Greatist millitary unit of all (pregun powder) time

[Guest SCoatiH]

Not..... really. At all. There's been tons of national identity before that.

Yo, but da reason Joan mention'd was "people of France, unite agains the English opressors!".

Imma means, that was the first time it was fairly succesful.

[Thu'um]

I'm also going to support Skander beg. He fought of a good number of Ottaman armys numbering in the 100,000s and with only a force of 9500

[LoneWolf]

NINJAS!  :D

[Robert Monroe]

People, the ninja were not a military unit. :|

[LoneWolf]

People, the ninja were not a military unit.

Shhhh...that's classified.

[Thu'um]

No one has responded to my comment so be the rules of forum I am declared the winner.

[The Shaper]

I'm also going to support Skander beg. He fought of a good number of Ottaman armys numbering in the 100,000s and with only a force of 9500

Well this can be debated considering they did defend against a larger force, but they didn't create an empire, also the Spartans at Thermopylae fought a larger force with less units. (There responded.) 

[Thu'um]

Well, we arn't measuring strength by size of empire , and a majority of the persian for was untrained.

[The Shaper]

Well, we arn't measuring strength by size of empire

That's basically what everyone has been doing in this topic so far.  :oops:

[King of the Shrooms]

i love the great roman empire (i said it before but i thought i should say it again)

[Guest SCoatiH]

I'm also going to support Skander beg. He fought of a good number of Ottaman armys numbering in the 100,000s and with only a force of 9500

Then we can compare that to a similar Athean situation.

Athens had to fight an invading Persian force, with like 5000 men against a near-the-doub'e number o' men.

The atheneans requested aid from Sparta, but they said they wouldn't come inmediately.

After like three days of siege, the persians were defeated.

[ballisticwaffles]

I would think thed Elephant would have been the greatest. MAssive size, thick hides, a bunch of shooting bowman at the top, the thing would have been hellish to see, much less fight 70-80 of them with swords.

[The Shaper]

I would think thed Elephant would have been the greatest. MAssive size, thick hides, a bunch of shooting bowman at the top, the thing would have been hellish to see, much less fight 70-80 of them with swords.

Yes the war elephants were a force to be reckoned with, but their weakness was the eye. Get a spear in it then the elephant is going down. Another weakness was it was hard to maneuver around small passes and could sometimes be hard to manage.

[ballisticwaffles]

Yes the war elephants were a force to be reckoned with, but their weakness was the eye. Get a spear in it then the elephant is going down. Another weakness was it was hard to maneuver around small passes and could sometimes be hard to manage.

Yes their weakness is the eye, just like almost all the soldiers we have debated so far. And yes, the were hard to manage, another psycological effect that plays havoc with your enemies. Who knows when that elephant would veer off and step on you? And why would you use an elephant in a small pass?

[The Shaper]

Yes their weakness is the eye, just like almost all the soldiers we have debated so far. And yes, the were hard to manage, another psycological effect that plays havoc with your enemies. Who knows when that elephant would veer off and step on you? And why would you use an elephant in a small pass?

Well not to fight in a small pass, but maybe for transportation around a cliff, it would be a good spot to ambush the elephant.

[ballisticwaffles]

Well not to fight in a small pass, but maybe for transportation around a cliff, it would be a good spot to ambush the elephant.

Ah i see. Yes, they were bulky pondering beasts and falling off the ledge of a cliff is a serious issue, but a compentent commander would not even think of putting his elephants at risk, one so unnecisary too.

[The Shaper]

Ah i see. Yes, they were bulky pondering beasts and falling off the ledge of a cliff is a serious issue, but a compentent commander would not even think of putting his elephants at risk, one so unnecisary too.

Well I'll give you that one, but so to speak there was a large force of invaders on the other side of a mountain and the only way to defeat them was to send in a force of large elephants and the only way to get past the mountain was past a tight cliff, then they could be ambushed. But I suppose in theory that a escort group could walk in front of the elephants to keep them safe, also the odds of all of that happening in the same place are exceptionally small as well.

[ballisticwaffles]

Well I'll give you that one, but so to speak there was a large force of invaders on the other side of a mountain and the only way to defeat them was to send in a force of large elephants and the only way to get past the mountain was past a tight cliff, then they could be ambushed. But I suppose in theory that a escort group could walk in front of the elephants to keep them safe, also the odds of all of that happening in the same place are exceptionally small as well.

THat is not the point. The point is we are not discussing tactics we are discussing units. If we were discussing tactics, i would have stayed away from the elephant. But we are not. We are dicussing individual units and their power. So my answer is, the elephant.

[The Shaper]

THat is not the point. The point is we are not discussing tactics we are discussing units. If we were discussing tactics, i would have stayed away from the elephant. But we are not. We are dicussing individual units and their power. So my answer is, the elephant.

Then you picked a good choice.

[Guest SCoatiH]

For the sake of it, I'll add that Haniball and his army crossed THE ALPS on elepanths.

[The Shaper]

For the sake of it, I'll add that Haniball and his army crossed THE ALPS on elepanths.

I already knew that my good man, but I was talking about something else, besides it's already been resolved.

[Guest SCoatiH]

I already knew that my good man, but I was talking about something else, besides it's already been resolved.

No, I meant... That if we are speaking of Elephants on large scal', then Hannibal's force was indeed the best.

Strange'y, he never attacked Rome...

[ballisticwaffles]

No, I meant... That if we are speaking of Elephants on large scal', then Hannibal's force was indeed the best.

Strange'y, he never attacked Rome...

Its becuase a suspected seige on rome would have lasted an incredably long time. ANd the citzens of rome would have fought to the last child. And he lacked seige weapons to even force his assertions. Hanniabl could invade rome, but he could not conquer it.

[Guest SCoatiH]

Its becuase a suspected seige on rome would have lasted an incredably long time. ANd the citzens of rome would have fought to the last child. And he lacked seige weapons to even force his assertions. Hanniabl could invade rome, but he could not conquer it.

But at the time the Roman army was at the south, "Sicily". The city was virtually undefended, and Hanibal's units were fully-trained soldiers, and the most Rome could muster would be last-minute conscripts.

[The Shaper]

But at the time the Roman army was at the south, "Sicily". The city was virtually undefended, and Hanibal's units were fully-trained soldiers, and the most Rome could muster would be last-minute conscripts.

It still wouldn't make a difference, the Romans would still be able to defeat them, or at least defend against them until the Roman army could arrive. That being said one of the reasons the Roman empire fell is because of how hard it was to defend.