Team Failure 2

[Fox-Shot]

Now, I'm not sure if anyone else truly hates the update to Team Fortress 2, but I think they lost sight of the concept of Team Fortress 2, especially since the first Team Fortress was entirely free (Other than owning Quake.)

Sorry if I seem a bit too ranty, but so many people seemed to also hate the update, that I figured there'd be some agreement.  Feel free to lock if it's bad or anything.

[Milkyway64]

In what ways does it fail? Mann-conomy can be ignored entirely and new weapons/hats have been around forever now. The biggest con I see is forums now being a trade-fest.

[Robert Monroe]

Now, I'm not sure if anyone else truly hates the update to Team Fortress 2, but I think they lost sight of the concept of Team Fortress 2, especially since the first Team Fortress was entirely free (Other than owning Quake.)

Sorry if I seem a bit too ranty, but so many people seemed to also hate the update, that I figured there'd be some agreement.  Feel free to lock if it's bad or anything.

HURR I HAVE THE OPTION TO BUY THINGS, TEAM FORTRESS 2 IS RUINED FOREVER!!!!

The sight of the game is creating a continuously evolving, fun to play, in depth user friendly team based FPS game. Valve has given us THREE YEARS of FREE UPDATES, and everything in THIS update is STILL free, but has an OPTION to be purchasable, an option that can be TOTALLY IGNORED. It is a little sideway for Valve to earn some keep for all the hard work they've committed to a great game that has one of the bitchiest, whinest, most terrible unpleasable ungrateful fanbases in EXISTENCE, so you shut your whore mouth.

[Vulvokunvrii]

How do hate said game? You gotta love the SPy, and the Heavy! :D

[Fox-Shot]

Option? Every gun I've ever gotten now has the "Vintage" tag on it. That means you can't get them anymore.  Technically, you can ignore the Paid-for cash in Combat Arms, but you'll notice how you keep getting killed by a golden AK-47, I've seen it really.  I'm just saying that the drop system was already a problem, causing idling and losing sight of the actual idea of Team Fortress, and now it's gotten even further.  Not everyone is loaded, and no matter how much you try to dispel the rumor, paid for guns will always seem considerably more powerful.  I think that it should use in-game currency, you get a dollar for every dominate, revenge, or game win, and instead of 5 dollars, a gun will cost 100.  It's just so odd for something Valve did.  I think that it should of stayed to getting them the old way, instead of giving people who are rich the ability to get straight to victory. 

And here's another thing, I didn't bash people who liked the system or defended it, but merely the system itself, so why do I get bashed?

[Milkyway64]

Only you're wrong. There is nothing, NOTHING that cannot be obtained for free in game. Paid for weapons only get new players caught up faster, and vintage weapons mean that the weapon was around pre-update. THERE IS NO GAMEPLAY CHANGE TO THEM, it just means that they are a bit more valuable in trades.

Again, it's an OPTION, and the drop system still gets you anything money would. Saying that the store bought weapons are more powerful is wrong, because they are not. It's just you bitching.

[Xortberg]

Option? Every gun I've ever gotten now has the "Vintage" tag on it. That means you can't get them anymore.  Technically, you can ignore the Paid-for cash in Combat Arms, but you'll notice how you keep getting killed by a golden AK-47, I've seen it really.  I'm just saying that the drop system was already a problem, causing idling and losing sight of the actual idea of Team Fortress, and now it's gotten even further.  Not everyone is loaded, and no matter how much you try to dispel the rumor, paid for guns will always seem considerably more powerful.  I think that it should use in-game currency, you get a dollar for every dominate, revenge, or game win, and instead of 5 dollars, a gun will cost 100.  It's just so odd for something Valve did.  I think that it should of stayed to getting them the old way, instead of giving people who are rich the ability to get straight to victory. 

And here's another thing, I didn't bash people who liked the system or defended it, but merely the system itself, so why do I get bashed?

