9/11. Christians are gonna be next, with the WBC and this ignorant f***. To be fair, though, the Catholic Church was pretty brutal at times.

Gotta love how Christianity and other religions as a whole called bad and evil due to the actions of individuals (even as majority) who clearly AREN'T following Christian or other religious principles.

Of course, this is an argument that could go on for eternity and it all depends on which way you look at it (either side can be considered bias of course)

And I'm going to have to agree with pretty much everything Xort has said in his last few posts.

Preaching to the choir, bro. (Lol, cwutididthar?)

["User"]

That's basically what we're getting at here. Religions/groups of people get shit for things that people should have gotten over a long time ago because of a few radical groups. Jews still get shit for killing Jesus. Muslims still get shit for 9/11. Christians are gonna be next, with the WBC and this ignorant f***. To be fair, though, the Catholic Church was pretty brutal at times.

Yeah I know what you guys were getting at, I just have an addictive habit of playing devil's advocate a lot of the time in debates like this - especially in politics.  Sometimes I'm serious, sometimes I'm not, but on this particular forum I've been pretty sincere most of the time. 

As for this entire Burn a Quran Day...it's completely ridiculous.  But like with a lot of issues right now concerning politics/religion/etc and with midterm elections coming up a matter like this will more then likely fade to black as yet another big blown out of proportion issue comes into the forefront.