The guns are all still obtainable. The "Vintage" tag simply means it was acquired before the update. And TF2 isn't Combat Arms. There are no weapons that can't be found or crafted, and buying them is actually detrimental in a sense: you can't use them for crafting. The only thing you have to buy is the Key to the Mann Co. Supply Crates.

[Milkyway64]

The only thing you have to buy is the Key to the Mann Co. Supply Crates.

And even then, just for now. Keys will have their own blueprint.

[Robert Monroe]

Option? Every gun I've ever gotten now has the "Vintage" tag on it. That means you can't get them anymore.  Technically, you can ignore the Paid-for cash in Combat Arms, but you'll notice how you keep getting killed by a golden AK-47, I've seen it really.  I'm just saying that the drop system was already a problem, causing idling and losing sight of the actual idea of Team Fortress, and now it's gotten even further.  Not everyone is loaded, and no matter how much you try to dispel the rumor, paid for guns will always seem considerably more powerful.  I think that it should use in-game currency, you get a dollar for every dominate, revenge, or game win, and instead of 5 dollars, a gun will cost 100.  It's just so odd for something Valve did.  I think that it should of stayed to getting them the old way, instead of giving people who are rich the ability to get straight to victory. 

And here's another thing, I didn't bash people who liked the system or defended it, but merely the system itself, so why do I get bashed?

Vintage refers to items you got from before the update with drops and acheivements. They have no real value over sentimental collector's value. You can't buy them, you can't craft them, you can't get them drop drops. It is an entirely superflorous addition of one word to make pre-trade collectors feel accomplished. They have no effect on the game.

The difference between a golden AK and TF2's shop is you can GET THE ITEMS IN TF2 FOR FREE. Every. single. Polycount weapon. Has. A. blueprint. At current only the Vita-Saw and GRU lack blueprints, but they can stil be gotten from item drops. The paid for guns are -not- "better". They are sidegrades (except maybe the Pyro's Degreaser), with distinct advantages and disadvantages. The store is for lazy people who can't be bothered to craft items and have deep pockets, and really only the new stuff is expensive because as Valve themselves said: its to prevent everyone from buying them immedeatly and making them stupidly common really fast. They are not pay2win. The kit "buffs" are severely limiting in many degrees: Scout loses his pistol and his Scattergun, and can't bring the Sandman. Sniper can't get headshots at the cost of being headshot proof, which is only good in Sniper duels anyway, and he can't combine that with Jarate because he needs the Danger Shield. Pyro you could argue is a straight upgrade, but the Powerjack means he can't use the Degreaser for axtinguishing, and really Pyro has been gimped so hard anyway he could -use- a straight upgrade. Soldier gains 20% sentry resistence, but he can only shoot 3 rockets at a time and has no shotgun. These are what we call ALTERNATE STRATEGIES. You trade in something familiar for something new and DIFFERENT. You have to make a CHOICE when you decide you want a kit buff, and that choice is seriously limiting your strategic ability by having to carry very specific items around. Which I will say again: YOU DON'T -HAVE- TO BUY. I got a Degreaser from a drop today even.

And I attack your little cryfest over the Mann Co Store because you're just another whiner whose saying WAAAAH PAY2WIN when that is not even the case. At current the only real flaw with the store is that you need to use the -hats- to get the kitbuffs, which makes them more than an aesthetic, which Robin Walker has already addressed and is planning to fix in an upcoming patch.

[Fox-Shot]

I'm not exactly getting at the power, that did seem wrong, and while yes, you can still get everything through drops and crafts, I'd like to point out that to describe it, you'd either need the word "idle" or the phrase "taking a long time".  I really don't mind, beings I don't play Team Fortress 2 all that much, but think about it, if the store gets a lot of business, we can't rely that you can craft every weapon or find it from drops, greediness can grow, I trust Valve that they won't, but don't keep it all as a concrete statement.

[Robert Monroe]

I'm not exactly getting at the power, that did seem wrong, and while yes, you can still get everything through drops and crafts, I'd like to point out that to describe it, you'd either need the word "idle" or the phrase "taking a long time".  I really don't mind, beings I don't play Team Fortress 2 all that much, but think about it, if the store gets a lot of business, we can't rely that you can craft every weapon or find it from drops, greediness can grow, I trust Valve that they won't, but don't keep it all as a concrete statement.

Items offer alternative ways to play classes. You don't need them to play, at all, and if you don't play often anyway its probably for the best because you learn to play each class first with their standard items. Thats why theres acheivement milestones.

[Milkyway64]

I'm not exactly getting at the power, that did seem wrong, and while yes, you can still get everything through drops and crafts, I'd like to point out that to describe it, you'd either need the word "idle" or the phrase "taking a long time".  I really don't mind, beings I don't play Team Fortress 2 all that much, but think about it, if the store gets a lot of business, we can't rely that you can craft every weapon or find it from drops, greediness can grow, I trust Valve that they won't, but don't keep it all as a concrete statement.

Items drop at 8 per week, and if you don't get what you want, it's easy to craft it. Most items have their own blueprint, and those that don't can be achievement grinded or random crafted (slot token + class token + scrap)

If you don't have the time for it, then buy them. That's the point of the store. If you don't have the money, then work toward them like a man.

[Fox-Shot]

Items offer alternative ways to play classes. You don't need them to play, at all, and if you don't play often anyway its probably for the best because you learn to play each class first with their standard items. Thats why theres acheivement milestones.

Indeed, I've actually gotten a preference for the Backburner compared to the Default Flamethrower, go ahead and get at me because of the no airblast, DZ

Items drop at 8 per week, and if you don't get what you want, it's easy to craft it. Most items have their own blueprint, and those that don't can be achievement grinded or random crafted (slot token + class token + scrap)

If you don't have the time for it, then buy them. That's the point of the store. If you don't have the money, then work toward them like a man.

Thanks for the craft tips there, and I enjoyed getting the +200 achievements, I don't have to be awesome to feel like I achieved something.  Also, I liked the feeling of naturally getting them from playing, the store just seemed to mess with the flow of that concept, and I just didn't agree with it, I think there are only about 3 items that actually seem overpowered or better (Demo's Sword is a huge annoyance when you don't see it coming).  Honestly, I had overreacted when I first saw the update and should have waited a while before posting about it, and I just am not a fan of buying if you've payed for the game already, regardless of alternate ways to obtain stuff.  The other thing is that I've seen games grow to ridiculous levels of payments that started with one little thing you could buy. (Tetris Friends, OMGPOP, Fantasy Online, Earth Eternal)

[Milkyway64]

Indeed, I've actually gotten a preference for the Backburner compared to the Default Flamethrower, go ahead and get at me because of the no airblast, DZ

Hey, I love and am actually very effective with the FaN so high level elitists can shove it. =P

[Sabre]

For what it's worth Im not a fan of the system either. As with DZ, theres always the claim of using the wrong item, and basicly the whole system adds a layer of pain in the backside that just makes casual players keep away from the game. That said, it does add depth and means that if I do go back it will be a totally different game. CoD Black Ops seems to have a cool system for this where you choose what order you unlock stuff, and rainbow 6 also had a cool system where you would get stuff based on your play style. eg. Using alot of snipers would get you sniper rifles quicker.

[Fox-Shot]

For what it's worth Im not a fan of the system either. As with DZ, theres always the claim of using the wrong item, and basicly the whole system adds a layer of pain in the backside that just makes casual players keep away from the game. That said, it does add depth and means that if I do go back it will be a totally different game. CoD Black Ops seems to have a cool system for this where you choose what order you unlock stuff, and rainbow 6 also had a cool system where you would get stuff based on your play style. eg. Using alot of snipers would get you sniper rifles quicker.

An interesting store item would be packs of metal and other random things, where you get a better value if you know the crafting recipes.  It would add some interest and focus on crafting. 

Also, I honestly was able to play Modern Warfare 2 against my friend for a total of like 2 hours, and have unlocked god knows how many perks and challenges.  Black Ops has a good idea, seeing as I don't like the default machine gun, though I did like the 50Cal. :D